Now is your chance to leave!!

[donnacha]

6 hours ago, daveAustin said:

I'm no expert, but would posit you might have your figures mixed up here. Volcanic release would surely be minimal as they are fleeting and few and far between compared with the sustained emissions from billions of people and ever-burgeoning industry.

I'm no expert either, but I'm not talking about volcanos, there are only around 1,500 of them. I am talking about volcanic gasses, which are emissions created by volcanic activity below the earth's crust. The vast majority of this gas does not exit via a volcanic eruption but seeps out via other, less dramatic routes.

The clearest examples are the deep ocean vents that release a constant stream of bubbles. An individual vent can release more carbon each year than any city.

 

6 hours ago, daveAustin said:

the sustained emissions from billions of people and ever-burgeoning industry.

 

The sheer scale of human activity is mind-boggling for sure, none of us can truly comprehend the magnitude of it.

Even so, humans generate only around 20% of the carbon going into the atmosphere every day, because this planet, and the level of activity within it, are even more mind-boggling.

I'm not saying that our 20% might not be the final straw that tips the total amount of carbon over into being dangerous, I have no idea, but it does make me wonder what the plan is meant to be.

If we stop ALL human activity today, would that be enough?

What size must the human population be reduced to in order to reach levels of emissions that would make the climate remain static?

 

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

The issue in CM is all people. 

But that is exactly my point. The air pollution that is killing people, reducing life expectancy, and diminishing the quality-of-life in developing countries throughout the world has nothing whatsoever to do with climate change. In fact, entirely unlike climate change, and we already know an effective solution for it.

If you can develop economies so that people are lifted out of poverty, they start thinking, of their own accord, in more environmentally cooperative ways. The switch seems to happen at around USD $4K in average income, that is when people start moving away from destructive forms of agriculture and waste disposal.

The climate change hysteria currently gripping the world is an anti-people, anti-development, anti-progress, anti-democratic religion. Not only do they offer no solutions, but they are evangelically determined to stunt the world's ability to come up with potential solutions in the future.

I am astonished that so few people are even bothering to think about what they are proposing, and what the consequences of that will be for the world's most vulnerable people. 

 

[Ron jeremy]

10 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I like the bad air.

Keeps people away, golf courses not as crowded, less traffic.

Wear a 3m mask and forget about it.

Love the sarcasm, spot on!

but an n-95 mask is more comfortable.

[hmficc]

3 hours ago, donnacha said:

Quite the opposite. Fuzzy thinking is all the people joining the chorus of demanding that something "must be done" while failing to recognize that another "eco-tax" on air travel or household electricity will do absolutely nothing to address the claimed problem.

Forget, for a minute, that we are talking about climate change - everyone has been too primed to regard any questioning of the orthodoxy as heresy.

Instead, imagine if Greta Thunberg was angrily demanding action on the existence of Internet porn, and her proposed solution was that governments everywhere should place special taxes on men who want to buy Internet access.

Governments, spotting the revenue opportunity, would quickly get onboard. Men would be reluctant to protest the inequity for fear of being branded a "porn denier". Greta would be hailed as a hero, and her parents, both failed performers, would be assured a steady income for life  ... but it would do absolutely NOTHING to reduce the amount of online porn.

If Greta had come forward with a solution, or even just a proposal for some specific course of action, I might agree that she was a hero. Instead, she is cynically avoiding suggesting anything at all because she and her handlers already know that this is all theater, that her eventual function will to endorse some course of action put forward by the governments and corporations. In return, she will receive some of the credit for this wonderful "solution" which, coincidentally, will generate more money for the corporations than any war.

Just watch, my "fuzzy thinking" is exactly where all this going.

How about a carbon tax with all proceeds being transferred on a per capita bases  to the people of  taxing country A market solution. And, you could use the money on high quality porn.What could be more wholesome?

