Bangkok School of Management (BSM) & European Global School Paris (EGS)

[philipnz]

Hi.  I am a recent (Dec 2019) graduate (BAEd) of European Global School (EGS) affiliated by Bangkok School of Management (BSM) in Bangkok.

I was referred to this online study course and did my research, albeit one bad "fake" news topic on google (2007), all seemed aboveboard.

Until completion, diploma in hand and time to authenticate (25 Dec 2019)!

I went to the point of referral BSM provided to get my degree authenticated (Mr G Fields, Paris), and he and the French Embassy Thailand, and MOFA France, tell me that EGS's "documentation" no longer meets the French MOFA requirements.  I'm advised this is a documentation problem, not accreditation!

BSM advise this is a very recent change/problem and that I should just be patient. They are working 24/7 to sort the problem, but the issue is between EGS and MOFA.

Many weeks on, BSM no longer return my emails.  EGS also do not reply, and I note from their website, their board of management/trustee and contact info for head office Paris, are both now under construction!  The alarm bells keep ringing.

I want to reach out to those December 2019 graduates of BSM/EGS who are experiencing authentication issues, and others who can share or have experienced problems, and also those that have had no previous issue with EGS document authentication.

BSM and EGS are conspicuous by their silence.  I don't foresee a quick remedy here and like me, you may have studied many years and paid big money for what I'm now thinking could end up to be a worthless degree.

If you are like me, or know or hear anything, I'd appreciate contact.  

Here's hoping!

Cheers Philip

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by philipnz

[KK321]

Hi, there.

 

I almost did this course, I don't understand how, because everything was verified. 

I actually went through the effort to try an validate them, even going so far as to find a French translator to help talk. Everything came through that it was OK, talked to the education ministry, rang embassy and even checked and verified through the degree checker.

However I didn't end up doing the course, due to money restrictions because something came up.

 

I really hope it comes through for you.

 

As it didn't at all seem like a scam. Was the course hard? Did you have many assignments etc to do? Just out of curiosity.

 

Maybe its just problems and they are really trying to resolve it? Try getting a French national to get on the phone and help ring them in france and talk directly with Education ministry people.... give all the previous paper work copies (I have some if you need it, shoot me a PM if so) that verify it.

 

All the best

 

 

 

[IntEdSource]

@philipnz Your instincts are right on this. Due to Thailand's strong libel laws, I won't say much here, but do a few things:

• Look up the "head office" in Paris and go to Google's street view. Do you see any signs or any indication whatsoever of a university, or even an office, being there? Compare what you see to the website's images.
• Google search each of the people listed under the Deans & Faculty page (which itself doesn't reflect how universities typically publish full directories of their faculty) using exact searches (with the names in quotations) and look for their LinkedIn profiles, as well as any other content. Do you notice something about their locations? (Note the plural.)
• In particular, pay attention to what you find for the person listed as their Head of Institutions. What do you find in relation to his background? What other institutions does he seem to be connected to? 
• Try to verify some of the data on their Facts & Figures page. Can you find external sources to corroborate any of what you see there?

 

This has been ongoing for years in Bangkok with particular people connected to this institution and unfortunately have never been held accountable.

[milo0485]

Hello!

I am a fellow graduate and understand your concerns. Fortunately, I work outside of Thailand and didn't require any attestation for me to use EGS degree to obtain and settle into a very good job as a teacher. 

 

First of all, to address this current issue, let's keep a few things in mind and be objective instead of irrational and emotional. 

 

The https://www.education.gouv.fr/acce_public/search.php official French government website still indicates that EGS is very much a recognized Private, Independent University in France under the care of the Ministry of Higher Education, Research and Innovation. As far as I am aware, both BSM and EGS never claimed that awards from EGS are the same as French Public University awards. They did, on their website, make this fact very openly and clearly known to each and every student or potential student. I remember sitting in front of BSM staff and being lectured about the difference between French public university vs. French private university awards. Only after I was clear about this distinction they enrolled me. So, it was my responsibility to understand this difference in the first place. Since France is a centrally governed country for its national and higher education, the "recognition" is the most important legal clearance I needed to be assured of. And this, is in fact, a reality as seen on the official government website https://www.education.gouv.fr/acce_public/search.php.

