Thailand's foreign retirees see their good life slip away

[billd766]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

This American isn't suffering. 

So you are getting a better exchange rate of perhaps 35thb/1usd.

 

Or do you have so much money that it doesn't matter?

 

Many people did their financial planning but over the years banks have been bailed out (2008), currencies have been devalued and revalued over the years that when you make your plans figure that the current value of the currency you use will only be worth perhaps 50% in 10 years time.

 

You could be lucky and only lose 25% in those 10 years.

[Dustdevil]

21 hours ago, zydeco said:

Well, that was a shallow read on the situation. Another article where retired expats = British = Pattaya. Really dislike the fact that I used up my single Nikkei Asian Review free article for the month on this piece of superficial reading.

Yes. And in the States it's common to come across those articles about the best countries to retire in--"researched" with only dimension: cost of living. So Malaysia, for example, is near the top. What a joke. I know Malaysia extremely well. It's a Muslim country with 30-35% minorities, and they're mostly awful people. Much as Thailand has deteriorated, it's leagues above Malaysia.

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, mlmcleod said:

Wealthier retirees?  Anyone that is wealthy can find far better retirement options than Thailand!  The middle class western retirees are taking it on the chin.

Wealthier doesn't necessarily mean "wealthy." Middle class western retirees are known for their poor abilities to budget properly. They can probably learn.

 

1 hour ago, mlmcleod said:

In return, I get constant hassles from immigration.   The changing rules are a constant headache.  Thai immigration will not accept my Social Security documents as proof of income but they do take the word of every African and South American embassy.

Immigration is trivial to deal if you meet all the requirements and do so efficiently. The changing rules aren't a constant headache but matters of adjustments that can be taken in stride. Tax forms and changing tax rules in Western countries are a constant headache however. I wonder how any of our expats were ever able to fill out a tax form?

 

And Thai Immigration would be happy to take the word of your embassy and prefer it, actually. No, they aren't going to translate and verify your Social Security documents for you.

 

[BigStar]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So you are getting a better exchange rate of perhaps 35thb/1usd.

 

Or do you have so much money that it doesn't matter?

 

Many people did their financial planning but over the years banks have been bailed out (2008), currencies have been devalued and revalued over the years that when you make your plans figure that the current value of the currency you use will only be worth perhaps 50% in 10 years time.

 

You could be lucky and only lose 25% in those 10 years.

Or rather than deluding yourself that just having a bank account is financial planning, you could have done actual planning via investments and currency hedges, gaining 200% in those 10 years.

[86Tiger]

4 hours ago, paddypower said:

i don't see how a term deposit in your name can have a co-signatory? I must chek that out.

 

 

My wife is not "co-signatory" on my account, but she does have ATM card.  So any problem she has access to what ever she needs.

 

On occasion we have to seriously discuss what she sees as a problem requiring access to my funds but that is a different topic.......

[spornb]

19 hours ago, Chrysaora said:

Wealthy people rarely discuss their wealth.  

 

Just saying.

Well thats only six families in thailand so for the rest of us thats OK

[wwest5829]

21 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

The good life slipping away lol, it's called being financially unprepared. Anybody who tries to retire in a foreign country on the cheap is a fool..

Hmmm, "on the cheap"? How do you define your constructs? My retirement budget is $2300.00 USD a month (includes $1306.00USD from Social Security). Challenge to deal with the cost of living in USA. Comfortable working middle class retirement here in Thailand (and some other countries). Many more working middle class folks here for financial reasons.

[86Tiger]

1 hour ago, emptypockets said:

What makes you think Australia would want you? You don't fit any criteria that I'm aware of. Simply being a disabled American is not a qualification. It used to be 45 years old was the cut off date for immigrants who did not have an Aussie sponsor.

 

I can attest to being difficult to get in Aus.  

 

I decided to apply for visa back in 2008, the economy was hot then and guys were banking near same as we were in Iraq with no body shooting at you and weekends off.  I got the application submitted about 1 week before my 45th birthday.  It took 3 years 19 days to get the approved visa.  Opportunities shift over 3 years.  I entered Brisbane in July 2011 to activate the visa and left on the next plane 8 hours later.  Never been back.

 

But the requirements were pretty stringent, apply before 45th birthday, have skill set enabling to contribute to economy, etc.  They didn't let just any one in and I am sure it is more difficult now.

