Thailand Is Down...

[larvidchr]

Try this just for fun, (etc)

If space travel was more advanced, surely the price of shark fin soup would be lower in Ghana?

You're right of course. It's much more fun trying to figure how to respond to an argument that doesn't compare apples to oranges, but rather attempts to compare durian with haggis.

[Maigo6]

He was told he "wasnt guaranteed entry to Thailand" by his travel agent when he went to book his last trip(yes,I know,he COULD get a tourist visa,but realistically,why the <deleted> should he?"),

and as a result he has written Thailand off completely.

lol................Cos he's a tourist, thats why!!!!

Edited April 9, 2007 by Maigo6

[Prakanong]

ROFLMAO

I wouldn't. Best to take it seriously.

From afar its hard to!

[Bruce1]

The sad thing about the zenophobia being promoted by the military-technocratic government is that it won't be those people who will suffer because of the downturn as the country turns inwards, as they'll all keep their government-funded pay packets, it will be all the innocent little people who had nothing to do with it, but will suffer because of it.

[jfsdoll]

...

Try this just for fun, this is Sweeden suddenly being swamped by black Nigerians, who with their newfound oilwealth desides that Sweeden is the place to be, allmost all the pretty tall blonde girls turn their backs on the Sweedish men, all the beuatifull houses is being sold to Nigerians, the property prices get so high that the majority of Sweedes themselfes cant afford to invest in a home, the city centers change with lots of shops catering exclusivly for Nigerians, the Sweedish costums and culture is being trampeld on, not of malice but mostly by the Nigerians ignorance, if you want to make a living you have to bow and scrabe for the Nigerians, aso. aso.

No matter how well educated and friendly the Sweedes is by nature, I would bet that apart from the Sweedes that got rich because of the Nigerians the rest would pretty soon start to feel some sort of anomosity and anger toward the Nigerians.

I expect the Thais to treat me politely, as i treat them, and i expect that some Thais know that my being in Thailand is the basis of their income, but i do not expect the Thais to like me, I frankly think that would be asking to much in the present situation.

Regards,

Yes but fact in any other country they will be beating up aliens on the street with only 1 small part of what thais have taken does not change anything imo , part of this land great apeal was

local welcoming character if it changes - and it is- towads falangs at a high rate then time to leave specially if you are travelling on ur own .

Rather be in any other South America paradise with low cost leaving facing higher street crime than in a place where ur labelled & not wanted , at least there u'll be the good guy .

[bingobongo]

well apparently it is no better/getting worse since Thaksin for the locals.....so much for the illusion of disneyland

Gloomy Bangkok Poll bodes ill for Prime Minister

According to a Bangkok University poll, 32 per cent of 1,171 respondents say life remains unchanged under the Surayud administration during the past six months, compared to 30 per cent who say the situation has gone from bad to worse and only 16.7 per cent who believe the overall political and economic landscape has improved.

http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=28840

[bingobongo]

Bomb explosion at a Bangkok theatre

Bomb explosion damaged public telephone booths and injured no one at a theatre on Monday night.

The blast destroyed three telephone booths in front of Major Cineplex Ratchayothin at about 11.30 pm. There was no report of injuries. The theatre was one of ten targets attacked by bomb explosion on New Year's Eve.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30031560

[BAF]

this is Sweeden suddenly being swamped by black Nigerians, who with their newfound oilwealth desides that Sweeden is the place to be, allmost all the pretty tall blonde girls turn their backs on the Sweedish men

You are WAY OFF BASE here.

The Thai women who "turn their backs" on the Thai men aren't the "pretty ones". They are, lookwise, the least desirable for Thai men's tastes and they are also the least desiderable as wives since they have, usually, already been married (guess what, to a Thai...) and with child(ren).

Like it or not, farangs are usually picking up Thai men's leftovers, in Thailand.

To show that amongst farangs there is at least as much diversity as amongst Asians, my tastes are much more similar to that of the average Thai man than to what is the general consensus here on what Thai beauty is.

BTW, tall blondes are, in general, much more appealing to me (and to the average Thai and Nigerian) than any Asian...

