Now is your chance to leave!!

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, Ventenio said:

...... But EVERY person I knew for more than a month in Thailand has had health issues because of the air.  90% had to go to the hospital.

 

 

I've been here 19 years. I don't personally know a single individual who has health issues because of the air. I know several who have liver damage because of drinking. A few who have skin cancer from lack of sun screen. Even a few who have heart problems (probably due to stress from charting the air quality... ????  ) but not a single one with breathing issues.

 

No one in my circle of acquaintances even mentions eye irritation. And my circle of acquaintances isn't particularly small. I'm very active in various outdoor and indoor sports, and interact with many different people in many different venues. Most have been here as long as we have, many have been here longer.

 

90% of the people you know have had to go to the hospital for air quality issues?

Really?

Frankly, I think you must be making up numbers just to suit your argument.

If you have to do that to justify your arguments, you've already lost the debate.

[cerox]

I think we should distinguish between two things here:

- "normal" CNX air (AQI 70-100)

- smoky season levels +150, oftentimes +200 like in 2019 - the new norm

 

Most people I know who come to CNX regularly do not go here in Feb, March, April and some also May. This is my second point. So why the drama?

 

The first point: Yes the air is not good compared to international standard where we should be below 50 to have healthy air. As someone said before it is up to you to make your trade-offs - stay/ignore, stay/air purify indoors to reduce exposure, or leave but without complaining every day.

 

For those like me who like Asia, I am really wondering what your alternatives are, apart from living on an island or somewhere in Southern Thailand. Your problems will still be there because of the burning culture here (trash etc.).

 

There is a great book I read a while ago "complaint free world". One central message is do not complain about something if you cannot change it. If you can change it, do it. Same thing here: If you cannot deal with it, by all means there are many green-air places you can live in.  But why complaining about it? The government will read ThaiVisa Forum and solve it by next week? Most of you have been here for years; accept that things are as they are.

[cerox]

Almost every smoky season I was able to leave as I do this year.

No, to answer your questions, today is not smoky season. The sky is blue.

Yes, last week we had grey sky, you are right.

 

When I leave before smoky season I do in a normal manner, without a N95 mask at the airline checkin counter.

[orang37]

Esteemed TVCM Friends,

 

I ask your advance forgiveness for responding to this thread with a haiku:

 

I wish my acquaintances 

could make a circle,

or, even a square

 

Happy New and/or Old Whatever ????

 

~o:37;

[dcnx]

Did anyone leave yet? . 

[cerox]

Maybe they did not manage to take their last chance to leave. Now all on the way coughing to the hospital ????

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Did anyone leave yet? . 

 

 

Does anyone care ?   ????

[HaleySabai]

Air quality at the moment (Jan.02-2pm) is in the green for the first time since Nov.18, I can see Doi Luang from my backdoor,70km North.......Happy New Year!

It's such a pity, CM is near perfect when the air is clear.

 

I'm willing to give it one more year. We are dug in and going to ride out the 'death-cloud' this season. I have fortified the house and confident that we can maintain a 'safe-zone' inside up to 600+.I'm going to rig-up a water misting system around the perimeter of our backyard so the kids can hopefully get outside and play. Last they nearly went stir-crazy being shacked-up for 5-wks.

 

Yes, it sounds ridiculous ,but such is the reality of living in Chiang Mai.

[FolkGuitar]

This is why I stay in Chiang Mai... Most of the year, I can get views like this one, shot just the other day, along the Samoeng Loop road...  Sorry for the quality, but I only had my cell phone with me.

 

 

[CharlieH]

Reported "flame" post removed.

[FolkGuitar]

6 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

This is why I stay in Chiang Mai... Most of the year, I can get views like this one, shot just the other day, along the Samoeng Loop road...  Sorry for the quality, but I only had my cell phone with me.

 

Here it is, already January, yet I can still see the temple on Doi Saket and the mountains far beyond from Huaw Kaew Rd in the middle of the city. 

Being optimistic or pessimistic will change nothing, but optimism sure feels better.  ????

I like it here. I do not choose to live my life with forethought of grief.

[Ron jeremy]

6 hours ago, HaleySabai said:

Air quality at the moment (Jan.02-2pm) is in the green for the first time since Nov.18, I can see Doi Luang from my backdoor,70km North.......Happy New Year!

It's such a pity, CM is near perfect when the air is clear.

 

I'm willing to give it one more year. We are dug in and going to ride out the 'death-cloud' this season. I have fortified the house and confident that we can maintain a 'safe-zone' inside up to 600+.I'm going to rig-up a water misting system around the perimeter of our backyard so the kids can hopefully get outside and play. Last they nearly went stir-crazy being shacked-up for 5-wks.

 

Yes, it sounds ridiculous ,but such is the reality of living in Chiang Mai.