 

YMMV

[Swimfan]

3 hours ago, Henryford said:

I thought Australia was the wealthiest nation in the world. Anyone with a house there is a millionaire.

Millionaires with $750k mortgages 

[Tropposurfer]

21 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

The good life slipping away lol, it's called being financially unprepared. Anybody who tries to retire in a foreign country on the cheap is a fool..

or desperate to try to find somewhere where they can afford a roof over their heads and food for their bellies. There seems to be a lot of very quick to judge folks herein (maybe not you?) about others lives and circumstances.

As an Aussie and from (a country of high cost of living) we have millions living on poverty incomes, suffering housing shortages - that which is rentable is at exorbitant prices and swallows up almost the whole of any pension or social security payment a person may be eligible for, a broken collapsing free medical system, food prices ridiculous, job vacancies lessening every quarter (no room for aged workers) etc etc. 

Not everyone has the capacity to have had a moderately to successful at life. Some suffer lifelong disabilities and problems e.g. (chronic mental health issues, addictions, trauma and abuse, multi-generational poverty and social and economic estrangement) that make any security as they struggle through, 'in survival mode'.  What is normal, expected as  a birthright or through application of hard work, 'having a go' as some say to some is normal but to others is an impossible fantasy.  

[Tropposurfer]

21 minutes ago, 86Tiger said:

 

I can attest to being difficult to get in Aus.  

 

I decided to apply for visa back in 2008, the economy was hot then and guys were banking near same as we were in Iraq with no body shooting at you and weekends off.  I got the application submitted about 1 week before my 45th birthday.  It took 3 years 19 days to get the approved visa.  Opportunities shift over 3 years.  I entered Brisbane in July 2011 to activate the visa and left on the next plane 8 hours later.  Never been back.

 

But the requirements were pretty stringent, apply before 45th birthday, have skill set enabling to contribute to economy, etc.  They didn't let just any one in and I am sure it is more difficult now.

 

YMMV

8 hours huh? Man you gave yourself and Australia a good run to see what it was like there ....

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

8 hours huh? Man you gave yourself and Australia a good run to see what it was like there ....

Nice airport..........????

[DaleLemke]

51 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So you are getting a better exchange rate of perhaps 35thb/1usd.

 

Or do you have so much money that it doesn't matter?

 

Many people did their financial planning but over the years banks have been bailed out (2008), currencies have been devalued and revalued over the years that when you make your plans figure that the current value of the currency you use will only be worth perhaps 50% in 10 years time.

 

You could be lucky and only lose 25% in those 10 years.

“So you are getting a better exchange rate of perhaps 35thb/1usd.” It’s headed back up there now the USD is back up to almost 32thb to 1usd again now for the first time since 2017. So things really are looking more promising this year hopefully the virus won’t ruin it. 

[Max69xl]

34 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Hmmm, "on the cheap"? How do you define your constructs? My retirement budget is $2300.00 USD a month (includes $1306.00USD from Social Security). Challenge to deal with the cost of living in USA. Comfortable working middle class retirement here in Thailand (and some other countries). Many more working middle class folks here for financial reasons.

$2300 is about ฿72,000. That's an ok sum unless you're the sole provider of a big Thai family. If someone moved to Thailand from let's say the UK a few years ago they have seen the £ go down. If they had + ฿5,000/month at the time and then suddenly they were below 65k/month,imo that's being unprepared. You need to be able to handle crappy exchange rates over time when moving to another country as a retiree. I know loads of people having no money what so ever in a Thai bank and now their pension is below 65k/month. 

[Burma Bill]

After nearly 20 years in North Thailand, I slipped away to a good life in Cambodia where there are no complicated Immigration and Financial bureaucratic rules, just simplicity!

[from the home of CC]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I'm managing okay, but the value of my currency has halved since I came to live here. If anyone tells me they budgeted and came prepared for that I'll call them a liar.

many have, that's why it's call pre pared

[from the home of CC]

4 hours ago, Headgame said:

A fool, really? 
Financially unprepared is a relative condition.
The vast majority of retirees choose another country to retire because it is less expensive than their home country. Rather than being foolish, it is a very viable option.

 

it's not viable if you don't look ahead, it's called not living in reality..

[from the home of CC]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Hmmm, "on the cheap"? How do you define your constructs? My retirement budget is $2300.00 USD a month (includes $1306.00USD from Social Security). Challenge to deal with the cost of living in USA. Comfortable working middle class retirement here in Thailand (and some other countries). Many more working middle class folks here for financial reasons.

there's folks that 'live' here on a lot less than that, they were the ones screaming about the embassy changes and the new retirement visa financial constraints..

