Brexit trade deal clash: UK and EU spar over rules

[jesimps]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Both want to secure a trade agreement, but Britain has set a deadline of the end of the year and the EU has warned that if Prime Minister Boris Johnson wants a no-tariff, no-quota deal, he will have to sign up to its rules to ensure fair competition.

 

Johnson said he would not do that, in a speech that harked back to Britain's past trading successes, promising that his government would again be a champion of free trade and jealously guard his country's new-found "sovereignty".

 

Of course Johnson won't agree to that, it'd be the same as not leaving. Cheeze, what was the point of the last three and a half years? This is the problem with the Mainland Europeans, they are impossible to deal with on a level playing field, which is why we should never have joined in the first place.

[tomacht8]

32 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Yes. I mean that one. You honestly believe that since "our entire business both in the U.K. and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs" they will simply pack up and go home if WTO happens? I doubt they will just shrug and surrender 2 entire markets because of politics.  Any comments made by anyone at this point are made with an agenda.

 

What do you think they will do in the event of WTO? That is the question. There may not be public contingency plans yet, but they are being considered. Count on it.

 

 

 

They will, because Japan have a Trade deal with the EU. In the trade agreement, tariffs on automobiles are set to zero. It pays off more for Japanese and European car manufacturers to produce large quantities at one location and to accept the higher transport costs. if small plants in continental europe are closed, it is not caused by Brexit. The plants in the UK are no longer profitable either, especially with additional tariff barriers. The UK market is simply too small to maintain a wide range of models and complementary services.

 

[jesimps]

8 hours ago, smedly said:

Lets not forget who is pulling barniers puppet strings - Verhofstat

....and he's a swivel-eyed lunatic.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, talahtnut said:

You chose Harlow! jeeze man, its an overspill town of London, which is Baghdad Central.

This is the unfortunate effect of uncontrolled immigration, a result of obeying EU edict.

We are leaving the EU, not the Europeans we love, especially your Citroen and Benz, my daily drives in the UK.

The EU has only to propose but nothing to say, only the EU council, existing of the heads of governments of the EU member states, so inclusive the PM of the U.K.

When the eastern European countries joined the EU, ONLY the UK opened immediately their borders.

For people from outside the EU there is not even one agreement about migrants, so all the British to blame for themselves ( with many thanks to the people in their "colonies" to fight and die for the British rulers ) .

 

Again, again, and again the British do not know their own history

 

The huge political cost of Blair's decision to allow Eastern ...

 

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16 nov. 2016 - In 2004 the Labour government allowed citizens of the 10 new EU states labour market access. ... and Ireland, to open its labour market to these new EU citizens immediately. ... Central and Eastern European immigration into the UK ... Europe lent the impression that Labour could not control the borders.

 

www.politics.co.uk › ... › Comment

 

Free movement: How open borders helped the British ...

 

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18 sep. 2017 - By Jack Graham. On May 1st 2004, migrants from the 'Accession 8' countries of eastern Europe won the right to work in Britain. Denied access ...

www.telegraph.co.uk › uknews › immigration › T...

 

Tony Blair: I don't regret opening UK borders to European ...

 

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24 jun. 2012 - Tony Blair does not regret the decision to lift border controls for Eastern European immigrants, he said yesterday after Ed Miliband expressed ...

fullfact.org › immigration › eu-migration-and-uk

 

EU immigration to the UK - Full Fact

 

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18 mrt. 2019 - How many EU immigrants come to the UK, how many leave, and what ... the UK was one of three countries which opened its borders straight … 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom

Muslim mass immigration to Britain began after World War II, as a result of the destruction and labour shortages caused by the war.^[37][38] Muslim migrants from former British colonies, predominantly India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh,^[37] were recruited in large numbers by government and businesses to rebuild the country.^[39] Large numbers of doctors recruited from India and Pakistan, encouraged by health minister Enoch Powell in the early 1960s, also played a key role in the establishment of the NHS health service.^[40]

[tomacht8]

19 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Christ    hardly worth an answer

  UK second biggest contributor to EU 

93 billion deficit  

 38 billion membership

   All gone,finished,even the bog trotters will be up in arms   but   no fishing  now that is good news  put millions out of work in EU     really good   all gone  bye bye

Exaggeration. In the EU, a maximum of 200,000 people (excluding the UK) are engaged in fishing. if you pull off inland fishing, offshore fishing, crustacean farming and aquaculture, there are less than 100,000 on the high seas.

