Foreign (U.S.) marriage - marriage extension

[unheard]

Goal: to enter Thailand on non-Imm category O family visa then convert it into a marriage based extension while in Thailand.

Question: ways of legalizing the foreign marriage prior to entering Thailand to minimize legal headaches when inside Thailand and following steps to satisfy the extension requirements.

 

I'm pretty clear on what needs to be done to authenticate a U.S. marriage certificate at the Thai consulate in LA.

1. Marriage certificate must be certified by Secretary of State.

then

2. Marriage certificate must be certified by Department of State to satisfy the so-called two step process.

then

3. Marriage certificate must be translated into Thai (no mention of the translator credential requirements)

Upon completion of all the above the Thai consulate will stamp the translated marriage certificate with an official seal making it acceptable for Thai government agencies.

 

I'd like to receive some guidance on the follow-up process when in Thailand.

What needs to be done to make the above-mentioned marriage certificate to satisfy the marriage extension requirements.

Thank you.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by unheard

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, unheard said:

I'd like to receive some guidance on the follow-up process when in Thailand.

What needs to be done to make the above-mentioned marriage certificate to satisfy the marriage extension requirements.

You take the legalised Marriage certificate and translation to your local Amphur who will register the foreign marriage. For subsequent extensions based on marriage, your Immigration office will probably want a copy of your marriage certificate and an updated Kor Ror 22 from the Amphur.

 

What is a Kor Ror 22?

It's a certificate of marriage registration and only issued if there is no record of divorce since the marriage was registered. In other words your still legally married.

A Kor Ror 22 is issued for foreign registered marriages, a Kor Ror 2 for marriages in Thailand.

[unheard]

3 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

You take the legalised Marriage certificate and translation to your local Amphur who will register the foreign marriage. For subsequent extensions based on marriage, your Immigration office will probably want a copy of your marriage certificate and an updated Kor Ror 22 from the Amphur.

Are the legalized Marriage certificate and its stamped by the consulate translation only documents required to register a foreign marriage at the local Amphur?

Edited February 14, 2020 by unheard

[Gumballl]

40 minutes ago, unheard said:

Are the legalized Marriage certificate and its stamped by the consulate translation only documents required to register a foreign marriage at the local Amphur?

Not that I have ever done what you are doing, but I would suspect that once you have your US-based marriage certificate translated to Thai, that you would need to have it legalized/certified at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) on Chaengwattana Road, Bangkok... before going to the Amphur. A trip to the US Consulate may also be required prior to the visit to the MoFA.

[unheard]

58 minutes ago, Gumballl said:

Not that I have ever done what you are doing, but I would suspect that once you have your US-based marriage certificate translated to Thai, that you would need to have it legalized/certified at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) on Chaengwattana Road, Bangkok... before going to the Amphur. A trip to the US Consulate may also be required prior to the visit to the MoFA.

Well, that's pretty much the dilemma I'm having at the moment and the reason for seeking out a concrete info on the process.

I'm gonna be spending lots of time and effort dealing with the certification process via the American agencies in order to bring the American Marriage Certificate up to the Thai's LA consulate acceptance standards just to get it stamped with the official Thai seal making it a legal document in Thailand.

My understanding is that by doing all this I should be able to bypass a trip to the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the trip to the US Consulate while in Thailand.

If it's not the case then what's the purpose of the Thai Consulates' official seal?

Doesn't it make the document officially acceptable in Thailand and ready for registration at the local Amphur?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

If it's not the case then what's the purpose of the Thai Consulates' official seal?

I checked the embassy's and consulate's websites and see no mention of a translation being required to get the documents authenticated by them.

See: https://thaiconsulatela.org/home_th/services-for-thais_th/legalization_th/authentication-of-us-documents_th/

You will need to have the translations done here and then have them certified by the Department of Consular Affairs Department of the MFA in Bangkok.

 

[unheard]

How about this link?

https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/services-for-thais/legalization/certified-translations/

I don't see anything preventing me (after passing through two stages of authentication as required by them) from submitting the marriage certificate for translation and then authentication?

