Poland could exit EU over judicial reform clash - top Polish court

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Hannuman said:

What an original idea ! They could even use the term 'Benelux Zollverein '

Just 99 years too late . The concept was initiated shortly after WW1 ,though not implemented on the grander scale until post WW2 . Did you never buy Benelux derailleurs and similar components for your Claude Butler, Dawes,Viking, Holdsworth ,etc in the 1950's ? 

No sir, I had a BSA bicycle with a 3 speed Sturmey Archer. Not in the 50s though - I am not that old!

[CNXexpat]

Poland takes so much money (billions every year) from the EU but is not willing to play according to their rules. Since years. It´s not a loss if they leave.

[Redline]

Firing judges for not agreeing is eliminating the judicial ????

[khunken]

So an ongoing spat with Poland over lack of legal independence means that the EU is imploding? So some of the hard Brexit 'experts' continue their wishful thinking that the UK leaving means the end of civilisation on the continent. Dammit they even speak foreign languages there.

 

The little englander mentality is more likely to cause the UK to implode with both the Scots & Northern Irish both voicing their disapproval of London's rule.

 

[candide]

Sorry to break Brexiters' fantasy...

"The poll found that even supporters of the Eurosceptic ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party are largely in favour of Poland's EU membership, with 90% supporting it"

https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/16/polish-support-for-eu-booming-despite-clashes-with-brussels

 

The Poles will never leave a Union (1) that gives them money and jobs, and (2) which shields them from Russian influence.

 

 

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Sorry to break Brexiters' fantasy...

"The poll found that even supporters of the Eurosceptic ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party are largely in favour of Poland's EU membership, with 90% supporting it"

https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/16/polish-support-for-eu-booming-despite-clashes-with-brussels

 

The Poles will never leave a Union (1) that gives them money and jobs, and (2) which shields them from Russian influence.

 

 

Party pooper!

and they were having such a good time wallowing in conformational bias.

[melvinmelvin]

6 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Arguably preferable to being bullied by a bunch unelected EU bureaucrats working to a globalist agenda.

 

is there any civilised country on this planet that has elected bureaucrats?

 

[melvinmelvin]

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Great idea. Kind of like the EU but no common army, no industrial scale forced 3rd world immigration, no silly bendy banana rules and metric weight adoption, just a simple and benevolent trading bloc. Genius!

 

metric weight adoption was sorted by the foggy islands without any outside assistance

 

 

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Kind of like the EU but no common army,

no industrial scale forced 3rd world immigration,

no silly bendy banana rules and

metric weight adoption,

just a simple and benevolent trading bloc. Genius!

Again a Brit, who does not have the faintest idea abotu reality.

a) there IS NO EU ARMY, even not a cooperation in purchase. So every EU member states buys its own

b) which FORCED 3rd world immigration ? Oh wait, just as before WO2... you simply sent fugitives back to their death 

c) every tradeneeds it own standards. And of course, sub standard items can be sold, see for instance Lidl with its "off standard" vegetables and fruits program.

d) back to the Middle Ages, (before the French around 1790 adapted a real standard, followed by the rest of continental Europe): length: 2 chain, 5 yards, 3 feet and 2 inches...  or weight: 4 stones + 5 pebbles. Volume: 2 gallons, 3 pints and 3 gills… see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units

[URMySunshine]

58 minutes ago, Redline said:

Firing judges for not agreeing is eliminating the judicial ????

Gina Miller would no doubt be up in arms at the effrontery !

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Arguably preferable to being bullied by a bunch unelected EU bureaucrats working to a globalist agenda.

When are you finally going to read how the EU works ?

Are civil servants in the UK elected ? or the Director of the BBC, the Bank of London  ( or Scotland), the representative in teh UN, WTO, etc.

Even the members of the House of Lords in the UK are appointed and not elected !

 

In the UK, you can get a [position as minister, because you are as loyal as a dog to teh leader of the party AND.. got at least one vote more as the competition in your barony: Threehouses plus a Barn upon Trent. Any skill not required.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Unfortunately the EU itself isn't democratic. 

