Saraburi Immigration March 2020

[Saraburi121]

I didn't transfer funds to top off my K-Bank account soon enough to meet the 400k two month seasoning for my Non-O 1 year extension.  Yes I know bad on my part, beat me up later.  I figured I could use the 40K per month minimum deposit from my US account -> K-Bank instead.  I deposited minimum 120K Baht per month to my K-Bank account for over one year and at the time of applying had 600K account balance.  Bank statement clearly showed the deposits and even had K-Bank put in a letter that deposits originated from overseas. 

 

An immigration officer new to the office looked at my paperwork and said I did not have 400K seasoned and could not grant my extension.  I  replied please look at my bank statement I have over 40K deposited every month for the last year.  She said I needed the "guarantee" paper that the US Embassy does not issue anymore (Income Affidavit) to use the 40K method along with my bank statement.  I tried to explain that providing the bank statement with 1 year proof of over 40K deposits is the proof required now that the US income affidavits are not issued.  Am I misunderstanding the 40K method or is this one of those situations where the office interprets the rules with their twist?  Please correct me if I am wrong on this,

 

The last time I renewed my extension I had the affidavit from the US Embassy dated December 2018, applied for the extension on January 4th at the Saraburi Office.  The IO said as of January 1st 2019 US affidavits would not be accepted by Saraburi Imm.  I tried to explain that other offices were honoring them 6 months from date of issue, even though the US Embassy does not issue them, to no avail.   It seems this office really has their own take on interpreting regulations.  Nice folks but seem to have their own spin on things. 

 

Really not a big deal, just go to Savannaket (seems like least hassle/don't want to fly with the virus situation) drink some Beer Lao and read books for a day or two then reapply for extension later.  Bottom line is if you are a US citizen in Saraburi trying to extend your Non-O 1 year, the 400K is the only method.   

[ubonjoe]

You can certainly prove your income by showing proof of 12 months of transfers from abroad. I used that method last August when I applied for my extension.

The from the police order amending clause 2.18 if police order 138/2557.

 

 

Download: Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income 

[zoza]

it is unfortunate that we are stuck in a situation were even if we obey the rules to the letter, there is still no guarantee that this office or even this officer may decide differently to every other office/officer in Thailand.

and just when you think you have it all covered, they will change one or two regulations every year, just in case you are relaxed and think you have got everything done.

Edited March 6, 2020 by zoza

[Saraburi121]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can certainly prove your income by showing proof of 12 months of transfers from abroad. I used that method last August when I applied for my extension.

The from the police order amending clause 2.18 if police order 138/2557.

 

 

Download: Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income 

Thanks Joe, pretty black and white to me.  I will take this document back and see if I can get some clarification from the IO.  

[phutoie2]

1 hour ago, Saraburi121 said:

Thanks Joe, pretty black and white to me.  I will take this document back and see if I can get some clarification from the IO.  

Well good luck with that,  I was turned down flat at Phetchabun Immigration last week trying to use the monthly income method for a marriage extension. Its 400K baht in the bank only.

I showed them the police order, bank books and the example Thai bank statement letter that has been shown on this forum several times.

Just a flat 'No, No, No, cannot do'

Incidentally Phetchabun will not let retirement extension folk do the combination, or monthly income method without an Embassy letter. Informing them that Brits, Aussie and US cannot do gets you nowhere.

I am normally a calm sort of bod, but twenty minutes in the presence of the officer in charge of that place nearly made me lose it.

Edited March 6, 2020 by phutoie2
error.

[zoza]

1 hour ago, Saraburi121 said:

Thanks Joe, pretty black and white to me.  I will take this document back and see if I can get some clarification from the IO.  

 

1 hour ago, Saraburi121 said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Saraburi121 said:

ou can certainly prove your income by showing proof of 12 months of transfers from abroad. I used that method last August when I applied for my extension.

The from the police order amending clause 2.18 if police order 138/2557.

