Trump accuses Schiff of leaking intelligence about Russia to hurt Sanders

[WalkingOrders]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

 

Wow! And I do mean Wow!

 

Maybe I'm from a similar background as you.  I have proper redneck cred.  I'm the descendant of a crippled Civil War vet who fled South Carolina because people wanted to kill him (different stories about why).  I have family stories of gamblers and moonshiners and smugglers...and these were the respectable stories.  I remember my grandmother, as fine a person as anyone could claim to be related to, quietly  whispering to me that she was part Irish.  In her time that was a shameful thing.

 

I have also met the Billy Carter definition of being a redneck (look it up).

 

I've also cropped the sandluggers in a tobacco field (not sure if the internet will help you with that one), wrestled large appliances onto trucks in the seventies with the help of a Castro refugee, and done really dirty jobs in a pulp wood mill (ever pushed a shovel in a lime kiln while the dust ate wholes in your skin?) with a mixed race, mostly black, work crew.

 

I judge people as individuals, not by skin colors and by place of origin. There is nothing ethnic about the American dream.

 

BTW; I respect those people who ignore borders in order to do hard stoop field labor under a hot sun in order to earn honest money.  I'd rather go back to the lime kiln than the tobacco fields.

 

 

 

 

 

My how virtuous you are.

 

Now let's cut through the BS shall we. 

 

I am not racist in any shape or form. Drop the accusation!

 

Immigrants and Illegal Immigrants, see a difference? No? Try again.

 

It is illegal to enter the United States without an invitation?

 

If you want to dissolve the US Border, a defining feature of the modern Nation state, and one required to be a Nation State, then you are my enemy plain and simple. I don't care if you if you shoot hogs in Alabama.

 

If you can't tell the difference between citizens, and non citizens, you have lost your way.

 

If a political party has come to believe that importing an illegal population for voting purpose is a good thing, they are lost to me.

 

One more time, in one generation you are turning red states blue.

 

The numbers are what they are, so relax country redneck boy, you are supporting turning the USA into a socialist dystopia. The numbers do not lie.

 

I have lived North South, East, West, and central in the USA, grew up in Los Angeles, speak Spanish, and have hopes that hispanics will turn to the Right, but with liberals controlling the media, our education system, and our bureaucracy, it will be difficult.

 

If it does not happen a move right, then in less then 15-20 years the permanent statistically undefeatable leftist regime comes to power led by some younger Bernie Sanders. Think PRI from Mexico, or Chavistas. Undefeatable by numbers.

If that happens all hell will break lose. Literally! Totalitarianism, will be rejected!

Edited February 26, 2020 by WalkingOrders
Sp

[stevenl]

10 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

 

My how virtuous you are.

 

Now let's cut through the BS shall we. 

 

I am not racist in any shape or form. Drop the accusation!

 

Immigrants and Illegal Immigrants, see a difference? No? Try again.

 

It is illegal to enter the United States without an invitation?

 

If you want to dissolve the US Border, a defining feature of the modern Nation state, and one required to be a Nation State, then you are my enemy plain and simple. I don't care if you if you shoot hogs in Alabama.

 

If you can't tell the difference between citizens, and non citizens, you have lost your way.

 

If a political party has come to believe that importing an illegal population for voting purpose is a good thing, they are lost to me.

 

One more time, in one generation you are turning red states blue.

 

The numbers are what they are, so relax country redneck boy, you are supporting turning the USA into a socialist dystopia. The numbers do not lie.

 

I have lived North South, East, West, and central in the USA, grew up in Los Angeles, speak Spanish, and have hopes that hispanics will turn to the Right, but with liberals controlling the media, our education system, and our bureaucracy, it will be difficult.

 

If it does not happen a move right, then in less then 15-20 years the permanent statistically undefeatable leftist regime comes to power led by some younger Bernie Sanders. Think PRI from Mexico, or Chavistas. Undefeatable by numbers.

If that happens all hell will break lose. Literally! Totalitarianism, will be rejected!

"you are supporting turning the USA into a socialist dystopia."

LOL, better make that communist dystopia for even more dramatic effect.

[WalkingOrders]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"you are supporting turning the USA into a socialist dystopia."

LOL, better make that communist dystopia for even more dramatic effect.

Exactly, I stand corrected. Thankyou.

 

I wish Comrade Bernie luck getting through the primaries, and facing Donald Trump on the debate stage, and general election. Adelante camarada!

[WalkingOrders]

24 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"you are supporting turning the USA into a socialist dystopia."