Unless I'm missing something ...

Will try to email the consulate.

[ubonjoe]

On that page it states this.

"The document must be submitted in full. Summaries or brief excerpts will not be accepted. The translator will certify official translations with a signature."

 

That will not be enough to satisfy a Amphoe. They will require it to be certified by the Consular Affairs Department.

[unheard]

ubonjoe,

 

hmm... Now it made me thinking If I should proceed with a marriage based extension.

May I ask if you could list documents required for the extension of stay based on being the parent of a Thai?

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

hmm... Now it made me thinking If I should proceed with a marriage based extension.

May I ask if you could list documents required for the extension of stay based on being the parent of a Thai?

There is a easier way to get your US marriage certificate verified that will be accepted by an Amphoe. You can do a self certification if it by doing a affidavit at the US embassy stating it is a true, correct and valid document. Then having your marriage certificate and the affidavit translated to Thai and then have the translation certified by the Consular Affairs Department. A translation service can do both the translation and then have it certified at the Consular Affairs Department.

Where was you child born at? If the US have you you registered their birth at the embassy or the consulate to get a Thai birth certificate? 

You may find it is equal to or more complicated to apply for an extension based upon being the parent of a Thai as marriage.

Edited February 15, 2020 by ubonjoe

[unheard]

Regarding the child.

She was born in the U.S.,

got the Thai passport already but we've haven't specifically registered the birth at the consulate.

 

Regarding the U.S. marriage certificate acceptance by an Amphoe.

By the consular Affairs Department, do you mean the Consulate in Los Angeles?

If the self certification process could be done at the Consulate and then accepted by an Amphoe along with the translated marriage certificate then that's exactly the result that I've hoped to achieve.

My goal is to get done as much as possible here in the U.S., so preferably I won't have a need to travel to Bangkok after the arrival.

I'll be close enough to Chiang Mai though so as not to be a huge problem.

Wanna avoid traveling in Thailand unless absolutely necessary.

Edited February 15, 2020 by unheard

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, unheard said:

got the Thai passport already but we've haven't specifically registered the birth at the consulate.

They would not of gotten the Thai passport without a Thai birth certificate issued by the consulate in LA that is part of the birth registration.

What needs to be done now here is for you child to be registered in a house book to get a Thai ID number at an Amphoe. The house book registry would be required by immigration.

 

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

Regarding the U.S. marriage certificate acceptance by an Amphoe.

By the consular Affairs Department, do you mean the Consulate in Los Angeles?

If the self certification process could be done at the Consulate and then accepted by an Amphoe along with the translated marriage certificate then that's exactly the result that I've hoped to achieve.

I have edited my post to add that that the affidavit is done at the US embassy in Bangkok or the consulate in Chiang Mai.

The Consular Affairs Department in Bangkok is the only place that a translation can be certified.

 

13 minutes ago, unheard said:

I'll be close enough to Chiang Mai though so as not to be a huge problem.

Wanna avoid traveling in Thailand unless absolutely necessary.

You can do the self certification affidavit at the US consulate in Chiang Mai.

I am sure you can find a translation service in Chiang Mai that can do the translations and then the arrange certification of them by the Department  of Consular Affairs.

The certifications can also be done by mail. 

 

[unheard]

Double post

Edited February 15, 2020 by unheard

[unheard]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They would not of gotten the Thai passport without a Thai birth certificate issued by the consulate in LA that is part of the birth registration.

What needs to be done now here is for you child to be registered in a house book to get a Thai ID number at an Amphoe. The house book registry would be required by immigration.

that would be no problem.

How about other qualifications?

I think I've read some place that I'd need to have a work permit and work in Thailand in order to support my child? I don't think if that is correct though..

 

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, unheard said:

Would the Chiang Mai U.S. consulate work for that purpose?

And if there's no way to avoid traveling to Bangkok.....

Read my last post.

No problem to do it at the consulate in Chiang Mai.

Also no need to go to Bangkok for the translation certifications.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, unheard said:

think I've read some place that I'd need to have a work permit and work in Thailand in order to support my child? I don't think if that is correct though..