P.S. And if you really want to see the Thai reaction to seeing foreigners taking "their" pretty women try going out with really good looking young girls. If you understand Thai you will hear very "interesting" comments from the Thai folk around you... And if you happen to do this in Thai places and you are young and not that bad looking yourself (= it means that she might have other reasons to stay with you and might even actually prefer you to Thais --> big deal for their faces and their self-esteem, much more acceptable if she clearly stays with you for your money) you may have "interesting" times...

Edited April 9, 2007 by BAF

[Furbie]

this is Sweeden suddenly being swamped by black Nigerians, who with their newfound oilwealth desides that Sweeden is the place to be, allmost all the pretty tall blonde girls turn their backs on the Sweedish men

You are WAY OFF BASE here.

The Thai women who "turn their backs" on the Thai men aren't the "pretty ones". They are, lookwise, the least desirable for Thai men's tastes and they are also the least desiderable as wives since they have, usually, already been married (guess what, to a Thai...) and with child(ren).

Like it or not, farangs are usually picking up Thai men's leftovers, in Thailand.

To show that amongst farangs there is at least as much diversity as amongst Asians, my tastes are much more similar to that of the average Thai man than to what is the general consensus here on what Thai beauty is.

BTW, tall blondes are, in general, much more appealing to me (and to the average Thai and Nigerian) than any Asian...

P.S. And if you really want to see the Thai reaction to seeing foreigners taking "their" pretty women try going out with really good looking young girls. If you understand Thai you will hear very "interesting" comments from the Thai folk around you... And if you happen to do this in Thai places and you are young and not that bad looking yourself (= it means that she might have other reasons to stay with you and might even actually prefer you to Thais --> big deal for their faces and their self-esteem, much more acceptable if she clearly stays with you for your money) you may have "interesting" times...

Wow, thanks for letting me know that my highly educated, light skinned, never been married, has no children, comes from a good family, attractive to both Thais and westerners, Thai GF is a left over that no man Thai wants. In reality, a Thai man should be so lucky and many have tried and failed.

Not everyone is running around with what you described. But thanks for promoting the stereotype.

I suggest to you that if you are well educated, reasonably good looking, reasonably young, and a decent human being, you will find likewise or better in a Thai woman. I would also point out that most of my closest friends have a similar type of GF or wife to what I described.

You forget that there are a number of Thai women who have been educated overseas and prefer a Western male - as well as a good number of middle class, locally educated, girls in Thailand who do as well.

[Mr_Dave]

Wow, thanks for letting me know that my highly educated, light skinned, never been married, has no children, comes from a good family, attractive to both Thais and westerners, Thai GF is a left over that no man Thai wants.

...Obviously, Furbie didn't read carefully, before dumping that emotional response.

...The thread topic is "Thailand Is Down".

BAF's comments are relevant:

The Thai women who "turn their backs" on the Thai men aren't the "pretty ones". They are, lookwise, the least desirable for Thai men's tastes and they are also the least desiderable as wives since they have, usually, already been married (guess what, to a Thai...) and with child(ren). Like it or not, farangs are usually picking up Thai men's leftovers, in Thailand.

...BAF's observations match everything I see here.

And, as Thailand continues to go down -- in various ways -- we will see more and more leftovers on offer.

...Living in Bangkok, and speaking enough Thai to carry on a conversation about such matters, it is easy for me to confirm that the Thai women working in the farang areas are, indeed, leftovers.

Going to work in a farang tourist area is, often, their last-chance on the down-ward slope of their lives.

If they don't win the lottery here, before they reach about 40, then it's back to the village and a hard-scrabble life for their remaining years.

Not just the bar girls, but the waitresses, shop clerks, hotel maids, all of them.

...Now, if you want to see many, really fine, Thai "pretties," just walk past the restaurants and bars catering to Japanese men.

Those girls are consistently adorable, and, often, very well-educated, too.

The quality is very much higher than what's available in the farang places.

The best of the lot are eager to work in the Japanese places, simply because Japanese pay more -- often far more -- than farangs.

As Thailand trends down, the prettiest and the smartest are following the money over to the Japanese side of town.

...Frankly, I like leftovers.

