Want to change my multiple entry Tourist visa to NON O at Chiang Mai Whats required

[tigerbalm]

HI As the title says Want to change my multiple entry Tourist visa to NON O  at chiang mai  with the intention of then changing the NoN O to a extention of stay (1 year)

 

Whats required?

 

I am single over 60 and at the moment have a multiple entry tourist visa which finishes on Feb 27th... 27 days from now +/-

Dont have 800000 seasoned in a Thai bank.

Could show a foreign remittance of 65 k each month in to a Thai bank

Have a 1 year rental contract.

Any thing else i would need.

 

 Regards

TB

[ubonjoe]

If  you have the 800k baht in the bank you can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) at immigration. The 800k baht only has to be in the bank on the day you apply.

Requirements are here: https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf  But you will need at least 21 day remaining of the 60 day entry from your visa at Chiang Mai immigration instead of the 15 days shown.

You could also show transfers of at least 65k baht from abroad (not shown on the list). How many transfers have you done and are they shown as international transfers in your bank book.

 

[tigerbalm]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If  you have the 800k baht in the bank you can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) at immigration. The 800k baht only has to be in the bank on the day you apply.

Requirements are here: https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf  But you will need at least 21 day remaining of the 60 day entry from your visa at Chiang Mai immigration instead of the 15 days shown.

You could also show transfers of at least 65k baht from abroad (not shown on the list). How many transfers have you done and are they shown as international transfers in your bank book.

 

As i mentioned before i dont have 800000k seasoned in a Thai Bank so any thing pertaining to that is not relevent in my case.

 

I have a Bangkok Bank book showing monthly deposits from overseas  shown as TTF of over 65000 per month for the last 12 months  Jan 1st 2019 to Jan 30th 2010  just over 1 year(But it is an income not a pension)

Would this be ok?

Regards

TB

 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

I have a Bangkok Bank book showing monthly deposits from overseas  shown as TTF of over 65000 per month for the last 12 months  Jan 1st 2019 to Jan 30th 2010  just over 1 year(But it is an income not a pension)

Would this be ok?

Yes it would be accepted. It does not have to be from a pension. You may be asked for the source of your income that could be many things. For example withdrawals from savings, investments and etc.

[Tanoshi]

Depends where the income originates from and if requested you can show evidence of such.

 

Supporting Documents Order 300/2562 attached to 548/252 dated Sept 27th 2019.

3. Evidence of Income such as such as a retirement Pension, or Interest or Dividends.Order 548-2562. changed 327-2557 (2019) Eng.pdf

[tigerbalm]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it would be accepted. It does not have to be from a pension. You may be asked for the source of your income that could be many things. For example withdrawals from savings, investments and etc.

Ok there is just one thing.

I went to chiang Mai immigration today and took all the relevant documents 

Copy of rental agreement, copy of landlords house book and their ID

Letter From Bangkok Bank showing overseas transfer's of 650000 +

Passport photocopies filled in TM86 form with photo attached.

 

Handed it is and the Immigration guy said i had to show 800000 bht

no no no i said i am going on the 650000 income method.

No he said your embassy stopped issuing income statements ( United Kingdom ) along with 4 other foreign embassy's last year

So bottom line is i could not get one.

 

Now you tell me what i thought all along was correct, so how would i resubmit this.

It all boils down to my interpretation of things compared to his, flogging a dead horse comes to mind LOL

Any suggestions on what i should do would be greatly appreciated

Regards

TB

[scubascuba3]

2 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Ok there is just one thing.

I went to chiang Mai immigration today and took all the relevant documents 

Copy of rental agreement, copy of landlords house book and their ID

Letter From Bangkok Bank showing overseas transfer's of 650000 +

Passport photocopies filled in TM86 form with photo attached.

 

Handed it is and the Immigration guy said i had to show 800000 bht

no no no i said i am going on the 650000 income method.

No he said your embassy stopped issuing income statements ( United Kingdom ) along with 4 other foreign embassy's last year

So bottom line is i could not get one.

 

Now you tell me what i thought all along was correct, so how would i resubmit this.

It all boils down to my interpretation of things compared to his, flogging a dead horse comes to mind LOL

Any suggestions on what i should do would be greatly appreciated

Regards

TB

what you experienced is what they told me at Jomtien. If your embassy no longer issues an income cert some thai logic takes over and they no longer accept income method

[tigerbalm]

7 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Depends where the income originates from and if requested you can show evidence of such.