[brokenbone]

16 hours ago, amexpat said:

However, if you list them in order of necessity for the survival of civilization it is a distant first. 

no, strictly speaking the biggest threat to an all out extinction is atmospheric co2 level below 150 ppm.

first we need the plants to survive,

then we need a safety margin,

and then we will want more co2 then that for the plants

to actually thrive, preferably more then 1500 ppm co2

[Rimmer]

A personal attack on another member has been removed

[hmficc]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

It's not a matter of 'it’s hopeless- give up.'

It's a case where, what can YOU do to change it?

So far, we witnessed two options here in ThaiVisa: 

1. We can bitch, moan, worry, and stress over it, etc., about the air quality 24/7.

2. We can put on an N95 mask and get on with our daily lives, giving it no further thought.

Of the two, personally, I find the latter to be a much more comfortable way to live.

It's not denial. It's not 'giving up.' It's choosing to live stress-free. That's all.

Obviously, many people prefer the former.

You have the same options.

There is a third option. Awaken to the reality of the situation and relocate to a more health friendly environment.

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

It's not a matter of 'it’s hopeless- give up.'

It's a case where, what can YOU do to change it?

So far, we witnessed two options here in ThaiVisa: 

1. We can bitch, moan, worry, and stress over it, etc., about the air quality 24/7.

2. We can put on an N95 mask and get on with our daily lives, giving it no further thought.

Of the two, personally, I find the latter to be a much more comfortable way to live.

It's not denial. It's not 'giving up.' It's choosing to live stress-free. That's all.

Obviously, many people prefer the former.

You have the same options.

 

6 minutes ago, hmficc said:

There is a third option. Awaken to the reality of the situation and relocate to a more health friendly environment.

 

Yes, the that third very viable option certainly does exist.  Yet for some reason, many people here seem to think that they can't.  Lack of funds, family responsibilities, etc., etc. So instead, they choose to just complain, as if that will somehow make their despair disappear.

Thoreau wrote; "Most men live lives of quiet desperation.'  I guess these folks didn't get the 'quiet' part.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Today in CM:

 

 

[from the home of CC]

23 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Unfortunately the £ dictates above all other ????

perhaps its the lack of it..

[dcnx]

32 minutes ago, hmficc said:

There is a third option. Awaken to the reality of the situation and relocate to a more health friendly environment.

By not considering this option is proof someone is in denial about the severity of the situation.

[dcnx]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Today in CM:

 

 

Quality living. 
 

Excellent place to retire and raise a family.

[roo860]

33 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

Before you leave, please take a moment to vote for me right now in the new POTY run off election.

 

Otherwise in six months you will not be able to breath on this forum.

You're better off canvassing around Bintabaht at about midnight .

????????

[dcnx]

8 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

Love the sarcasm, spot on!

but an n-95 mask is more comfortable.

Who doesn’t want to wear a mask 3 - 6 months out of the year? 
 

Anything else is uncivilized.

[sammieuk1]

16 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

perhaps its the lack of it..

CC completely correct????

[Lacrimas]

Just leave that stupid town and move to the countryside. Where I live is max 80 and an average of 45 all year round. Better than my own town in Europe.

[dcnx]

19 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

The stress that you put yourselves under, recording the numbers, charting exactly which part of the city has the worst air... It makes no sense!  That stress will kill you faster than the bad air. If you really want stats, look at the stats about 'Stress-related illnesses vs Air Pollution related illnesses.'  It's like having a hangnail, and constantly pulling on it to see if it still hurts. Pulling it isn't going to change anything. It just gives you pain. 

Being informed isn’t stressful. 

[Vacuum]

On 12/28/2019 at 4:36 AM, Ventenio said:

The pollution has started, and all my Thai friends are convinced this will be the worst year ever.

Don't worry, the PM will take care of this 'nuisance' within 7 days.

[FolkGuitar]

22 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

The stress that you put yourselves under, recording the numbers, charting exactly which part of the city has the worst air... It makes no sense!  That stress will kill you faster than the bad air. If you really want stats, look at the stats about 'Stress-related illnesses vs Air Pollution related illnesses.'  It's like having a hangnail, and constantly pulling on it to see if it still hurts. Pulling it isn't going to change anything. It just gives you pain.  Let go.