LOL, better make that communist dystopia for even more dramatic effect.

And a more comprhensive statement of my view of US immigration can be found here:

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by WalkingOrders
Clarity

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Yes, Bernie has many admirable powers.  Speaking truth to power is one of them.  Actually getting things done is not.

 

Florida is a delicately balanced swing that.  It is the third most populous state in the US. 

 

I am fifth generation Floridan.  Long ago I worked with a refugee of Castro's Cuba.  His hatred of Castro and what he and his family lost can not be described.  The children and grandchildren of him and those like him are now voting.  Do you think the stories of their grandparents are not a factor?  Hint:  I know the stories of my great-great-grandfather who fled the law and brought my family to Florida.

 

6% of the most critical swing state in the US is HUGE!

I rather lose with a honest man than live with a crook.

  We have seen what defencive politics have brought us over the years. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 

I am done with defencive politics, Done with voting for the lesser evil, and then being surprised that I got evil. Are you? 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by sirineou

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ok, you overlooked the point of my post.

 

The most obvious explanation of the timing of the release of the information that Russia is promoting the candidacy of Bernie Sanders is that someone, for reasons now unknown, chose to release the information.  The reasons for the release, and timing of the release, are unknown at this time.  However I think it unlikely that it is part or a high level DNC plot against Bernie Sanders.

 

If you have evidence that my assumption is wrong, please provide it.  If you are speculating, please say so.

 

 

You either think it was a coincidence, or you think there was a reason.

If you don't think it was a coincidence, what would you venture to guess was the reason of releasing potentially damaging information right before the Nevada primary and in view of his performance on previous primaries. 

 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

You either think it was a coincidence, or you think there was a reason.

If you don't think it was a coincidence, what would you venture to guess was the reason of releasing potentially damaging information right before the Nevada primary and in view of his performance on previous primaries. 

 

The information could have been released by someone who wanted to damage Sanders.  Or it could have been released by someone trying to show that the reports that Russia was trying to help Trump were wrong.  However it was definitely initially released by someone in government.  However it is unlikely the information was released by someone in the DNC.  Starting a conspiracy theory to that effect lowers you to the level of Trump.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, sirineou said:

I rather lose with a honest man than live with a crook.

  We have seen what defencive politics have brought us over the years. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 

I am done with defencive politics, Done with voting for the lesser evil, and then being surprised that I got evil. Are you?

Simpletons claim everyone is either left or right, intelligent people know better.  What you call defensive politics is what others call appealing to the center, which is where most of the voters are. 

 

Are you saying that if you can't get Bernie you will sit out the election and let Trump be re-elected?  Just like Bernie supporters helped him get elected in 2016?

 

I'm quite accustomed to choosing the lesser of two evils.  It's how life works for grownups. 

[heybruce]

14 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

 

My how virtuous you are.

 

Now let's cut through the BS shall we. 

 

I am not racist in any shape or form. Drop the accusation!

 

Immigrants and Illegal Immigrants, see a difference? No? Try again.

 

It is illegal to enter the United States without an invitation?

 

If you want to dissolve the US Border, a defining feature of the modern Nation state, and one required to be a Nation State, then you are my enemy plain and simple. I don't care if you if you shoot hogs in Alabama.

 

If you can't tell the difference between citizens, and non citizens, you have lost your way.

 

If a political party has come to believe that importing an illegal population for voting purpose is a good thing, they are lost to me.

 

One more time, in one generation you are turning red states blue.

 

The numbers are what they are, so relax country redneck boy, you are supporting turning the USA into a socialist dystopia. The numbers do not lie.

 

I have lived North South, East, West, and central in the USA, grew up in Los Angeles, speak Spanish, and have hopes that hispanics will turn to the Right, but with liberals controlling the media, our education system, and our bureaucracy, it will be difficult.

 

If it does not happen a move right, then in less then 15-20 years the permanent statistically undefeatable leftist regime comes to power led by some younger Bernie Sanders. Think PRI from Mexico, or Chavistas. Undefeatable by numbers.

If that happens all hell will break lose. Literally! Totalitarianism, will be rejected!

You make one heck of a leap going from my respect for those who come to this country to work and "If a political party has come to believe that importing an illegal population for voting purpose is a good thing, they are lost to me."  No political party is doing that.

 

If you lived in California you must know that it was the Republican backed Proposition 187 that turned legal Hispanic voters decisively against the Republican party in 1994.  The Democrats didn't turn your state blue, the Republicans did.

 

I am opposing totalitarianism.  I'm opposing Trump and his war on constitutional checks and balances and established norms of transparency and decency.