Why did you not study first the numbers before you post C,rap numbers.

[evadgib]

Meanwhile they're still getting on with it:

 

UK statement on the Joint Initiative on Services Domestic Regulation

[puipuitom]

3 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Exaggeration. In the EU, a maximum of 200,000 people (excluding the UK) are engaged in fishing. if you pull off inland fishing, offshore fishing, crustacean farming and aquaculture, there are less than 100,000 on the high seas.

Why did you not study first the numbers before you post C,rap numbers.

Ever seen any comment of a Brexiteer based on real figures, or any searching on internet ?

 

 

www.gov.uk › ... › Marine

 

Fishing industry in 2018 statistics published - GOV.UK

 

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26 sep. 2019 - It includes details on the UK fleet, the number of fishermen, the quantity and value of UK landings, international trade, worldwide fishing and the ...

 

ec.europa.eu › statistics-explained › index.php › F...

 

Fishery statistics - Statistics Explained - European Commission

 

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5 dagen geleden - The fisheries industry in the EU employed about 180 000 people in ... fish landings and aquaculture production in the European Union (EU) .

 

ec.europa.eu › fisheries › facts_figures_en

 

Fisheries facts and figures | Fisheries - European Commission

 

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The processing industry counts approximately 3 700 companies. The mainstay of EU production is conserves and ready meals of fish, crustaceans and molluscs ...

edepot.wur.nl › ...

 

Impact of hard Brexit on European fisheries - WUR E-depot

 

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door H Bartelings - ‎Geciteerd door 1 - ‎Verwante artikelen

the EU, particularly in the connecting fish processing industry make UK ... Figure 1 shows, that value added in the fish sector is created by employing a set of ...

www.bbc.com › news › uk-scotland-50837190

 

Reality bites for the fishing industry - BBC News - BBC.com

 

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18 dec. 2019 - There are some difficult issues to be tackled as the fishing industry ... Their tonnage and value far outweighs the more familiar white fish served in ... Although the UK is due to leave the European Union on 31 January, the deal ...

[izod10]

7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Exaggeration. In the EU, a maximum of 200,000 people (excluding the UK) are engaged in fishing. if you pull off inland fishing, offshore fishing, crustacean farming and aquaculture, there are less than 100,000 on the high seas.

Why die not stuff first the numbers before you post C,rap numbers.

on the high seas....   Right  boats  marketing  food supply  anything and everything connected   millions   all down the toilet  All Barnier talks about fishing,     All good stuff for UK to keep

 

  To finish the UK want OUT of the EU   and getting out   no use quoting figures  its over      finished   out 

[Monomial]

8 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

They will, because Japan have a Trade deal with the EU. In the trade agreement, tariffs on automobiles are set to zero. It pays off more for Japanese and European car manufacturers to produce large quantities at one location and to accept the higher transport costs. if small plants in continental europe are closed, it is not caused by Brexit. The plants in the UK are no longer profitable either, especially with additional tariff barriers. The UK market is simply too small to maintain a wide range of models and complementary services.

 

 

I can accept that. So presumably they would also ship to the UK from Japan. These talks have already been happening informally with the Japanse government for a while, and auto tariffs are a big talking point. This seems like a reasonable way to resolve the issue. Either way, that trade between the UK and the EU simply becomes unnecessary.  Either scenario doesn't bode well for the EU making the argument that the UK will wither and die without them.

 

The does prove the point however that large companies will find a way to trade with the UK bypassing the onerous WTO regulations for trade with the EU. The political leverage the EU thinks it has by restricting trade will likely not withstand the adjustments businesses will use to get around them. Either manufacturers will set up shop in the UK if it is profitable to do so, or they will ship from somewhere else that has a trade deal with the UK.

 

The point you did not addess however, is that the smaller absolute market the UK offers can in theory be offset in the immediate term by streamlining the UK economy, removing much of the unnecessary bureaucracy and offering higher margins.  Long term trade will always adjust to find a balance. The belief the EU seems to have going into these trade negotiations that business will politely ignore the UK market and let the country wither strains credibility.