TThe EU is a UNION of Nations, in which 3 decission bodies exist:

a) EU council, consisting of the ehads of gevernment of each member satate

b) EU Commission, a kind of ministers, from each EU one

c) EU Parliament, from each EU member states, e.g. 75 from the UK.

 

Compare that with the House of Lords in the UK.

[melvinmelvin]

31 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Again a Brit, who does not have the faintest idea abotu reality.

a) there IS NO EU ARMY, even not a cooperation in purchase. So every EU member states buys its own

b) which FORCED 3rd world immigration ? Oh wait, just as before WO2... you simply sent fugitives back to their death 

c) every tradeneeds it own standards. And of course, sub standard items can be sold, see for instance Lidl with its "off standard" vegetables and fruits program.

d) back to the Middle Ages, (before the French around 1790 adapted a real standard, followed by the rest of continental Europe): length: 2 chain, 5 yards, 3 feet and 2 inches...  or weight: 4 stones + 5 pebbles. Volume: 2 gallons, 3 pints and 3 gills… see  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units

 

I think the chap you are arguing with is from the very old Britain-bit on the other side of the pond.

 

re measures, I favour gills

 

[White Christmas13]

8 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

So would that be  like  encouraging the  big guys to go back to  bullying the little  guys and  jumping on their  school lunch? Benevolence in the sandpit ?

what you expect from a Trump supporter

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

Agreed.

There is a sad and desperate attempt by brexiteers to turn this into an "EU stole our sovereignty" issue. You would have to be terminally brain dead to buy this complete distortion.

 

We are talking about countries which try to silence the judiciary in order to have what is essentially a dictatorship (Boris plans to do the same, and the US already have a bent politicised Supreme Court in place). Furthermore Poland is ruled by a Neo-facist party with strong support from the Catholic Church, a bit like Ireland was for a long time (The religious bit anyway).  Iran has little to teach us in the west about Theocracy, watch the evangelicals licking Trumps jackboots.

 

The EU has simply said that to be part of the EU, you should be a democracy, why is that unreasonable.

Such high drama about of a few old boys that don't want an early pension. Maybe they are making quite a bit on the side and don't want the gravy to dry up just yet.

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Interesting point.

 

If you read about how the EU operates, in theory, national sovereign state laws are not and cannot be overruled by EU law or an EU court per-se. 

 

So the way the Brussels bureaucrats get around it is the threaten sanctions for non compliance with the EU "recommendations". Linking compliance in this case to grants from the EU budget. Do as we say or no cash for you - pretty straight forward coercion and blackmail!

 

Should the new EU leader get her way, and get the EU Army, centralized financial budgets and accounting, those national laws may become even more threatened. Money supply could be turned off; force could be used. Countries outside the Euro will have to adopt it under the centralized budget.

 

Poland, Hungary and a few others might want to remember it's not so long ago they through off a previous yoke.

Boxer, have a look at this:

 

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM%3Al14548

 

Hit the internal links to primary and secondary law and have a quick look at those too.

 

After that just give this post a "like".... and I will forgive you. ????

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, Hannuman said:

What an original idea ! They could even use the term 'Benelux Zollverein '

Just 99 years too late . The concept was initiated shortly after WW1 ,though not implemented on the grander scale until post WW2 . Did you never buy Benelux derailleurs and similar components for your Claude Butler, Dawes,Viking, Holdsworth ,etc in the 1950's ? 

How about: "The Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club"?

[melvinmelvin]

8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Interesting point.

 

If you read about how the EU operates, in theory, national sovereign state laws are not and cannot be overruled by EU law or an EU court per-se. 

 

So the way the Brussels bureaucrats get around it is the threaten sanctions for non compliance with the EU "recommendations". Linking compliance in this case to grants from the EU budget. Do as we say or no cash for you - pretty straight forward coercion and blackmail!

