I'm a Farang, wife passed away and want to transfer condo?

[Syke1911]

Hello,

 

My wife recently passed and we jointly owned a 51% owned condo in Chonburi. The desired goal is to transfer this property to my eldest son.

 

My Thai lawyer is suggesting this will cost approximately 150,000 THB and suggests these are the required steps:

 

- Last will and testament of wife

- Marriage registration between me and wife (notarized and translated to thai language)

- Death certificate of wife (notarized and translated)

- Court order to appoint me as Asset Administrator

- Decree NISI Absolute (don't know what that means)

- Family charts ( don't know what that means)

 

And then bring these documents to the court to register my name in the title deed.

 

I can then transfer this to my son.

 

Appoximate quote of 150,000 THB.

 

Does this sound about right? Any insight?

 

Thanks!

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Syke1911 said:

Does this sound about right? Any insight?

Usually 3% to transfer a property to one of your children.

Why not just leave it as it is, half yours, half dead wifes?

[Syke1911]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Usually 3% to transfer a property to one of your children.

Why not just leave it as it is, half yours, half dead wifes?

Because according to my lawyer, it apparently cannot be transferred to my son unless I have sole ownership.

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Syke1911 said:

Because according to my lawyer, it apparently cannot be transferred to my son unless I have sole ownership.

Why transfer it at all?

Seems to me like a lot of money wasted.

 

PS, sounds like your lawyer's a crook.

Edited February 3, 2020 by BritManToo

[Syke1911]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Why transfer it at all?

Seems to me like a lot of money wasted.

 

PS, sounds like your lawyer's a crook.

Well if I pass away, the condo would go into some sort of Thai probate court from what I gather and my son would need to deal with that process which I'd like to avoid.

[sanuk711]

As it was in both names--You must make sure your condo is part of the 49% allowed to be owned just by farang-----& yes agree with Britmantoo seems a long way to go around it, & way to expensive.

[Golden Triangle]

Decree absolute is only relevant if you were divorced, so as far as I can see that is irrelevant.

 

Family chart no idea, maybe someone else can help on that one.

 

 

[steven100]

speak to a cheaper lawyer ... 

[Peterw42]

OP, how much is the approx value of the condo. A percentage of the 150k would be the land office tranfer fee. The tranfer fee may be most of the amount.

 

How have you achieved joint ownership of the condo, is it company owned ? You mention 51%, is that the building quota (making it a Thai title condo) ? Could ba as easy as changing the company directors names

 

I imagine family chart refers to family tree, show relationship to son etc.

[Orton Rd]

Our neighbor transferred a house to another in Bkk cost about 20k and took 3 full days at 3 different offices, no lawyer involved.

[Syke1911]

17 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Our neighbor transferred a house to another in Bkk cost about 20k and took 3 full days at 3 different offices, no lawyer involved.

The problem seems to be the condo is co-owned by the deceased. This must be rectified so that I am the sole owner, before I can transfer to my son. 

[Syke1911]

31 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, how much is the approx value of the condo. A percentage of the 150k would be the land office tranfer fee. The tranfer fee may be most of the amount.

 

How have you achieved joint ownership of the condo, is it company owned ? You mention 51%, is that the building quota (making it a Thai title condo) ? Could ba as easy as changing the company directors names

 

I imagine family chart refers to family tree, show relationship to son etc.

The condo is worth 3M THB or so. It It is a Thai majority owned condo. My deceased wife and I have joint custody of the condo. 

 

The 150,000 THB fee cited in the post is only to get the condo into my sole custody. The next process would be to transfer it to my son which I gather would have a other transfer fee. 

[Paul Catton]

Dear Syke1911,

 

My sincerest condolences.

 

15 minutes ago, Syke1911 said:

we jointly owned a 51% owned condo

Presumably, the condominium was bought "in name" by your Thai wife establishing the 51% Thai ownership quota.

Is "your eldest son" also progeny from your departed spouse?

 

From the information you have provided below, it would appear that you married outside of Thailand and also she passed away similarly.

     

- Last will and testament of wife

- Marriage registration between me and wife (notarized and translated to thai language)

- Death certificate of wife (notarized and translated)

- Court order to appoint me as Asset Administrator

- Decree NISI Absolute (don't know what that means)

- Family charts ( don't know what that means)

 

It would appear there is scant information posted why the lawyer has suggested decree nisi. 

