Will Thailand break out of middile income status?

[Hal65]

I think the main impediment to getting out of the middile income zone is building an educated and driven workforce. I hope this doesn't turn into a Thai bashing thread but we should also speak soberly about the current situation. How are things going in the tech industry in Bangkok? Are the universities turning out a fair number of graduates relative to the rest of SEA or is Thailand badly underperforming here?

 

Only thing I've heard is that Vietnam is top of pack in this area. My picture of Thailand as an economy in transition to the future is hazy, hence this thread.

[surangw]

whats the middle income bar set at this week ?

 

[Bullie]

Tech industry in Thailand is being relocated elsewhere for lack of skilled technicians, and an appalling lack of English skills.

As to the number of graduates churned out by Thai Universities: me thinks it is the wrong question to ask. What is the QUALITY of graduates would be a more appropriate question. Here again, English-speaking and understanding skills (the lingua franca of the world) are sadly missing.

 

What with the dwindling number of tourists, and all the other navel staring qualities the Thai posses, I would say they are rapidly progressing towards the exit, instead of aspiring to even BE a middle income zone (top 5 percent of pop. excluded).

[CNXexpat]

There are many people with a middle income. When I am out for dinner in medium expensive restaurants like sushi restaurants, there are a many Thais too.

My dentist is married with a dentist (both have no own dentist offices) and at her Facebook site I saw that they are traveling around the world: Iceland, Austria, India, Japan, Switzerland, New Zealand, Korea, etc. 

Read this how many Thais are traveling abroad. Many of the Thais have a good salary.
 https://thaiembdc.org/2019/04/15/thais-becoming-outbound-tourists-in-greater-numbers/

[swissie]

Compared to only 10 years ago, many Thais have managed to elevate themselfes "into the middle class". And looking at the astonishing number of really expensive cars, I must conclude that a great number of Thai's have managed to elevate themselves far above "middle class".

As opposed to European dwellers, fighting to remain in "the middle class".

- Keen observers have long discovered that "the future" will take place in Asia and certainly not in Europe/US.

Next question: Why is it that "asian currencies" are gaining against "western currencies"?
What could possibly be the reason? The services of a clairvoyant are not needed, I insist.

[CNXexpat]

26 minutes ago, swissie said:

Keen observers have long discovered that "the future" will take place in Asia and certainly not in Europe/US.

Not in Thailand also. It was a 2nd world country 15 years ago, it´s a 2nd world country today and it will be still a 2nd world country in 15 years. Vietnam is growing much faster, Myanmar will take many of the tourists and at the end the corruption, the low education and the inept politicians will do the rest. 

 

32 minutes ago, swissie said:

And looking at the astonishing number of really expensive cars

Mostly thanks corruption.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, CNXexpat said:

Not in Thailand also. It was a 2nd world country 15 years ago, it´s a 2nd world country today and it will be still a 2nd world country in 15 years. Vietnam is growing much faster, Myanmar will take many of the tourists and at the end the corruption, the low education and the inept politicians will do the rest. 

 

Mostly thanks corruption.

Can agree partially.
In Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, the younsters are so eager to learn. Was truly impressed.
Coulden't find any desire by youngsters in Thailand, persuing "learning" with the same vigor as in neighboring countries.
"Corruption" is ripe in those countries. Much less in Vietnam, but absolutely rampant in Cambodia.

Eventually it will balance out. But in the end, the youth of any country will determine the future of their country.
I am afraid that Thailand (and it's youth) will not fare well in a very compeitive future world.

[Assurancetourix]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

I am afraid that Thailand (and it's youth) will not fare well in a very compeitive future world.

You are afraid because you reason as a farang;
Thai people have a conception of the world that is very similar to what ancient Rome was:
there were Roman citizens who were in fact few in number and the rest of the world was terra incognita;
they didn't care;
it is also what caused their fall;

Thailand takes the same path to obscurantism

[malibukid]

11 hours ago, swissie said:

Can agree partially.
In Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, the younsters are so eager to learn. Was truly impressed.
Coulden't find any desire by youngsters in Thailand, persuing "learning" with the same vigor as in neighboring countries.
"Corruption" is ripe in those countries. Much less in Vietnam, but absolutely rampant in Cambodia.

