Alternatives to fixed security bars

[recom273]

We currently live in rented accommodation but we are currently playing with ideas for our self build house.

 

Rather than have fixed security bars on the outside or inside, does anyone have any thrifty solutions that can be incorporated at design stage rather than an after thought.
 

I wish them to be automated in home assistant via some ESP8266 relay, that’s not really a concern, and will be fitted to 3 sliding patio doors.

 

I have two ideas, either roller shutters, but I think the motors used are bulky, expensive and difficult to hide.

 

He second, Some kind of “pocket door” system either side of the window, where the Thai made bars retract back into, probably split into two panels. Maybe the first section would be automated leaving the second section.

 

Does anyone else have any ideas to share?

Edited February 6, 2020 by recom273

[Matzzon]

Bullet proof glas and first class security locks.

[recom273]

6 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Bullet proof glas and first class security locks.

Yes, indeed, but I just feel that wouldn’t convince the Thai psyche, the wife wants security bars, because everyone has security bars.

 

I was thinking about just building an underground bunker with no windows.

[Matzzon]

4 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Yes, indeed, but I just feel that wouldn’t convince the Thai psyche, the wife wants security bars, because everyone has security bars.

 

I was thinking about just building an underground bunker with no windows.

No working! Your wife will still need a rack of steel bars over the hatch. ????

[CharlieH]

Homepro have collapesable consatina type guards, that fold slmost flat against the wall. Then you can draw them closed, like the old elevator door design.

They could be housed in a slim pillar /box design either side of the opening.

Full height or 1m width across the centre.

 

[worgeordie]

Security bars might keep burglars out ,for a while,but if they really

want to get in your house they will,now if there's a fire in your house,

you would want to get out ! and quickly,so what is more important to you,your

possessions ,(which can be replaced) or the lives of you and your family ?

that's the reason i don't have bars on the windows,there are other security

measures you can take.

regards worgeordie

 

[recom273]

22 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Security bars might keep burglars out ,for a while,but if they really

want to get in your house they will,now if there's a fire in your house,

you would want to get out ! and quickly,so what is more important to you,your

possessions ,(which can be replaced) or the lives of you and your family ?

that's the reason i don't have bars on the windows,there are other security

measures you can take.

regards worgeordie

 

Yes, I know - I have fully supported you over this argument in the past, too many people die unnecessarily in this country when they are trapped in a fire. 
 

As I say I would rather not use them, but the wife would rather we did, sometimes it’s better to pick your battles, right?

I would rather I didn’t see them, which is why we are taking steps now at the design stage.

 

The bars will be mostly used when we are not in the country as a deterrent.

[recom273]

53 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Homepro have collapesable consatina type guards, that fold slmost flat against the wall. Then you can draw them closed, like the old elevator door design.

They could be housed in a slim pillar /box design either side of the opening.

Full height or 1m width across the centre.

 

Thanks, will check it 

 

Sometimes I get lost in my home automation that I forget simple solutions.

[DannyCarlton]

Buy one of these.

 

                                                     

[JimShortz]

I've opted for a high fence and gate, exterior LED lights that are on dusk to dawn automatically, 3 dogs (including an Alpha male), and 6 IP security cameras mounted high, clearly visible and monitoring the perimiter (show red lights at night).

These combined measures don't make my house burglar proof, but it isn't that attractive an option either...  I absolutely refuse to live behind bars - I have done nothing wrong!  I would prefer the occasional burglary if that is the alternative; although all good so far!

The cameras (VSTARCAM C18S 1080P) cost only B1300 each and I can monitor from phone or PC. They also record based on motion (my choice) to micro SD cards within the cameras.

[Tropicalevo]

40 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Buy one of these.

 

                                                     

That would be my recommendation as well.

My next door neighbour has four adopted street dogs that visit my house daily for a takeaway or a snack.

I have come away for a three day break and my house is not even locked up.

Any dogs barking constantly at night and my neighbours and security guard come to investigate.

I also have cctv cameras as the beer fridge is on the pool deck and I can see who comes round to use the pool and grab a beer! ????

[phetphet]

In France I have seen a lot of buildings, especially apartments, seem to have aluminium or maybe even some kind of plastic roller shutters on the windows. They are electrically operated.

If you are building from scratch, maybe these sort of rollers could be incorporated so they are not visually intrusive.

 

The picture below is similar, and from a Chinese manufacturer. So looks like you might be able to order from Alibaba.

