watgate Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I was wondering if any knowledgeable income tax individuals would know of any impact for getting married to a thai national and then having your US income taxes prepared? My wife obvious does not have a social security number and does not have any income to report so what ramifications are there when preparing your US income taxes as a married individual versus doing your income taxes in the past as a single person? Any clarification would be appreciated. Also, I know there used to be a fellow from the US who prepared US income taxes in the Chiang Mai area but he passed away several years ago. Are their any US tax preparers in the Chiang Mai area that someone could recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilrob Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 it is easy to get a tax reporting number for your wife---you can find the form with an internet search. For married persons, if your income is less than $24,000 you do not need to file a return at all (a higher number if you are over 65). If you do need to file a return, contact American International Tax Advisers in Bangkok (easily found using Google). However, you may find it cheaper to use Turbotax, depending on your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 You may want to file as single or HOH to keep your wife out of the US tax and reporting systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffandgop Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 PM sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamb00ler Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Bill97 said: You may want to file as single or HOH to keep your wife out of the US tax and reporting systems. I can think of NO disadvantage for OP's wife having a TIN (taxpayer identification number). For the 2019 tax year the standard deductions are: single=12,200, Head of Household =18,350 and married filing jointly=24,400. If OP is 65+ he gets an additional deduction of 1,650 if filing single. If filing jointly and either he/wife are 65+ they get additional 1,300 deduction, but if both 65+, they get extra 2,600 deduction. Unless there is some special circumstance, OP should file as married filing jointly to benefit from the higher standard deduction. If your taxes are not complicated I think you can file them for free. The federal gov't stipulates that the tax software companies offer free filing to lower income filers. Those companies often try to hide the option to file for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) I apologize for my original post on the topic below.Not to take away from your topic,more info here! Question for USA Expats concerning Marriage, Taxes and the SSA https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1072039-question-for-usa-expats-concerning-marriage-taxes-and-the-ssa/#comments Edited December 9, 2019 by riclag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, riclag said: Not to take away from your topic,more info here! As I said in that thread it appears to only concern those that are not American Citizens who have foreign spouse. Poster is a citizen and wife should be able to make the normal decoration statement to pay US tax and obtain an ITIN when he files 2019 return. Edit on re-read see OP does not directly say he is American Citizen but believe he is or would have stated such if not. Edited December 9, 2019 by lopburi3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk_usa Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) Search ITIN on the IRS Site. A lot of info. I did it for my wife last year and it is not that difficult. You send the form in with your tax filing. It took about 3 months to process, but it is worth it for added deduction. Whatever you do, do NOT use the agent in Bangkok. There is one listed on the IRS site. I contacted them, and not only did they give me incorrect information, but they wanted an exorbitant fee for processing. There is no charge from the IRS if you do it yourself. More here. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number Additionally, my wife is the beneficiary on my mutual funds in the U.S. When the time comes, she will need a tax number (now listed on the account) to collect. Better to get the number now then have her try to figure it out later. Edited December 9, 2019 by silverhawk_usa Addition 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 hours ago, silverhawk_usa said: Search ITIN on the IRS Site. A lot of info. I did it for my wife last year and it is not that difficult. You send the form in with your tax filing. It took about 3 months to process, but it is worth it for added deduction. Whatever you do, do NOT use the agent in Bangkok. There is one listed on the IRS site. I contacted them, and not only did they give me incorrect information, but they wanted an exorbitant fee for processing. There is no charge from the IRS if you do it yourself. More here. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number Additionally, my wife is the beneficiary on my mutual funds in the U.S. When the time comes, she will need a tax number (now listed on the account) to collect. Better to get the number now then have her try to figure it out later. Did your wife sign her name to the application in English or Thai and how about the 1040 income tax form did she sign her name in english or thai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 hours ago, riclag said: Did your wife sign her name to the application in English or Thai and how about the 1040 income tax form did she sign her name in english or thai? My wife has always signed US forms in English without issues but have not signed a 1040 in a decade or more as file electronically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watgate Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 I am considering not getting a TIN from the IRS because my wife has no income or interest. Also I don't see us living for 5 or more years in the US so she would never be eligible to collect from my social security when I die. She never changed her name so I don't know if that would make a difference if I did decide to apply to the IRS for a TIN for my wife. My only big concern is that when I pass on she would be the beneficiary of my estate. I don't know if she would need a TIN in order to realize the proceeds of my estate when I pass on. I really need to find a good tax atty in the Chiang Mai area but there