My TGF is one of those leftovers I described above, and I'm very happy with her ways of taking care of me, with her honesty and diligence and her loyalty.

Her skin is rather dark, she's not well-educated, and she's certainly not pretty.

But for an aging farang, it would be difficult to find a better woman.

As Thailand trends down, there will be more and more such high-quality leftovers available to farang men.

For us, it's going to be even more of a buyers market.

.

.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Mr_Dave

[Furbie]

Wow, thanks for letting me know that my highly educated, light skinned, never been married, has no children, comes from a good family, attractive to both Thais and westerners, Thai GF is a left over that no man Thai wants.

...Obviously, Furbie didn't read carefully, before dumping that emotional response.

...The thread topic is "Thailand Is Down".

BAF's comments are relevant:

The Thai women who "turn their backs" on the Thai men aren't the "pretty ones". They are, lookwise, the least desirable for Thai men's tastes and they are also the least desiderable as wives since they have, usually, already been married (guess what, to a Thai...) and with child(ren). Like it or not, farangs are usually picking up Thai men's leftovers, in Thailand.

...BAF's observations match everything I see here.

And, as Thailand continues to go down -- in various ways -- we will see more and more leftovers on offer.

...Living in Bangkok, and speaking enough Thai to carry on a conversation about such matters, it is easy for me to confirm that the Thai women working in the farang areas are, indeed, leftovers.

Going to work in a farang tourist area is, often, their last-chance on the down-ward slope of their lives.

If they don't win the lottery here, before they reach about 40, then it's back to the village and a hard-scrabble life for their remaining years.

Not just the bar girls, but the waitresses, shop clerks, hotel maids, all of them.

...Now, if you want to see many, really fine, Thai "pretties," just walk past the restaurants and bars catering to Japanese men.

Those girls are consistently adorable, and, often, very well-educated, too.

The quality is very much higher than what's available in the farang places.

The best of the lot are eager to work in the Japanese places, simply because Japanese pay more -- often far more -- than farangs.

As Thailand trends down, the prettiest and the smartest are following the money over to the Japanese side of town.

...Frankly, I like leftovers.

My TGF is one of those leftovers I described above, and I'm very happy with her ways of taking care of me, with her honesty and diligence and her loyalty.

Her skin is rather dark, she's not well-educated, and she's certainly not pretty.

But for an aging farang, it would be difficult to find a better woman.

As Thailand trends down, there will be more and more such high-quality leftovers available to farang men.

For us, it's going to be even more of a buyers market.

.

.

Maybe you can explain to me how I misread the thread. larvidchr made a comment about pretty Swedish girls going with Nigerians and turning their backs on the local men - an attempt at a humorous analogy.

BAF then took that comment and made a blanket statement that Thai women who "turn their backs on Thai" men are the least desirable and no Thai man would want them, and that we are left with the leftovers.

So, if both you and BAF are referring to the bar scene (which is what I think you mean by working in the farang area), good for you and have a nice day. However, I see no reference in BAF's post about a bar scene or a farang area. In fact, wait a minute, let me read it again, it looks to me as if, yes indeed, BAF also says that they are the least desirable as wives, and then goes on to describe his taste in women in general – which is for blondes.

This thread, in general, (as will often happen in a discussion) has taken on wider scope and now includes the economy, the general anti-farang feeling in Thailand, among other things. Or maybe I did not read everything carefully.

[aznyron]

I am no expert - but here is my half penny worth

A friend from Malta who before has come twice a year, this time says he is not coming again -- Pattaya dead.

Another went on a visa run to Cambodia -- people more friendly than Pattaya -- he is going there in future.

A very large Short Time Bar which before was always crowded with golfers in the afternoon -- for the last three weeks has only had three or four customers and many of the girls are saying they are going homeat the end of the month

Many rooms for rent which I cannot remember seeing in this area at theis time of year before.

A Thai owned food business -- the owner says they he is not getting the customers that he had before -- he reckons his takings down by 60% -- He wants to sell as he is unable to continue paying the rent -- Bars that four months agao were for sale at 3 million now priced at half than but still no buyers

aah, I hate to say I told you so but ........

The above comment mirrors what I've been saying (and getting flamed for) for months.