I thought at one point I had it sorted, my money 400,000 + was in the Bank and had been for a year I had a monthly money transfer of about 50 k + and then my monthly transfer came out ''dummy branch''

 

I know I will change banks

after months of trying to get a better label on my monthly transfer, I goes to immigration for a certificate of residence ''no we do not do them for banks any more '' so snookered again but surely my bank can confirm

and I checks my bankbook and last August my brother was taken into intensive care back in the uk I went back and when I checked I had only transferred 20k to my wifes account as I spent a few weeks with my family

back in the UK, what are the odds of being understood when explaining Hospital emergency flight back and for that month no 50k transfer as I was

not in Thailand... from my dealings lately no chance    

Edited March 6, 2020 by zoza

[Saraburi121]

46 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

Well good luck with that,  I was turned down flat at Phetchabun Immigration last week trying to use the monthly income method for a marriage extension. Its 400K baht in the bank only.

I showed them the police order, bank books and the example Thai bank statement letter that has been shown on this forum several times.

Just a flat 'No, No, No, cannot do'

Incidentally Phetchabun will not let retirement extension folk do the combination, or monthly income method without an Embassy letter. Informing them that Brits, Aussie and US cannot do gets you nowhere.

I am normally a calm sort of bod, but twenty minutes in the presence of the officer in charge of that place nearly made me lose it.

Thanks for the reply, guess I'm not the only one.  I wonder how many other offices refuse to accept the 40K/65K method?  I too am usually very calm but it was very hard to maintain during my visit.  The visit started with the IO asking me where I got the TM.7 copy from, I said downloaded from the Thai Immi Website.  "This one no good" fill out this one which was the same document but with slightly larger font.  Seriously, worried about font size?

[emptypockets]

You refer to 400k. Do I understand correctly that you were applying for an extension based on marriage?

I always thought that for marriage it was either 400k in the bank or 40k monthly transfers, but not the combination method. I thought that was only applicable for retirement extensions. 

Edit. just reread the OP. Only using the monthly method.

Edited March 7, 2020 by emptypockets

[Saraburi121]

19 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

You refer to 400k. Do I understand correctly that you were applying for an extension based on marriage?

I always thought that for marriage it was either 400k in the bank or 40k monthly transfers, but not the combination method. I thought that was only applicable for retirement extensions. 

Edit. just reread the OP. Only using the monthly method.

1 year extension based on marriage using the 40k baht minimum monthly deposit from an overseas source was attempted  it was not successful. 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Saraburi121

[zoza]

39 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

You refer to 400k. Do I understand correctly that you were applying for an extension based on marriage?

I always thought that for marriage it was either 400k in the bank or 40k monthly transfers, but not the combination method. I thought that was only applicable for retirement extensions. 

Edit. just reread the OP. Only using the monthly method.

Sorry I am not sure if you are asking about my post, which I was just generalising about the way IMHO things have gotten more difficult no matter which Visa you apply for.

I did used to have a retirement Visa but changed to a married Visa due to the fact I already had 400.00K + in my Bank and although I transferred 40k + every month I could not get the kind of proof that Immigration wanted

since the British Consul income letters ended, and after trying to find another bank they then brought out the health insurance.

 

And paying 80k for insurance and next year 120.000 for a thing that I could never use seemed a crazy idea, and that meant it was a married visa or going illegal through an agent. my next move may well be me and the wife to Spain. depends on their next trick.

Edited March 7, 2020 by zoza

[Daffy D]

Many years ago I had a similar problem with the Immigration.

 

I had all the correct papers and covering Embassy letter plus letter from the Bank with original and copies of bank book. 

 

She barely glanced at my pile of papers and said "No good, need money in bank" and went on to attend to the next person.

 

Without the extension I would have to leave the country so with nothing left to loose I slowly and deliberately took out a notepad and pen and began to write down the name that was on the little plaque on the desk then proceeded to write down the name of other staff members from their shirt badges.

 

By this time I had got her attention so pointing to the name plaque I asked "Is this your name?"

