Marriage visa based on monthly income

[nailbrains8]

Has anyone applied for a marriage visa based off of income?

 

I can meet both the income requirements or the 400K in the bank but I would rather not transfer that amount into my Thai bank account.

 

In order to qualify based on income will I need to get this verified by anyone or can I just show my Bangkok bank statements which show over the required amount being transferred in monthly for over a year?

 

 

[UKresonant]

Depends on your nationality, and what your service your Embassy can provide perhaps.

[billd766]

I did it in August of this year in Khampaeng Phet, and yes, it is possible. I can only speak of my experience at 1 Immigration Office.

 

You seem to have passed the first hurdle in having a record of monthly income in excess of the target for a year.

 

There are many more steps to go especially for the first time.

 

I have attached a tick box from my experience.

 

As you are married can I ask if you were married in Thailand or outside? The reason is if you married else where they require an official translation in Thai and it has to be certified by the Thai embassy in the country you married in. Also you need this translated document to be registered in the amphur where you live, usually by your wife as it is easier on the staff. You will need a Kor Ror 2 certifying that you are married and that it is registered in Thailand. For the visa application itself you will need a Kor Ror 22 to prove that you are still married.

 

Whilst the list is not endless I sometimes felt that it was.

 

Depending on the provincial IO office you use they may have to send a copy to the regional office so you need to make 2 copies of everything.

 

The best advice I can give you at this point is to go with your wife to the IO office you will be using and get her to ask the IO exactly  what they want and if it is anything like KPP they will ask for more later.

 

Make that your initial visit then with just less than a month to go make your first application and learn what they really want for the second try. If you get rejected the first time you shouldn't be charged 1,900 baht and you will know what they want.

 

If you need more information I will do what I can but ubonjoe on the visa Q&A knows far more than any other TVF poster.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Tick box for marriage extension 2019 v02.xlsx

[nailbrains8]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

I did it in August of this year in Khampaeng Phet, and yes, it is possible. I can only speak of my experience at 1 Immigration Office.

 

You seem to have passed the first hurdle in having a record of monthly income in excess of the target for a year.

 

There are many more steps to go especially for the first time.

 

I have attached a tick box from my experience.

 

As you are married can I ask if you were married in Thailand or outside? The reason is if you married else where they require an official translation in Thai and it has to be certified by the Thai embassy in the country you married in. Also you need this translated document to be registered in the amphur where you live, usually by your wife as it is easier on the staff. You will need a Kor Ror 2 certifying that you are married and that it is registered in Thailand. For the visa application itself you will need a Kor Ror 22 to prove that you are still married.

 

Whilst the list is not endless I sometimes felt that it was.

 

Depending on the provincial IO office you use they may have to send a copy to the regional office so you need to make 2 copies of everything.

 

The best advice I can give you at this point is to go with your wife to the IO office you will be using and get her to ask the IO exactly  what they want and if it is anything like KPP they will ask for more later.

 

Make that your initial visit then with just less than a month to go make your first application and learn what they really want for the second try. If you get rejected the first time you shouldn't be charged 1,900 baht and you will know what they want.

 

If you need more information I will do what I can but ubonjoe on the visa Q&A knows far more than any other TVF poster.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Tick box for marriage extension 2019 v02.xlsx 11.13 kB · 4 downloads

Thank you, this is extremely helpful. 

 

I got married in Chiang Mai. I live in Chiang Mai.

 

Do you think the Bangkok bank statement will be sufficient or do I need some form of income declaration from my home country?

[UKresonant]

4 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

Do you think the Bangkok bank statement will be sufficient or do I need some form of income declaration from my home country?

From what I've read.....

UK, Australia and USA, have to use your transfers together with a Bank Letter just before or on the day, demonstrating the inbound >40k/month comes from overseas. (a few posted they were asked to show some indication the  source is legit. as secondary info)

Other nationalities get an income letter from their Embassy or a friendly Embassy, income can be in Home Country.