Yes, when you can't let the kids out for 5-6 weeks at a time it's sad.

i developed 2 series sinus infections, and 2 of my friends the same, in short holidays, couldn't imagine the LNG term effects.

and BTW, most peopl travel during December to March to escape the winter.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Ron jeremy

[FolkGuitar]

42 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Yes, when you can't let the kids out for 5-6 weeks at a time it's sad.

 

It is. They miss so much school every year... 

 

and BTW, most people travel during December to March to escape the winter.

 

Yes, most people. (That must be the 90% the other poster was talking about who had to go to the hospital?) Which is why Chiang Mai is such a Ghost Town every winter. But they call it High Season anyway, so the hotels can jack up the prices... just in case someone does show up.

 

And we were fortunate this New Year's Eve that one fellow actually decided to stay and send up 18,635 khum loi all by himself so the two other people who didn't leave town could enjoy the show. You have to admire his sacrifice.

 

Do people actually believe the things they say here?

[mike787]

I have the mandatory thai visa medical insurance, it will save me if I or anyone should need treatment.

[hmficc]

13 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

I've been here 19 years. I don't personally know a single individual who has health issues because of the air. I know several who have liver damage because of drinking. A few who have skin cancer from lack of sun screen. Even a few who have heart problems (probably due to stress from charting the air quality... ????  ) but not a single one with breathing issues.

 

No one in my circle of acquaintances even mentions eye irritation. And my circle of acquaintances isn't particularly small. I'm very active in various outdoor and indoor sports, and interact with many different people in many different venues. Most have been here as long as we have, many have been here longer.

 

90% of the people you know have had to go to the hospital for air quality issues?

Really?

Frankly, I think you must be making up numbers just to suit your argument.

If you have to do that to justify your arguments, you've already lost the debate.

The heart problems are definitely from the air- 100%.

[orang37]

8 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Do people actually believe the things they say here?

 

In a manner of speaking, yes.

 

~o:37;

[Ventenio]

The most severe haze episode occurred in 1997 and resulted in sharp increases in outpatient visits (26%) and hospital admissions (33% for all respiratory, 36% for pneumonia, 40% for bronchitis/chronic pulmonary obstructive disease, 12% for asthma) within a period of a few months 

 

However, a recently completed large-scale population-based epidemiology study with > 26,000 subjects indicated that residents who live near the petrochemical industrial estate have higher risks in adverse pregnancy outcomes, neuropsychological symptoms, and poor performance on neuropsychological tests

-------------

The centre estimated the city's population of 15 million spent 600 million baht in total to buy standard face masks over the course of two months, and 800,000 people would have needed to visit a hospital because of the air pollution.

 

-------------

 

My 90% figure will now be updated to 90.01%, and rising.  

 

lol

 

enjoy the pollution thread as you "retire in luxury" and live your best possible life.  

 

To simply accept MONTHS of sickness (physical or psychological) is really incredible.  Hey, can you go to prison for 3 months every year of your life and die 10-years early?  Sure!!!  great life

 

[hobz]

On 12/28/2019 at 3:57 PM, donnacha said:

Solvability is important. Do any of the measures being proposed actually have any impact on climate change?

Or are they simply harsh measures that solve an entirely different problem i.e. the profitability of Western corporations and the ability of governments to levy even more taxes on their already over-taxed populations?

Banning all car and air travel would reduce carbon emissions by less than 1%. Natural geothermal emissions (things like volcanic gasses) account for 80% of carbon.

Look, I'm not saying that an economic system based upon ever growing consumption is in any way sustainable, and I might even be onboard if anyone proposes a radical plan that actually tackles the supposed problem.

What you have at the moment, however, is a cabal of vested interests using climate change in the same way they have always used wars in the past, as a convenient baton with which to make populations cohere around measures that actually have nothing to do with their real problems.


 

If it's true that 80% of carbon is from natural emissions then how come they keep saying that scientists are in consensus that climate change is man made?

[hobz]

10 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

The most severe haze episode occurred in 1997 and resulted in sharp increases in outpatient visits (26%) and hospital admissions (33% for all respiratory, 36% for pneumonia, 40% for bronchitis/chronic pulmonary obstructive disease, 12% for asthma) within a period of a few months 

 

However, a recently completed large-scale population-based epidemiology study with > 26,000 subjects indicated that residents who live near the petrochemical industrial estate have higher risks in adverse pregnancy outcomes, neuropsychological symptoms, and poor performance on neuropsychological tests

-------------

The centre estimated the city's population of 15 million spent 600 million baht in total to buy standard face masks over the course of two months, and 800,000 people would have needed to visit a hospital because of the air pollution.

 

-------------

 

My 90% figure will now be updated to 90.01%, and rising.  

 

lol

 

enjoy the pollution thread as you "retire in luxury" and live your best possible life.  

 

To simply accept MONTHS of sickness (physical or psychological) is really incredible.  Hey, can you go to prison for 3 months every year of your life and die 10-years early?  Sure!!!  great life

 

3 months? More like 5-6 months..