[Mavideol]

8 hours ago, petermik said:

The EU can take a hike...the boot is on the right foot now and we will not be bullied into anything that is not in our best interests....fark them I say

just keep in mind.... two numbers   45%  VS  15%

[izod10]

13 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Exaggeration. In the EU, a maximum of 200,000 people (excluding the UK) are engaged in fishing. if you pull off inland fishing, offshore fishing, crustacean farming and aquaculture, there are less than 100,000 on the high seas.

Why did you not study first the numbers before you post C,rap numbers.

Fishing plays a crucial role for employment and economic activity in several EU regions – in some European coastal communities the fishing sector accounts for as many as half the local jobs.

Employment in the fishing sector tends to be concentrated in a handful of countries. Spain alone accounts for a fourth of total employment, and the four countries with the highest levels of employment – Spain, Greece, Italy and Portugal – make up around 73%.

Aquaculture employs roughly 80 000 people, including part-time and full-time jobs in both marine and freshwater aquaculture.

The processing industry counts approximately 3 700 companies. The mainstay of EU production is conserves and ready meals of fish, crustaceans and mollusc

 

Oh dear!  seems you post c.rap

[talahtnut]

4 hours ago, david555 said:

And the E.U. was not lying all the way , from beginning they made their goalposts ,it was only U.K. so about sel-insured who believed al the nonsense from themselves that E.U. always go flat belly at last instance …… so now you see how flat E.U. go ...

I compliment you on your English, but the word

'bellyflop' is more accurate, and you will soon

observe one when the EU finishes its dive.

 

[puipuitom]

17 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

They will, because Japan have a Trade deal with the EU. In the trade agreement, tariffs on automobiles are set to zero. It pays off more for Japanese and European car manufacturers to produce large quantities at one location and to accept the higher transport costs. if small plants in continental europe are closed, it is not caused by Brexit. The plants in the UK are no longer profitable either, especially with additional tariff barriers. The UK market is simply too small to maintain a wide range of models and complementary services.

 

Teh brexiteers still live in the era before 1950, when a car manufacturer with an output of a 50-100.000 cars/year could prosper.  Now it is over a million cars. And transport costs, by these very big ships… not so much...) 

Nissan nearly collapsed, but thanks to Ghons and Renault it still exists. Several car factories ( Ford, GM/Opel) in Belgium were closed already, simply because of lack of economies of scale.

 

www.brusselstimes.com › magazine-all-news › wh...

 

When Belgium was the world's greatest car producer

 

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18 apr. 2017 - It was the heyday of Belgian car manufacturing, and the plant turned out ... Ford closed the plant with the loss of 6,000 jobs either at the factory …

 

By some estimates, factories in Western and Eastern Europe are capable of producing seven million or eight million more cars and light trucks than the market can absorb. Many factories are operating at only 60 percent or less. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/business/international/ford-pays-a-high-price-for-plant-closing-in-belgium.html

[Blue Muton]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

Yes and we are not asking the EU to conform to our standards, which in many cases is far superior to the EUs.

 

With over a million jobs at stake over the water with a no deal, the EU needs to get real and stop playing the great I am.

What UK standards are "far superior to the EUs (sic)?

[evadgib]

21 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

What UK standards are "far superior to the EUs (sic)?

Boris listed several excellent examples during his speech at Greenwich yesterday. The speech will presumably be available on YT.

HTH

 

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

Teh brexiteers still live in the era before 1950, when a car manufacturer with an output of a 50-100.000 cars/year could prosper.  Now it is over a million cars. And transport costs, by these very big ships… not so much...) 

Nissan nearly collapsed, but thanks to Ghons and Renault it still exists. Several car factories ( Ford, GM/Opel) in Belgium were closed already, simply because of lack of economies of scale.

 

www.brusselstimes.com › magazine-all-news › wh...