 

I transfer just under 40k every month by SWIFT from the UK, as a just in case experiment, GBP  needs to edge up a fraction to be compliant, or wait on that pension indexing early next year ????.  I send last years pension this year, just in case of any tax confusion if I do stay longer.  No circumstances yet that I would be in Thailand long enough to do a extension, so far!  

[billd766]

12 hours ago, nailbrains8 said:

Thank you, this is extremely helpful. 

 

I got married in Chiang Mai. I live in Chiang Mai.

 

Do you think the Bangkok bank statement will be sufficient or do I need some form of income declaration from my home country?

They will need to see 12 months income from the BKK bank of at least 40,000 baht per month, despite their saying an average of 40,000 pcm. I have 3 pensions and though I cannot get a letter from the embassy I still produced my annual pension docs. They may want to see them or not, but if you can get them IMO do it.

 

What I did was make a spreadsheet of dates, amounts and pension providers and chucked that in. What they seem to want to see is that the amounts are tagged as FTT and a foreign transfer to "prove" that the money was brought in from abroad.

 

As you live in CM you have the advantage of only filing one set of docs.

 

Is your marriage registered at your local amphur office?

 

Bill

 

[Russell17au]

I applied for my 4th marriage extension earlier this month using the income method and was rejected because I am an Australian and the Australian pension is paid every 4 weeks and not monthly and the IO used that as a reason to reject my application. He said that it must be monthly deposits not 4 weekly even thou the bank had done a spreadsheet of my deposits over the 12 months and showed my average annual monthly income the IO would not accept it. I went to Savannakhet and got a new 1 year multi entry marriage visa for 5000 baht but I had been offered by an agent to fix the problem for 19000 baht.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

I applied for my 4th marriage extension earlier this month using the income method and was rejected because I am an Australian and the Australian pension is paid every 4 weeks and not monthly and the IO used that as a reason to reject my application. He said that it must be monthly deposits not 4 weekly even thou the bank had done a spreadsheet of my deposits over the 12 months and showed my average annual monthly income the IO would not accept it. I went to Savannakhet and got a new 1 year multi entry marriage visa for 5000 baht but I had been offered by an agent to fix the problem for 19000 baht.

Where was this?

 

My Immigration office is at Khampaeng Phet and they send the paperwork on to Chiang Mai.

 

I have 3 pensions and one is paid on the 15th and one on the 20th monthly plus my state pension is paid every 4th Friday. They all go into my TW account in the UK and I transfer them across and they arrive the next afternoon unless it is a Friday when it arrives on the Monday. Unless the Thai banks are on Thai public/bank holidays when it is paid the next working day.

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Where was this?

 

My Immigration office is at Khampaeng Phet and they send the paperwork on to Chiang Mai.

 

I have 3 pensions and one is paid on the 15th and one on the 20th monthly plus my state pension is paid every 4th Friday. They all go into my TW account in the UK and I transfer them across and they arrive the next afternoon unless it is a Friday when it arrives on the Monday. Unless the Thai banks are on Thai public/bank holidays when it is paid the next working day.

This was at the Khon Kaen Immigration Office on the 11th November. My pension is paid directly from the Reserve Bank in Australia into my Bangkok Bank account in Khon Kaen and it is paid in every 4 weeks which gives me 13 payments which is what upset the IO because he said must be 12 monthly payments. The Police Order states that the income method is the average annual monthly income, which according to that I had no problems. Now I have a Non-Imm "O" visa based on marriage from Savannakhet which is good for 15 months and there is no financials involved with it, the only thing is that instead of doing a 90 day report at the local Imm Office I must do a border run. The only other way was to go through an agent who would have shared the fee with this IO and the fee was 20,000

[gimo]

52 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

This was at the Khon Kaen Immigration Office on the 11th November. My pension is paid directly from the Reserve Bank in Australia into my Bangkok Bank account in Khon Kaen and it is paid in every 4 weeks which gives me 13 payments which is what upset the IO because he said must be 12 monthly payments. The Police Order states that the income method is the average annual monthly income, which according to that I had no problems. Now I have a Non-Imm "O" visa based on marriage from Savannakhet which is good for 15 months and there is no financials involved with it, the only thing is that instead of doing a 90 day report at the local Imm Office I must do a border run. The only other way was to go through an agent who would have shared the fee with this IO and the fee was 20,000

What sort of pension do you have ? I'll be heading to Thai next year and my Aussie Old Age Pension will be sent fortnightly . So that's about 26 payments per year . The average over the year should bring it up to about 40,000 per month , and I was hoping to be able to add a small , regular payment from my Aussie bank to make sure it was comfortably over 40,000 . Does this mean I've got buckleys .