 

Supporting Documents Order 300/2562 attached to 548/252 dated Sept 27th 2019.

3. Evidence of Income such as such as a retirement Pension, or Interest or Dividends.Order 548-2562. changed 327-2557 (2019) Eng.pdf

yeah last time i asked about that they seemed to latch on to oh you need pension income, i have a income and a pension but one is no good with out the other.

i really dont think they understood the such as and the or bit (such as a pension or Dividends) there interpretation is just blinkered to Pension.

Regards

TB

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Ok there is just one thing.

I went to chiang Mai immigration today and took all the relevant documents 

Copy of rental agreement, copy of landlords house book and their ID

Letter From Bangkok Bank showing overseas transfer's of 650000 +

Passport photocopies filled in TM86 form with photo attached.

 

Handed it is and the Immigration guy said i had to show 800000 bht

no no no i said i am going on the 650000 income method.

No he said your embassy stopped issuing income statements ( United Kingdom ) along with 4 other foreign embassy's last year

So bottom line is i could not get one.

 

Now you tell me what i thought all along was correct, so how would i resubmit this.

It all boils down to my interpretation of things compared to his, flogging a dead horse comes to mind LOL

Any suggestions on what i should do would be greatly appreciated

Regards

TB

Same issue with Roi Et Immigration earlier this year.

Had to go above the Supervisors head to the Boss and threw copies of their own Order 138/2557 dated Dec 2018 at them.

This order was in light of certain Embassies no longer issuing Income letters and instructed Immigration offices to accept monthly overseas transfers into a Thai bank as an alternative.

All these amendments appear to have confused many IO's exactly what is acceptable.

Order 138-2557 (2014) - extension documents Eng.pdf

 

Total time spent at the IO was over 4 hours arguing the criteria.

Eventually they conceded.

The biggest problem was they couldn't understand the Passbook or Statement entries, so easier to request the 800K method.

 

[tigerbalm]

16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Same issue with Roi Et Immigration earlier this year.

Had to go above the Supervisors head to the Boss and threw copies of their own Order 138/2557 dated Dec 2018 at them.

This order was in light of certain Embassies no longer issuing Income letters and instructed Immigration offices to accept monthly overseas transfers into a Thai bank as an alternative.

All these amendments appear to have confused many IO's exactly what is acceptable.

Order 138-2557 (2014) - extension documents Eng.pdf 149.01 kB · 0 downloads

 

Total time spent at the IO was over 4 hours arguing the criteria.

Eventually they conceded.

The biggest problem was they couldn't understand the Passbook or Statement entries, so easier to request the 800K method.

 

Hi Thanks for that spot on very much in tune with my thoughts..

Really brave of you to go above the supervisors head (The phrase loosing face would be enough to have pulled me up in my tracks and walk out they do strange things when loosing face you know LOl.

Just one point you say Order 138/2557 dated Dec 2018 a.

I looked at the document ant it seemed to suggest dates of 2007 2013 and 2014 but i could not see any recent 2018 amendments.

Is there a Thai version of it as well?

Regards

TB

[ubonjoe]

55 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

I looked at the document ant it seemed to suggest dates of 2007 2013 and 2014 but i could not see any recent 2018 amendments.

He posted the original police order.

Tha amendment is here. 

Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income

Amendment to police order 138/2557 Thai text

[tigerbalm]

26 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He posted the original police order.

Tha amendment is here. 

Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income

Amendment to police order 138/2557 1.9 MB · 147 downloads  Thai text

Thats great, where do you guys get all this from, brilliant stuff.

Just one thing can you lay your hands on a English translation so i know where to point any one in the right direction down at immigration.

OK Forget that i have just seen the link for it in English form

Much appreciated any way

Regards

TB

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Thats great, where do you guys get all this from, brilliant stuff.

All of them are here in this pinned topic. https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

[Suradit69]

20 hours ago, tigerbalm said:

Letter From Bangkok Bank showing overseas transfer's of 650000 +

Passport photocopies filled in TM86 form with photo attached.

 

Handed it is and the Immigration guy said i had to show 800000 bht

no no no i said i am going on the 650000 income method.

You mean 65,000

[Max69xl]

22 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

what you experienced is what they told me at Jomtien. If your embassy no longer issues an income cert some thai logic takes over and they no longer accept income method

That's not correct. I know several expats from the UK and US staying in Jomtien which uses the 65k monthly income method, using bank letters and statements (even credit advices) from their banks. My Bangkok Bank branch even went to Immigration early last year and asked them if their bank statement was ok, and it was. This was reported here at TV several times last year. 

