UK election result 'blew away' argument for second Brexit vote: Labour's Starmer

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

You can keep ignoring that Scotland has a 7% deficit (of GDP). Compare this to the 1% deficit for the rest of the UK. Those numbers includes the alleged (and famous) scottish oil and gas revenue. 

 

Financially, Scotland is a wreck. In all fairness, you're slightly better off than Greece, which is a positive...so tally-ho off you go!

Scotland has no deficit. It receives a block grant from Westminster and allocates that to the services needed in Scotland.

The deficit you speak of is money spent by Westminster and allocated to Scotland by Westminster.

 

But you already knew this because it has been explained to you many, many times.

 

Odd that you failed once again to address any of my other points in my post.

 

All you guys have is slogans. "What about the GERS" being your personal favourite.

[TheDark]

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The only nation in the world without their own parliament?

Yeah, right ????

I guess it's time to have one then?

 

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Scotland has no deficit. It receives a block grant from Westminster and allocates that to the services needed in Scotland.

The deficit you speak of is money spent by Westminster and allocated to Scotland by Westminster.

 

But you already knew this because it has been explained to you many, many times.

 

Odd that you failed once again to address any of my other points in my post.

 

All you guys have is slogans. "What about the GERS" being your personal favourite.

We simply have to agree to disagree on whether there's a deficit or not. 

[Rookiescot]

35 minutes ago, Forethat said:

We simply have to agree to disagree on whether there's a deficit or not. 

No there is no deficit.

[melvinmelvin]

 

after having read through the last 2-3 pages again (and again):

 

to me Scotland appears as a vassal state shuffled around as Westmister feels fit

guess the jocks ain't even capable to spell sovereign anymore

 

and I also learn that it seems that most Scots on here are comfortable with that

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I think it shows the pragmatic thinking of the UK government, not bowing to a nationalist movement who are trying to capitalise on a mood swing. 

 

Maybe you should think about the 55% of Scots who do not want a repeat of the chaos, bitterness and divisiveness that was caused by the 2014 indy ref. Family members and former friends who stopped speaking with each other, etc. etc. Maybe those people would prefer to wait a bit longer for the wounds to heal? 

 

I'm not sure why you have taken the side of the nationalists and not the unionists. 

 

well, I would say that it clearly shows the imperialist thinking in Westminster/Scotland/Queen's home.

 

what you say is OK as long as Scotland is considered and treated as a vassal state to suit Westminster

if you recognize any degree of sovereignty for Scotland and/or her inhabitants it isn't

 

if sovereignty north of the border is taken anything close to seriously;

nationalist movements in Scotland to take Scotland out of UK is none of Westminster's business, none

 

the day Scotland has made up her mind and want to negotiate a step-out-deal it becomes Westminster's business

 

and all this English / Westminster interest in and rules for how Scotland should go about "made up her mind" is typically

imperialistic

 

the term United Kingdom is somewhat misleading, EGL is more fitting; England and grabbed land

 

 

[nkg]

The title of this story is wrong. It says:

Quote

UK election result 'blew away' argument for second Brexit vote: Labour's Starmer

 

What it should really say is "Two angry Scots keep an off-topic argument going for 50 pages".

[melvinmelvin]

and ?

 

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

well, I would say that it clearly shows the imperialist thinking in Westminster/Scotland/Queen's home.

 

what you say is OK as long as Scotland is considered and treated as a vassal state to suit Westminster

if you recognize any degree of sovereignty for Scotland and/or her inhabitants it isn't

 

if sovereignty north of the border is taken anything close to seriously;

nationalist movements in Scotland to take Scotland out of UK is none of Westminster's business, none

 

the day Scotland has made up her mind and want to negotiate a step-out-deal it becomes Westminster's business

 

and all this English / Westminster interest in and rules for how Scotland should go about "made up her mind" is typically

imperialistic

 

the term United Kingdom is somewhat misleading, EGL is more fitting; England and grabbed land

 

 

I still think it shows your bias towards the nationalists. You just assume most Scots agree with the nationalists, and that's why you come to your conclusions about English imperialism. 

Why not just acknowledge that it's possible (and likely) most Scots think the union is a good thing? Or are the unionist Scots stupid or ignorant in your opinion? 

 

I don't blame you for this bias. The SNP and nationalist Scots are the ones who shout the loudest, so you have been conditioned to think their's is the only opinion in Scotland. 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I still think it shows your bias towards the nationalists. You just assume most Scots agree with the nationalists, and that's why you come to your conclusions about English imperialism. 

Why not just acknowledge that it's possible (and likely) most Scots think the union is a good thing? Or are the unionist Scots stupid or ignorant in your opinion? 

 

I don't blame you for this bias. The SNP and nationalist Scots are the ones who shout the loudest, so you have been conditioned to think their's is the only opinion in Scotland. 