doesn't seem to be one around. I am a little reluctant to use an atty in Bangkok due to the distances involved but I guess I could if the need were to arise. I try and simplify my life and it seems like I am continually being thrown curve balls and making my life more stressful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, watgate said: Also I don't see us living for 5 or more years in the US so she would never be eligible to collect from my social security when I die. Why are survivor benefits dependent on her living for any period of time in the US? https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/spouse-social-security/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watgate Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 My understanding is that both spouses have to live in the US for 5 years in order for my wife to be able to collect from my social security when I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, watgate said: My understanding is that both spouses have to live in the US for 5 years in order for my wife to be able to collect from my social security when I die. I'm asking what your understanding is based on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, watgate said: My understanding is that both spouses have to live in the US for 5 years in order for my wife to be able to collect from my social security when I die. I would contact SS in Manila to confirm that as have seen information posted saying there is no such residency requirement if the country involved has an agreement with USA. Have no idea is Thailand has such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presnock Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I married a thai lady, got the tax number from the IRS no problem, my wife doesn't work either but with the double deduction, it definitely saves one money. The wife having a US tax number doesn't allow IRS to check into any THAI accounts in Thailand, only on US personal accts which we also have to send in each year FBAR advising the Justice Dept of personal accts having at least $10,000 during the year. A joint acct meeting that criteria would also have the wife's name as co-owner of THAT acct. Any other acct she has in a Thai bank cannot be scrutinized in any way legally. I have never heard of the 5-yr in USA requirement (as is England I blv which changed not too long ago with that restriction). My wife will receive a portion of my govt retirement upon my death if before hers and I know of no restriction that she would have to live in the states 5-years prior to receiving those funds. There are also several "free" tax preparations offered on line for federal taxes (state are charged) and I have used several. I blv Turbotax requires a US address but not sure unless they have changed since I last checked with them. Good luck, I have had zero problems with taxes that I do with these freebies nor any probs with IRS/Justice - I think many problems arise from people trying to circumvent regulations/laws, same with visas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamb00ler Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 The best explanation for who is eligible to collect SSA payments while living outside the USA is given in this publication: -->LINK<-- It can be confusing as the rules depend on so many conditions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watgate Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 I spoke with A tax specialist from the US who works in Bangkok, namely Thomas Carden, and he said his company use to obtain the ITIN from the IRS but they stopped doing it because their applications were being rejected 1 or more times. He said clients were very upset at the delays and it became a money loser for their company so they stopped offering this service. He said the IRS has gotten a lot stricter and has tightened up their processing procedures considerably and he recommended using a firm that specializes in obtaining the ITIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, watgate said: I spoke with A tax specialist from the US who works in Bangkok, namely Thomas Carden, and he said his company use to obtain the ITIN from the IRS but they stopped doing it because their applications were being rejected 1 or more times. He said clients were very upset at the delays and it became a money loser for their company so they stopped offering this service. He said the IRS has gotten a lot stricter and has tightened up their processing procedures considerably and he recommended using a firm that specializes in obtaining the ITIN. Believe under new guidelines applications for personal ITIN are now processed as part or IRS tax return filing and you just add the ITIN paperwork. No need for any firm to obtain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watgate Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Lopburi3- I am having a hard time getting a handle on this whole procedure. When I do my income tax return each year I use my US address since I still have a condo in the US which I go back each year around the beginning of April to stay in for the 1- 1 1/2 months I am in the US. I go back to see some DR's and take care of some business. Would using my US address on my tax return cause any potential problem with obtaining a ITIN for my wife? Can you possibly walk me through exactly what I need to submit to the IRS to obtain the ITIN for my wife. I guess I would have to mail any required info to the the IRS. Do you think it would be better to try and obtain the ITIN in Thailand or obtain it in the US? I guess I would have to pay a firm in the US to apply for the ITIN whereas if I apply in Thailand I guess I can apply myself at no additional cost. Thanks for any input and if this doesn't kill me nothing will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante99 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 22 hours ago, Bill97 said: You may want to file as single or HOH to keep your wife out of the US tax and reporting systems. Correct. If the wife has or possibly will have significant income or assets, those would be taxed by the US if she files jointly/married with you, and you file correctly. That additional tax may be greater than the savings from the highter married standard deduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 You do not need to pay anyone - this is a normal government function. