UK Retiree - Does my present full pension allowance continue?

[PaulPatterson68]

Not sure how you put the question but here are my facts .

I receive a full single allowance UK pension for a male British citizen for the last two years because the last 2 years I have been granted full UK residence .

Before the last 2 years I was non resident living in Thailand since the age of 65.  I am now 78 years of age.

My pension was frozen as from age 65 at the rate of conception until I returned to UK and applied for residential status and thus my pension has been increased to current single man's allowance.

I'm considering returning to live again in Thailand, which means I will surrender my UK residential status.

My question is:  Does my present full pension allowance continue?

Does the DHSS take into consideration that I have fulfilled 2 years UK residence and allow the full present pension to continue to be paid .when living in Thailand.

I realise it will again be frozen, but at what rate?  The present rate or the rate as at 65 years of age.

Thanks for any assistance in answering my question.
Cheers Paul

[metisdead]

Moving to the Home Country forum for knowledgeable answers.

[PaulPatterson68]

Thanks for moving to a better place in the forum

[Jip99]

Pensions come under the auspices of DWP (Department for Work and Pensions).

 

Your pension will be frozen at the prevailing rate when you move to Thailand (if you advise them).

[OJAS]

I suggest that you contact the International Pension Centre, as per the link below (by copying and pasting your first post above, perhaps?), for a definitive answer to your question:-

 

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/ipc/personal-details

Edited January 11, 2020 by OJAS

[Kwasaki]

IF you come back Thailand to live for good, your present pension will be frozen.

If you go back UK from Thailand every year for something like 180 days or so you can maintain your annual pension increases.

If you stay Thailand for more than I think 2 years you can go back and stay UK for only 2 years if you want your present pension to be the same when you re-enter Thailand.

That's how how I understand it.

 

 

[izod10]

If you tell DWP you are coming back to Thailand it will be frozen, ,   but if y do not tell,no way of knowing one way or another,i  no punishments,no pack drill       f prepared to give up almost 80 per month OK     Aprils rise

Edited January 12, 2020 by izod10

[nglodnig]

40 minutes ago, izod10 said:

If you tell DWP you are coming back to Thailand it will be frozen, ,   but if y do not tell,no way of knowing one way or another,i  no punishments,no pack drill       f prepared to give up almost 80 per month OK     Aprils rise

Won't the Pensions Authority require periodic proof the person is still alive, and this will reveal where they are living - e.g. by affidavit from a bank official - looks suspicious if it was Bangkok Bank?

[izod10]

13 minutes ago, nglodnig said:

Won't the Pensions Authority require periodic proof the person is still alive, and this will reveal where they are living - e.g. by affidavit from a bank official - looks suspicious if it was Bangkok Bank?

If UK address ,no proof of life,.  Transferwise onward via that site

 

  officialdom can see bank activity in UK bank

Edited January 12, 2020 by izod10

[Letseng]

16 hours ago, Jip99 said:

Pensions come under the auspices of DWP (Department for Work and Pensions).

 

Your pension will be frozen at the prevailing rate when you move to Thailand (if you advise them).

An honest person does advise them.

[izod10]

39 minutes ago, Letseng said:

An honest person does advise them.

Do not have to be honest/dishonest, nothing dwp can do about anything, except freeze the pension, pointless exercise

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

If UK address ,no proof of life,.  Transferwise onward via that site

 

  officialdom can see bank activity in UK bank

 

No they can’t.....

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

 but if y do not tell,no way of knowing one way or another,i  no punishments,no pack drill 

Firstly, I think the qualifying time in the UK is 6 months to be able to return at with a pension frozen at the current level.  Visits to the UK entitles you to the full current pension, even if it's just for a week.  But it will revert back to the frozen amount on return.

A long time friend on another forum, since passed away, was claiming the full pension along with 'cold weather allowance' for years.  He used a UK address.  However, he received a letter at his UK address around the time he would have received his cold weather allowance.  Basically the letter said - 'You are not entitled to the allowance as you live in Thailand'.  He spent the remaining years of his life having 50 quid deducted from his pension every month to pay back the overpayments.

 

They have ways of finding out.

[Jip99]

44 minutes ago, Letseng said:

An honest person does advise them.

 

I am sure they do.

 

 

Not everyone advises them.

[HHTel]

4 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

No they can’t.....

Quote

It is not unusual to see DWP trawling through through several accounts to see what the income and outgoings have been. In cases involving bank accounts the DWP will usually ask for your cooperation in getting the accounts but if you refuse they could obtain a court order and get the information from the bank directly.

 

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, nglodnig said:

Won't the Pensions Authority require periodic proof the person is still alive, and this will reveal where they are living - e.g. by affidavit from a bank official - looks suspicious if it was Bangkok Bank?