On the other hand, Cambodia and Vietnam's tourism industries are thriving, as is the inflow of foreign capital to their markets.

It's simple; Thailand has shot itself in the foot. It doesn't need Farangs?

As we know, once a place goes cold and your competitors pick up the ball and run with it (in this case VN,Cambo & Malaysia) it takes a very long time, if at all, to recover.

Told us what? That you can't hack it in Thailand? What do you think will happen in VN and Cambodia once the locals get fed up with the 'Ugly' Americans, Brits, Germans,Aussies, etc........the Cambodian smiles will disappear just as they have here in many places. There will come a day when expats will flock 'back' to Thailand because of the unfriendly Cambodian locals.......everything cycles. Meanwhile, I'll still be here.....in RURAL Thailand.....the real Thailand.

what makes you think all falongs as we are called hated by the native thai ?

just hear what I have to say the falong comes to thai. get involved with a lady supports her and her family as well as her children if she has any he does more for the thai family than the thai goverment does maybe it the goverment that want to put these people back to being rickshaw taxi drivers there is more home ownership now from poor thai girls then ever yes I think thai is shooting it self in the foot big time and I am one of those falongs who is very pissed off about the over valued thai baht I pray every nite that it crashes and burns to the extent we get 100 to 1 usd but I am not ready to exit just yet I am waiting to the end of 2007 before I make my decision

[aznyron]

"N the end, I think this downturn will be good news for Thailand. It will stabilize things and people will have a more realistic outlook! I think too many people were getting carried away - boomnig property prices, increased disposable income and spend, spend, spend.

But this was all based on debt!"

Is this cyclical then - this is exactly what some said after the 97 crash.

Seems lessons are not heeded although this is hardly like the 97 crash though.

Everything is cyclical, the question is merely how long and how deep the down cycle is.

One thing I keep my eye on is Thailand's 'anti-farang' temperature, which has been rising steadily over a number of years now. If things really go south, given the Thai's tendency towards seeking scapegoats and explosive temperament, well, TiT, anything can happen. Logic won't dictate events.

Try this just for fun, this is Sweeden suddenly being swamped by black Nigerians, who with their newfound oilwealth desides that Sweeden is the place to be, allmost all the pretty tall blonde girls turn their backs on the Sweedish men, all the beuatifull houses is being sold to Nigerians, the property prices get so high that the majority of Sweedes themselfes cant afford to invest in a home, the city centers change with lots of shops catering exclusivly for Nigerians, the Sweedish costums and culture is being trampeld on, not of malice but mostly by the Nigerians ignorance, if you want to make a living you have to bow and scrabe for the Nigerians, aso. aso.

No matter how well educated and friendly the Sweedes is by nature, I would bet that apart from the Sweedes that got rich because of the Nigerians the rest would pretty soon start to feel some sort of anomosity and anger toward the Nigerians.

I expect the Thais to treat me politely, as i treat them, and i expect that some Thais know that my being in Thailand is the basis of their income, but i do not expect the Thais to like me, I frankly think that would be asking to much in the present situation.

Regards,

good point well said

[aznyron]

If you think the replacement of westerners with the creeping shadow of China, represents no real change. Consider their historical appreciation of cultural subtleties, diversity, and human rights. It's not apples to apples.

My brother lived in Central China for 7 years. They are a little short on sunook.

You may think that, and I may, or may not agree with you. (I used to live in Mongolia where the Chinese are really hated)

But, I believe that the Thais like and respect the Chinese much more than the farangs. So to them it'd be a good change.

Correct me if I am wrong but it my understanding the chinese people own most of the business in thailand

[lannarebirth]

I am no expert - but here is my half penny worth

A friend from Malta who before has come twice a year, this time says he is not coming again -- Pattaya dead.

Another went on a visa run to Cambodia -- people more friendly than Pattaya -- he is going there in future.

A very large Short Time Bar which before was always crowded with golfers in the afternoon -- for the last three weeks has only had three or four customers and many of the girls are saying they are going homeat the end of the month

Many rooms for rent which I cannot remember seeing in this area at theis time of year before.

