Thai Domestic Electrical Work.

[ExoticMatter]

. If it still bothers you then make notes on small pieces of paper saying CAUTION...REVERSED POLARITY and put one in each of the switch boxes and light fixtures and junction boxes.

Of course this is just the rice farmer approach....and as you well know all us rice farmers are luckless and clueless.....

Chownah

P.S. You might be able to just swap the wires in the switch box...or the fixture...or something like that but being clueless...and lazy...I'll not suggest how this could be done.

Chownah

You have to be pretty fast, as AC/DC current switches polarity constantly at 50 or 60Hz, thats 50 or 60 times a second. Thats why it does not matter what way you insert a plug into an electrical outlet.

What you should worry about is overloaded wiring, not dimensioned for the load, and short circuits, and not to mention earth being directly connected to one of the live wires, and carrying a current...

It certainly does matter which way you insert a plug. Its only the live(+/-340 Volts) that oscillates about the neutral (which stays at 0 volts always)

Old (UK) valve tv's have a directly tapped (unisolated) rectified (by 1 diode) live of about 340 VDC. if you plugged in the wrong way round the chassis is live and tv probably blows up (am not sure myself what they did in places like Thailand?)

More commonly Variacs (directly tapped speed/voltage controllers) are also polarity sensitive.

Its only design that allows polarity insensitive plugs.

[GungaDin]

I guess I will continue this thread with some added information that I hope will be useful.

<snip>

We all know that the regulations regarding electrical systems for the home are quite loose if non-existant, I really don't know what the regs are if they do exist but what I do know is the Provincial Electric Authority of Thailand (PEA) does have serious guidelines that they would like to see adhered to and they try to make it quite well known to the local population.

As I mentioned we are building a house and just the other day we visited the PEA office here in Banchang to apply for the temporary power for construction. Very simple process. When we finished I happened to notice a bookshelf below a large display board. On this shelf were several booklets and pamphlets showing and describing electrical use, energy use and conservation and electrical use safety. I took note of one booklet of 42 pages that was especially informative. This book shows and describes the proper way of installing electric services in most Thai homes. From the simple home in the country village to the most modern. All pictures and diagrams are clear and no need for reading Thai if you are a foreigner. For any Thai that claims to be a "professional" electrician all of this information should be second nature and used on a daily basis. For those of us that post the myriad of questions about how to install a service panel and wire it correctly this booklet could easily serve as a guide. For those that say they cannot make the "local" electrician understand what they want them to do I would think this book would be a useful tool to "guide" the local into doing it your way.

It is very obvious to me that the PEA is trying very much to get the message out to all that there is a way to make your home more safe and reliable using the methods shown by them and for not much cost. I would have to believe they are educating folks as best they can. This book definitely goes into earthing/grounding techniques the how to and also the whys. Great stuff.

(edit; images deleted)

I attach a scan of the cover and the first 2 pages. I would imagine that any PEA office has these same books. Next time you're out and about if this kind of thing peaks your curiosity stop in and get one. If you understand electrical a little the pictures tell the story because the book is of course written in Thai.

Is this the solution to all your issues with the local guy? Hardly! But this may help some of you get your point across to the "electrician" your trying to persuade to do it the way you know is correct. I would say maybe a visit by them to the PEA office would help also.

Longball.

thanks for the tip & info.

I'm getting 3 copies of that booklet.

Looking fwd to watching the local sparkie's face when I give him a copy.

BTW, there is something buggy in yr 3 images.

cheers

din.

[idrankwhat]

Although the electricians did ground all of the receptacles, switches and lights in my home as well as installing GFI's (ground fault circuit interrupter) for my bathrooms and outside receptacles because I told them what to do, they failed to ground the house with either a ground rod or water meter clamps at the main thus it was all in vain and I wound up doing the rest by myself. My father was an electrician and very strict about safety I learned with him by working as his apprentice and later became a licensed journeyman electrician myself not that I followed that path but I still have the knowledge. If you get a little tingle every time you you touch something electrical for example the telephone line port on a notebook computer it means you do not have a ground.

[CHINWA]

Most switches, outlets and light fixtures are simply cheap junk.

but that is up to the selection of those who are building the home. if one selects junk and is not prepared to pay for adequate quality one gets junk. i have no problems with the aforementioned items (imported from Italy and Germany) and i wish all subcontractors had worked on my home like the electrician.

in spite of communication problems he worked to my full satisfaction although my technical demands were skyhigh above general standard.

I've got to say that you are a lucky guy... I bought everything imported as well but in the end the "electrician" (who probably is also ridding a motorcycle or taxi on his spare times) did a miserable job. The problem is that if you're looking for someone professional in the electrical field, later when you need a brick worker or a painter you'll realize that it's the same guy... Professionals on a single field there are very few.

As I don't have communication problems but found it very difficult to get things done the western way. Safety on electrical installation is something that don't exist here. Their comment is always "in Thailand we do it this way and everybody is happy. The construction sector in Thailand is a mess and the contracts are just a short cut to rip you off. Fake companies that are not registered and when you try to sue them it takes more than 5 years...