 

I think you are complicating things. The pensioner needs a U.K. address - DWP will send the life certificate that address. Anyone (for example who can countersign a passport application) can sign. Doesn’t have to be a bank official, and don’t even think about affidavits.

[izod10]

55 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Firstly, I think the qualifying time in the UK is 6 months to be able to return at with a pension frozen at the current level.  Visits to the UK entitles you to the full current pension, even if it's just for a week.  But it will revert back to the frozen amount on return.

A long time friend on another forum, since passed away, was claiming the full pension along with 'cold weather allowance' for years.  He used a UK address.  However, he received a letter at his UK address around the time he would have received his cold weather allowance.  Basically the letter said - 'You are not entitled to the allowance as you live in Thailand'.  He spent the remaining years of his life having 50 quid deducted from his pension every month to pay back the overpayments.

 

They have ways of finding out.

<snip> Of course you can justly prove this as a happening.   First glance at penalties from DWP site  not sanctionable,  cannot take ,remove adjust pension,...…

   ..now I could be wrong here if you state he was on winter fuel payment  yes they may well take  50 pound a week off him for maximum of 3 years overpayment ie 200 pounds xs 3 years

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, HHTel said:

 

Exactly.

 

They can’t see anything unless you provide it, or they obtain a court order.

 

Get to that stage and you are in deep doo-doo anyway - and it would take more than not declaring non-residency to take it that far. They are usually happy to stop those who not advised them - and at worst a repayment programme without interest or penalty.

 

In the OP’s position I would take a 15 month holiday to Thailand (single entry retirement visa + 12 month extension), then decide whether the move is permanent.

[evadgib]

58 minutes ago, Letseng said:

An honest person does advise them.

A dishonest Govt policy make many regret doing so.

The OP should keep quiet.

[HHTel]

46 minutes ago, izod10 said:

of course you can justly prove this as a happening.   First glance at penalties from DWP site  not sanctionable,  cannot take ,remove adjust pension,...…

   ..now I could be wrong here if you state he was on winter fuel payment  yes they may well take  50 pound a week off him for maximum of 3 years overpayment ie 200 pounds xs 3 years

I wish he was still alive so he could prove it to you.  He was a very popular guy here so everyone knew of his problem.  He sought advice but was told that there was nothing he could do and should be thankful he wasn't done for fraud.

You are referring to the 'State pension'.  However, before the new state pension was formed to pretty much give everyone the same amount, state pensions were topped up with a 'pension credit' which is a benefit as is the cold weather allowances.  It would come under benefit fraud and that is certainly a case that can be prosecuted.  In this case, he took the lesser of the evils.  If the DWP had taken it to court, he would have been in very serious trouble.

Even as a single man, when my state pension became due, I was told that I'm entitled to pension credit (albeit at around 2 pounds 50.  That gets smaller as your pension increases depending upon inflation and the minimum living wage.

Pension credit on the current system, I believe, doesn't exist any more.

[izod10]

26 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

I think you are complicating things. The pensioner needs a U.K. address - DWP will send the life certificate that address. Anyone (for example who can countersign a passport application) can sign. Doesn’t have to be a bank official, and don’t even think about affidavits.

The only correspondence received from DWP will be winter fuel allowance, and rise in OAP,if anyone of the above gets sent back to DWP ,then investigation (proof of life)will be sent

[izod10]

15 minutes ago, HHTel said:

I wish he was still alive so he could prove it to you.  He was a very popular guy here so everyone knew of his problem.  He sought advice but was told that there was nothing he could do and should be thankful he wasn't done for fraud.

You are referring to the 'State pension'.  However, before the new state pension was formed to pretty much give everyone the same amount, state pensions were topped up with a 'pension credit' which is a benefit as is the cold weather allowances.  It would come under benefit fraud and that is certainly a case that can be prosecuted.  In this case, he took the lesser of the evils.  If the DWP had taken it to court, he would have been in very serious trouble.

Even as a single man, when my state pension became due, I was told that I'm entitled to pension credit (albeit at around 2 pounds 50.  That gets smaller as your pension increases depending upon inflation and the minimum living wage.

Pension credit on the current system, I believe, doesn't exist any more.

Now this has nothing to do with state pension,it is pension credit,totally different.   Yes will lead to prosecution if you haven't paid for the pension how the hell can you expect anything ?    get rid of the pension credit side of it then its Happy New Year

 

Pension credit does still exist,and will lead eventually to civil disorder,especially amongst muslim population,no more obtaining free pension and clearing off to homeland,2x4weeks maximum out of GB,now face prospect of a Welsh hillside instead....Universal Credit is heading that way too

Edited January 12, 2020 by izod10

[HHTel]

2 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Now this has nothing to do with state pension,it is pension credit,totally different.   Yes will lead to prosecution if you haven't paid for the pension how the hell can you expect anything ?    get rid of the pension credit side of it then its Happy New Year

Agreed.  However, the cold weather allowance is automatic as is pension credit.  So you say get rid of those benefits and it'll be fine.  How do you propose doing that?  You would have to say that you're not entitled to it!