 

When Belgium was the world's greatest car producer

 

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18 apr. 2017 - It was the heyday of Belgian car manufacturing, and the plant turned out ... Ford closed the plant with the loss of 6,000 jobs either at the factory …

 

By some estimates, factories in Western and Eastern Europe are capable of producing seven million or eight million more cars and light trucks than the market can absorb. Many factories are operating at only 60 percent or less. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/business/international/ford-pays-a-high-price-for-plant-closing-in-belgium.html

Wouldn't that be lovely...an era pre 1950...bit befor my time but yes can imagine 50 hour working weeks, no paid sick.leave, still living amongst bomb sites from WW2, rationing, gas lamps, parafin heaters, etc, etc....I think you have the wrong idea about brexiters...

[izod10]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

What UK standards are "far superior to the EUs (sic)?

Getting out of the EU,and getting out as quickly as possible   just end it now    no more talk talk      now  right now   not needed

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Large numbers of doctors recruited from India and Pakistan, encouraged by health minister Enoch Powell in the early 1960s, also played a key role in the establishment of the NHS health service.^[40]

Hard to believe that. Enoch was anti immigration for non white Christians or so I was led to believe.

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Boris listed several excellent examples during his speech at Greenwich yesterday. The speech will presumably be available on YT.

HTH

The Full Speech:

 

[puipuitom]

38 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Hard to believe that. Enoch was anti immigration for non white Christians or so I was led to believe.

I know reading + searching on Internet is extremely difficult for some British, but..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom   just click on the [40]

^ How migrants helped make the NHS Archived 29 May 2014 at the Wayback Machine, The Guardian, 18 June 2008

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell 

During the early 1960s, Powell was asked about the recruitment of immigrant workers for the NHS. He replied by saying "recruitment was in the hands of the hospital authorities, but this was something that happened of its own accord given that there was no bar upon entry and employment in the United Kingdom to those from the West Indies or anywhere else [in the Commonwealth or colonies]."^[32] Powell did welcome immigrant nurses and doctors, under the condition that they were to be temporary workers training in the UK and would then return to their native countries as qualified doctors or nurses.^[32] Shortly after becoming Minister of Health, Powell asked Rab Butler, then Home Secretary, if he could become appointed to the minister committee which checked on immigration and was about to be re-constituted.^[32] Powell was worried about the strain by NHS immigrants and papers show that he wanted a stronger restriction on Commonwealth immigration than what was passed in 1961.^[32]

 

^{Why you British do not know your own recent history ? ?} 

[tomacht8]

2 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

I can accept that. So presumably they would also ship to the UK from Japan. These talks have already been happening informally with the Japanse government for a while, and auto tariffs are a big talking point. This seems like a reasonable way to resolve the issue. Either way, that trade between the UK and the EU simply becomes unnecessary.  Either scenario doesn't bode well for the EU making the argument that the UK will wither and die without them.

 

The does prove the point however that large companies will find a way to trade with the UK bypassing the onerous WTO regulations for trade with the EU. The political leverage the EU thinks it has by restricting trade will likely not withstand the adjustments businesses will use to get around them. Either manufacturers will set up shop in the UK if it is profitable to do so, or they will ship from somewhere else that has a trade deal with the UK.

 

The point you did not addess however, is that the smaller absolute market the UK offers can in theory be offset in the immediate term by streamlining the UK economy, removing much of the unnecessary bureaucracy and offering higher margins.  Long term trade will always adjust to find a balance. The belief the EU seems to have going into these trade negotiations that business will politely ignore the UK market and let the country wither strains credibility.

There are some points imo to consider.

The UK no longer has a trade deal with Japan via EU contracts with a WTO Brexit. The EU and Japan have negotiated for over 8 years.

The question will be, how is the interim period from WTO Brexit to a trade agreement with Japan?

As a rule, large companies make their loss locations obsolete, which means investing no longer. Part of the workforce is retiring, part-time, severance payments, redundancies, plant closures. 

It is unlikely that Japan will artificially keep a loss-making location alive.

 

Without investments in new production technologies and new models, a location is also unattractive. In addition, the free accessibility of 450 million  customers breaks away. Certainly not a incentive for new investments.

 

Japanese business people are generally very sensitive when there are disruptions in the business environment that they cannot control.

 

I think the Japanese have long since planned and adopted their withdrawal as producers from unprofitable locations in the UK and also in the EU. Japan would frankly never say that. It would be stupid to challenge a strike and unrest in the factories among the workforce.