Latest poll. Majority of Scots now want independence. 

Of course you will now argue about the accuracy of polls.

 

https://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask/?removed

[Rookiescot]

6 hours ago, nkg said:

The title of this story is wrong. It says:

 

What it should really say is "Two angry Scots keep an off-topic argument going for 50 pages".

Sorry you are looking for the "Gosh. We English Brexiteers are just super aint we?" thread.

 

Its around here somewhere but I dont have a link.

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

I still think it shows your bias towards the nationalists. You just assume most Scots agree with the nationalists, and that's why you come to your conclusions about English imperialism. 

Why not just acknowledge that it's possible (and likely) most Scots think the union is a good thing? Or are the unionist Scots stupid or ignorant in your opinion? 

 

I don't blame you for this bias. The SNP and nationalist Scots are the ones who shout the loudest, so you have been conditioned to think their's is the only opinion in Scotland. 

 

don't agree to being biased (surprise surprise)

 

however,

I feel strongly that Scotland and the Scots should have room for sorting this the way they fancy without

pressure or fingers from down south

 

I really have no idea what most Scots feel like and I don't particularly care

my concern is more that I fancy respect for sovereignty

 

 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

don't agree to being biased (surprise surprise)

 

however,

I feel strongly that Scotland and the Scots should have room for sorting this the way they fancy without

pressure or fingers from down south

 

I really have no idea what most Scots feel like and I don't particularly care

my concern is more that I fancy respect for sovereignty

 

 

I really don't understand as to why you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the Scots chose themselves to remain in our union. Scotland is not all about Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP, the "south" had no imput into the Scots decision to remain unionists. 

And referendums are not like Tic Tacs where you just flip the lid and another referendum pops out.

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

I really don't understand as to why you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the Scots chose themselves to remain in our union. Scotland is not all about Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP, the "south" had no imput into the Scots decision to remain unionists. 

And referendums are not like Tic Tacs where you just flip the lid and another referendum pops out.

 

I am fully aware that there was a very clear majority for stay only a few years back.

(don't know much about SNP, they were considered a bit odd when I was a student in Edinburgh ages ago)

 

Now,

then there is this bit about sovereignty

if those up north fancy arranging referendums frequently that is actually their business and theirs alone,

quite simply; let 'em

 

Westminster babysitting is not warranted.

 

[evadgib]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

I really don't understand as to why you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the Scots chose themselves to remain in our union. Scotland is not all about Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP, the "south" had no imput into the Scots decision to remain unionists. 

And referendums are not like Tic Tacs where you just flip the lid and another referendum pops out.

He's also unaware that the so called oppressors have never been independently polled on anything, whereas the Jocks, Welsh and NI have each been polled twice.

[RuamRudy]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

I really don't understand as to why you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the Scots chose themselves to remain in our union. Scotland is not all about Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP, the "south" had no imput into the Scots decision to remain unionists. 

And referendums are not like Tic Tacs where you just flip the lid and another referendum pops out.

Most Scots back independence on eve of Brexit

 

"A majority of voters in Scotland support independence according to a poll published on the eve of Britain’s departure from the European Union.

 

The swing is driven mainly by Remain voters who voted against Scottish independence in the 2014 referendum, suggesting that some pro-Europeans have lost faith in the Union thanks to Brexit."

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/most-scots-back-independence-on-eve-of-brexit-zf5wpbkzc

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

I am fully aware that there was a very clear majority for stay only a few years back.

(don't know much about SNP, they were considered a bit odd when I was a student in Edinburgh ages ago)

 

Now,

then there is this bit about sovereignty

if those up north fancy arranging referendums frequently that is actually their business and theirs alone,

quite simply; let 'em

 

Westminster babysitting is not warranted.

 

Nobody in Westminster is babysitting anyone, there is more to a political party (SNP) than having only one ambition, according to Boris they havn't debated the failing education standards in Scotland for 2 years, now whether true or not it makes little difference, but to spend an whole day discussing whether they should display the EU flag after Brexit is by anyones standards rather odd. It is all about the SNP again, they care nought for the majority Unionists in Scotland and this can only lead to immense discord between themselves, totally selfish and thoughtless.

You say "let em" I say they don't want, as proven.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

Nobody in Westminster is babysitting anyone, there is more to a political party (SNP) than having only one ambition, according to Boris they havn't debated the failing education standards in Scotland for 2 years, now whether true or not it makes little difference, but to spend an whole day discussing whether they should display the EU flag after Brexit is by anyones standards rather odd. It is all about the SNP again, they care nought for the majority Unionists in Scotland and this can only lead to immense discord between themselves, totally selfish and thoughtless.

You say "let em" I say they don't want, as proven.