[SometimezaGreatNotion]

"Thailand's foreign retirees see their good life slip away."

 

I retired less than two years ago, and fortunately for me, I haven't yet figured out what the "good life" is for me, so it can't "slip away."

 

So far what may turn out to be the "good life" is

1. Not having to interact with farang, especially farang women. Farang culture is a downer for me because of the baggage of being pretty much a social loser and outcast my whole life in the United States.

 

2. Having a Thai wife who always has a pleasant nature, which greatly helps me on the path to losing my crabby, critical personality. Also her government pension helps when the baht gets strong.

 

3. I thank God regularly for not having to live in warmongering hypocritical U.S. culture.

 

Cheers!

 

 

[from the home of CC]

58 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

or desperate to try to find somewhere where they can afford a roof over their heads and food for their bellies. There seems to be a lot of very quick to judge folks herein (maybe not you?) about others lives and circumstances.

As an Aussie and from (a country of high cost of living) we have millions living on poverty incomes, suffering housing shortages - that which is rentable is at exorbitant prices and swallows up almost the whole of any pension or social security payment a person may be eligible for, a broken collapsing free medical system, food prices ridiculous, job vacancies lessening every quarter (no room for aged workers) etc etc. 

Not everyone has the capacity to have had a moderately to successful at life. Some suffer lifelong disabilities and problems e.g. (chronic mental health issues, addictions, trauma and abuse, multi-generational poverty and social and economic estrangement) that make any security as they struggle through, 'in survival mode'.  What is normal, expected as  a birthright or through application of hard work, 'having a go' as some say to some is normal but to others is an impossible fantasy.  

We have the same in Canada. So if you have issues that preclude you in earning a living (at least enough to satisfy another country's immigration policies) why would you come to a country that doesn't offer a social blanket when your own country does? What if you get sick or drink yourself into dire straits. That's being a super fool.. 

[Dan123]

36 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

After nearly 20 years in North Thailand, I slipped away to a good life in Cambodia where there are no complicated Immigration and Financial bureaucratic rules, just simplicity!

yet your name Is burma bill,  internal revenue will Never find you!

[Destiny1990]

Has anything been done to promote facilitate long term staying here in the recent years? 

Have more new expats/pensioners arrived or have more existing ones left?

Have other countries nearby gained or lost momentum as an alternative for long term staying?

 

[DJ54]

23 hours ago, zydeco said:

I used up my single Nikkei Asian Review free article for the month on this piece of superficial reading.

Same here 1 and done... this is starting to be a frequent occurrence on Yahoo, Aviation news etc...  when that pops up oh well don’t need read it...ughhh annoying 

[Scot123]

And this article and attitude is way so many like myself and family left Thailand. We could afford and met all the requirements with ease however the changing immigration rules were he reason we left. We did not feel safe and secure. People who are rich are not stupid and will have research done before even contemplate retirement in Thailand. Their market always was Joe blogs retiring to Thailand and they have blown it. 

[wasabi]

6 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

I agree it is a poorly written article like most of the Asian Nikkei stuff and it is OK with me that I have no more free reading allowance with them.

 

But one thing of note is the assertion that Thailand is trying to attract a wealthier class of retiree. This is not the case. There is no constructive policy behind this. There are just trying to make it harder for existing retirees, I.e. destroy what they have, rather than upgrade or build something new.

 

If they want to attract wealthier retirees, they need to offer something new and look at their competition. They already tried the elite card Which offers minimal benefits at a high price and which corrupt official just turned into a thieving exercise until it had to bailed out by the government. Something like the Malaysian scheme could work, if they wanted wealthier retirees. Give 10 year renewable visas, the right to buy a house and land up to a certain size in certain zones, the right to import a motor car tax free, the right to bring your own maid with visa etc etc. in Malaysia the investment you have to bring in can be used to buy a house or deposited. Used to be equivalent to about B5 million.

 

There is nothing wrong with attracting wealthier expats in a meaningful way and keeping what they’ve already got. Why not have everything instead of throwing out what you’ve got and replacing it with nothing.