[WalkingOrders]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

You make one heck of a leap going from my respect for those who come to this country to work and "If a political party has come to believe that importing an illegal population for voting purpose is a good thing, they are lost to me."  No political party is doing that.

 

If you lived in California you must know that it was the Republican backed Proposition 187 that turned legal Hispanic voters decisively against the Republican party in 1994.  The Democrats didn't turn your state blue, the Republicans did.

 

I am opposing totalitarianism.  I'm opposing Trump and his war on constitutional checks and balances and established norms of transparency and decency.

I think it more likely that an untapped base of apathetic Hispanic, nonregistered persons, were registered to vote, by an energized Democrat Latino base, rather then by a shift of  registered Latinos from Republican to democrat. This puts a different twist on your point. I only read the abstract, but it would make sense. In most elections it seems to hinge on turnout Rather then jumping party, which most people do not do. See abstract here:

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11109-017-9400-1

 

As for your other point. Trump is engaged in no war, and if you look at policy he is behaving as a paleoconservative nationalist leaning traditional non neoconservative President. Not in any way a threat to our Republic. The supermajority I mentioned earlier is what exists in California today.

 

As I earlier said, only a dramatic realignment right of Hispanic voters can stop such a future super majority taking place on the National level. Sadly, dramatic shifts of voters, party to party, abruptly, typically do not happen. That is if the basic point given in the abstract is believed. I don't feel like paying for entire article, but on its face seems sensical.

 

On the other hand Turning point USA is claiming they show 22% blacks will vote Republican in 2020. Again, a question comes up is this party jumping, or registration of the nonregistered voter? Or just bs? Time will tell.

 

I tend to believe that people disaffected with their own party, tend to stay home Rather then switch party. It happens, but turning out the vote seems to be what wins elections.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

I think it more likely that an untapped base of apathetic Hispanic, nonregistered persons, were registered to vote, by an energized Democrat Latino base, rather then by a shift of  registered Latinos from Republican to democrat. This puts a different twist on your point. I only read the abstract, but it would make sense. In most elections it seems to hinge on turnout Rather then jumping party, which most people do not do. See abstract here:

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11109-017-9400-1

 

As for your other point. Trump is engaged in no war, and if you look at policy he is behaving as a paleoconservative nationalist leaning traditional non neoconservative President. Not in any way a threat to our Republic. The supermajority I mentioned earlier is what exists in California today.

 

As I earlier said, only a dramatic realignment right of Hispanic voters can stop such a future super majority taking place on the National level. Sadly, dramatic shifts of voters, party to party, abruptly, typically do not happen. That is if the basic point given in the abstract is believed. I don't feel like paying for entire article, but on its face seems sensical.

 

On the other hand Turning point USA is claiming they show 22% blacks will vote Republican in 2020. Again, a question comes up is this party jumping, or registration of the nonregistered voter? Or just bs? Time will tell.

 

I tend to believe that people disaffected with their own party, tend to stay home Rather then switch party. It happens, but turning out the vote seems to be what wins elections.

Every party tries to get people registered and voting.  That is not a bad thing.

 

Trump is politicizing the DoJ, defying standards of transparency, getting a compliant Senate to ignore its oversight responsibilities, and attacking the free press.  Calling the press "the enemy of the people" is definitely the action of a would-be tyrant.  Democracy can not survive without a free press.

[sirineou]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Simpletons claim everyone is either left or right, intelligent people know better.  What you call defensive politics is what others call appealing to the center, which is where most of the voters are. 

 

Are you saying that if you can't get Bernie you will sit out the election and let Trump be re-elected?  Just like Bernie supporters helped him get elected in 2016?

 

I'm quite accustomed to choosing the lesser of two evils.  It's how life works for grownups. 

 

Simpletons are the ones who let the establishment tell them what is good for them  and get what is pushed down their throats. Perhaps some day they will realise that the establishment only supports what is good for the establishment not them.

  Bernie supporters did not help elect  trump, Hillary and her  supporters did. Now they want to give as another Hillary in the form of Biden or Bloomberg, another "safe " candidate. 

 

[sirineou]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

The information could have been released by someone who wanted to damage Sanders.  Or it could have been released by someone trying to show that the reports that Russia was trying to help Trump were wrong.  However it was definitely initially released by someone in government.  However it is unlikely the information was released by someone in the DNC.  Starting a conspiracy theory to that effect lowers you to the level of Trump.

If you believe the above I have a bridge to sell you.