How many parliamentary man-years have been wasted to satisfy the 26% of the UK population who voted in favour of Brexit? 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Most Scots back independence on eve of Brexit

 

"A majority of voters in Scotland support independence according to a poll published on the eve of Britain’s departure from the European Union.

 

The swing is driven mainly by Remain voters who voted against Scottish independence in the 2014 referendum, suggesting that some pro-Europeans have lost faith in the Union thanks to Brexit."

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/most-scots-back-independence-on-eve-of-brexit-zf5wpbkzc

One swallow doesn't make a spring RR, but I can just imagine you doing cartwheels down Sauchiehall St on reading this revelation. Just let the dust settle after Brexit and everything will be back to normal. Too early to get the tartan bunting out just yet I fear.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How many parliamentary man-years have been wasted to satisfy the 26% of the UK population who voted in favour of Brexit? 

Manipulating figures is often misleading, better sticking to the 52% of what the UK voted for. 

[melvinmelvin]

27 minutes ago, evadgib said:

He's also unaware that the so called oppressors have never been independently polled on anything, whereas the Jocks, Welsh and NI have each been polled twice.

am fully aware of that

 

if polls in England are required then you typically have a vassal state situation

or imperialist-colony situation

which is going fare - there are still many colonies around the world, UK has a few

 

but then Scotland should be recognized as such

[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

Nobody in Westminster is babysitting anyone, there is more to a political party (SNP) than having only one ambition, according to Boris they havn't debated the failing education standards in Scotland for 2 years, now whether true or not it makes little difference, but to spend an whole day discussing whether they should display the EU flag after Brexit is by anyones standards rather odd. It is all about the SNP again, they care nought for the majority Unionists in Scotland and this can only lead to immense discord between themselves, totally selfish and thoughtless.

You say "let em" I say they don't want, as proven.

 

right,

but bottom line is that it is not yours or BJ's business how Scots opts to run Scotland

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

right,

but bottom line is that it is not yours or BJ's business how Scots opts to run Scotland

Yes it is, we are all part of the same United Kingdom. This is the third and last time I will say this, the Scots chose to stay in our Union, and with that it does involve in working together and not listening to the likes of Sturgeon and Blackfords boring monotonous mantra, independence to the SNP means joining 27 other countries.

[RuamRudy]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

Manipulating figures is often misleading, better sticking to the 52% of what the UK voted for. 

But that is not what I was responding to. The situations are entirely comparable, although the rUK state of the NHS, police force, crime rate, public services, transport network - all are significantly worse in England than in Scotland, yet Westminster has been obsessing over Brexit and allowed the rest of their areas of responsibility to fail. 

[RuamRudy]

32 minutes ago, vogie said:

One swallow doesn't make a spring RR, but I can just imagine you doing cartwheels down Sauchiehall St on reading this revelation. Just let the dust settle after Brexit and everything will be back to normal. Too early to get the tartan bunting out just yet I fear.

Look at the trends. 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Look at the trends. 

That tells me that the Scots wish to remain within the UK, if your horse can't get over the finish line before the other horses you cannot claim a victory despite how close the race was.

Edited January 31, 2020 by vogie

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

That tells me that the Scots wish to remain within the UK, if your horse can't get over the finish line before the other horses you cannot claim a victory despite how close the race was.

The gun hasn't been fired yet. Brexit didn't start with majority in favour. That developed through the course of the campaign. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I really don't understand as to why you are turning a blind eye to the fact that the Scots chose themselves to remain in our union. Scotland is not all about Mrs Sturgeon and the SNP, the "south" had no imput into the Scots decision to remain unionists. 

And referendums are not like Tic Tacs where you just flip the lid and another referendum pops out.

The Scots voted to remain in the EU. Hows that working out?

 

The Scottish government was asking to be included in the Brexit negotiations and wanted a deal very similar to what Northern Ireland is being given now. This was refused with the usual Westminster arrogance and disdain. 

Westminsters actions is what drives independence forward. Not Scottish exceptionalism. 

[evadgib]

To quote the Beatles; "it's getting better all the time..."

 

UK Government hails new era for UK exporters

 

Defence invests billions into UK prosperity

 

And for those poor, oppressed, colonised Jocks:

 

UK defence procurement spend worth more than £1.7 billion a year to Scotland

 

The SNP will never be in the same league.

Edited January 31, 2020 by evadgib

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

To quote the Beatles; "it's getting better all the time..."

 

UK Government hails new era for UK exporters

 

Defence invests billions into UK prosperity

 

And for those poor, oppressed, colonised Jocks:

 

UK defence procurement spend worth more than £1.7 billion a year to Scotland

 

Well done & thank you Boris Johnson ????

 

you obviously think that you have purchased Scotland stock and barrel