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

That's not correct. I know several expats from the UK and US staying in Jomtien which uses the 65k monthly income method, using bank letters and statements (even credit advices) from their banks. My Bangkok Bank branch even went to Immigration early last year and asked them if their bank statement was ok, and it was. This was reported here at TV several times last year. 

how do you explain tigerbalms experience then which is exactly the same as mine?

[BritManToo]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, tigerbalm said:

Now you tell me what i thought all along was correct, so how would i resubmit this.

Through an agent after handing him 20-25kbht.

Chiang Mai immigration like agents.

[gk10002000]

On 1/30/2020 at 1:35 AM, ubonjoe said:

Yes it would be accepted. It does not have to be from a pension. You may be asked for the source of your income that could be many things. For example withdrawals from savings, investments and etc.

But see, that is the problem with "income".  Just withdrawing savings is not an income, even if one is withdrawing cash out of a traditional IRA or 401k which would be classified as income on one's USA tax forms.   I am sure the whole idea of income was a pension or some other source and not just spending down a lump sum.  The monthly transfer method shows nothing except that a person transferred in money in the past.  He could now be broke with no sustainable income the day after the extension is approved and he could be on the street.  To me, the transfers by themselves are just ridiculous.  But I get the system.   Heck, I would not be surprised if Thais start asking more and more questions about the actual income source and future viability of such income.  Sadly the USA embassies literally did not do but still issued an income letter.  Now the Thais are picking up the slack and asking about income sources that many of them would not comprehend as they are not experts in USA IRAs, 401ks, bond interest, stock dividends, or many other financial things.  Trying to explain rental properties, and proving that and giving them your USA 1040 tax forms and attachments with all that personal information?   yech

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

But see, that is the problem with "income".  Just withdrawing savings is not an income, even if one is withdrawing cash out of a traditional IRA or 401k which would be classified as income on one's USA tax forms.   I am sure the whole idea of income was a pension or some other source and not just spending down a lump sum. 

The police order only states some examples of income.

Savings can be a general term. A 401k fund can be considered as savings. 

When they ask for proof ot the source of the income it is intended to be proof of where the funds came from outside the country not the same 65k baht coming in and then being sent out and back again.

[Genericnic]

17 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Through an agent after handing him 20-25kbht.

Chiang Mai immigration like agents.

20-25k baht? I thought my agent was expensive at 15k. 

 

I was planning on doing my conversion from visa exempt to Non-O based on retirement myself. After a lot of research, I decided to go back to my old agent since CM Immigration basically makes up its requirements as it goes along. Even my agent said keeping up with the local requirements can be a challenge. After dealing with the process, the fee was more than worth it. 

 

Best of luck

 

David

[gk10002000]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The police order only states some examples of income.

Savings can be a general term. A 401k fund can be considered as savings. 

When they ask for proof ot the source of the income it is intended to be proof of where the funds came from outside the country not the same 65k baht coming in and then being sent out and back again.

i understand.  but 3 above leaves it open how to show evidence of income, while 4 above seems to be the only thing that really says funds deposited in a Thai  bank.  I know the 65k monthly deposit "requirement" from other writings, but the above order items 3 and 4 seem to allow for the option of showing evidence (3) or depositing stuff (4)

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

i understand.  but 3 above leaves it open how to show evidence of income, while 4 above seems to be the only thing that really says funds deposited in a Thai  bank.  I know the 65k monthly deposit "requirement" from other writings, but the above order items 3 and 4 seem to allow for the option of showing evidence (3) or depositing stuff (4)

Four is for the 800k baht in the bank or a combination of the income and money in the bank. I posted it since 3 has a and/or statement.

[Peter Denis]

On 1/30/2020 at 7:20 AM, tigerbalm said:

...

I have a Bangkok Bank book showing monthly deposits from overseas  shown as TTF of over 65000 per month for the last 12 months  Jan 1st 2019 to Jan 30th 2010  just over 1 year (But it is an income not a pension)

Would this be ok?

...

As mentioned by @ubonjoe that would be OK, as long as you can prove the foreign origin of the monthly transfers (the TTF or alternative foreign origin code, next to the amount in your thai bank-book will do).