Edited November 30, 2019 by gimo
change info

[Mr Smithy]

Be aware that not all Immigration offices will honour the Police Order. Phuket, for example, refuses extensions based on marriage unless the applicant has 400K in a Thai bank or can prove income from employment in Thailand using pay slips/tax records. Monthly income from abroad is rejected unless supported by an Embassy letter. 

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/marriage-m/

Edited November 30, 2019 by Mr Smithy
Added link

[hlj]

Did my extension in May in Chiang Mai I could only show 2 months deposits from my pension in BBK NY bank transferred to my account here in THAILAND BBK they gave me a month extension for 1,900 bahts until I had my 3 months for the required 3 months. In June I had my 3 months deposit went back in June when I had my 3 months deposits. and got my yearly extension with no problem. I am a American which my embassy stopped giving out income verification letters.

[Balance]

17 hours ago, UKresonant said:

From what I've read.....

UK, Australia and USA, have to use your transfers together with a Bank Letter just before or on the day, demonstrating the inbound >40k/month comes from overseas. (a few posted they were asked to show some indication the  source is legit. as secondary info)

Other nationalities get an income letter from their Embassy or a friendly Embassy, income can be in Home Country.

 

I transfer just under 40k every month by SWIFT from the UK, as a just in case experiment, GBP  needs to edge up a fraction to be compliant, or wait on that pension indexing early next year ????.  I send last years pension this year, just in case of any tax confusion if I do stay longer.  No circumstances yet that I would be in Thailand long enough to do a extension, so far!  

I had social security in the U.S. transfer money to my BKB account in New York. It then went to Thailand overnight. No problems.

[KhaoYai]

15 hours ago, Russell17au said:

He said that it must be monthly deposits not 4 weekly even thou the bank had done a spreadsheet of my deposits over the 12 months and showed my average annual monthly income the IO would not accept it.

I expect to be slagged off for this but........... I haven't read the rule that says the income can be averaged but I have no reason to disbelieve you. On that basis, have you considered using a lawyer to sort this out? Yes it might cost you but consider this:

 

a). 12 month Multi Entry Non O's based on marriage may not always be available. Should Savannakhet change to the E-visa system - under current rules, that's the end of them + to apply for any sort of visa from them (after such a change) you will either have to be a Lao citizen or have a legal right to live there.

 

b). Given the recent increasing amount of denied entry reports, I can see a time where you go do your visa run and are then denied re-entry.  The grounds? You are not using the visa for the purpose intended (and believe it or not, they would be correct). Yes, some do this as an alternative to proving their income but for how much longer.

 

If I was you I'd try to get this sorted properly, ASAP.

Edited December 1, 2019 by KhaoYai

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I expect to be slagged off for this but........... I haven't read the rule that says the income can be averaged but I have no reason to disbelieve you. On that basis, have you considered using a lawyer to sort this out? Yes it might cost you but consider this:

Nobody will slag you off as this ruling is so unclear and it would seem the IOs make it up as they go along. 

This is a reply from UbonJoe in a topic requesting similar information about the monthly averages.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, vogie said:

Nobody will slag you off as this ruling is so unclear and it would seem the IOs make it up as they go along. 

I would say it is very clear and the average annual income has been in the last 3 primary police orders going back to at least 2006.

From clause 2.18 of police order 327/2557.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

 

The confusing part is that the amendment of the police order states every month for the past 12 months which does not mean it cannot be more than one every month. When they wrote the requirements apparently immigration was not aware some people get payments every 2 weeks or 4 weeks.