Eventually it will balance out. But in the end, the youth of any country will determine the future of their country.
I am afraid that Thailand (and it's youth) will not fare well in a very compeitive future world.

when i am in Hanoi i am besieged by youngsters who ask if the can chat with me in order to practice their English skills.  never here.

[Laza 45]

17 hours ago, surangw said:

whats the middle income bar set at this week ?

 

...300 Bt a day.. oh.. and a 7 Bt pay rise.. 

[Pdavies99]

What rubbish! Another foreigner who thinks Pattaya and Bangkok represent the wealth of Thailand!!!

 

Get out into the country and see if thre is any wealth, stop believing the Newspapers,  Thailand is still 90% poor.

[saengd]

13 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Not in Thailand also. It was a 2nd world country 15 years ago, it´s a 2nd world country today and it will be still a 2nd world country in 15 years. Vietnam is growing much faster, Myanmar will take many of the tourists and at the end the corruption, the low education and the inept politicians will do the rest. 

 

Mostly thanks corruption.

What's a second world country for goodness sake, a country that was once controlled by the Soviet Union is the literal definition.

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, Pdavies99 said:

What rubbish! Another foreigner who thinks Pattaya and Bangkok represent the wealth of Thailand!!!

 

Get out into the country and see if thre is any wealth, stop believing the Newspapers,  Thailand is still 90% poor.

Officially and statistically, Thailand comprises over 55% of the population in the middle class or higher.

 

I agree with that assessment.

[CNXexpat]

4 minutes ago, saengd said:

What's a second world country for goodness sake, a country that was once controlled by the Soviet Union is the literal definition.

First world are developed industrial countries like USA, Japan, Germany and so on. Third world are the poorest and undeveloped countries. Second world are the countries in between like the BRICS countries, Thailand and others. It´s easy to google. You would find this explanation by example: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/second-world.asp

[Assurancetourix]

3 minutes ago, saengd said:

Officially and statistically, Thailand comprises over 55% of the population in the middle class or higher.

 

I agree with that assessment.

Maybe...Maybe ..

But nearly 100% of these 55% 

are inundated with debt for having bought on credit a lot of things totally useless but necessary to appear.

the face .. the face is the most important thing here.
More important than anything, more than life itself.

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, CNXexpat said:

First world are developed industrial countries like USA, Japan, Germany and so on. Third world are the poorest and undeveloped countries. Second world are the countries in between like the BRICS countries, Thailand and others. It´s easy to google. You would find this explanation by example: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/second-world.asp

Outdated and obsolete terminology, the World Bank and IMF updated those terms years ago to drop the political reference.  Fully Developed, Developed, Developing and emerging are the terms currently in use in most questers, Thailand is regarded as Developing..

[spidermike007]

In Thailand, the distribution of adults by wealth range is heavily concentrated at the bottom end of the wealth spectrum. Precisely, 91.7 percent of adults belong in the under-US$10,000 wealth band, 7.5 percent in the between US$10,000 and US$100,000 band, and 0.7 percent in the between US$100,000 and US$1 million band. Only 0.1 percent are members of the over-US$1 million wealth range. This translates into a high-income inequality value of 90.2 on the Gini index.

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/growing-gap-between-richest-and-poorest-thais

 

 

[saengd]

8 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

Maybe...Maybe ..

But nearly 100% of these 55% 

are inundated with debt for having bought on credit a lot of things totally useless but necessary to appear.

the face .. the face is the most important thing here.
More important than anything, more than life itself.

Just like in the West, it's the middle classes that are the engine of consumer led recoveries and the ones drowning in debt, the banks and the country needs them thus.

[worgeordie]

Elevated to middle class,by standing on a pile of debt.

regards Worgeordie

[Assurancetourix]

17 minutes ago, saengd said:

Just like in the West, it's the middle classes that are the engine of consumer led recoveries and the ones drowning in debt, the banks and the country needs them thus.

No , not like in Europe anyway ;

maybe like in USA but cannot speak or write about a country I never went to .