 

Of possible interest for other TVF members:

> When you convert to a Non Imm O Visa and use the 'monthly income transfer' method to meet the financial requirement, it is not required to show an unbroken chain of 12 monthly transfers of at least 65.000 THB.

When you entered Thailand again VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa, your application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa at your local IO will be regarded as starting from scratch (irrespective of your history of stay).

So when applying for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement (or marriage) Visa, you only need to show 1 month of monthly income transfer (with foreign origin proven).  And when you apply in the last month of that 90 days for a 1-year extension of stay, you only need to show that you continued with those monthly income transfers (that would be at least 2 more).

[harpman88]

On 1/30/2020 at 12:56 PM, ubonjoe said:

If  you have the 800k baht in the bank you can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) at immigration. The 800k baht only has to be in the bank on the day you apply.

Requirements are here: https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf  But you will need at least 21 day remaining of the 60 day entry from your visa at Chiang Mai immigration instead of the 15 days shown.

You could also show transfers of at least 65k baht from abroad (not shown on the list). How many transfers have you done and are they shown as international transfers in your bank book.

 

Hi Joe,This is just for future ref.,as I'm considering "killing" my current OA (retirement,expires Feb.11,which I've been extending from since 2007) and reentering on a tv at some point, then doing the conversion to/extension from the Non Imm. O. It looks like this can be done from either a single entry tv OR the last month of a multi tv?? (the latter would be my preferred option). As for my current OA,Ive already paid for/had approved a Thai health policy (effective Feb 11),as I really didn't have time to do anything else.and am now waiting for them (Viriyah) to complete processing. Under any circumstances,this will be the 1st and only time I'm going to bother with this,(the Thai HI,that is...what a sham!!) To boot, Ive also noticed the thread about CW (I'm in CMai) requiring OA extenders to already have HI even tho the previous extensions were granted before Oct.31 2019 when the law was passed!! Unbelievable..Anyway.my main question here is about the O conversion from the multi entry tv at some point.  Big thanks in advance,and tip of the hat to both you and Peter Denis .. harp88

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, harpman88 said:

Anyway.my main question here is about the O conversion from the multi entry tv at some point.

Whether you have single entry or multiple entry tourist visa you can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration up to the last 15 days of a 60 day entry the visa allows.

 

[tigerbalm]

On 2/3/2020 at 7:25 PM, ubonjoe said:

Whether you have single entry or multiple entry tourist visa you can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration up to the last 15 days of a 60 day entry the visa allows.

 

Hi ubonjoe.

It is a while ago since i started this thread and was encouraged by your knowledge about the Police order saying what is needed as far as the Income is concerned.

Well went to a Visa agent today, well two in fact and both said i could not change my multiple entry tourist visa in to a  non O using the 65000K income method

This was the basic conversation.

Me- Hi i would like to change my multiple entry tourist visa to a Non 0 (then later to a extension of stay 1 year)

Visa agent- you have 800000k in bank.

Me- no, i want to use the 65000k method

Visa agent- oh can not, new rule,  have to have 800000k in bank.

She went on to say if renewing a 1 year retirement  or extension of stay i could use the 65000k method but if applying first time then i have to have 800000k in the bank, then every subsequent renewal of the extension of stay i could use the 65000k to get it.

 

Am i missing some thing has any body heard of this, seems a bit strange why 800k seasoned in a Thai Bank first time then 65k Income when renewing, why not just have either or but mixing the two seems well bonkers really.

 

Could some one help me out here i only have 30 days of my multiple entry tourist visa left and i need to apply for the Non 0 at least 20 days before the tourist visa runs out.

Is there a different location internal or externally i could try to secure a Non 0

Really appreciate some help here

Regards

TB

 

 

[ubonjoe]

52 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Am i missing some thing has any body heard of this, seems a bit strange why 800k seasoned in a Thai Bank first time then 65k Income when renewing, why not just have either or but mixing the two seems well bonkers really.

Just nonsense from an agent.

See the requirements here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf

You could apply for a 30 day extension of your 60 day entry from you visa and do the application.

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Just nonsense from an agent.

See the requirements here. https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf

You could apply for a 30 day extension of your 60 day entry from you visa and do the application.

Hi Tigerbalm,

UbonJoe always gives sound advice.

But unfortunately in your case the agent might be correct.