An extension based upon marriage and for being the parent of a Thai have the same financial requirements. That is 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only or proof of 40k baht income.

You might even have to get your marriage certificate certified to apply for the extension based upon being the parent of a Thai to prove you are their legal father by way of marriage.

[unheard]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

An extension based upon marriage and for being the parent of a Thai have the same financial requirements. That is 400k baht in a Thai bank in your name only or proof of 40k baht income.

You might even have to get your marriage certificate certified to apply for the extension based upon being the parent of a Thai to prove you are their legal father by way of marriage.

I'm assuming the immigration office will be required to send the documents to the central office when applying for an extension based upon being the parent, as is the case with extensions based on marriage....

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, unheard said:

I'm assuming the immigration office will be required to send the documents to the central office when applying for an extension based upon being the parent, as is the case with extensions based on marriage....

The same for both of them. The applications for either one would be sent to immigration division 5 in Chiang Mai for approval.

[Tanoshi]

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That will not be enough to satisfy a Amphoe. They will require it to be certified by the Consular Affairs Department.

If it's been legalised by the Thai Embassy in your home Country it will have the same vignette attached and becomes a legally acceptable document by any Thai government office.

It's your State department or Embassy that certify the document. The MFA or a Thai overseas Embassy legalise the document.

 

@unheard

There are two ways to get your marriage certificate certified, then legalised to be accepted as a genuine legally binding document in Thailand.

The first method is as you've already described and completed in your home Country.

Marriage certificate certified by your State department, translated then both legalised by a Thai Embassy/Consulate in the USA.

 

The second method and probably the easiest, is as explained by Ubonjoe in post 10.

US citizens can fortunately swear an affidavit at the US Embassy in Bangkok as to the validity of your marriage certificate. These are then translated to Thai before being legalised by the Consular section of Thailand's Ministry of Foreign affairs, also in Bangkok.

You can make a morning appointment at the US Embassy to swear your affidavit.

On the 2nd floor of the Consular section of the MFA their is a translation service. You can your documents translated and submit them downstairs in the same day.

The MFA will return your legalised documents by EMS (100 baht) to your registered Thai address.

The process can be completed within a day and at far lesser cost than I daresay you'd pay in the US.

 

Not all Embassies offer a service to swear affidavits, which is why your fortunate.

Had I married by wife in the UK, then the only option would be to have our marriage certificate certified by the Home Office (equivalent of your State dept), translated to Thai, then submitted for legalisation at the Thai Embassy in London.

 

I take it when your arrive you'll be landing in Bangkok?

 

Regarding your child, again Ubonjoe is correct. If she has a Thai passport then she must have claimed and been registered as a Thai citizenship (duel nationality).

Edited February 15, 2020 by Tanoshi

[unheard]

7 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

I take it when your arrive you'll be landing in Bangkok?

 

Regarding your child, again Ubonjoe is correct. If she has a Thai passport then she must have claimed and been registered as a Thai citizenship (duel nationality).

We'll be landing in Chiang Mai and stay in the North.

That's the reason why I don't wanna travel to Bangkok.

It seems the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles legalization option (if works as expected) would be the easiest choice for me to take.

Edited February 15, 2020 by unheard

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, unheard said:

We'll be landing in Chiang Mai and stay in the North.

That's the reason why I don't wanna travel to Bangkok.

When he wrote his post he seemed to of missed the fact that you can do the affidavit at the consulate in Chiang Mai.

And then arrange for the translations to be done in Chiang Mai and then have them handle the certification in Bangkok. Or mail in the documents to have the certification done at the Consular Affairs Department.

[Curt1591]

Quote

1. Marriage certificate must be certified by Secretary of State.

then

2. Marriage certificate must be certified by Department of State to satisfy the so-called two step process.

then

3. Marriage certificate must be translated into Thai (no mention of the translator credential requirements)

Upon completion of all the above the Thai consulate will stamp the translated marriage certificate with an official seal making it acceptable for Thai government agencies.