 

 

3 hours ago, dcnx said:

Being informed isn’t stressful. 

 

That's very true. Being informed isn't stressful.

But reminding yourself several times a day just how bad your environment is for your health IS stressful.

But if that's what you prefer, go for it.

I choose not to. I am aware that the pollution is a problem, I deal with the problem, and then move on.

I don't wish to dwell on it daily. That solves nothing.

[New beginnings]

Hi FolkGuitar - Obviously I don’t know you and you don’t know me. Whilst I have followed your comments in various forums with interest regarding air quality in Chiangmai I hope the views you expound are solely related to the effect they may have on you us an individual. The dangers of the air quality experienced in Chiangmai for many years now are undeniable and, for this reason, I trust no offspring, financial dependants etc will be adversely effected based on your views.

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, New beginnings said:

Hi FolkGuitar - Obviously I don’t know you and you don’t know me. Whilst I have followed your comments in various forums with interest regarding air quality in Chiangmai I hope the views you expound are solely related to the effect they may have on you us an individual. The dangers of the air quality experienced in Chiangmai for many years now are undeniable and, for this reason, I trust no offspring, financial dependants etc will be adversely effected based on your views.

 

Of course they are my own views on the subject.

I have never said that air pollution in Chiang Mai wasn't a problem. I have said that "I" don't consider it so bad a problem as to make me want to leave. 

Apparently, that is not an opinion that is permitted by many ThaiVisa members, who believe everyone should want to leave.

I have always agreed that air pollution is unhealthy. Never said otherwise.

I HAVE said that I don't believe Chiang Mai's air pollution is any more unhealthy than smoking cigarettes, and I have no need to chart on a daily basis the levels of unhealthy air to remind myself of the fact. 
I HAVE stated that I wear an N95 mask when I believe the air quality reaches a level that I believe warrants it.

I have also said that I believe focusing on this problem several times a day, posting about it constantly, and charting it in Excel spread sheets causes the body more stress than simply dealing with the problem in the positive ways available to us, i.e. wearing an N95 mask or leaving the area.

If I believed that it was so unhealthy, I would have left a long time ago. The air pollution problem didn't start last year.

 

Please do not join the ranks of those who don't read carefully enough to understand what I have said, or choose to miss-read just so they can make some sort of rebuttal.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and the replies have been removed.

 

Posts using trolling memes and the replies have been removed. 

 

Some Trump troll posts and replies have been removed. 

[mobako]

16 hours ago, CobraSnakeNecktie said:

Did anyone notice Greta is a boy actor?

Yeah,just another transgender "celebrity" coming from an old masonic swedish family (completely satanic)..

[Ventenio]

The World Health Organization estimates that 4.6 million people die each year from causes directly attributable to air pollution.

 

Long-term health effects from air pollution include heart disease, lung cancer, and respiratory diseases such as emphysema. Air pollution can also cause long-term damage to people's nerves, brain, kidneys, liver, and other organs. Some scientists suspect air pollutants cause birth defects.

 

--------------

 

First off, I'm certainly talking to my dumb self.   I only experienced one smoky season in CM (luckily not a full season) and last year I left amazingly one day before it all started.  This year I will not go to CM unless I really lose the plot (which is likely).  NO, I didn't avoid the pollution in Thailand, but where I'm at it's significantly better BUT not good enough.  I'm getting older and lazier, and it's hard to pack it all up and then deal with a bunch of other problems.  However, in a few years I'll be able to retire and actually 2020 was the year I wanted to explore outside SE Asia (I could "explore" for about 20 years and then live under a bridge.  lol.  Having enough cash to retire for 40 years is difficult, but it's possible).  Anyhow, I really feel bad for people in CM.   

 

There are probably 10 other cities a person from CM can choose from and they may still enjoy Thailand.  

 

In 30-years, if we all get sick.......I'm sure we won't blame CM.  And it's not the DYING that bothers me, it's the 10-years of complications before death.  

[ChakaKhan]

You all Tink Too Mutt!!!