The decree nisi is a provisional decree of divorce pronounced when the court is satisfied that a person has met the legal and procedural requirements to obtain a divorce. Following the pronouncement of decree nisi, the marriage still exists and you are not yet ‘divorced’. The person seeking the divorce must then wait at least six weeks and one day after the pronouncement of the decree nisi before making their application for the decree absolute. This period can be reduced in certain exceptional circumstances. The decree absolute is the final decree which actually dissolves the marriage. Once this has been granted you are ‘divorced’.

Family charting obviously points to lineage.

 

[Syke1911]

11 minutes ago, Paul Catton said:

Dear Syke1911,

 

My sincerest condolences.

 

Presumably, the condominium was bought "in name" by your Thai wife establishing the 51% Thai ownership quota.

Is "your eldest son" also progeny from your departed spouse?

 

From the information you have provided below, it would appear that you married outside of Thailand and also she passed away similarly.

     

- Last will and testament of wife

- Marriage registration between me and wife (notarized and translated to thai language)

- Death certificate of wife (notarized and translated)

- Court order to appoint me as Asset Administrator

- Decree NISI Absolute (don't know what that means)

- Family charts ( don't know what that means)

 

It would appear there is scant information posted why the lawyer has suggested decree nisi. 

The decree nisi is a provisional decree of divorce pronounced when the court is satisfied that a person has met the legal and procedural requirements to obtain a divorce. Following the pronouncement of decree nisi, the marriage still exists and you are not yet ‘divorced’. The person seeking the divorce must then wait at least six weeks and one day after the pronouncement of the decree nisi before making their application for the decree absolute. This period can be reduced in certain exceptional circumstances. The decree absolute is the final decree which actually dissolves the marriage. Once this has been granted you are ‘divorced’.

Family charting obviously points to lineage.

 

Sorry, to clarify, there are no Thai people involved. I and the wife are Canadian. The desired recipient of this condo is a 100% farang child.

 

The ownership of the condo is majority Thai.

 

Also there has never been a divorce, so not sure where the lawyer is getting that. I just pasted what he wrote me.

 

Thanks

[Peterw42]

OP, it appears you and your wife owned 49% of a company that owns the Condo and a Thai person owns the other 51%, Is that the case ?

What is your relationship to the majority Thai company shareholder ?

 

If the 51% majority share holder is co-operative, it should just be a matter of transferring your 49% of the company to your son, your son would then have the same ownership structure that you and your wife had.

 

In reality you are looking at the transfer of ownership/control of a company, that you own 49% of.

 

By chance, is the 51% majority owner also your Thai lawyer ?

 

 

[Paul Catton]

15 minutes ago, Syke1911 said:

Sorry, to clarify, there are no Thai people involved. I and the wife are Canadian. The desired recipient of this condo is a 100% farang child.

 

The ownership of the condo is majority Thai.

 

Also there has never been a divorce, so not sure where the lawyer is getting that. I just pasted what he wrote me.

 

Thanks

Thank you for the clarification.

Whole new ball park, especially with misconceived interpretations previously being applied. 

 

[Syke1911]

18 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, it appears you and your wife owned 49% of a company that owns the Condo and a Thai person owns the other 51%, Is that the case ?

What is your relationship to the majority Thai company shareholder ?

 

If the 51% majority share holder is co-operative, it should just be a matter of transferring your 49% of the company to your son, your son would then have the same ownership structure that you and your wife had.

 

In reality you are looking at the transfer of ownership/control of a company, that you own 49% of.

 

By chance, is the 51% majority owner also your Thai lawyer ?

 

 

There are no Thais involved. 

 

I'm a Farang with a deceased Farang wife. 

 

The condo complex we own is majority Thai ownership. We own one unit in the complex. 

[Paul Catton]

Your now deceased wife (again, condolences) and you jointly bought this condominium under the 49/ 51% Thai ownership rule.

I presume there are no liens against the condominium. 

In effect, transfer might be possible and would fall under the rules of the Condominium Act. https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/condo-inheritance.html

Bit of a quagmire to wade through.

 

[baansgr]

With the documents the lawyer has requested you could do the transfer  yourself to your son at the land office, bypassing him and his extonaiate fee. If you have a Thai speaking friend, or even someone in the juristic office that would help for a small fee. Bear in mind, how sully it sounds, your son will need to obtain a Foreign Exchange, Transaction form, meaning he needs to show an amount equal to the value of the condo coming into Thailand...Burea De Change normally can help with this.