 

It is also a fact that prior to December 2019, previous graduates already obtained (successfully) attestation from MOFA France, as well as French Embassy in Thailand and MOFA Thailand. It is indeed a recent change in policy by the French government, that no attestations are done by embassies outside of France anymore, especially if the documents are issued by a French entity. Hence, the need for all EGS graduates to have their documents attested by MOFA in France. However, despite the fact that previously MOFA had already attested several of EGS graduates' documents as evidence in the images below, the recent change in policy requires that EGS makes some amendments to the wording used in the degree document being requested for attestation. Another close friend of mine is in the same situation; he has also been waiting for a few weeks - and still asked to wait because EGS has sent a few revised versions of the degree document for feedback from MOFA through their legal person, (Mr. G Fields, Paris) and awaiting for finalization, before the next attestation could occur. This does not mean that EGS is not recognized anymore. Countries do change policies and such change of policies affect organizations operating in the countries. As soon as MOFA approves a version of the degree document submitted by EGS - EGS has promised that they would reissue revised degree documents to its graduates requiring MOFA attestation, upon which graduates could approach MOFA France for attestation purposes. 

 

Dealing with the government does take time. Let's understand that when it comes to the government, neither BSM, nor EGS can control the timelines of when things are delivered. This is true in France, or anywhere else in the world. 

 

I am sure that BSM and EGS did not reply to you beyond a certain point because you are asking them the same question over and over again and getting upset over nothing, just as my close friend did. 

 

As adults, we should attempt to understand things for what they are (factually), and consequently, engage in more mature, composed course of action. 

 

I am very sure that EGS is doing its part - and will reconnect with all its graduates once things with MOFA are finalized and ready to move forward. Until then, let's support our alma mater and not get distracted by challenges such as this. 

 

Lastly, I wish to share with everyone another very important fact which BSM shared with my close friend again, just recently. BSM only launched EGS programmes in Thailand after getting a 100% confirmation from the Campus France Head (at that time in 2016) of the Embassy of France in Thailand. Here below is the email from Campus France Head of the Embassy of France in Thailand which clearly states that EGS is a fully recognized Private, Independent University in Paris, France, authorized to confer Bachelor, Master and Doctorate degrees. 

 

In conclusion, I would advise you (and everyone else in the same situation as my close friend is) to be patient and work hand-in-hand with your alma mater to resolve the matter, instead of jumping into unnecessary negative conclusions. Always focus on facts, and not emotionally based opinions and hearsay. 

 

Wishing all my fellow EGS graduates the best of everything! 

Edited January 15, 2020 by milo0485

[dakineto]

4 hours ago, milo0485 said:

They did, on their website, make this fact very openly and clearly known to each and every student or potential student. I remember sitting in front of BSM staff and being lectured about the difference between French public university vs. French private university awards. Only after I was clear about this distinction they enrolled me. So, it was my responsibility to understand this difference in the first place. Since France is a centrally governed country for its national and higher education, the "recognition" is the most important legal clearance I needed to be assured of. And this, is in fact, a reality as seen on the official government

I studied at BSM as well and never heard about that difference or anyone there explained it to me.   

 

Sorry, but the whole response sounds like to be written by BSM/EGS and not a fellow graduate.  

[milo0485]

1 hour ago, dakineto said:

I studied at BSM as well and never heard about that difference or anyone there explained it to me.   

 

Sorry, but the whole response sounds like to be written by BSM/EGS and not a fellow graduate.  

don't let insecure thoughts ruin something amazing! ????

[IntEdSource]

21 hours ago, dakineto said:

I studied at BSM as well and never heard about that difference or anyone there explained it to me.   

 

Sorry, but the whole response sounds like to be written by BSM/EGS and not a fellow graduate.  

 

You are exactly right @dakineto and the response you received from a brand new account is hilarious: 'don't let insecure thoughts ruin something amazing'. In other words, don't listen to the person who has a record of posting on this forum and said that he is also a former student.

You are also right about BSM writing it. They simply copied what they already have uploaded on their website: https://www.bsm.ac.th/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/European-Global-School-EGS-@-BSM-Thailand-RecognitionProfile-Information-.pdf

The many red flags should be obvious. Again, people should be objective and rational by researching facts on their own.