[BillyBobThai]

I am moving out of the city, Pattaya, next month and moving to the country. I will be building a house in the next few months. I went to the one of the local HomePro shops looking for 3 nonductor wire, to see what is available. They only had one size in stock and the ground wire was smaller than the other two. Is this ok?? I would agree with what someone else said about switches and plugs here are generally crap. After living here for 5 years, I have had to change 5 or 6 light switches where I live. In the states I never had to replace switches in any of my houses. Can some one give me either a picture or part number of what to look for. I not an electrician, but have built or remodeled six houses, and passed inspection on each of them. Like someone said, it is not rocket science. Each room had it's own circuit/breaker, as well as each major appliance. Kitchen, bathroom and any outside circuits had a GFI.

Being from the states, should I plan on cutting my breaker sizes in half?

On 12 ga. wire a 20 amp breaker, 10 ga. a 30 amp, 8 ga. a 50 amp.

The only problems that I foresee are, getting use to wire sizing, mm instead of gauge, and as I am not going to be doing the work, make sure my sparky does what I want. I will be with him, all day, everyday with my voltmeter. By they time we have finished, we either be good friends or I will be in the hospital. Maybe at the end of each work day, a few cold beers will sooth his pains.

The main thing I need is a place to buy good plugin and switches.

Thanks

[Crossy]

Bob ^^^

Start here for your wiring and breaker sizes http://crossy.co.uk/wiring/Circuit%20types.html don't try to continue to use AWG sizes, they will just confuse your sparks

It's common these days for the ground conductor in 3-core to be smaller, saves copper. If you can't get 3 core in the size you want just use regular 2 core and add a separate (green) ground wire, if you're running in conduit (advisable) then there is no problem (the single insulated wires should not be run unprotected).

Big name brands produce decent hardware (I like Panasonic) but there are others. I've had good results with Haco outlets, a modular system that allows you to choose the combination outlet styles you want, see them in HomePro.

[BillyBobThai]

Thanks Crossy for the help.

I would like to conceal my wiring in the wall but do not trust sparkys ability to do a good job. The only option that I see is to use conduit to carry the wires. I did this in my cabinet shop because it was considered commercial. I will probably use the plastic conduit and paint to match the room.

Thanks again for all the help you so freely give to the members here on TV.

[Crossy]

I would like to conceal my wiring in the wall but do not trust sparkys ability to do a good job. The only option that I see is to use conduit to carry the wires. I did this in my cabinet shop because it was considered commercial. I will probably use the plastic conduit and paint to match the room.

Thanks again for all the help you so freely give to the members here on TV.

We aim to please

Bury your conduit in the interior cement (Thais put so much you don't need to chase) not like the plaster we use in Europe. Junction boxes in the roof space with screw terminals or wire-nuts will keep it all safe and secure (take their roll of tape off them).

Naked cables / wires invite the local fauna to sample

[dotcom]

BBT. The 3 core wire you saw was likely 2.5 x 2.5 x 1.5 & it's perfect for sockets.

For lights you can buy 1 roll each 1.5 mm2 red & black & use this for lights. Only the live (red) run to the switches, the neutrals can be "ganged" together anyplace convienient.

[Beardog]

Part of the problem (among many) are the dam_n welding companies just sticking wires in the service point instead of properly wiring a temporary service outlet to use.

[Datsun240Z]

I think it's okay, except the earthing problem should be fixed. And love to see the wiring under the ground, instead of spaghetti like above the ground , like in Bangkok for instance. But that may take some time.

[elkangorito]

The poll results are expected but nonetheless interesting (although certain members have railed against this. i.e. claimed that Thai electricians are as good as any other electricians).

The poll began on the 30th of March 2007. Comments have included negative aspects of foreign (non Thai) electrical companies in Thailand.

The results may suggest that certain foreign companies, the origin of which (country) seemed to attract customers, was not "up to scratch".

In my opinion, this suggests that certain people (companies) have simply tried to "cash in" on the poor situation of Thai electrics without actually looking at;

1] country location.

2] general local installation techniques.

The result is, for example, a German person seeking an electrician who can wire the house according to the German (European) wiring code. This could also apply to an American, wishing to have American style wiring in the abode. These requirements seem to be easily (sadly) fulfilled.

The end result is a mish-mash of wiring that not only confuses the existing electrical situation in Thailand but also creates potential disasters.

There is only one way for Thailand to electrically progress...and that is to adopt a relevant set of standards. The standards of cold countries do not apply here even though the standards may appear to do so.

Thankfully, the education of Thai "tradesmen" (for the want of a better word), is slowly changing toward a more "apprenticeship" style system, although I believe it will be many years before "Thai culture" will not interfere with the approach toward a technical situation.

Thanks to all who participated in the poll .

[Crossy]

I agree 100% with what elkangorito says above.

As I've noted in other threads, rather than using inappropriate standards, or worse, parts of inappropiate standards (such as using UK style ring-mains without the use of fused plugs). We should concentrate on improving the QUALITY of the installations by encouraging the use of proper connection techniques (wire-nuts), a uniform colour code and proper cable containment / protection and not running unprotected single wires.

I am not aware of a Thai domestic installation standard (although there is a PEA guide). In the absence of suitable documents I suggest we utilise the Australian standard as a basis, it has been developed for a similar climate.

This poll has now run its course, so I'll close the thread (with the agreement of the OP). We have several other electrical threads running and any member is welcome to start new ones.

Stupid questions are welcomed, we would all rather answer 'stupid' questions than read of some young life lost because a question wasn't asked.