 

Should the new EU leader get her way, and get the EU Army, centralized financial budgets and accounting, those national laws may become even more threatened. Money supply could be turned off; force could be used. Countries outside the Euro will have to adopt it under the centralized budget.

 

Poland, Hungary and a few others might want to remember it's not so long ago they through off a previous yoke.

it is not that clean cut,

to your first paragraph, note that the member states has undertaken to maintain its "lawbook" in such a way that it

is compatible with EU legislation at all times

also, CEC now has legal authority to go after legal personalities in the member state, ie companies and lads and lasses

 

what you describe as pressure, isn't that pretty much the American way?

either you do as DC fancies or there ain't gonna be no federal dough for Xmas

 

 

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, puck2 said:

"unelected" ???

Before you write such a nonsense, try to inform yourself about the institution/system "EU".

To help you:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union#European_Parliament

 

In contrast to the 3rd-world country system of GB and USA  in the EU there is no (undemocratic) majority voting system, but a proportional representation. !

 

And you try to defend the undemocratic and racist policy of the PIS(s) Party of Poland?  555 .

 

The ruling Polish nationalists "bully" the EU, not vice versa, although taking out the biggest part of money distributed by the EU to Poland for infrastructure and agriculture. Between 2014 and 2020 Poland receives 115 billions (I repeat: billion) Euros from the EU. 

 

Do you ever think they would like to leave the EU? Go on dreaming.

 

And to put a little bit of knowledge in the small brains of some "English EU-experts": If Poland acts against the (democratic)  EU law, it only can be punished by money support - aching very much for the biggest EU-money-receiver -, but cannot be excluded by the EU. If Poland would like to leave the EU, it must do it by itself - like GB.

Well if the UK stops contributions and the EU stops sending Poland money, then that will be the easiest way to be solve their (EU) budget problems (for a while). But might Poland decide to join the Tappers 'n Shunters in the meantime? Stay tuned.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, puck2 said:

 My I correct you: (although in German language it's easy to understand which country pays into the EU budget(red) and which country receives EU-money(yellow).

The German word Milliarden is "billions" in English language.

 

from 2018

If that is supposed to be net contributions on the left, it's wrong.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, JAG said:

No sir, I had a BSA bicycle with a 3 speed Sturmey Archer. Not in the 50s though - I am not that old!

Sturmey Archer. Blimey! Respect man!

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, candide said:

Sorry to break Brexiters' fantasy...

"The poll found that even supporters of the Eurosceptic ruling Law and Justice (PiS) party are largely in favour of Poland's EU membership, with 90% supporting it"

https://www.euronews.com/2019/05/16/polish-support-for-eu-booming-despite-clashes-with-brussels

 

The Poles will never leave a Union (1) that gives them money and jobs, and (2) which shields them from Russian influence.

 

 

Agree. Actually it was some of the remainers fantasising about Poland actually leaving. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

metric weight adoption was sorted by the foggy islands without any outside assistance

 

 

Thanks. ????

[Krataiboy]

8 hours ago, puck2 said:

"unelected" ???

Before you write such a nonsense, try to inform yourself about the institution/system "EU".

To help you:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union#European_Parliament

 

In contrast to the 3rd-world country system of GB and USA  in the EU there is no (undemocratic) majority voting system, but a proportional representation. !

 

And you try to defend the undemocratic and racist policy of the PIS(s) Party of Poland?  555 .

 

The ruling Polish nationalists "bully" the EU, not vice versa, although taking out the biggest part of money distributed by the EU to Poland for infrastructure and agriculture. Between 2014 and 2020 Poland receives 115 billions (I repeat: billion) Euros from the EU. 

 

Do you ever think they would like to leave the EU? Go on dreaming.

 

And to put a little bit of knowledge in the small brains of some "English EU-experts": If Poland acts against the (democratic)  EU law, it only can be punished by money support - aching very much for the biggest EU-money-receiver -, but cannot be excluded by the EU. If Poland would like to leave the EU, it must do it by itself - like GB.

