Now is your chance to leave!!

[Ventenio]

I'll revisit this post in six months.

 

The pollution has started, and all my Thai friends are convinced this will be the worst year ever.  They see it in their villages, and they know last year's massive problem won't turn on a dime.   It's your health, which is oddly not very important when compared to cheap noodles and bar girls and ....

 

Listen, I was once there..... "Oh, it's not that bad."  "Oh, it will get better next week."  "Oh, I feel fine."  "Oh, I"ll leave next year if it stays bad......."  And then in June you are still alive and enjoy a few months of clean air.

 

You saved your money, worked for years, people care about your health.....and if you stay I can almost guarantee your health will be worse in six months and this problem is not easily reversed.   Plus who wants to live in a self-imposed prison.  

 

I'm talking about the air we breathe.  you don't escape that.  

 

Anyhow, now's the time to pack up.   I'm sure many will suffer and only in 10-years feel the deep regret.   

 

I get it.... we told everyone CM was paradise!!!  The best ever!!!  And we moved here and stayed, so why admit "defeat".  It's not defeat.  It's OK to put your health above your pride.  But only a dead person who not understand the importance of harmful air.  

 

Good luck all.  

Edited December 28, 2019 by Ventenio

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

CM area this morning:

 

[sammieuk1]

Unfortunately the £ dictates above all other ????

[dcnx]

It’s only 200 today. What’s the problem? Why wouldn’t I want to live in one if the most toxic cities on the planet? Pollution coupled with friendly immigration makes me want to grow old and die here.
 

This place is paradise.

[cerox]

5555

[billd766]

quote "I get it.... we told everyone CM was paradise!!!  The best ever!!!  And we moved here and stayed, so why admit "defeat".  It's not defeat.  It's OK to put your health above your pride.  But only a dead person who not understand the importance of harmful air."

 

Where do you get the communal WE from? The majority of expats don't live in CM. They are spread out across the whole of Thailand.

 

I don't seem to have that problem down in rural Khampaeng Phet, and there are quite a few expats scattered around the province.

[dcnx]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I don't seem to have that problem down in rural Khampaeng Phet

Yea, you’re only surrounded by fire and other readings of 150+. Nothing to be concerned about.

[Don Chance]

No way i would live in CM or BKK.  Krabi or south would be best.

 

I get a metallic taste in my mouth, feel bad, tight chest when it gets over 100 pm.

[donnacha]

Last year, studying the stats, I came to the conclusion that no one with options should stay in Chiang Mai for any part of the first half of the year. My rough rule of thumb was to get out in the first week or two after New Year, as soon as flight prices came down from their peak levels.

I considered January to be especially dangerous precisely because it does not seem to be so bad, people don't realize that the pollution you can see is not a reliable indicator of the most dangerous type of particles.

When I landed here in late November this year, I was dismayed at my first breath as I stepped off the plane: it was instantly clear that the air was already at the level I would associate with January. I remember thinking "Wow, if the smog season has now spread into the high season, that's a bullet to the head of tourism here".

I stuck to my plan of leaving in January, and will be gone in a few days, but I already have the tight chest and feeling of tiredness I had during the one year I stupidly stayed here during the smog season. Perhaps this is just a particularly bad year, an aberration, and things will return to the "normal" January-June smog season.

I have a horrible hunch, however, that this is the new normal, and Chiang Mai, a city I love, has become uninhabitable throughout most of the year.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by donnacha

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, hyku1147 said:

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....????

 

 

And I used to like Swedish girls !   LOL

[OneZero]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

And I used to like Swedish girls !   LOL

Ya, a bit too much over the top with the "How Dare You..." dramatic acting for affect.

My take on her, despite the fact I am disgusted by CM's bad air getting longer & longer.

She & Folkguitar should get together to exchange notes.  Now there is a match.

Edited December 28, 2019 by OneZero

[mikey88]

Why do you care if people stay. What axe are you grinding.

Go if you want.

See you...!

I’ll obviously make up my own mind.

[donnacha]

23 minutes ago, OneZero said:

My take on her, despite the fact I am disgusted by CM's bad air getting longer & longer.

Actually, the solutions being pushed by the governments and corporations who have commandeered the religion of climate change prevent the resolution of problems such as air pollution that are having a real, immediate impact on people's lives today.

Governments are thrilled to have a PR friendly excuse to place more taxes on new vehicles, but this keeps older vehicles on the roads for longer.

Restrictions on development, especially in less developed countries, suppress rising incomes, the one thing we know makes people more environmentally aware in their own communities - they reckon that people start to think more about stuff such as not burning plastics in their yards once their incomes rise to around USD $4K per year.