A Thai owned food business -- the owner says they he is not getting the customers that he had before -- he reckons his takings down by 60% -- He wants to sell as he is unable to continue paying the rent -- Bars that four months agao were for sale at 3 million now priced at half than but still no buyers

aah, I hate to say I told you so but ........

The above comment mirrors what I've been saying (and getting flamed for) for months.

On the other hand, Cambodia and Vietnam's tourism industries are thriving, as is the inflow of foreign capital to their markets.

It's simple; Thailand has shot itself in the foot. It doesn't need Farangs?

As we know, once a place goes cold and your competitors pick up the ball and run with it (in this case VN,Cambo & Malaysia) it takes a very long time, if at all, to recover.

Told us what? That you can't hack it in Thailand? What do you think will happen in VN and Cambodia once the locals get fed up with the 'Ugly' Americans, Brits, Germans,Aussies, etc........the Cambodian smiles will disappear just as they have here in many places. There will come a day when expats will flock 'back' to Thailand because of the unfriendly Cambodian locals.......everything cycles. Meanwhile, I'll still be here.....in RURAL Thailand.....the real Thailand.

what makes you think all falongs as we are called hated by the native thai ?

just hear what I have to say the falong comes to thai. get involved with a lady supports her and her family as well as her children if she has any he does more for the thai family than the thai goverment does maybe it the goverment that want to put these people back to being rickshaw taxi drivers there is more home ownership now from poor thai girls then ever yes I think thai is shooting it self in the foot big time and I am one of those falongs who is very pissed off about the over valued thai baht I pray every nite that it crashes and burns to the extent we get 100 to 1 usd but I am not ready to exit just yet I am waiting to the end of 2007 before I make my decision

I wouldn't plan my finances around praying for a currency devaluation. It may come, but may not be more than 10%-20%. What undoubtedly WILL come is a return to the low 20's:1 $USD at some point in the future. When, I can't say. Asian currencies will strengthen against other currencies over time. That's what I'm planning for anyway.

[canuckamuck]

If you think the replacement of westerners with the creeping shadow of China, represents no real change. Consider their historical appreciation of cultural subtleties, diversity, and human rights. It's not apples to apples.

My brother lived in Central China for 7 years. They are a little short on sunook.

You may think that, and I may, or may not agree with you. (I used to live in Mongolia where the Chinese are really hated)

But, I believe that the Thais like and respect the Chinese much more than the farangs. So to them it'd be a good change.

Correct me if I am wrong but it my understanding the chinese people own most of the business in thailand

Well they own the good ones anyway.

But the Thai citizen Chinese are a bit different than their nuevo riche brothers to the north.

[BAF]

Not everyone is running around with what you described. But thanks for promoting the stereotype.

Is English not your mother tongue (as in my case)?

I have NEVER said "EVERYONE", I wrote "usually".

And yes, it is a stereotype and unless you are suggesting that the majority of the westerners in Thailand associate with the types that you describe and not with the types I wrote about methinks you are not actually contesting that it holds true, are you?

Besides, you have totally missed the point as Mr Dave has without success tried to show you.

larvidchr was trying to justify the ever more evident Thai xenophobia and worsening attitude against westerners saying that would be also our (Swedes', in his example) reaction if foreigners (i.e. Nigerians) came to our countries and took, thanks to their relative wealth compared to us, "our" most pretty and desiderable women who would "turn their backs" on us pursuing the foreigners' dollars.

I just showed him that his argument and justification for Thais' behaviour is totally groundless since we are USUALLY NOT picking up the best and most desiderable of their women (in their eyes, at least), we are in fact USUALLY associating with the LEAST desirerable ones.

I am married to a Thai girl and I didn't feel the need to clarify my wife's background, why did you?

If I did, that could have been taken to mean (I s.crewed the English up here, right? ) that I was looking down on the average "mia farang" and her farang himself and this is NOT the case. I was merely reporting a FACT to prove larvidchr's argument wrong.

So, unless there is someone here still willing to argue that we are taking the most pretty and desiderable (to Thai eyes) women I think we can flush this argument with the rest of the groundless apologetic c.rap often posted by deaf and blind daydreamers on these boards to defend undefendable Thai xenophobia, classism, racism, discriminations, unfairness, ruthlessness and economic stupidity.