 

But we are not here to  compare Thailand to the west.

[Momofarang]

8 hours ago, Assurancetourix said:

Thai people have a conception of the world that is very similar to what ancient Rome was

But the Romans had a functional sewage system. At times a better political system too. Buriram Chang stadium remains a pale copy of the Coloseum.

[Assurancetourix]

4 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

But the Romans had a functional sewage system

Exact 

[Brunolem]

Thailand still largely has a feudal economy, with a class of super wealthy Thai-Chinese owners and a vast reservoir of uneducated populace which is there to provide the basic manpower needed by the factories, construction sites, shops and restaurants.

 

There is not much of a middle class, only the appearance of it, with a significant number of people living beyond their means, on credit.

 

Don't be fooled by the cars and large TV screens, it's all on credit...even Maseratis are for sell on credit as one can see by walking in Siam Paragon.

 

The recent advent of almost unlimited ultra cheap credit, not only in Thailand, has completely distorted the picture of society, and a simple observation of the surface is not enough anymore to get a clear view of the real state of the economy.l

 

Global debt is at 255 trillion dollars and global GDP at about 85 trillion, an insane ratio of over 300%!

 

Everybody's rich...until nobody is...

[saengd]

34 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

No , not like in Europe anyway ;

maybe like in USA but cannot speak or write about a country I never went to .

 

But we are not here to  compare Thailand to the west.

We have to be able to compare against something and/or use examples of other countries, else how do we know what's normal or not!

 

Europe, household consumer debt, 50% of GDP, that's a big number.

 

[saengd]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

In Thailand, the distribution of adults by wealth range is heavily concentrated at the bottom end of the wealth spectrum. Precisely, 91.7 percent of adults belong in the under-US$10,000 wealth band, 7.5 percent in the between US$10,000 and US$100,000 band, and 0.7 percent in the between US$100,000 and US$1 million band. Only 0.1 percent are members of the over-US$1 million wealth range. This translates into a high-income inequality value of 90.2 on the Gini index.

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/growing-gap-between-richest-and-poorest-thais

 

 

Interesting, but I'm bound to ask, and?

[Thaidream]

15 hours ago, swissie said:

Compared to only 10 years ago, many Thais have managed to elevate themselfes "into the middle class". And looking at the astonishing number of really expensive cars, I must conclude that a great number of Thai's have managed to elevate themselves far above "middle class".

As opposed to European dwellers, fighting to remain in "the middle class".

- Keen observers have long discovered that "the future" will take place in Asia and certainly not in Europe/US.

Next question: Why is it that "asian currencies" are gaining against "western currencies"?
What could possibly be the reason? The services of a clairvoyant are not needed, I insist.

Thailand is nowhere near a middle income country.  The vast majority of Thai people are poor and either uneducated or poorly educated.

 

The Thai people one sees in  Western style restaurants are those who have  upper management positions in banks ; the military or police. or stable industry.

 

In Thailand 1% of the population control 67% of the total wealth. Travel to Issan and see how the average Thai lives or go to the outskirts of Bangkok where  the low paid factory workers or   other minimum wage people  live.

 

Walk around a construction site and  look at all the roadside stalls set up where the construction workers eat- they are not sitting in air conditioned restaurants.

 

While many  more people can purchase consumer goods such as cars- it is always on credit.  Banks give credit cards with a 300K limit to people making 10,000 Baht per month.  HUge numbers of Thai people are way over extended on credit.

 

It is impossible for more people to be brought into middle income unless the following happens-

-Corruption must be limited if not stopped. It is estimated that almost 30% of the National Budget is missing.

 

-English has to be taught to everyone by teachers who are native and acredited.

 

-Students in Universities must be encouraged to go into Computer science or other technical skills.

 

-The military needs to get out of the business of trying to 'run' a country.  They have no skills for this. They are trained for military activities . In addition, thje military needs to get out of state enterprises and privitize these with professional leadership.

 

IMO Thailand is regressing while the rest of South?East Asia is moving forward. Thailand should  have GDP of around 5-6 % to push more people into a real middle class. Instead , due to mismangement it will have only 2.5%.  