You seem, conveniently, to have overlooked a more relevant Wikipedia entry which deals specifically with the EU's perceived "democratic deficit".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_legitimacy_of_the_European_Union

 

No matter. As we are finally about to escape from the EU's autocratic clutches, the subject has become academic.

 

Regaining our national sovereignty should give us all additional cause for celebration this Christmas.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, puipuitom said:

When are you finally going to read how the EU works ?

Are civil servants in the UK elected ? or the Director of the BBC, the Bank of London  ( or Scotland), the representative in teh UN, WTO, etc.

Even the members of the House of Lords in the UK are appointed and not elected !

 

In the UK, you can get a [position as minister, because you are as loyal as a dog to teh leader of the party AND.. got at least one vote more as the competition in your barony: Threehouses plus a Barn upon Trent. Any skill not required.

I am well aware of "how the EU works". So, mercifully, were the majority of my fellow Brits who voted to give the Brussels bureaucrats the boot.

 

Regaining our sovereignty and control of our destiny will give us something extra to celebrate this festive season. 

 

Bottoms up, Boris!

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, webfact said:

"Contradictions between Polish law and EU law

Been saying it a long time during UK brexit but no-one can believe it EU is on it's way out, good on the Poles get out now.

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

The EU, as it is now called, is collapsing from the inside. Good riddance to a bunch of lying, cheating Brussels bureaucrats.

Happy, the UK politicians are Always 100% correct, true and never lie at all. Escpaecially the present PM is as honoust as gold... 

Also all UK politicians are elected ( only HoL not), and also all civil servants are elected ( of course.. the person with one vote more as the competition gets the seat ). Bureaucracy does NOT exist in the UK. Ask those originated from the Caribeans, who were thrown out of the UK after sometimes 40 years.

[puipuitom]

The Polish are not so stupid as the British ( oh.. sorry, the English) to leave the EU, see THE ECONOMIC AND FISCAL IMPACT OF BREXIT  of the British National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR)  

 

file:///C:/Docs%2013%20mei%202017%20map/Docs%20%202015%20map/Docs%20folder/cartoons%20%20map/Brexit%20%20map/NIESR%20Election%20Briefing%20-%20The%20Economic%20and%20Fiscal%20Impact%20of%20Brexit%20-%20FINAL.pdf 

[puck2]

12 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

You seem, conveniently, to have overlooked a more relevant Wikipedia entry which deals specifically with the EU's perceived "democratic deficit".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_legitimacy_of_the_European_Union

 

No matter. As we are finally about to escape from the EU's autocratic clutches, the subject has become academic.

 

Regaining our national sovereignty should give us all additional cause for celebration this Christmas.

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "democratic deficit", you are referring to, is only a small paragraph of the Wiki text. When reading this text you automatically think of (juristic) nitpickers. Such a complicated association of states cannot be free of some irrelevant flaws.

 

But compared with the EU, the Brexit-land has a much stronger deficit, a completely undemocratic election system. If the Labour Party wins all 650 constituencies - each by 1 vote - you have 650 LP-members in your parliament, and none of the other parties. People with some brain in their heads name it  "democratic deficit"  !

 

Good luck with your national sovereignty. For the PiS in Poland the economic advantage seems to be more important than "losing sovereignty", as you name it.

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, puck2 said:

 

The "democratic deficit", you are referring to, is only a small paragraph of the Wiki text. When reading this text you automatically think of (juristic) nitpickers. Such a complicated association of states cannot be free of some irrelevant flaws.

 

But compared with the EU, the Brexit-land has a much stronger deficit, a completely undemocratic election system. If the Labour Party wins all 650 constituencies - each by 1 vote - you have 650 LP-members in your parliament, and none of the other parties. People with some brain in their heads name it  "democratic deficit"  !

 

Good luck with your national sovereignty. For the PiS in Poland the economic advantage seems to be more important than "losing sovereignty", as you name it.

Once we are out of the EU's grasp we will be free to change our first-past-the-post electoral system, if this is the democratic will of the British people. 

 

It's just one of the many perks of taking back control.