 

One solution if possible would be to have the payments transferred into a bank in your home country and then do monthly transfers of at least 40k baht.

[vogie]

"6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month"

 

But does their inclusion of the wording "no less" actually mean if you do inadvertantly drop a smidgeon below 40,000baht just for one month even though your average transfers will be above 40,000 for the year, they would not allow the extension.

I too get paid every 28 days and not monthly, which means 13 payments a year, to say I'm not confident of Jomptien accepting my extension in March is an understatement. I may have to go down the tried and tested route.????

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by vogie

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

But does their inclusion of the wording "no less" actually mean if you do inadvertantly drop a smidgeon below 40,000baht just for one month even though your average transfers will be above 40,000 for the year, they would not allow the extension.

It does not mean the monthly income. It means the annual income must be at least 480k baht which divided by 12 gives a minimum income of no less than 40k baht.

[billd766]

16 hours ago, Mr Smithy said:

Be aware that not all Immigration offices will honour the Police Order. Phuket, for example, refuses extensions based on marriage unless the applicant has 400K in a Thai bank or can prove income from employment in Thailand using pay slips/tax records. Monthly income from abroad is rejected unless supported by an Embassy letter. 

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/marriage-m/

Not quite correct. I am retired with no job in Thailand and no 400,000 in the bank.

However I can prove an income from my UK pensions (which is what I did this year). 

 

As a Brit I do not get an embassy letter but my pension income was enough. Nor do several other embassies supply a letter any more, but people DO get extensions without embassy letters or 400,000 in the bank.

 

Perhaps the Immigration Office that you use is making its own rules up.

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not mean the monthly income. It means the annual income must be at least 480k baht which divided by 12 gives a minimum income of no less than 40k baht.

Yes sorry Joe, I meant 480,000 a year, but what is not chrystal clear is when it says "not less than 40,000 a month" which would suggest to me that if one of the transfers was just under the 40k that it would invalidate the whole year. Has anybody actually done an extension when one of the months was just under the 40k, there again it may depend on the individual IO. Or maybe it is chrystal clear and I'm as thick as two short planks.????

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes sorry Joe, I meant 480,000 a year, but what is not chrystal clear is when it says "not less than 40,000 a month" which would suggest to me that if one of the transfers was just under the 40k that it would invalidate the whole year.

If you had transfers of 40k baht or more for a year there would be no need for averaging the income.

It is badly worded in the translation. It means the average cannot be less than 40k baht.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you had transfers of 40k baht or more for a year there would be no need for averaging the income.

It is badly worded in the translation. It means the average cannot be less than 40k baht.

Thanks Joe, that's what I thought, which means by inadvertantly transferring circa 39,500 baht one month, it negates this method of extension for myself.

[ubonjoe]

41 minutes ago, vogie said:

Thanks Joe, that's what I thought, which means by inadvertantly transferring circa 39,500 baht one month, it negates this method of extension for myself.

You could still use the average if only one month was below 40k baht. Your other transfers over  40k baht would make up the 500 baht shortfall.

[KhaoYai]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps the Immigration Office that you use is making its own rules up.

Which is the root of so many problems in immigration!

 

I really cannot understand why this happens - a rule is a rule. If a speed limit is 90kmh, its 90kmh in Nakhon Ratchasima and Bangkok.  I know of no 'discretion' allowed to Highway Police chiefs that permits them to institute local speed limits.

 

Whether the so called 'discretion' that appears to be employed by Immigration Police is actually allowed or just taken leads to so many problems and it also leads to 'opportunities' for the unscrupulous amongst law enforcement agencies. As it would be so easy to sort this out - a simple directive from above, its understandable that people to lean towards the potential 'opportunities' as being the reason its not.

Edited December 1, 2019 by KhaoYai

[billd766]

I understand your frustration and sympathise with you.

 

AFAIK all the offices run the same system, however each office can ask for more information from us if the feel the need.

 

To change from a retirement to a marriage extension this August I took perhaps 30 hours work on my part and at least 5 x 130 km round trips to immigration, 3 with my wife, before it was accepted and granted after 30 days "consideration". 