Why?  "Because I don't live in the UK".  In that case, we need details of when you left and your pension will be frozen from that time.

You can't win in the long term.

[izod10]

4 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Agreed.  However, the cold weather allowance is automatic as is pension credit.  So you say get rid of those benefits and it'll be fine.  How do you propose doing that?  You would have to say that you're not entitled to it!

Why?  "Because I don't live in the UK".  In that case, we need details of when you left and your pension will be frozen from that time.

You can't win in the long term.

live in Spain,no cold weather payments,  or spanish PO box,still keep increases 

[CGW]

1 hour ago, Letseng said:

An honest person does advise them.

But unfortunately its questionable if they treat the "honest" person using the same standards?

[Presnock]

I blv the UK banks are signatories to the new intl law trying to counter money laundering and avoiding taxes owed.  This allows the govt to review accounts of those living overseas or doing banking overseas so even if the retiree sent the funds to a local UK bank and then forwarded same to his Thai bank (also signatory to the new law) then the UK would see his funds going regularly to Thailand.   That is my opinion anyway about the moving of funds internationally and govt legally snooping abilities today.

 

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

live in Spain,no cold weather payments,  or spanish PO box,still keep increases 

Ok.  You know best.  Just pile on the lies.  That should do it.  Just keep up with the subterfuge and for what?  State pension increases are very small and in the first few years would hardly be noticed.

Don't you think that any action proposed by you would raise questions in the DWP?

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, izod10 said:

live in Spain,no cold weather payments,  or spanish PO box,still keep increases 

For now you'll keep the increases, didn't the Government announce fairly recently that these pension increases would only be guaranteed for two years?

[peterpop]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

Firstly, I think the qualifying time in the UK is 6 months to be able to return at with a pension frozen at the current level.  Visits to the UK entitles you to the full current pension, even if it's just for a week.  But it will revert back to the frozen amount on return.

A long time friend on another forum, since passed away, was claiming the full pension along with 'cold weather allowance' for years.  He used a UK address.  However, he received a letter at his UK address around the time he would have received his cold weather allowance.  Basically the letter said - 'You are not entitled to the allowance as you live in Thailand'.  He spent the remaining years of his life having 50 quid deducted from his pension every month to pay back the overpayments.

 

They have ways of finding out.

I want to re instate my pension to its full value, who doesn't.  I asked IPC how long I had to stay in UK to restore it permanently.  They told me there was not a set time, nor a set check list of how you qualified.  I was told there was a committee at a level above them who reviewed such cases and they had to be convinced that you had made a clean break with Thailand.  How they investigated this was not known.

I have a friend who most certainly spends more than 6 months every year in Thailand with his Thai wife but gets full entitlement. He has never officially told IPC that he has left UK.  I was stupid to do so.

Recently I asked every political party what their attitude was to 'Frozen Pensions' and not one of them stated clearly that they would restore the pensions and rescind the legislation.

In April I will lose another 54 gbp [my marriage allowance].

[izod10]

3 hours ago, HHTel said:

Firstly, I think the qualifying time in the UK is 6 months to be able to return at with a pension frozen at the current level.  Visits to the UK entitles you to the full current pension, even if it's just for a week.  But it will revert back to the frozen amount on return.

A long time friend on another forum, since passed away, was claiming the full pension along with 'cold weather allowance' for years.  He used a UK address.  However, he received a letter at his UK address around the time he would have received his cold weather allowance.  Basically the letter said - 'You are not entitled to the allowance as you live in Thailand'.  He spent the remaining years of his life having 50 quid deducted from his pension every month to pay back the overpayments.

 

They have ways of finding out.

Ok.  You know best.  Just pile on the lies.  That should do it.  Just keep up with the subterfuge and for what?  State pension increases are very small and in the first few years would hardly be noticed.

Don't you think that any action proposed by you would raise questions in the DWP?

Seems to be a lack of understanding here Sunshine. The OP clearly was asking regards state pension,you are clearly on about pension credit,just seems a solid waste of two seconds reading your gobbledegook

  Now your second statementState Pension increases are not small ,4 percent to top rated OApensioner in region of 80GBP per month   pension credit nowhere near

 

Subterfuge...hardly    For the average Joe here,that is 4 percent (compounded) ,10 percent,GBP upswing,plus anyone public sector  around 5percent in April

 

  No ,I think those about to lose the dependents allowance,and swift change of address are in the firing line,was a poisone chalice that allowance

     Anyway cheers,thanks for non-advise sorry for anone on  pension credit,near it or just out of it,not much fun