• The second page shows BSM's certificate from the ASIC (http://www.asicuk.com/international-directory). Also listed on that page is European International University (EIU), another Paris-based 'university' with no actual physical location. (Check Google street view again. It's a storefront in a major shopping area!)
  • Look at the people listed on the team page of the EIU website: https://eiu.ac/who-we-are/team. Pay close attention to the ones in Business Development and Executive Board. Do exact Google searches (with quotation marks) of all of the people. What kind of results do you find? Do these reflect what you what expect to see in the profiles of deans, university presidents and other executives? Do you notice similarities in many of the other institutions they are connected to on their very brief LinkedIn profiles, especially in terms of location?
• The third page shows a letter from EGS titled 'Certification of Affiliation'. Look at the recipient. Does that person also appear on the EGS and EIU websites? Google that person. What results do you find? Look at the sender and Google that person. Does this appear to be the profile of a university vice president?
• The seventh page is identified as a 'Letter of Confirmation from French Embassy in Thailand'. It is not from the French Embassy. Campus France Thailand is a consulting agency, identified as such on their Facebook page. Google search the person who signed the letter. Is there any indication that they ever worked for the French Embassy? Contact the embassy and ask them. What is their response?

 

There is an extraordinary amount of effort in the rest of the document put towards defending the validity of EGS and by extension BSM and EIU. Like all of the other points, this should raise a red flag. Do thorough research and form your own opinion about all of these institutions, especially in relation to institutions in France: https://www.campusfrance.org/en/certification-labels-institutes-France. Do not fall for accusations of being irrational, emotional or negative.

A very good assessment of some of the other red flags can be found here: https://www.quora.com/Is-the-European-Global-University-and-European-Global-School-accredited-by-ASIC.

[thequietman]

EGS is offering "full" Bachelor's degrees in as little as six months.

 

ASIC recently "accredited" a college where 80 out of 250 total students had complained to the Office of Consumer Protection, and the OCP has accepted their case and taking the college to court.

 

When the CEO of ASIC was contacted by this large group of complaining students he refused to even listen to them or accept any evidence of the offending college's actions.

 

Take what you want from this. ????

[thequietman]

On their Facebook profile, European Global School - University (Paris) has stated that it is "delighted to announce that our degrees are equivalent to regionally accredited degrees from the United States of America." They've even put up the FCE, Inc. logo.

 

A Foreign Credential Evaluations, Inc. (part of AICE) representative saw the facebook post. This was the response in the comment section:

 

"Foreign Credential Evaluations, Inc. does not endorse EGS transcripts and/or degrees as equivalent to U.S. regionally accredited degrees. Furthermore, the FCE trademark is copyrighted and has been used without permission. Please disregard the above post made by EGS."

 

Link: https://www.facebook.com/europeanglobalschool/?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARA7gLai0TDBIN3H_B06b13FJMZD5haYqdxPgWOeXvTC5oYppqbjJNW9bNu03lPq4ZnB90e7kXbpJ1ME&hc_ref=ARTIux9Oodo-0caVS4Vt57ufMp1X5YH9_jYAisJwmgIjU5HG4UFS2LFq_0uWC5JVdQY&fref=nf

[GoDucks]

I am a graduate of EGS and have known a number of other students.

 

Luckily, I have never had to deal with authenticating my degree.  But others have and its been a nightmare.

 

I do not think anyone who has dealt with EGS can say they are at all happy with their response to problems or even less complicated things like getting their graduation documents, which takes months.

[GoDucks]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:20 PM, thequietman said:

EGS is offering "full" Bachelor's degrees in as little as six months.

 

ASIC recently "accredited" a college where 80 out of 250 total students had complained to the Office of Consumer Protection, and the OCP has accepted their case and taking the college to court.

 

When the CEO of ASIC was contacted by this large group of complaining students he refused to even listen to them or accept any evidence of the offending college's actions.

 

Take what you want from this. ????

Yes this is absolutely true.  A student rep told the ASIC CEO she would like to meet him to show him all the documentation for the students legal complaints about the college recently "accredited: and the CEO said he was not interested.

[dakineto]

On 1/12/2020 at 3:15 PM, philipnz said:

I went to the point of referral BSM provided to get my degree authenticated (Mr G Fields, Paris), and he and the French Embassy Thailand, and MOFA France, tell me that EGS's "documentation" no longer meets the French MOFA requirements.  I'm advised this is a documentation problem, not accreditation!

Did you get your degree authenticated by MOFA meanwhile?