Edited February 6, 2020 by phetphet

[Metropolitian]

I removed the bars when moving in this house. At the second floor the view is now open.

Don't like the obstruction and want have another way out of the house in case of emergency and the door is blocked.

 

I left the bar/grids at the front windows and front door as that also has the anti-mosquito frames in it.

 

Four dogs presents, burglars would need to think twice before entering.

 

[Gweiloman]

12 hours ago, JimShortz said:

I've opted for a high fence and gate, exterior LED lights that are on dusk to dawn automatically, 3 dogs (including an Alpha male), and 6 IP security cameras mounted high, clearly visible and monitoring the perimiter (show red lights at night).

These combined measures don't make my house burglar proof, but it isn't that attractive an option either...  I absolutely refuse to live behind bars - I have done nothing wrong!  I would prefer the occasional burglary if that is the alternative; although all good so far!

The cameras (VSTARCAM C18S 1080P) cost only B1300 each and I can monitor from phone or PC. They also record based on motion (my choice) to micro SD cards within the cameras.

 

24 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

I removed the bars when moving in this house. At the second floor the view is now open.

Don't like the obstruction and want have another way out of the house in case of emergency and the door is blocked.

 

I left the bar/grids at the front windows and front door as that also has the anti-mosquito frames in it.

 

Four dogs presents, burglars would need to think twice before entering.

 

Who looks after the dogs when you are away? Do you put them in kennels? Genuine question. 

[JimShortz]

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Who looks after the dogs when you are away? Do you put them in kennels? Genuine question. 

When we are away for more than a night we have a family member or two (wife's relatives all live locally) move in - provide food and drink and the house sitting is free!  Actually, I think they just like our huge TV   ????

[AussieBob18]

I recommend you look at window bars that open up so you/others can get out if there is a fire - which you then padlock from the inside when you are going to be away.  Plus install movement generated lights all around the house. Plus an alarm system that activates when they are inside.  And become good friends with your neighbours.  And dont park the merc in the driveway when away.  And never let anyone know you have valuable property in the house (if you do).  You cant stop a professional - but you can make them think if it is really worth it - and it will deter the amatuer/druggie looking for quick cash (they are the vast majority of house breakers).  Plus - live in a gated community with security guards 24/7.  

 

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

I recommend you look at window bars that open up so you/others can get out if there is a fire - which you then padlock from the inside when you are going to be away.  Plus install movement generated lights all around the house. Plus an alarm system that activates when they are inside.  And become good friends with your neighbours.  And dont park the merc in the driveway when away.  And never let anyone know you have valuable property in the house (if you do).  You cant stop a professional - but you can make them think if it is really worth it - and it will deter the amatuer/druggie looking for quick cash (they are the vast majority of house breakers).  Plus - live in a gated community with security guards 24/7.  

 

 

Alcatraz fits the bill......

[eyecatcher]

Where do you guys live?

I was only remarking yesterday that I have never locked any of the doors at ours for 5 yrs even the car.

I have not even heard of anyone that was ever broken into and had things stolen

Personally I think shutters and high security make it obvious that no one is at home so they can take their time.

Also remember most people dont interfere if someone is around their neighbours, so making itlook like someone is at home maybe better.

Timed lighting,garden sprinkler, music, pir floodlights etc

[KC 71]

8 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

Where do you guys live?

I was only remarking yesterday that I have never locked any of the doors at ours for 5 yrs even the car.

I have not even heard of anyone that was ever broken into and had things stolen

Personally I think shutters and high security make it obvious that no one is at home so they can take their time.

Also remember most people dont interfere if someone is around their neighbours, so making itlook like someone is at home maybe better.

Timed lighting,garden sprinkler, music, pir floodlights etc

Sometimes if you go O.T.T. With cameras/security etc it can give the impression there are lots of valuables inside.

[recom273]

31 minutes ago, eyecatcher said:

Where do you guys live?

I was only remarking yesterday that I have never locked any of the doors at ours for 5 yrs even the car.

I have not even heard of anyone that was ever broken into and had things stolen

Personally I think shutters and high security make it obvious that no one is at home so they can take their time.

Also remember most people dont interfere if someone is around their neighbours, so making itlook like someone is at home maybe better.

Timed lighting,garden sprinkler, music, pir floodlights etc

Hat Yai, Songkhla.

 

I don't know if its any worse or better than any other area, we live in a new build mid-terrace in the middle of the country, just a single row of 6 house. All houses have the same Thai made burglar bars that could easily be prized apart with a long handle. 

