Has Thailand had enough of Western tourists and their ‘entitlement’?

[saakura]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The government might like Chinese and Indian tourists. Thai people at the street level like Westerners, they detest Indians and Chinese. Kiniow.

Especially the gogo and bar owners, prostitutes, barboys and ladyboys too. Because the Chinese and Indians do not spend money on them and the elites seem to accept this.

[saakura]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Due to the Western media still referring to Thailand as the highest risk area outside China, Western tourists are staying away too. Had a mate come over yesterday, I suggested that we have a side trip to Hua Hin, his immediate response was, "No way, isn't that where they had corona virus?".

 

Thailand is getting a very bad press in the West.

Did he come from Italy? USA? France? where there are no coronavirus cases?

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, saakura said:

Did he come from Italy? USA? France? where there are no coronavirus cases?

UK.

[saakura]

3 hours ago, shy coconut said:

Not sure why you say you can't do the backpacking thing anymore. My daughter 

was doing something similar last year. She wasin Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma

And Thailand. She was in and out of Thailand 3 times in 6 months, 1st time flying in

to start her trip and 2 land crossings. Not a single problem with immigration, no demands

for proof of  money or anything like that.

 

It did cost her a bit extra for the airticket as she had 2 singles to and from the UK

but she is pretty savvy and dug around on the internet for deals including multiple

lay offs. She bought a cheap onward ticket to HCM which she used after her initial

30 days were up.

 

She is far from the business traveller in appearance, waist long dreadlocks and 

comfortable clown pants are her choice. Like you she didn't spend much, but to

say it isn't possible due to the junta, or anti falang sentiment etc, is incorrect.

I think that genuine tourists are always welcome, whether they are Westerners or Chinese or Arabs. What they seem to deeply dislike in the last several years are the cheap sexpats, older frugal western retirees living in villages, english teachers whose sole qualification is being a white skinned caucasian with dodgy credentials, digital nomads ekeing out a living etc

[saakura]

11 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

UK.

He was a tourist as you say, and flew down all the way from UK even though he had a real fear of getting coronavirus in Thailand? 

[DannyCarlton]

7 minutes ago, saakura said:

He was a tourist as you say, and flew down all the way from UK even though he had a real fear of getting coronavirus in Thailand? 

Yes.

[Scott Tracy]

How are we measuring value here? Amount of money spent per person per day? I suppose it's as good a way of measuring as any.

Just like Thailand's road death rates putting it at number 2 in the world, if measured as number of people killed at the scene of an accident  for every 100,000 people in the country. But well behind India in the actual number killed in road traffic accidents.

 

[Brigand]

3 hours ago, shy coconut said:

Are you saying that it's easier for a Chinese citizen to stay in Thailand long term than

it is for a westerner? I understand that the Chinese now can get a VOA but that is only

valid for a short period, certainly not longer than the western visa exempt period.

 

The rules for long stay expats are certainly being more strictly enforced now, and a lot

of loopholes are being acted on, and you can't go to the USA or UK embassy now and 

ask for an official letter stating that you have a sufficient income to satisfy the requirements.

Whether that is true or not.

 

I suppose the fact that the baht is so strong is seen as an anti falang thing 

as well,  for those who see negativity everywhere they look.

Not to be disrespectful but there wasn't any point you quoting my earlier post as you addressed absolutely nothing that I said ...just assumed that I was saying something then went off on a wild tangent about F all to do with what I said. Haha.

[geriatrickid]

It is important to understand the motives behind articles of this kind. The author has her own  agenda, and it becomes obvious once one  has a close look at her background. Information is presented as factual, and yet there are no  actual citations. This certainly is not an academic article as the author  does not have the background or the standing.  Mercedes Hutton is a former English teacher as a  second language who writes travel articles for the regional media outlets. She is not a tourism expert, nor does she have  specific knowledge of the economic and financial characteristics of the topic. 

Although she describes herself as a journalist, her CV indicates that she has no formal training as one.  

 

I admit to personal bias, as  having had a look at her, I believe I can understand her political views and prejudice against "European" men.

 

St. Giles College Brighton - Diploma in Teaching English as a Foreign Language CELTA

University of Sussex BA HONS 2:1 English and Film Studies  2004 – 2007

She joined the Post in 2018, where she covers travel and tourism in Asia in her weekly column, Destinations Known

 

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

How are we measuring value here? Amount of money spent per person per day? I suppose it's as good a way of measuring as any.