If you list the problems facing humanity in order of solvability / biggest bang for your buck, climate change is not even in the Top 20 of things we should be thinking about or committing resources too.

However, that does not play well with rich suburban moms in America because none of those Top 20 problems will ever affect their children.

More importantly, solving those other problems would require spending money, whereas ordering developing countries that halt or slow down their industrialization prevents competition and hands an immediate advantage to corporations in the developed world.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by donnacha

[donnacha]

5 minutes ago, mikey88 said:

Why do you care if people stay. What axe are you grinding.

Go if you want.

See you...!

Yeah! How dare he take the time to lay out a reasoned and thoughtful argument that attempts to snap people out of the delusions surrounding their massive bet on life in Chiang Mai!

 

[amexpat]

2 minutes ago, donnacha said:

If you list the problems facing humanity in order of solvability / biggest bang for your buck, climate change is not even in the Top 20 of things we should be thinking about or committing resources to

However, if you list them in order of necessity for the survival of civilization it is a distant first. 

[donnacha]

29 minutes ago, amexpat said:

However, if you list them in order of necessity for the survival of civilization it is a distant first.

Solvability is important. Do any of the measures being proposed actually have any impact on climate change?

Or are they simply harsh measures that solve an entirely different problem i.e. the profitability of Western corporations and the ability of governments to levy even more taxes on their already over-taxed populations?

Banning all car and air travel would reduce carbon emissions by less than 1%. Natural geothermal emissions (things like volcanic gasses) account for 80% of carbon.

Look, I'm not saying that an economic system based upon ever growing consumption is in any way sustainable, and I might even be onboard if anyone proposes a radical plan that actually tackles the supposed problem.

What you have at the moment, however, is a cabal of vested interests using climate change in the same way they have always used wars in the past, as a convenient baton with which to make populations cohere around measures that actually have nothing to do with their real problems.


 

Edited December 28, 2019 by donnacha

[Bassosa]

I'm already working towards an exit, hopefully with girlfriend.

Don't want to deal with it anymore.

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, OneZero said:

Ya, a bit too much over the top with the "How Dare You..." dramatic acting for affect.

My take on her, despite the fact I am disgusted by CM's bad air getting longer & longer.

She & Folkguitar should get together to exchange notes.  Now there is a match.

 

I'm really sorry that you can't enjoy your life here. But I'm not sorry that I can.

If you don't like it, leave. If you can't leave, at least stop moaning to us. We know you're unhappy. No need to constantly remind us. Most people don't care that you're unhappy.

 

51 minutes ago, mikey88 said:

Why do you care if people stay. What axe are you grinding.

Go if you want.

See you...!

 

Perhaps it's a matter of 'I don't like it, so no one should.'

How many hundreds of posts do we see every year telling us just how unhappy people are, and how anyone who stays is deluded... about something... They never quite say just 'what' it is about which we're deluded.

As I've said many times before, if you're not happy here, leave. If you can't leave, for what ever reason, Why continue this constant complaining. It solves nothing.

 

The stress that you put yourselves under, recording the numbers, charting exactly which part of the city has the worst air... It makes no sense!  That stress will kill you faster than the bad air. If you really want stats, look at the stats about 'Stress-related illnesses vs Air Pollution related illnesses.'  It's like having a hangnail, and constantly pulling on it to see if it still hurts. Pulling it isn't going to change anything. It just gives you pain.  Let go.

 

Those of us who choose to stay (even if we can afford to leave, have no ties holding us here, have plenty of places we could go if we wanted to go, ) would certainly prefer year-round clean air, but it's not. 

We don't mind. 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, dcnx said:

Yea, you’re only surrounded by fire and other readings of 150+. Nothing to be concerned about.

Out of curiosity what is the scale of the map you used? Probably the nearest on to me is the bottom hot spot and I have no idea where that would be other than the Mae Wong national park. It is 894 sq/km in area so where am I surrounded?

 

To give you some idea of scale Khampaeng Phet is 65 km to the north, Tak is about 110 km I think, Mae Sot (showing 157) is 180 km, Sukothai is over 100 km, so where am I surrounded?

[Puchaiyank]

Thailand is falling like a rock...Chiang Mai especially...among best places to visit and retire...

[Lacessit]

Yes, it is a problem. However, there are always options in dealing with them. Leaving is one option. Staying with equipment that protects your health is another.

IMO Chiang Mai is not unique - most of SE Asia seems to be affected at one time or another.

[Pravda]

32 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Out of curiosity what is the scale of the map you used? Probably the nearest on to me is the bottom hot spot and I have no idea where that would be other than the Mae Wong national park. It is 894 sq/km in area so where am I surrounded?