[saengd]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Thailand is nowhere near a middle income country.  The vast majority of Thai people are poor and either uneducated or poorly educated.

 

The Thai people one sees in  Western style restaurants are those who have  upper management positions in banks ; the military or police. or stable industry.

 

In Thailand 1% of the population control 67% of the total wealth. Travel to Issan and see how the average Thai lives or go to the outskirts of Bangkok where  the low paid factory workers or   other minimum wage people  live.

 

Walk around a construction site and  look at all the roadside stalls set up where the construction workers eat- they are not sitting in air conditioned restaurants.

 

While many  more people can purchase consumer goods such as cars- it is always on credit.  Banks give credit cards with a 300K limit to people making 10,000 Baht per month.  HUge numbers of Thai people are way over extended on credit.

 

It is impossible for more people to be brought into middle income unless the following happens-

-Corruption must be limited if not stopped. It is estimated that almost 30% of the National Budget is missing.

 

-English has to be taught to everyone by teachers who are native and acredited.

 

-Students in Universities must be encouraged to go into Computer science or other technical skills.

 

-The military needs to get out of the business of trying to 'run' a country.  They have no skills for this. They are trained for military activities . In addition, thje military needs to get out of state enterprises and privitize these with professional leadership.

 

IMO Thailand is regressing while the rest of South?East Asia is moving forward. Thailand should  have GDP of around 5-6 % to push more people into a real middle class. Instead , due to mismangement it will have only 2.5%.  

You are quite correct, Thailand is not a middle income country, it is an upper middle income country!

 

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/thailand

[Suradit69]

19 hours ago, Bullie said:

Tech industry in Thailand is being relocated elsewhere for lack of skilled technicians, and an appalling lack of English skills.

As to the number of graduates churned out by Thai Universities: me thinks it is the wrong question to ask. What is the QUALITY of graduates would be a more appropriate question. Here again, English-speaking and understanding skills (the lingua franca of the world) are sadly missing.

 

What with the dwindling number of tourists, and all the other navel staring qualities the Thai posses, I would say they are rapidly progressing towards the exit, instead of aspiring to even BE a middle income zone (top 5 percent of pop. excluded).

Thanks for your well documented drivel.

[SiSePuede419]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

In Thailand, the distribution of adults by wealth range is heavily concentrated at the bottom end of the wealth spectrum. Precisely, 91.7 percent of adults belong in the under-US$10,000 wealth band, 7.5 percent in the between US$10,000 and US$100,000 band, and 0.7 percent in the between US$100,000 and US$1 million band. Only 0.1 percent are members of the over-US$1 million wealth range. This translates into a high-income inequality value of 90.2 on the Gini index.

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/growing-gap-between-richest-and-poorest-thais

 

 

 

If the median income in Thailand is $10,000 a year, that means half are below and half are above.

 

$10K USD is 25,000 a month here. 

 

You can live like a King here on that kind of money @ 40B per bowl of Noodles and maximum 30B per Government hospital visit.  Well, a King in a 3000B studio apartment & motorcycle. ????

 

Contrast that with the median income of 40K a year in America or even less in Europe.

 

Can people really afford a similar lifestyle there on the median income?

 

Doubtful.  Check out the price for lunch in Switzerland.  What?  About $32 per person?

 

Everything is relative, mis amigos.

 

[Chongalulu]

20 hours ago, Bullie said:

Tech industry in Thailand is being relocated elsewhere for lack of skilled technicians, and an appalling lack of English skills.

As to the number of graduates churned out by Thai Universities: me thinks it is the wrong question to ask. What is the QUALITY of graduates would be a more appropriate question. Here again, English-speaking and understanding skills (the lingua franca of the world) are sadly missing.

 

What with the dwindling number of tourists, and all the other navel staring qualities the Thai posses, I would say they are rapidly progressing towards the exit, instead of aspiring to even BE a middle income zone (top 5 percent of pop. excluded).

Succinct, to which I would add look at Thailand’s lowly and worsening position in the PISA educational tables fir a glimpse of the future....and the average IQ.