 

 

....immediate term by streamlining the UK economy, removing much of the unnecessary bureaucracy and offering higher margins. ....

 

The UK could have done that earlier, but competition is tough in the automotive business. I think there will be no more sunshine in the long term.

 

[SheungWan]

11 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

There are some points imo to consider.

The UK no longer has a trade deal with Japan via EU contracts with a WTO Brexit. The EU and Japan have negotiated for over 8 years.

The question will be, how is the interim period from WTO Brexit to a trade agreement with Japan?

As a rule, large companies make their loss locations obsolete, which means investing no longer. Part of the workforce is retiring, part-time, severance payments, redundancies, plant closures. 

It is unlikely that Japan will artificially keep a loss-making location alive.

 

Without investments in new production technologies and new models, a location is also unattractive. In addition, the free accessibility of 450 million  customers breaks away. Certainly not a incentive for new investments.

 

Japanese business people are generally very sensitive when there are disruptions in the business environment that they cannot control.

 

I think the Japanese have long since planned and adopted their withdrawal as producers from unprofitable locations in the UK and also in the EU. Japan would frankly never say that. It would be stupid to challenge a strike and unrest in the factories among the workforce.

 

 

....immediate term by streamlining the UK economy, removing much of the unnecessary bureaucracy and offering higher margins. ....

 

The UK could have done that earlier, but competition is tough in the automotive business. I think there will be no more sunshine in the long term.

 

What do you make of the FT story Feb 3 (currently denied by Nissan), that in the event of tariffs, Nissan will close the Barcelona and French manufacture facility and concentrate on the UK?

[tomacht8]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

What do you make of the FT story Feb 3 (currently denied by Nissan), that in the event of tariffs, Nissan will close the Barcelona and French manufacture facility and concentrate on the UK?

As an outsider i do not know the detailed production structures and revenue / cost structures in the individual Nissan plants. What and how market shares in the Renault-Nissan Daimler-Mitsubishi alliance to be distributed behind closed doors I can not say. At most, there were guesses.

But in general i can say that all unprofitable plants are always put to the test bench. 

[Monomial]

45 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

There are some points imo to consider.

The UK no longer has a trade deal with Japan via EU contracts with a WTO Brexit. The EU and Japan have negotiated for over 8 years.

The question will be, how is the interim period from WTO Brexit to a trade agreement with Japan?

As a rule, large companies make their loss locations obsolete, which means investing no longer. Part of the workforce is retiring, part-time, severance payments, redundancies, plant closures. 

It is unlikely that Japan will artificially keep a loss-making location alive.

 

Without investments in new production technologies and new models, a location is also unattractive. In addition, the free accessibility of 450 million  customers breaks away. Certainly not a incentive for new investments.

 

Japanese business people are generally very sensitive when there are disruptions in the business environment that they cannot control.

 

I think the Japanese have long since planned and adopted their withdrawal as producers from unprofitable locations in the UK and also in the EU. Japan would frankly never say that. It would be stupid to challenge a strike and unrest in the factories among the workforce.

 

 

....immediate term by streamlining the UK economy, removing much of the unnecessary bureaucracy and offering higher margins. ....

 

The UK could have done that earlier, but competition is tough in the automotive business. I think there will be no more sunshine in the long term.

 

 

I am suggesting that some of the "unnecessary bureaucracy" is a result of overhead caused by membership in the common market, and therefore could not be removed while remaining a member of the EU. With these restrictions lifted, the UK has much more freedom to set policies that are friendlier than those implemented by the EU.

 

Also, the UK has been negotiating with Japan informally for months, and Japanese businesses are already pushing the government to strike a deal quickly with the UK to replace the Japan-EU trade pact now that the break is effective. There is political will on both sides to complete this before the end of 2020, as most of the standards and reporting requirements can simply be copied from the existing agreements with the EU.

 

It will not take the UK anywhere close to 8 years to negotiate an agreement. That is one advantage of being a small, nimble, single country, vs. a massive, complex trading block like the EU. Don't dismiss out of hand how much the removal of complexity is going to advantage the UK vs. the EU in many areas. The question is simply how much that increased efficiency can act to entice others and compensate for a smaller overall market.