 

I must have used and scrapped over 200 sheets of A4 printer paper and at least a dozen sheets of photo paper.

 

IMHO as they use the computers so much, It would save them time, money and storage space for every extension for every farang, if we could do it all on the PC then copy to a memory stick which they could run through a virus checker before loading it into the IO PC.

Edited December 2, 2019 by billd766
added extra text

[Changoverandout]

I was refused an extension based on an average of over 40k a month. I had 486000 a year.

 I was told an average is not allowed even though it’s stated in Thai and English that it is.

 I had to put 40000 in my bank for 60 days

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

I was refused an extension based on an average of over 40k a month. I had 486000 a year.

 I was told an average is not allowed even though it’s stated in Thai and English that it is.

 I had to put 40000 in my bank for 60 days

Were you refused the extension because on some months you didn't meet the 40k criteria, which IO refused you?

[ivor bigun]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

I understand your frustration and sympathise with you.

 

AFAIK all the offices run the same system, however each office can ask for more information from us if the feel the need.

 

To change from a retirement to a marriage extension this August I took perhaps 30 hours work on my part and at least 5 x 130 km round trips to immigration, 3 with my wife, before it was accepted and granted after 30 days "consideration". 

 

I must have used and scrapped over 200 sheets of A4 printer paper and at least a dozen sheets of photo paper.

 

IMHO as they use the computers so much, It would save them time, money and storage space for every extension for every farang, if we could do it all on the PC then copy to a memory stick which they could run through a virus checker before loading it into the IO PC.

I am changing at Jomtien this month ,what was it that was wrong with your paperwork ,i have myself done all that Ubonjoe listed and from the list they gave me ,luckily its not far to drive ,unlike yourgoodself.

[billd766]

59 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

I am changing at Jomtien this month ,what was it that was wrong with your paperwork ,i have myself done all that Ubonjoe listed and from the list they gave me ,luckily its not far to drive ,unlike your good self.

I am sorry for this long post but I am condensing about 30 hours of work.

 

To begin with I gave them far too much paperwork.

1   TW transfer details.  Not needed

2   A nice printed map from Google Earth noting every turn, kms and landmarks. They wanted a hand drawn one. My wife did it on the spot. Immigration keep a copy of that on their computer. They also wanted the map drawn on their piece of A4 with their design on it. I now have a scanned copy ready for next year.

3   I gave them statements for my KBank account for the year and they wanted FTT details from BKK bank which had only been running 7 months and not enough income was shown on the BKK account but she did marry the two together. The KBank didn't show the FTT details and I had to highlight in yellow the transactions.I also made a spreadsheet out for all the transfers cross referring each. They accepted that.

4   I made a hash of the bank letter 3 or 4 times.

5   I updated my BKK bankbook on the way to Immi but of course I didn't have the photo copies so my wife went next door and did them. As I had updated my bankbook that morning I used the previous bank letter which wasn't accepted. I went to the other branch of BKK Bank and explained what I wanted and that was wrong twice, so I rang my wife at Immi to explain what was wanted and that didn't work so I gave my phone to the bank lady and my wife gave hers to the IO and between them it was worked out.

6   The photos were not stuck on their A4 paper so I had to print out and stick another 3 pages of photos on their paper. I have a blank form scanned ready for next year.

7   I had signed every piece of paper for them and when I came back to the office she had put her stamp on them all and both my wife and I had to sign again inside her stamps. 

8   The morning that we were finally accepted was the second proper try and it worked but took from 08:30 to 11:30. The first try showed up much of the things that she didn't want and the actual day showed up more.

9   To my credit I was fairly calm and collected and I did not give in to hysterics, shouting and screaming or throwing my toys out of the pram, and I waited until we were well away from the office before I lost control a bit.

10  Hopefully next year I can skip most of the dross from this year'

11   I handed in about 35 pages in the end and 2 copies as one stays at KPP and the other set goes to CM for approval.

12   I have about 200 or more A4 pages that I will get around to shredding soon.