 

"What you doing" she asked, and I told her I was taking the names to make a complaint to Immigration Head Office about this office not accepting my application.

 

End result was she took my papers gave me a "Under Consideration" and I went back later to get my one year extension, no problem and all smiles.

 

No saying this would work in all cases but just an option if you've gone through enough hoops and had enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Daffy D said:

No saying this would work in all cases but just an option if you've gone through enough hoops and had enough.

Most people - including myself - would be taken by surprise when their fully correct application would be refused for a bogus reason by an uninterested officer, and leave the Immigration Office shattered, angry and thinking how to proceed now.

But when you are 100% sure that your application is in full compliance with the IO requirements, yours is a very good approach to get their attention.  Thanks for the tip (sooner or later I will probably have to use it too)!  

Edited March 7, 2020 by Peter Denis

[OJAS]

On 3/6/2020 at 10:33 AM, Saraburi121 said:

Thanks Joe, pretty black and white to me.  I will take this document back and see if I can get some clarification from the IO.  

But, in case you get nowhere with the English translation provided by ubonjoe, you might instead wish to consider shoving the original Thai version attached under the grubby little nose of the IO who is giving you so much BS grief. The relevant passages (page 2 for marriage and page 3 for retirement) have been highlighted for the benefit of IO's who, like the one in your case, appear to be sadly lacking in the comprehension department.

Amendments to clauses 2.18 & 2.22 of Police Order 138-2557 TH.pdf

Edited March 7, 2020 by OJAS

[phutoie2]

17 hours ago, OJAS said:

But, in case you get nowhere with the English translation provided by ubonjoe, you might instead wish to consider shoving the original Thai version attached under the grubby little nose of the IO who is giving you so much BS grief. The relevant passages (page 2 for marriage and page 3 for retirement) have been highlighted for the benefit of IO's who, like the one in your case, appear to be sadly lacking in the comprehension department.

Amendments to clauses 2.18 & 2.22 of Police Order 138-2557 TH.pdf 1.95 MB · 7 downloads

Thanks for the download.

The advice I have been given is to go back to Phetchabun with all my marriage paperwork, bank statements and proof of pension from UK.  Submit it all and see what happens. This time my wife will be with me, before I was only making an inquiry. Hopefully we can get our point across about the monthly income method.

If they will not allow, its either a 60 day extension or a trip out of the country for a non O.  This will allow time to get the 400K again in the Thai bank account.

I deliberately ran down my account and live comfortably here off my UK military pension. 

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

...

If they will not allow, its either a 60 day extension or a trip out of the country for a non O.  This will allow time to get the 400K again in the Thai bank account.

I deliberately ran down my account and live comfortably here off my UK military pension.

At the Savannakhet consulate you can apply for a 1-year Multi-Entry Non Imm O - marriage Visa, with no need for any financials to be proven.

With that 1-year Multi-Entry Non Imm O - marriage Visa you are allowed stays of 90-days in-country after which you can either leave the country and re-enter (can be done same day) which will provide you another 90-day stay.

You can also at the end of every 90-day stay apply for an extension of stay.

Either for 60 days (no financials to be proven).

Or for the 1-year extension of stay, which would need 400K seasoned for two months.

So you have in fact almost 15 months to get the 400K back on your account, and if you don't manage to do that you can then simply re-apply at the Savannakhet office and rinse-repeat.

Only caveat being that thai authorities could eradicate the 1-year ME Non Imm O - marriage Visa in course of coming months.  That would be the case if they also rolled-out the eVisa system (already in place in UK, France and China) to other countries, as that system does not have a 1-year ME Non Imm O Visa option.

[Isaanbiker]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:41 AM, phutoie2 said:

Well good luck with that,  I was turned down flat at Phetchabun Immigration last week trying to use the monthly income method for a marriage extension. Its 400K baht in the bank only.

I showed them the police order, bank books and the example Thai bank statement letter that has been shown on this forum several times.