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/how-do-i-apply-for-an-itin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk_usa Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, riclag said: Did your wife sign her name to the application in English or Thai and how about the 1040 income tax form did she sign her name in english or thai? As the forms and process have nothing to do with Thailand She signed in English. A certified translation of her passport was included. On the IRS site is a table of what ID may be accepted. I used Star Visa, near the U.S. Consulate, to take care of her passport translation and walked it through the Government offices to get the necessary certifications. Easy. (If she doesn't have a passport, get one. It is a quick and easy process in Chiang Mai, and probably the best ID for your ITIN ) Edited December 10, 2019 by silverhawk_usa Addition 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverhawk_usa Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, watgate said: Lopburi3- I am having a hard time getting a handle on this whole procedure. When I do my income tax return each year I use my US address since I still have a condo in the US which I go back each year around the beginning of April to stay in for the 1- 1 1/2 months I am in the US. I go back to see some DR's and take care of some business. Would using my US address on my tax return cause any potential problem with obtaining a ITIN for my wife? Can you possibly walk me through exactly what I need to submit to the IRS to obtain the ITIN for my wife. I guess I would have to mail any required info to the the IRS. Do you think it would be better to try and obtain the ITIN in Thailand or obtain it in the US? I guess I would have to pay a firm in the US to apply for the ITIN whereas if I apply in Thailand I guess I can apply myself at no additional cost. Thanks for any input and if this doesn't kill me nothing will. Look at my post on page one of this topic. The IRS link will walk you through the steps and explain better than anyone on here. It really is not that difficult if you do a little searching. My opinion, and only an OPINION, is your address shouldn't matter. BTW I have lived full time in Thailand for 17 years, and with my now wife for 14 of those years. Every year I had to pay additional tax to the IRS. Don't tell my wife, but we were married just last year and mainly because I realized the tax savings under the new tax laws. I regret I did not do it sooner. Don't get frustrated; follow through with your application. Edited December 10, 2019 by silverhawk_usa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, watgate said: I am considering not getting a TIN from the IRS because my wife has no income or interest. That'll cost you a lot: For example, 'married filing jointly' for tax year 2019, on $40k of gross income, will cost you $1484 in taxes (assuming you get your wife an ITIN and you're both under 65 yrs of age). But don't get an ITIN, then you have to file 'married filing separately' (whose numbers are the same as filing singly). Your taxes here would be $3145 -- over twice the bill as filing jointly! Even if your wife had a small amount of interest, say, $100 on a Thai savings account, yes, you would have to include that on your US tax return. But we're only talking an additional $10 in tax with this example -- thus, even wives with some income, warrant getting an ITIN. And as others have said (except tax professional Thomas Carden), it's not difficult to get your wife an ITIN. Just fill out the simple W7 application, attach it to your 2019 tax return (now filed jointly), include her passport (or a certified copy from the Thai MFA, if she'll be traveling soon), and mail the package to the special ITIN application address in Austin. The W7 has your wife's physical address in Thailand and her mailing address (they can be the same) -- the latter is where they'll respond with her new ITIN, and return her passport to. Neither of those addresses need be the one you put on your 1040 -- nothing says you both need the same mailing address. Relax -- and just figure out where you'll spend this windfall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 5 hours ago, watgate said: My understanding is that both spouses have to live in the US for 5 years in order for my wife to be able to collect from my social security when I die. Yes, and live together for those five years. There are exceptions, mostly for residents of European countries, plus Australia, Japan, and Korea. Not Thailand. Interestingly, if your Thai widow moves back to the States, and fulfills the 5 year residency requirement, she'll then be entitled to the survivor package. Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, JimGant said: Interestingly, if your Thai widow moves back to the States, and fulfills the 5 year residency requirement, she'll then be entitled to the survivor package. Can you provide a link to support this statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said: Can you provide a link to support this statement? Quote If I die, will my foreign spouse receive survivor benefits? Yes. Generally, your foreign widow or widower can receive Social Security survivor benefits if they meet the requirements for spousal benefits listed above and have not remarried. They may receive reduced benefits as early as age 60 (if not disabled) or full benefits at full retirement age or older. If they do not initially meet the five-year U.S. residency requirement, they can choose to relocate to the U.S. after being widowed to complete the residency requirement and then qualify for Social Security benefits. https://www.crevelingandcreveling.com/blog/what-expat-americans-foreign-spouses-need-know-about-social-security Sorry, fellow geezers. Your 21 year old eye candy doesn't qualify. The Daughters of the American Revolution put an end to it..... Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBunny Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, JimGant said: Sorry, fellow geezers. Your 21 year old eye candy doesn't qualify. The Daughters of the American Revolution put an end to it..... Sigh. I was actually hoping for an official link - you know, from the government themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 6 hours ago, ThaiBunny said: I was actually hoping for an official link - you know, from the government themselves call Manila. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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