[amexpat]

54 minutes ago, ChakaKhan said:

You all Tink Too Mutt!!!

Please move this to Pattaya forum.

[ThaiBrian]

I admit that I was kind of in denial. I moved here 10 weeks ago. The last several days (above 150) I could smell the pollution, it gave me a very minute sting in the nostrils. The part of town I'm in, it was around 175. My lease doesn't end until end of May, so I kind of have to fight through this. I've prepared by buying 40 filters for my mask and a roll of 3M for my A/C. I have a stand alone purifier but I want to make sure the air is below 50 AQI on the very worst day of the year. I will probably also double up on my face mask. -- AND I have an air filter for my full faced motorcycle helmet... I've triple stuffed that. I kind of wished I opted for a 3 month lease instead of 7, oh well.

 

After doing quite a bit of research on 2.5 pm in the last several days, I have decided to wear my face mask once the AQI surpasses 100. Initially, I didn't want to wear the uncomfortable mask unless it breached 200. I have a bad habit of not installing the air filter for my motorcycle helmet... I really need to as emissions on these vehicles are a lot worse than in the United States.

[Ron jeremy]

19 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Anyone that states they don't mind living in a polluted place when they have financials options anywhere is not telling the truth.

 

 

I can't beleive that people argue this fCt, and try to explain to us that they actually enjoy retiring in a place where you HAVE to wear a gas mask to survive. 

Air quality is 2 where I live. 

What a life in northern Thailand.

[meechai]

33 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

Anyone that states they don't mind living in a polluted place when they have financials options anywhere is not telling the truth.

 

 

I think when they keep their head firmly buried in the sand the pollution has less effect... ????

[dcnx]

On 12/29/2019 at 4:52 PM, FolkGuitar said:

If I believed that it was so unhealthy, I would have left a long time ago. The air pollution problem didn't start last year.

This is where your thinking is flawed.
 

What you “think” is healthy / unhealthy doesn’t match with what is scientifically healthy / unhealthy.
 

Chiang Mai is incredibly unhealthy when it comes to pollution and actual  data backs this up, not thoughts or feelings. They also know what long term effects from pollution can do to us. Chiang Mai is often in the top 20 of the most polluted cities in the world. Sometimes in the top 10. Northern Thailand has the highest rate of lung cancer in the country. 

 

Perhaps a better way to make your argument is to say that you accept the risks of living in a heavily polluted city and simply don’t worry about it. To say you don’t believe it’s bad says you don’t believe in scientific data, which would be a ridiculous claim to make.

[brokenbone]

On 12/29/2019 at 7:43 PM, Ventenio said:

The World Health Organization estimates that 4.6 million people die each year from causes directly attributable to air pollution.

 

Long-term health effects from air pollution include heart disease, lung cancer, and respiratory diseases such as emphysema. Air pollution can also cause long-term damage to people's nerves, brain, kidneys, liver, and other organs. Some scientists suspect air pollutants cause birth defects.

 

--------------

 

First off, I'm certainly talking to my dumb self.   I only experienced one smoky season in CM (luckily not a full season) and last year I left amazingly one day before it all started.  This year I will not go to CM unless I really lose the plot (which is likely).  NO, I didn't avoid the pollution in Thailand, but where I'm at it's significantly better BUT not good enough.  I'm getting older and lazier, and it's hard to pack it all up and then deal with a bunch of other problems.  However, in a few years I'll be able to retire and actually 2020 was the year I wanted to explore outside SE Asia (I could "explore" for about 20 years and then live under a bridge.  lol.  Having enough cash to retire for 40 years is difficult, but it's possible).  Anyhow, I really feel bad for people in CM.   

 

There are probably 10 other cities a person from CM can choose from and they may still enjoy Thailand.  

 

In 30-years, if we all get sick.......I'm sure we won't blame CM.  And it's not the DYING that bothers me, it's the 10-years of complications before death.  

the people who refer to is those without electric,

they are burning wood & dung in their huts for cooking and light,

this is an extremely toxic environment