 

 

[katana]

 

9 hours ago, samran said:

The Rule Britannia brigade love a good slogan. The less words the better. Based on fact? That’s beside the point...
 

’Australian style trade deal’ sounds impressive enough to them - despite the fact no such thing exists! 

The 'deal' they have is essentially under WTO rules.

Former Australian prime minister Tony Abbott talking (03/02/20) about current Eu-AU trade relations:
“...It's a good relationship. We (AU) do about $100 billion dollars of worth of trade with the EU and we do it without any deals without any special agreements. We essentially do it on the basis of the WTO rules, so this idea your trade will evaporate unless you have a deal is nonsense. If worse comes to worst and the EU are determined to punish the UK by saying no deal or no satisfactory deal, Britain can just keep trading with the EU but on the WTO basis and as I say, AU has been doing it for decades and decades and it hasn't done us or the EU any harm. But it would be better obviously to have something as close as the current situation where there is free movement of goods without tariffs and quotas, there is full mutual recognition of standards and credentials and there is free-ish movement of people for well paid work and not welfare. That's the sort of thing I think Britain should aspire to have with the EU. That's certainly what I think the EU should aspire to have with Britain. But my fear is that in the end the EU bureaucracy won't be able to help themselves, they will want to try and punish Britain. But as I said in the piece for the Sunday Telegraph the other day, as the world's 5th largest economy, as the most dynamic economy in Europe, although no longer in the EU, Britain will have no lack of trade suitors because why wouldn't you want to have the best possible economic relationship with such a country?…”
https://youtu.be/W93PNnEdK-8?t=2205

[tomacht8]

7 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

I am suggesting that some of the "unnecessary bureaucracy" is a result of overhead caused by membership in the common market, and therefore could not be removed while remaining a member of the EU. With these restrictions lifted, the UK has much more freedom to set policies that are friendlier than those implemented by the EU.

 

Also, the UK has been negotiating with Japan informally for months, and Japanese businesses are already pushing the government to strike a deal quickly with the UK to replace the Japan-EU trade pact now that the break is effective. There is political will on both sides to complete this before the end of 2020, as most of the standards and reporting requirements can simply be copied from the existing agreements with the EU.

 

It will not take the UK anywhere close to 8 years to negotiate an agreement. That is one advantage of being a small, nimble, single country, vs. a massive, complex trading block like the EU. Don't dismiss out of hand how much the removal of complexity is going to advantage the UK vs. the EU in many areas. The question is simply how much that increased efficiency can act to entice others and compensate for a smaller overall market.

 

 

Between EU and Japan it was 8 years.

Between UK and Japan it will be more faster, but definitely not ratified end of late 2020. Maybe 2023, 2024 if fast.

Unfortunately, copy and paste does not work with individual trade contracts.

All goods, product groups and services, as well as quotas must be precisely defined and calculated. The scope for action policy is also restricted by existing contracts with third countries Japan have.

 

In the case of the UK Nissan plant, there is no time pressure for Japan to conclude a trade contract. The car factory is already there and the old models can be sold free of tarif in the UK. And the Japanese are definitely not going to import massiv Nissan cars made in UK. 

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

Boris listed several excellent examples during his speech at Greenwich yesterday. The speech will presumably be available on YT.

HTH

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-in-greenwich-3-february-2020

[tebee]

14 hours ago, izod10 said:

UK has the power to destroy the EU,from within.   Block fishing ,rioting will occur in western EU countries property damage,loss of life too no doubt.  Millions are invested in EU fisheries ,all about to go to rot, the EU are over a barrel  and they know it.  Pity about GBP  with Boris talking tough,    but good thing short term

Of course, this worked so well in the Cod wars, were we brought mighty Iceland to it knees  and they surrendered and gave us everything we desired.....

[Opl]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-in-greenwich-3-february-2020

or … "The Aisle of Plenty"

[Opl]

6 hours ago, evadgib said:

Boris listed several excellent examples during his speech at Greenwich yesterday. The speech will presumably be available on YT.

HTH

 

all Boris's good examples also prove that the EU has absolutely not prevented the UK from defining its own standard of living ... The so-called "chains of Europe" are therefore not that heavy to bear.