You don't think some most of the Democrats in congress work in concert with the DNC? or do you think trump and the republicans released the info? 

The DNC worked against Sanders in 2016 and is doing the same now. 

Did you watch the last democratic debate? I did.

"Democratic debate: CBS, Bloomberg draw jeers for ad buy, ‘stacked’ audience "

https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/democratic-debate-cbs-bloomberg-draw-jeers-for-ad-buy-stacked-audience/

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

 

Simpletons are the ones who let the establishment tell them what is good for them  and get what is pushed down their throats. Perhaps some day they will realise that the establishment only supports what is good for the establishment not them.

  Bernie supporters did not help elect  trump, Hillary and her  supporters did. Now they want to give as another Hillary in the form of Biden or Bloomberg, another "safe " candidate. 

 

I can't think of anything "the establishment" has pushed down my throat.  What has been pushed down your throat?

 

It is naive to think voting for a career politician with a long record of achieving little will somehow bring about significant change.

 

Trump was elected by those who voted for him, aided by those who did not vote for the only alternative that had a chance of beating him.  If Bernie supporters sit out the next election unless they get Bernie, they will help Trump get re-elected.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

If you believe the above I have a bridge to sell you.

You don't think some most of the Democrats in congress work in concert with the DNC? or do you think trump and the republicans released the info? 

The DNC worked against Sanders in 2016 and is doing the same now. 

Did you watch the last democratic debate? I did.

"Democratic debate: CBS, Bloomberg draw jeers for ad buy, ‘stacked’ audience "

https://nypost.com/2020/02/25/democratic-debate-cbs-bloomberg-draw-jeers-for-ad-buy-stacked-audience/

I don't know who released the information or why.  Neither do you.  It is premature to go full-blown tin-foil hat conspiracy theory on the subject.

 

The DNC works to elect reliable Democrats, and Sanders doesn't qualify.  The DNC works hardest for those Democrats who help other Democrats get elected.  Sanders doesn't qualify on that count either.  However that doesn't prove anything about the release of the Russian meddling information.

 

I don't normally read the NY Post, but I took a look.  Bloomberg paid for campaign ads to run during the debate.  So what?

 

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

I don't normally read the NY Post, but I took a look.  Bloomberg paid for campaign ads to run during the debate.  So what?

If you don't understand why  it is wrong for candidates to run ads promoting themselves during the brakes of a debate or  the DNC who I would assume was in control of the debat to allow it and to allow the audience to boo one particular candidate , I am afraid I can't help you. 

Is the Washington post better for you ?

" Did the Bloomberg campaign stack the debate audience with supporters? Doesn’t appear so."

"As the debate moved forward, people on social media started passing around an article published this month by a local television station, WCSC-TV. According to that article, the Charleston County Democratic Party was guaranteeing tickets to the debate only to debate sponsors — at prices ranging from $1,750 to $3,200.  " 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/25/did-bloomberg-campaign-stack-debate-audience-with-supporters/

   Bud glad to see that it backfired on them

"CBS/YouGov Poll: Debate watchers believe Bernie Sanders made the best case for defeating Trump "

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/02/26/post-debate-poll-sanders

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

If you don't understand why  it is wrong for candidates to run ads promoting themselves during the brakes of a debate or  the DNC who I would assume was in control of the debat to allow it and to allow the audience to boo one particular candidate , I am afraid I can't help you. 

Is the Washington post better for you ?

" Did the Bloomberg campaign stack the debate audience with supporters? Doesn’t appear so."

"As the debate moved forward, people on social media started passing around an article published this month by a local television station, WCSC-TV. According to that article, the Charleston County Democratic Party was guaranteeing tickets to the debate only to debate sponsors — at prices ranging from $1,750 to $3,200.  " 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/25/did-bloomberg-campaign-stack-debate-audience-with-supporters/

   Bud glad to see that it backfired on them

"CBS/YouGov Poll: Debate watchers believe Bernie Sanders made the best case for defeating Trump "

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/02/26/post-debate-poll-sanders

 

 

Does the DNC have any say in what commercials networks can show during debates?  Does it have a policy opposing campaign ads during debates?  If not, then Bloomberg found a good time to show ads that reached an audience interested in the election.

 

Your link discredits the argument that the debate audience was stacked.

 

Are you really a Trump supporter?  You have the fondness for conspiracy theories, questionable sources and out of context information as Trump supporters.  You also seem as keen to have Bernie be the DNC candidate as the Russians, and as keen on discouraging voting for any other DNC candidate as the Republicans. 

 

In short, you seem keen to get Trump re-elected.