[ThomasThBKK]

I think you can only give it to your son if he has FET bank form about 3 mio THB money moved into thailand. 

[Langsuan Man]

Sorry but it is still not clear if this is a farang owned condo via a company or a farang condo owned under the 49% foreign quota exception

 

And the OP doesn't make it clear since it has to be one or the other.  Once he has his facts straight he might be able to get a straight answer. 

 

[sanuk711]

13 hours ago, Syke1911 said:

There are no Thais involved. 

 

I'm a Farang with a deceased Farang wife. 

 

The condo complex we own is majority Thai ownership. We own one unit in the complex. 

If all condos are taken and the quota (49%-Farang--51%Thai) has been reached & yours is in the Thai quota. Then (from my limited understanding) you can not get it in your name or transfer it to your son, unless you stick with the Thai company approach.

[ThomasThBKK]

2 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

If all condos are taken and the quota (49%-Farang--51%Thai) has been reached & yours is in the Thai quota. Then (from my limited understanding) you can not get it in your name or transfer it to your son, unless you stick with the Thai company approach.

They jointly own a condo in the foreign 49% of the building, he's just writing it in a convuluted way. 

 

They are both registered at owners on the chanote, but it's in the foreign quota.

[sanuk711]

2 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

They are both registered at owners on the chanote, but it's in the foreign quota.

OK thanks for the clarity ThomasTHBKK----but he talks about buying as a company.

What would the need be for that.

[ThomasThBKK]

9 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

OK thanks for the clarity ThomasTHBKK----but he talks about buying as a company.

What would the need be for that.

 

I don't think he does, PeterW was talking about company stuff as he thought the condo is owned by a company. That's not the case here, they are joint owners as private citizens on the  chanote. 

 

Now he has to get sole ownership first and then he can transfer it, but i think to transfer it to his son he will need a FET form even in this case of the condo already owned by family.

[sanuk711]

8 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

PeterW was talking about company stuff as he thought the condo is owned by a company.

I'm real glad we have you to interpret ThamasThBKK................Thanks

............

[inThailand]

Depending on what your son plans to do with your condo will dictate the best solution.

 

He plans to Sell the condo.

 

Your Thai Will leaving him the condo.

Land Dept Power of Attorney from you for him to sell the condo.

Yours and wifes death certificate. 

 

With these documents you can avoid steep attorney fees and land transfer fee, stamp duty and tax by not transferring to him now. When he has a buyer he just incurs transfer fees. because you get an inheritance stamp duty and tax break.

 

He plans to Keep the condo.

 

Then I would do the transfer now. It will cost about 4% of Land Office assessed value while your alive, but will make life easier for him. Because your deceased wife is on the title, an attorney will be needed. 

 

I assume 150K quoted is just the attorney's fees?

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by inThailand

[Langsuan Man]

52 minutes ago, inThailand said:

I assume 150K quoted is just the attorney's fees?

Those kind of fees indicate to me that it is a company owned condo and the reason that the OP is uninformed is probably because the builder did all the "company" paperwork for him and others to circumvent the 49 % rule

 

If this is not correct then OP is urged to obtain another lawyer since this one is gouging him

 

I just closed down a company that owned my 7 million baht house and land and did not pay any where near that amount for the lawyer.  His fee was 25,000 THB, Office of Business Development 18,000 THB,  the rest was land transfer tax and "profit"  tax

 

[crazykopite]

Condolences to you and your children you do not mention the age of your son who you wish to transfer the property to .i am presuming he is 18 years of age or over I would of thought that all your late wife’s possessions would automatically be passed over to you as her spouse but I could be wrong under Thai law . I would of thought as both you and your late wife had a 49% share holding that this would now be in your sole ownership I hope that you can get your problem resolved without having to pay up unrealistic fees   
it would be helpful if you could let us know what the final outcome of your situation was as I think it would be helpful for those who have a similar ownership.

[justin case]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

I just closed down a company that owned my 7 million baht house and land and did not pay any where near that amount for the lawyer.  His fee was 25,000 THB, Office of Business Development 18,000 THB,  the rest was land transfer tax and "profit"  tax

name of lawyer please

 

when I get quotes, it ranges from 150.000 to 500.000 baht RETAINER for any of those wolves before they move a pinkie