Just like Thailand's road death rates putting it at number 2 in the world, if measured as number of people killed at the scene of an accident  for every 100,000 people in the country. But well behind India in the actual number killed in road traffic accidents.

 

Nope not a good measure, should be total amount spent per tourist per visit.

[DaveE13]

4 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

It is important to understand the motives behind articles of this kind. The author has her own  agenda, and it becomes obvious once one  has a close look at her background. Information is presented as factual, and yet there are no  actual citations. This certainly is not an academic article as the author  does not have the background or the standing.  Mercedes Hutton is a former English teacher as a  second language who writes travel articles for the regional media outlets. She is not a tourism expert, nor does she have  specific knowledge of the economic and financial characteristics of the topic. 

Although she describes herself as a journalist, her CV indicates that she has no formal training as one.  

 

I admit to personal bias, as  having had a look at her, I believe I can understand her political views and prejudice against "European" men.

 

St. Giles College Brighton - Diploma in Teaching English as a Foreign Language CELTA

University of Sussex BA HONS 2:1 English and Film Studies  2004 – 2007

She joined the Post in 2018, where she covers travel and tourism in Asia in her weekly column, Destinations Known

 

Bet she frequented bars in certain areas of Brighton 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, DaveE13 said:

Bet she frequented bars in certain areas of Brighton 

Yep a regular in the Mucky Duck.

[JustAnotherHun]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Nope not a good measure, should be total amount spent per tourist per visit.

I don't agree. That would say a tourist wjo is here for 2 months spending 1000 Euro had more value for the country than one who stays a week and spends 500.

Spendings per head and day will paint a better picture

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I don't agree. That would say a tourist wjo is here for 2 months spending 1000 Euro had more value for the country than one who stays a week and spends 500.

Spendings per head and day will paint a better picture

TAT count the number of tourists, not how long they stay. Of course a tourist who is here for 2 months and spends 1000 euro has more value to the Thai economy than a tourist staying here for one week and spending 500 euro. Exactly twice the value. Maths 101.

[shy coconut]

3 hours ago, rkidlad said:

I didn't say you couldn't go backpacking anymore. I said had I tried to travel now the way I did back in 2005 - I wouldn't have been able to. Ergo, I would have spent less time and money here. 

She spent as much time here as she wanted, she spent a couple of weeks with me in Ubon,

mooched around the islands a bit, but wanted to see Laos and Cambodia while she was in

this part of the world, if she wanted (unfortunately she can't at the moment) to stay longer

I'm sure she could have, the kids these days are pretty clued up on visa and other issues 

when traveling and see it as part of the experience.

 

Myanmar gave her a few problems but nothing she couldn't deal with, and as I said she had

no problems entering or moving around Thailand.

 

Oh and she went to Koh Tao, alone and survived, but a year previously had hitch hiked

through Turkey, Georgia and the Ukraine and spent 12 weeks in Macedonia and Albania

so maybe she's just resilient!

[shy coconut]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Due to the Western media still referring to Thailand as the highest risk area outside China, Western tourists are staying away too. Had a mate come over yesterday, I suggested that we have a side trip to Hua Hin, his immediate response was, "No way, isn't that where they had corona virus?".

 

Thailand is getting a very bad press in the West.

I thought it was Korea that had the biggest problems, which media outlets are saying

Thailand is the riskiest country outside of China?

 

I checked the foreign office alert regarding Corona and they suggest avoiding certain

parts of China and Italy and taking sensible precautions elsewhere, ie handwashing etc.

[rkidlad]

7 hours ago, shy coconut said:

She spent as much time here as she wanted, she spent a couple of weeks with me in Ubon,

mooched around the islands a bit, but wanted to see Laos and Cambodia while she was in

this part of the world, if she wanted (unfortunately she can't at the moment) to stay longer

I'm sure she could have, the kids these days are pretty clued up on visa and other issues 

when traveling and see it as part of the experience.

 

Myanmar gave her a few problems but nothing she couldn't deal with, and as I said she had

no problems entering or moving around Thailand.

 

Oh and she went to Koh Tao, alone and survived, but a year previously had hitch hiked

through Turkey, Georgia and the Ukraine and spent 12 weeks in Macedonia and Albania

so maybe she's just resilient!

That’s nice, if not completely irrelevant to my point. But again, if I wanted to travel now like I did back in 2005, I couldn’t. You can’t just come and go anymore. 