[Tim207]

From the above quote

"Although the figure for the first three months of 2007 is not yet official, Japanese tourist arrivals at Suvarnabhumi Airport were reported down by 7.93% to 95,759 from 100,028 at the same period last year. "

Does anyone know if these figures have become " official " or not?

Must be some abacus they have if so.

What I get out of that quote is the sense that the author or his source is mathmatically challenged. I sure hope nobody was foolish enough to put an OFFICIAL stamp on them.

[bingobongo]

Bomb 'may have been a warning'

The small bomb near the Major Ratchayothin shopping and entertainment centre late on Monday night could be a warning, Special Branch Police acting commander Maj-General Rapeepat Palawong said yesterday.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/11...al_30031646.php

[Furbie]

Not everyone is running around with what you described. But thanks for promoting the stereotype.

Is English not your mother tongue (as in my case)?

I have NEVER said "EVERYONE", I wrote "usually".

And yes, it is a stereotype and unless you are suggesting that the majority of the westerners in Thailand associate with the types that you describe and not with the types I wrote about methinks you are not actually contesting that it holds true, are you?

Besides, you have totally missed the point as Mr Dave has without success tried to show you.

larvidchr was trying to justify the ever more evident Thai xenophobia and worsening attitude against westerners saying that would be also our (Swedes', in his example) reaction if foreigners (i.e. Nigerians) came to our countries and took, thanks to their relative wealth compared to us, "our" most pretty and desiderable women who would "turn their backs" on us pursuing the foreigners' dollars.

I just showed him that his argument and justification for Thais' behaviour is totally groundless since we are USUALLY NOT picking up the best and most desiderable of their women (in their eyes, at least), we are in fact USUALLY associating with the LEAST desirerable ones.

I am married to a Thai girl and I didn't feel the need to clarify my wife's background, why did you?

If I did, that could have been taken to mean (I s.crewed the English up here, right? ) that I was looking down on the average "mia farang" and her farang himself and this is NOT the case. I was merely reporting a FACT to prove larvidchr's argument wrong.

So, unless there is someone here still willing to argue that we are taking the most pretty and desiderable (to Thai eyes) women I think we can flush this argument with the rest of the groundless apologetic c.rap often posted by deaf and blind daydreamers on these boards to defend undefendable Thai xenophobia, classism, racism, discriminations, unfairness, ruthlessness and economic stupidity.

OK, I misunderstood your point. Now that I get your point, your point about "cast offs" and no Thai man wanting them is inaccurate. Sadly, to shed light on why this is so, I must now turn this into a discussion about the local Thai nightlife scene, as the type of girl you are describing is far more populous in the Thai nightlife scene then in the Western one.

Here is the Thai nightlife industry you do need see in most of BKK or the major tourist areas – the scene that is below the surface (or right on top of the surface) in nearly every city/town in Thailand. As some may know, the local scene is far more vast then what you see in the major massage parlors in places like BK and Chiang Mai – where you are likely to find the light skinned beauties you referred to – but, this is a tiny percentage of the girls working in the local scene. True, places with light skinned girls are catering to a majority Asian clientele and they prefer this, be they local Thais or overseas visitors – but these people are a fairly well off clientele. You may have noticed that there are millions of Thai men who make a fairly meager living. The group of people you are missing, which again is the overwhelming majority of Thais involved in the sex industry, are at the more local establishments, which are almost completely populated by darker skinned girls, generally from the Isaan region. And just like you described, many are supporting kids as a result of a failed marriage.

I have worked with a number of Thais and have traveled to many areas of Thailand on business and been dragged to more karaoke and local bars than I can remember – in many cases you as a Western foreigner would not know they were there, and would be even less likely to step inside if you did. These places have girls that are exactly like the ones you see walking around and working in the Western oriented bars – why, because most Thai girls are darker skinned, that is why white skin is more prized. Amazingly, everything westerners complain about in the western scene goes on to some extent in these more local establishments. Bill padding, rip-offs, guys falling for the girls, money being sent, girls being set up as mia nois, multiple sponsors, etc., etc., etc. You may not see a sin sot scam, but everything else is there, happening with these "cast offs" as you call them.