In our case, about 15 years ago, no certification, and no translation, was needed. Our marriage certificate must have looked official enough.

[JimGant]

Ubonjoe, could you give your take on Lopburi's feeling that the Dept of State must get involved with US marriage licenses? See post 12 in this thread:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/975674-registering-us-marriage-in-thailand/

For the OP:

Assuming no State Dept requirement, I'm in the same boat as you and plan to get my Kor Ror 22 in Chiang Mai. I'll get a self-written affidavit notarized at the US Consulate in CM (including my marriage certificate number on that affidavit, per the thread above). An agency called Star Visa, which is a block away from the US Consulate, will translate your affidavit and marriage certificate, then forward to MFA for certification. Then, hopefully, the subsequent product will be acceptable to the Amphur.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Ubonjoe, could you give your take on Lopburi's feeling that the Dept of State must get involved with US marriage licenses? See post 12 in this thread:

It can still be done by doing an affidavit. I can recall posts of people doing it within past year or less.

The affidavit has to be translated and certified by the consular affairs department along with the marriage certificate.

The embassy has this on the notaries page.  

"Affidavits
Oftentimes the Thai government requests the U.S. Embassy or Consulate General Chiang Mai “certify” documents listed under “services we cannot provide.” Please note the Embassy and Consulate CAN notarize an affidavit which may or may not satisfy the Thai requirement for “certification.”"

Source: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

At one time the embassy and consulate had a fill in the blanks affidavit form for doing it. All of those went away at about the same time they stopped doing income affidavits for some reason. Now you have to use a blank affidavit to do the self certification.

See: https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/affidavit/

FYI: Many people use the self certification of marriage, birth and other documents for use at immigration when applying for extensions for family members. Same for diplomas and etc.

[JohnFlory]

I did the process (registering the maariage) in Thailand a year and a half ago. My Thai wife and I were married 17 years ago in the US. I am writing strictly from memory so I hope I get it all right,

 

I understand you are not in Thailand so things may be a little different. I went to the US Embassy in Bangkok and got an affidavit stating that we were married in the US. I showed them our marraige license with the appostile (sp?). I also, and I don't know why, had to have my US passport "certified" at the US Embassy (I think for the amphur. I had been told to do this). I then went to a company in Thailand that translated my documents and sent them to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Got everything back in less than a week. My wife and I then went to the amphur and had of US marraige registered in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

38 minutes ago, JohnFlory said:

I also, and I don't know why, had to have my US passport "certified" at the US Embassy (I think for the amphur. I had been told to do this).

Some amphoes will want a copy of your passport certified and then translated to Thai.

 

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Some amphoes will want a copy of your passport certified and then translated to Thai.

Anybody reading this have experience with the Doi Saket amphur re passport certification and translation?

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Anybody reading this have experience with the Doi Saket amphur re passport certification and translation?

I suggest checking with the amphoe to confirm what their current requirements are.

[unheard]

13 hours ago, JohnFlory said:

I understand you are not in Thailand so things may be a little different. I went to the US Embassy in Bangkok and got an affidavit stating that we were married in the US. I showed them our marraige license with the appostile (sp?).

I'm in the U.S. at the moment.

Thailand is not a signatory of the Apostille Convention, therefore the American documents must be certified twice:

Documents issued by government agencies of the United States must pass this two step process (through the Secretary of State of the issuing state and the Department of State) in order to prove to government agencies in Thailand that the issued documents are indeed official.

https://thaiconsulatela.org/en/services-for-thais/legalization/certified-translations/

[Tanoshi]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

When he wrote his post he seemed to of missed the fact that you can do the affidavit at the consulate in Chiang Mai.

And then arrange for the translations to be done in Chiang Mai and then have them handle the certification in Bangkok. Or mail in the documents to have the certification done at the Consular Affairs Department.

I didn't miss it, I chose not to mention using an agent to complete the process.

Apart from the fact they charge ridiculous fees, they ask you to sign a form in Thai.

The form is a POA and not specific to just getting your documents legalised at the MFA.

It's like signing a blank cheque.