[JustAnotherHun]

8 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

TAT count the number of tourists, not how long they stay. Of course a tourist who is here for 2 months and spends 1000 euro has more value to the Thai economy than a tourist staying here for one week and spending 500 euro. Exactly twice the value. Maths 101.

Lucky you not being in the tourist business ????

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

TAT count the number of tourists, not how long they stay. Of course a tourist who is here for 2 months and spends 1000 euro has more value to the Thai economy than a tourist staying here for one week and spending 500 euro. Exactly twice the value. Maths 101.

What about the tourists that stay here 2 hours, waiting for their onward flight to Vietnam/Cambodia?

[saengd]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What about the tourists that stay here 2 hours, waiting for their onward flight to Vietnam/Cambodia?

As a percentage of 39 million tourists per year these amount to how many? And how many tourists are going to fly long haul and then spend only 2 hours in Bangkok?

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What about the tourists that stay here 2 hours, waiting for their onward flight to Vietnam/Cambodia?

They don't spend money.

[saengd]

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism-income-Thailand.asp

[saengd]

10 hours ago, Dickincider said:

Well said...

Because they only want tourists with the same or less mental capacity as them. They want people that are accustomed to being easily herded. They are tired of having to deal with tourists with even a moderate level of intelligence and common sense. Common sense is not taught here and is aggressively discouraged. They seem to easily lose face when having a simple conversation so frustration and then anger ensues when dealing with western common sense thinkers. Just an observation over the 10 years I've been here.

 

You don't appear to have learned much in those ten years, either that or you've been interacting with the wrong crowd. Ironic also that you imply Western tourists may have more intelligence and common sense, not everyone would agree with your sweeping generalization!

Edited March 5, 2020 by saengd

[SteveK]

What about the hordes of Lao people who cross the border for a few hours to go to Makro? Or the hordes of Malaysians who cross the border to get drunk and engage with local ladies in Hat Yai then go back the next day? Are these all counted as tourists?

[saengd]

36 minutes ago, SteveK said:

What about the hordes of Lao people who cross the border for a few hours to go to Makro? Or the hordes of Malaysians who cross the border to get drunk and engage with local ladies in Hat Yai then go back the next day? Are these all counted as tourists?

If a person passes through Immigration they are counted, regardless of how long they stay.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

What about the hordes of Lao people who cross the border for a few hours to go to Makro? Or the hordes of Malaysians who cross the border to get drunk and engage with local ladies in Hat Yai then go back the next day? Are these all counted as tourists?

Of course they are considered tourists because they spend money and stay short-term i.e. less than a month.

 

They do not earn money like some illegal online workers who aren't really tourists.

 

If hordes of Americans go to Canada and spend money, wouldn't they be considered tourists as well.

[EricTh]

50 minutes ago, saengd said:

If a person passes through Immigration they are counted, regardless of how long they stay.

The length of time does matter.

 

Tourist are considered to stay for less than 3 months according to Thailand. Another condition is 'no working either locally or remotely is allowed'.

 

If you stay continuously long-term for more than 3 months, you aren't considered a tourist. You would have to get retirement, work permit, marriage, student visa etc for these groups of people.

 

Unfortunately, many people abuse the legal system by being visa/border runners. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by EricTh

[jingjai9]

I think one thing to consider when discussing western tourists in Thailand is that trouble between Thais and western tourists often arises from the westerner's assumptions about customer service. Westerners use their experience with customer service in the west as a yardstick to judge Thai merchants. It is not the same. 

 

I am not at all sure if the customer comes first in Thailand or if the customer is always right. One case in point is that I shop each week at Tesco and my shopping experience is often negative because I cannot navigate the workers re-stocking shelves in the aisles or cleaning up or even two or three gathered in a group talking while customers are forced to detour their carts around them. It seems as though the customer is in the store for the employees benefit rather than the employees being their for the customer. In some smaller shops I get the impression that because one has the money to open a business they are in essence superior to the customer.  Do others have this experience?

[rkidlad]

59 minutes ago, saengd said:

If a person passes through Immigration they are counted, regardless of how long they stay.

So you've just proved other posters' point that the tourist numbers are fudged. 

[Wongkitlo]

11 hours ago, saakura said:

I think that genuine tourists are always welcome, whether they are Westerners or Chinese or Arabs. What they seem to deeply dislike in the last several years are the cheap sexpats, older frugal western retirees living in villages, english teachers whose sole qualification is being a white skinned caucasian with dodgy credentials, digital nomads ekeing out a living etc

Can still only do 2 land border crossings a year. Makes it harder to go back and forth.