The sooner you realize that the scene you see in Thailand is tiny (including the lighter skinned girls), the sooner you realize that we did not invest prostitution in Thailand, we do not do anything not being done before in Thailand, with the exception of braking class taboos, and in fact, we barely add to it in Thailand.

No one would blink if a taxi driver married a karaoke girl, in fact, it is normal to see. What the Thais can't get is why someone with resources to do better would publicly mingle with someone deemed of lower status. Don't kid yourself, the "cast offs" you described are far more prevalent with the Thai men who you say don't want them – this is the norm.

As a final note, the girl I mentioned in my post is not my wife, she is my GF. Why did I bring up her background - maybe I am tired of people thinking a Thai girl is a hooker just because she is with a Western man. You may not believe that, but that is the sense I took away from your previous post – sorry if I misunderstood.

[Heng]

If you think the replacement of westerners with the creeping shadow of China, represents no real change. Consider their historical appreciation of cultural subtleties, diversity, and human rights. It's not apples to apples.

My brother lived in Central China for 7 years. They are a little short on sunook.

You may think that, and I may, or may not agree with you. (I used to live in Mongolia where the Chinese are really hated)

But, I believe that the Thais like and respect the Chinese much more than the farangs. So to them it'd be a good change.

Correct me if I am wrong but it my understanding the chinese people own most of the business in thailand

No, not ALL businesses. The Thai-Chinese have yet to consolidate their hold on the barbershop industry. For some reason it's a profession that old school Chinese immigrants stayed away from... the newer generation though are beginning to make inroads.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Heng

[BAF]

OK, I misunderstood your point. Now that I get your point, your point about "cast offs" and no Thai man wanting them is inaccurate.

What you say afterwards about the Thai nightlife is mostly accurate but what you are still getting wrong is the meaning of your (not my literal words) "no Thai man wanting them". They DO "PLAY" with them (especially when they are all they can afford, as is the average Thai's case) but they definitely do not marry previously married ex bargirls with children with the regularity and the "naturalness" the farangs do...

What the Thais can't get is why someone with resources to do better would publicly mingle with someone deemed of lower status.

This is exactly my point. If the average Thai had the resources of the average farang he wouldn't associate with the type of woman the average farang does because they are not the most desiderable ones.

This is to be taken in its broadest acception than "just previously married ex bargirls with children" and this is why I hadn't specifically mentioned the nightlife and the bar scene.

As a final note, the girl I mentioned in my post is not my wife, she is my GF. Why did I bring up her background - maybe I am tired of people thinking a Thai girl is a hooker just because she is with a Western man. You may not believe that, but that is the sense I took away from your previous post – sorry if I misunderstood.

This comes from a (true) stereotype and there is very little you can do about it except "taking it the Thai way" (if you believe in the Thai ways...): "mai pen rai", "jai yen-yen" and the rest of this c.rap.

I and my wife had to endure it as well wherever we were in Thailand and we have been able to forget about it only once we moved to my homecountry (Italy).

Here no one would dare to think of a young couple of 20-something y.o., both reasonably looking, well educated, well dressed and well behaved as a customer/hooker couple just because of the different ethnic background as most of the Asians (and certainly most of the Thais) NORMALLY do.

This is just another aspect of the wonderfully friendly, smiling, loving, caring Thai culture and society that you can appreciate and immerse yourself in in the Land of Smiles. Enjoy.

Edited April 11, 2007 by BAF

[opebo]

Dark skinned Isaan girls with exotic Isaan faces and taught, slim Isaan bodies are by far the hottest girls in Thailand. My personal favorite are girls from Surin, and also I like the tallish slim lanky ones.

There is no reason to buy into the easthetic of a benighted local elite - it simply has no meaning to the outsider from the big world.

[BAF]

Dark skinned Isaan girls with exotic Isaan faces and taught, slim Isaan bodies are by far the hottest girls in Thailand.

Yes, definitely...

...for you and (it seems) the majority of others here.

We are talking personal tastes here. Unlike the Thais, we are not so heavily conditioned into conforming to some standard notion of beauty (which is, to boot, of a highly racist, classist and discriminating origin).