Because if you are a US, UK or Australian citizen Chiang-Mai IO insists that when applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa, and wanting to make use of the monthly 65K-income transfer, that you need to provide an embassy issued income-statement to prove the source of the income.  And since the US, UK and Australian embassies don't issue such statements anymore, this additional CM-requirement makes it impossible to use that method, so indeed the only method to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at CM IO is by using the 800K money-in-bank method.

 

[tigerbalm]

28 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi Tigerbalm,

UbonJoe always gives sound advice.

But unfortunately in your case the agent might be correct.

Because if you are a US, UK or Australian citizen Chiang-Mai IO insists that when applying for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa, and wanting to make use of the monthly 65K-income transfer, that you need to provide an embassy issued income-statement to prove the source of the income.  And since the US, UK and Australian embassies don't issue such statements anymore, this additional CM-requirement makes it impossible to use that method, so indeed the only method to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at CM IO is by using the 800K money-in-bank method.

 

Yes what you say seems correct when i went to CM Immigration a few months ago they gave me a list of what was required 800k in the bank or a letter from as you said Embassy confirming a pension of not less than 65k.

The doc that Ubonjoe related to in his reply to me above https://division1.immigration.go.th/download/1551323081128.pdf seems to confirm this here is the part it referrers to...

5.1 A letter of guarantee from the bank in Thailand in

Thai language (Attention: Immigration Commissioner)

5.2 Copy of all entries of the applicant’s passbook

showing that the applicant has a savings or fixed

deposit account of not less than Baht 800,000

(all documents must be in the Applicant’s name)

5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to

Thailand

(Documents under 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3 must be issued

and updated to be the same date of the Application

and all documents must be in the Applicant’s name.)

                        OR

A letter of guarantee from the local or overseas

Embassy or Consulate that proving the monthly

pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000

per month (together with reference documents

showing the source of monthly pension)

But the confusing thing is Ubonjoes post #11 seems to indicate there is a  amendment to include options for proof of income....see below i had to copy and paste the post #11 as i could not figure out how to add it using the quote method.

 

THIS IS THE Ubonjoes POST #11when he says..

On 1/30/2020 at 3:35 PM, ubonjoe said:

He posted the original police order.

Tha amendment is here. 

Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income

Amendment to police order 138/2557 1.9 MB · 182 downloads  Thai text

Why does chiang mai i wonder have a different criteria for securing a Mon o or is this standard thru out the country and what is the alternative i am just looking for a way to remain here long term. 

Regards

TB

[Peter Denis]

13 minutes ago, tigerbalm said:

Why does chiang mai i wonder have a different criteria for securing a Mon o or is this standard thru out the country and what is the alternative i am just looking for a way to remain here long term. 

Hi Tigerbalm,

No, this additional requirement by CM IO is not 'standard', but unfortunately for you CM is one of those rogue IOs that interpret the IO requirements to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa incorrectly.

If you do not have the 800K to apply for the Non Imm O - retirement Visa using the money-in-bank method, your best alternative would be to apply for the Non Imm O - retirement Visa in a thai embassy/consulate of a neighboring country.  E.g. at the Savannakhet consulate you can apply for that Visa without the need for an embassy income-statement.  What you need there is either a pension-statement of +65K monthly pension payments, or money in the bank (not necessarily a thai bank, you can use a foreign bank-account) of at least 800K, or a combination of both (e.g. if your pension payments are less than 65K).

I specifically mention the Savannakhet consulate since it is one of the few places where you can apply both for a 90-day SingelEntry Non Imm O - retirement Visa, as well as for the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  The application requirements are identical, the only difference being the cost of the Visa (2.000 THB for the 90-day SE and 5.000 THB for the 1-year ME).

That - little known - one-year Me Non Imm O - retirement Visa has many advantages: NO need for locking money in a thai bank-account, NO need for the nerve-wrecking yearly extensions at your local IO, NO need for a Re-Entry Permit and NO need for 90-day reporting.  Only disadvantage being that that 1-year ME Visa only provides you on entry with 90-days permissions to stay, at the end of which you need to do a border-run (can be done same day) which will provide you once again with a 90-day permission to stay.  Alternatively you can for each entry also apply for a 30-day extension at your local IO. 

So that Visa can provide you with 15 months IO hassle-free stay in Thailand.

And of course you can also opt to apply for an in-country 1-year extension of stay at your local IO when you get tired of doing those 3-monthly border-runs.

>> I also PM-ed you a comprehensive Roadmap containing all details/options to apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa and subsequent extensions.

To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged in to the Forum.