 

To give you some idea of scale Khampaeng Phet is 65 km to the north, Tak is about 110 km I think, Mae Sot (showing 157) is 180 km, Sukothai is over 100 km, so where am I surrounded?

 

Yea. Nothing worry. I'm sure those cartoonish red dots are just to scare people like u and me. Call me conspiracy theorist, but I bet Al Gore put them there. You're in the green bro. Good 2 go

[Nakmuay887]

6 hours ago, dcnx said:

Yea, you’re only surrounded by fire and other readings of 150+. Nothing to be concerned about.

this made me laugh far, far harder than it should. thank you. seriously, I don't know why I found it so funny!

[daveAustin]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

quote "I get it.... we told everyone CM was paradise!!!  The best ever!!!  And we moved here and stayed, so why admit "defeat".  It's not defeat.  It's OK to put your health above your pride.  But only a dead person who not understand the importance of harmful air."

 

Where do you get the communal WE from? The majority of expats don't live in CM. They are spread out across the whole of Thailand.

 

I don't seem to have that problem down in rural Khampaeng Phet, and there are quite a few expats scattered around the province.

It's the CM forum, dude. 

[daveAustin]

3 hours ago, donnacha said:

Banning all car and air travel would reduce carbon emissions by less than 1%. Natural geothermal emissions (things like volcanic gasses) account for 80% of carbon.

I'm no expert, but would posit you might have your figures mixed up here. Volcanic release would surely be minimal as they are fleeting and few and far between compared with the sustained emissions from billions of people and ever-burgeoning industry. The issue in CM is all people. 

[madmen]

7 hours ago, Don Chance said:

No way i would live in CM or BKK.  Krabi or south would be best.

 

I get a metallic taste in my mouth, feel bad, tight chest when it gets over 100 pm.

You may have serious underlying health issues. please don't ignore this..a bad heart or undetected respiratory problems present themselves in the same manner. Nodody I know in bkk has any issues like yours. Get tested mate

[CNXexpat]

Not so many places in Thailand from Bangkok to north with healthy air. Screenshot from 1 minute ago.

 

Da Nang in Vietnam is a good place to live, I´ve heard. One reason today is the good air.

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by CNXexpat

[hmficc]

8 hours ago, donnacha said:

Actually, the solutions being pushed by the governments and corporations who have commandeered the religion of climate change prevent the resolution of problems such as air pollution that are having a real, immediate impact on people's lives today.

Governments are thrilled to have a PR friendly excuse to place more taxes on new vehicles, but this keeps older vehicles on the roads for longer.

Restrictions on development, especially in less developed countries, suppress rising incomes, the one thing we know makes people more environmentally aware in their own communities - they reckon that people start to think more about stuff such as not burning plastics in their yards once their incomes rise to around USD $4K per year.

If you list the problems facing humanity in order of solvability / biggest bang for your buck, climate change is not even in the Top 20 of things we should be thinking about or committing resources too.

However, that does not play well with rich suburban moms in America because none of those Top 20 problems will ever affect their children.

More importantly, solving those other problems would require spending money, whereas ordering developing countries that halt or slow down their industrialization prevents competition and hands an immediate advantage to corporations in the developed world.

 

Where did you find this nonsense?  Very fuzzy thinking from cable news or the internet?

[donnacha]

2 hours ago, hmficc said:

Where did you find this nonsense?  Very fuzzy thinking from cable news or the internet?

Quite the opposite. Fuzzy thinking is all the people joining the chorus of demanding that something "must be done" while failing to recognize that another "eco-tax" on air travel or household electricity will do absolutely nothing to address the claimed problem.

Forget, for a minute, that we are talking about climate change - everyone has been too primed to regard any questioning of the orthodoxy as heresy.

Instead, imagine if Greta Thunberg was angrily demanding action on the existence of Internet porn, and her proposed solution was that governments everywhere should place special taxes on men who want to buy Internet access.

Governments, spotting the revenue opportunity, would quickly get onboard. Men would be reluctant to protest the inequity for fear of being branded a "porn denier". Greta would be hailed as a hero, and her parents, both failed performers, would be assured a steady income for life  ... but it would do absolutely NOTHING to reduce the amount of online porn.

If Greta had come forward with a solution, or even just a proposal for some specific course of action, I might agree that she was a hero. Instead, she is cynically avoiding suggesting anything at all because she and her handlers already know that this is all theater, that her eventual function will to endorse some course of action put forward by the governments and corporations. In return, she will receive some of the credit for this wonderful "solution" which, coincidentally, will generate more money for the corporations than any war.

Just watch, my "fuzzy thinking" is exactly where all this going.

[bkk6060]

I like the bad air.

Keeps people away, golf courses not as crowded, less traffic.

Wear a 3m mask and forget about it.