 

We have been burgled once over the years. The thief entered when I walked upstairs without locking the gate.

 

Not far from our place is row of 4 bed detached houses, that has been turned over multiple times, so much so, the owners moved out and have been unable to sell the property. I think its an issue of living on the outskirts of a big city, which appears to be a magnet for lowlife from all over the south - theres nowhere else to go, only Malaysia.

 

I'm looking to build further out in a more rural location, I'm not a lover of bars or dogs, but i'm a fan of home automation and security, I can easily set up sprinkler, lights and appliance automation - but the wife sees window bars as essential in this part of the world, despite the times where I have demonstrated the science of leverage to pop the welds. 

 

I think as my parents get older we will spend extended time in the UK, so want to be able to close up the property, knowing that we can return to find the TV still on the wall. The wife has no family here, and we had some bad luck in the past when we let western friends stay in the house and look after the cats.

 

This is why I would want to plan and build in something a little discreet and hidden rather than something permanent.

[Metropolitian]

19 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Who looks after the dogs when you are away? Do you put them in kennels? Genuine question. 

I don't like kennels or the using of cages.

No bars for me and for the dogs.

 

I have Ta and Yaay living with me, in fact two dogs are theirs.

There is always someone at home.

 

Very occasionally we are out all at the same time, a few hours can do. The dogs have each other.

If it got too long, the contents of one or two pots won't survive and they are blacker then a mole.

 

[Morakot]

Burglar proof mesh might be a good alternative if there is a real risk of people gaining entry through windows. This stainless steel material also  doubles an insect screen.

 

Not particularly cheap though.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Morakot

[MikeN]

Have you looked at the Majestic products ? http://majestec.co.th/en/ Not cheap but good quality.

Also, I did see some roller shutters advertised on a sponsored facebook ad, good looking, slimline and flush fitting with no motor visible, so they are available in Thailand ....but I did n't save any contact info ????

 

[Metropolitian]

46 minutes ago, Morakot said:

This stainless steel material also  doubles an insect screen.

 

 

And spiderman, at that height no risk taken.

 

[Metropolitian]

Just now, Metropolitian said:

48 minutes ago, Morakot said:

This stainless steel material also  doubles an insect screen.

 

 

And spiderman, at that height no risk taken.

 

I have seen those mesh sheets at an expo. And had the ability to try to pierce it with a knife or hammer.

Indeed a strong mesh. Stronger than the frame and the few point's it was screwed on the frame.

[tjo o tjim]

Roller shutters with limited perforations are the most effective solution; you can use tubular motors which just live in the spool mechanism.  

 

The second best solution is the roller bars.  

 

After that, it really comes down to what you are trying to achieve and how large the opening is.  If you want something that you can close at night to feel secure, they should be on the inside, ideally with a panic release from the inside.  I have seen through-bolted exterior bars, hinged on one side, with an easy-open mechanism on the interior that was fire marshal approved in the US.  The fire department could open it pretty easily from the exterior, and people inside just had to push a bar on the inside to release.

[canopy]

 

This is the security screen option mentioned and is sold by majestec and winmaster.  They are tough enough to keep the wanna be thief drunks or crazies out and it would take considerable noise to defeat them. A big problem with normal security bars in Thailand is they are often easy to pry off from the outside using just a garden tool handle laying around and people know this. Security screen frames are designed to prevent being pried off. The nice thing about these is they double as extremely durable mosquito screens, unlike rollers it's not obvious if you are home or away, and they are effortless (no need to lower or raise anything). Cost is prohibitive but worth mentioning for completeness.

 

[phetphet]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:11 PM, Metropolitian said:

 

I have seen those mesh sheets at an expo. And had the ability to try to pierce it with a knife or hammer.

Indeed a strong mesh. Stronger than the frame and the few point's it was screwed on the frame.

I too have seen that mesh, fitted behind large sliding doors and windows. Acts as a security barrier and anti mosquito mesh. Was told it had the ability to withstand a chainsaw. But the weakness would seem to be the frames that it is fitted in. Very expensive too I would imagine.

[GarryP]

On 2/12/2020 at 8:17 AM, phetphet said:

I too have seen that mesh, fitted behind large sliding doors and windows. Acts as a security barrier and anti mosquito mesh. Was told it had the ability to withstand a chainsaw. But the weakness would seem to be the frames that it is fitted in. Very expensive too I would imagine.

Looking into it now. And from what I have seen it is very expensive.