[jesimps]

I'm curious. How much do they pay you to live in Chiang Mai? Taking into account the smog, immigration, traffic and the sheer mind-numbing boredom of the place (once you've spent the morning touring the old town), I honestly can't imagine anyone wanting to live there.

Someone ought to invite that weird child Thunberg to stay for a month, that'd give her something to crow about.

Where I live just south of Pattaya and apart from my neighbour burning his rubbish occasionally, I can honestly say that I've always found the air to be clean as a whistle. Maybe it's because we're near to the sea. Move to Pattaya, you know it makes sense.

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

................ and the sheer mind-numbing boredom of the place (once you've spent the morning touring the old town), I honestly can't imagine anyone wanting to live there.

 

 

I've seen a couple of people say that Chiang Mai is 'boring.'

Please, what is it that you require of a place so as not to be bored? This is a genuine question. I can't seem to find enough hours in the day, or days in the week, to do all the things I want to do here.

What is it that I would find more of to alleviate boredom in, say, Pattaya that would make me want to move there. (I'm not asking about traffic, immigration, or air quality, only things that alleviate boredom for you.)

[CGW]

1 hour ago, hobz said:

If it's true that 80% of carbon is from natural emissions then how come they keep saying that scientists are in consensus that climate change is man made?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

[AAArdvark]

Leaving March 1st

[motorcycguy]

After 1 1/2 years I would living in Bangkok I've come to the realization that my health is important. Spent three days in the hospital a few months ago undetermined cause but there was speculation it was because air quality.

 

I'm leaving to go back to the USA and check things out see if there is a difference in how I feel. If there is not going to be coming back except to wrap up financial matters and say goodbye to people. I'm sad to be leaving.

[AAArdvark]

2 hours ago, hobz said:

If it's true that 80% of carbon is from natural emissions then how come they keep saying that scientists are in consensus that climate change is man made?

Consensus is the incorrect word.  The vast majority say it.

To answer your question, they are scientists and they know what they are talking about and you do not.

[HaleySabai]

10 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

It is. They miss so much school every year... 

 

....our kids don't miss school, because we home-school.....literally.

It has only been 2019 that I took measures,for obvious reasons, to keep the kids indoors for a prolonged period. Don't know how 2020 burning-season will play but I'm prepared for the worst.

 

A short time ago CM was tied with Mumbai for 8th in worst city standing.... How is that even possible that CM could be on par with a juggernaut of a city of 20+ mil people like Mumbai?

 

[nickmondo]

in Malaga, Spain, the reading averages 2.

I want to stay here but health risks are not worth the risk.

I will try to find a healthy place in the countryside here, but if not, will have to go.

Thai girlfriend not going to be happy.

And have you seen the paperwork required to get a Visa for a thai girl to visit Spain?

shame the many thousands of bad thai girls have spoilt it for the good ones, regarding visas.

[The Theory]

When I tried to renew my extension in Jan 2019, the immigration officer asked me:

"Are you going to stay and live here (very rude and upset) ?" I was surprised by her question, but after a month or so I could understand why she asked me that. They are aware that many retirement extensions  (those with history of living in CM) have not been renewed in CM lately.   
I loved CM, but what's the point if I can not spend time outdoor or have a mask on my face most of time. No jogging, no running, no outdoor activities !!!I

I moved out of CM a few months later. 

[fredob43]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 12:24 PM, dcnx said:

Yea, you’re only surrounded by fire and other readings of 150+. Nothing to be concerned about.

Little or No burning this year around K.P.Phet. (90+% of cane is being cut by machine) Snap of our cloudy smog ridden sky this morning. 

[mduras01]

I keep seeing threads about moving down south, or that Chiang Mai kills you.

 

I live in Phuket and am from Orlando, FL. The opioid crisis in FL took away two close friends, one a doctor and one a banker. A mass shooting in a nightclub took another.

 

Bear with me.

 

I moved from Chiang Mai to Phuket for a change and cleaner air. Neighbors burning garbage and local AQI hovering around 100 on many days had me question my move. I decided to move BACK to Chiang Mai—after I’d already moved to Phuket. My home has three high end air filters and I always wear a face mask when the AQI hovers around 100–the mask I bought in Phuket, coincidentally.

 

The issue is not anymore Thailand. A massive cloud from Indonesia had Phuket covered in haze for two weeks. Another from God knows where had us covered for another week—Hills were very hazy. And that was not even during burning season, which affects all of Thailand, including Phuket.

 

My suggestion is you revisit a post about this made 5 years ago. You’ll find that it mirrors your revisiting in 6 months—people trying to justify their righteous move and a non-sensical back and forth, which is what any post about haze creates. 
 

I prefer living in CM than Orlando, New York, or Phuket. No matter what you plan for, life has another plan for you—health wise.

 

I’m happy here, took necessary steps, and am healthier & happier for it.

 

Happy New Year.

 

Ps. An acquaintance also moved down to Krabi and got razed by a pickup Truck and killed. No matter what you plan for, life has another plan for you &  Your joy is yours alone, do what you feel is best for you. 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by mduras01