I for myself don't like dark skin and don't like the facial and other features displayed by many of the Thai ethnic groups.

For example, a huge turn off are, for me, the splayed toes of most upcountry folks. I don't have any foot feticism and feet don't play any particular role in my sexual activities, I just find splayed toes very ugly.

There is no reason to buy into the easthetic of a benighted local elite

WHO SAID WE SHOULD?

- it simply has no meaning to the outsider from the big world.

True but it definitely has many, and often very deep and unpleasent, implications in the "Land Of Smiles"...

[KhunMarco]

You seem to forget that Italy(you are from Italy right?) was very similar 50 years ago, people from south Italy are still called Marocchini (people for Morocco), or terroni (Farmers) in a offensive way.

This is a developing country ,plus LOS is a very close culture and that comes with pros and cons.

[Heng]

"You see, hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Moors conquered Sicily.... "

[KhunMarco]

"You see, hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Moors conquered Sicily.... "

Yup that's true, and then there's been an invasion from Normanni (northmen? ) so today you can find some gorgeous dark skinned girl with blue eyes...whoohoo!!

[BAF]

You seem to forget that Italy(you are from Italy right?) was very similar 50 years ago,

Yes I'm Italian, now care to tell me what makes you think I'm forgetting anything?

people from south Italy are still called Marocchini (people for Morocco), or terroni (Farmers) in a offensive way.

Never heard about southerners being called marocchini (guess it happens somewhere) while it's true about terroni just as it's true about northerners being called polentoni (polenta eaters or "polenta-men")...

SO WHAT?

Try in Italy to discriminate (for example in the work environment) against a dark skinned Thai or call him (or a dark skinned siciliano) a marocchino or a terrone and you will not only face the consequences of breaking the "general" laws regarding discriminations and verbal abuse but your legal position will actually be worsened by the fact that you have attacked an ethnic minority (there are specific laws protecting foreigners and any other kind of "minority" which make the penalties heavier if the same crime is committed against a minority, the same applies to any other western country I know of).

Then try to bribe the police force or the judicial system to win your case against the foreigner.

Then tell me how the media, if involved, present the fact.

Then tell me how the public opinion reacts to the fact.

Compare all of the above to the Land Of Smiles and tell me what are you trying to demonstrate.

This is a developing country ,plus LOS is a very close culture and that comes with pros and cons.

I know it all too well. I am talking about the cons.

Besides, if this wasn't a Thai based board I could just as well be talking for hours about Italy's or Western Europe's shortcomings.

And BTW I regard the kind of blind nationalism and (usually groundless) proudness of one's own country shown by Thais and many other people almost everywhere as sheer stupidity and ignorance.

You can't choose your homecountry but if you are lucky you can choose your "adopted" country and I for one, having extensively traveled and lived around the world, have found the United States of America the greatest country on earth and all going as planned will move back there in 2.5 years. Both countries don't require me to give up a citizenship to take the other but, if it was the case, I would gladly give up my Italian citizenship to become a US citizen.

And for those America-hating bashers, spare me the crap of pointing out to me the USA's many shortcoming, I'm well aware of them so if you like to see it this way, the USA are the "least bad country on earth".

Thailand (and anywhere else outside of the Western world) is nothing else than a (dangerous) playground, it isn't a place where the values and principles in which I believe are normally taught, believed, shared, practiced or even understood...

If/when the world will be ruled by non western powers and western values and principles (and the laws, the social structure and way of life that come with them) which we take for granted and which we regard as universal and universally shared will not be backed up anymore by economic and military power many daydreamers out there will have a harsh waking up. I hope not to be there anymore and live through it.

[BAF]

"You see, hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Moors conquered Sicily.... "

Yes, between the IX and XI sec.

I guess it was kind of a payback for the hundreds of years (about 600) of Roman rule they had been under...

Edited April 12, 2007 by BAF

[Mid]

Consumer confidence dips for 5th straight month - Mar.

Thai consumers' confidence index fell in March for a fifth consecutive month, due mainly to political uncertainty and the strong baht.

The Nation

tell me again how every thing is rosy ,

please .......................

formatting edit

Edited April 12, 2007 by Mid