My wife and I just obtained the Thailand Elite visa and are very happy with it. Do I wish there was a cheaper option? Of course. Should Thailand have more options than the Elite or a retirement visa, answer is likely yes... but given we want to stay in Thailand and the available options for us; it was the best choice. I did not originally intend to get anything other than the bare bones visa offering but due to a transfer opportunity we obtained one of the original Special Entry Elite visas and were granted other benefits like visits to Thai spas included in the negotiated transfer price.

 

Visits to spas is something I never did before or considered in the past but now that it's included I am thoroughly enjoying it and will make the most of it. I can honestly say our visas will make us enjoy our stay in Thailand more now that the immigration hassle is gone for 20 years -- and the benefits are features of the visa I will end up using and enjoying.

Edited March 6, 2020 by wasabi

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts, offensive posts and the replies have been removed.

 

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Vigilante]

23 hours ago, aussienam said:

Yes, if there was ever a run on the banks similar to what has occurred in other developing nations and the government blocked withdrawals then we would all be screwed.  And complain you'll be deported LOL.

Also, the govt could ..errr...utilize the 800k to fight the virus.

..but no wolly naa...nek month, your money will be back in!

[rascalman]

That deposit bull **** needs to stop only hurting yourself!! Idiocy!!

[puipuitom]

22 hours ago, david555 said:

Avoid total disaster by taking your allowed 400K in cash , as soon allowed...., and only return it to bank when the needed date is there again , at least you have  400K under your own hand if you fear some unrest situations ...

 

Cash is still king, Gold emperor , and plastic is only money as long no body press a special  button or certain  phone call …… after that it is only plastic ….same for bank account

I agree competely. Too often the Thai government changed regulations. so I leave just enough money in Thailand to fulfil the regulations. The rest.. outside TH.  What I did not need of the THB 65k/m, outside once a 3-6 months, to be used for the next monthly transfer(s).

Edited March 6, 2020 by puipuitom

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

$2300 is about ฿72,000. That's an ok sum unless you're the sole provider of a big Thai family. If someone moved to Thailand from let's say the UK a few years ago they have seen the £ go down. If they had + ฿5,000/month at the time and then suddenly they were below 65k/month,imo that's being unprepared. You need to be able to handle crappy exchange rates over time when moving to another country as a retiree. I know loads of people having no money what so ever in a Thai bank and now their pension is below 65k/month. 

I did my financial planning back in 2002 with my 2 pensions and the state pension to come, plus 7 more years of work before retirement.

 

I was well in excess of 65K baht a month.

 

Who in 2002 could predict the financial crash of 2008? Certainly not the "financial expert whiz kids" as they were all caught out as well.

Who could know in 2002 that Brexit would turn up 14 years later? Certainly not the "financial expert whiz kids" as they were all caught out as well.

 

Who even 3 years ago would have predicted a trade war between the USA and China?

 

The forex rate is the killer in this type of planning. If you were a "financial expert" you might be able to figure out ways of bypassing things like that, but if you were a REAL financial expert you would be rich.

 

Now I am on about 6x,xxx a month and just a little short to qualify for a retirement extension but still living fairly well.

 

I haven't touched the political side of living in Thailand but the last coup 6 years ago did nobody but a few people much good.

 

I read as many people do what the Thai economy is doing in a general fashion and most reports say that the Thai economy has slowly contracted over the last 5 years or so, the the financial growth "may be 1 to 2% this year, the lowest in over 5 years.

 

Who could have predicted, even 6 months ago that Covid19 would cause so much havoc worldwide?

 

For all you "rich" people that have plenty of money etc please remember that although you control your finances, there are many extras that can affect you and you will never know what they are until it happens.

 

I was in Thailand in 1997 when around the middle of July 1997 the GBP dropped from around 43/44 thb to 37. By December 1997 it was over 77.6 thb in 6 months.

Who knew that was coming?

 

It peaked in January 1998 at 90.6745 thb to a low of 59.3751 in December 1998.

 

The first link is for 1997 qnd the second for 1998 using KBank historical rates.

 

https://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-graph-zoom.php?C1=GBP&C2=THB&A=1&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1997&DD2=31&MM2=12&YYYY2=1997&LARGE=1&LANG=en&CJ=0&MM1Y=0&TR=

 

https://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates-graph-zoom.php?C1=GBP&C2=THB&A=1&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1998&DD2=31&MM2=12&YYYY2=1998&LARGE=1&LANG=en&CJ=0&MM1Y=0&TR=

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by billd766
added extra text