Just a flat 'No, No, No, cannot do'

Incidentally Phetchabun will not let retirement extension folk do the combination, or monthly income method without an Embassy letter. Informing them that Brits, Aussie and US cannot do gets you nowhere.

I am normally a calm sort of bod, but twenty minutes in the presence of the officer in charge of that place nearly made me lose it.

I understand you. I have just recently done my 90 days TM 47 and accidentally thought my due date would be the 18th of February.

 

Unfortunately, it was the 16th, and I came to the office on the 23rd. 

The two days before was a weekend, so it was only one day late.

 

They treated me like shi_e, and I had to pay 2,000 baht.

 

There's no way only to receive a warning. They were so rude that I was very close to losing my temper.

 

The young bloke finally got what he wanted, the 2,000 baht fine.

 

I've been here 18 years at the same office, and have been teaching here for 15 years. But that doesn't matter.

 

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

I understand you. I have just recently done my 90 days TM 47 and accidentally thought my due date would be the 18th of February.

Unfortunately, it was the 16th, and I came to the office on the 23rd. 

The two days before was a weekend, so it was only one day late.

They treated me like shi_e, and I had to pay 2,000 baht.

Next time do your 90-day reporting on-line.

I did it last month for the very first time, and it took me less than 10 minutes.

Here is the link to the website > https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do

The website also allows you to download a very comprehensive Guideline document on how to file your 90-day report on-line.  The Guideline is mostly in thai (with some english pages to) and contains screen-shots of all the steps and possible options.  But actually you do not need it, as the website - in contrast with the TM30 one - is really easy to use.

 

Also please note that to file your 90-days report on-line, that it has to be done in a 15 to 7 day window BEFORE your 90-day due date expires. 

It's best to mark that period in your calendar for your next 90-day report, as it will save you a trip to IO. 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Peter Denis

[fforest1]

On 3/7/2020 at 12:47 PM, Daffy D said:

Many years ago I had a similar problem with the Immigration.

 

I had all the correct papers and covering Embassy letter plus letter from the Bank with original and copies of bank book. 

 

She barely glanced at my pile of papers and said "No good, need money in bank" and went on to attend to the next person.

 

Without the extension I would have to leave the country so with nothing left to loose I slowly and deliberately took out a notepad and pen and began to write down the name that was on the little plaque on the desk then proceeded to write down the name of other staff members from their shirt badges.

 

By this time I had got her attention so pointing to the name plaque I asked "Is this your name?"

 

"What you doing" she asked, and I told her I was taking the names to make a complaint to Immigration Head Office about this office not accepting my application.

 

End result was she took my papers gave me a "Under Consideration" and I went back later to get my one year extension, no problem and all smiles.

 

No saying this would work in all cases but just an option if you've gone through enough hoops and had enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brilliant idea....

[Saraburi121]

I am going to do the S-Ket run and get the Non-O then apply for extension,  my 400K will be well seasoned by then.  Definitely will keep 400k + in the future years.  Would go somewhere else fun to get the Non-O (marriage to Thai) but worried about being stuck due to the virus, hopefully Laos will be okay until we return on April 1st.  Once I get my 1 year extension approved sometime in June I am going to pay a lawyer in Korat to help see if we can change the Saraburi office policy, probably not but what the hell.  Figure get my 1 year extension then try to fight it, bite the hand after it feeds you.  Maybe it will benefit someone who is living peacefully, trying to follow the rules, getting a good monthly income but just don't have the money to stash.  We will be moving to Singapore in 2021 for a job so won't have to renew next year.   Hopefully the people in the Saraburi office have moved on by then.  I truly enjoy living here but a few provincial immigration offices need to enforce the law as written. 

 

I do appreciate all the helpful comments and contributions on this thread, cheers all!

 

 

[Saraburi121]

My Non-O (marriage to Thai) extension ends March 31st.  I want to go now to Laos to get a new visa but not sure if the Thai consulate S-Ket will issue the visa early and I can be stamped in by the Thai immigration on the new visa due to having a multiple reentry permit.  If I did not have that my current extension would cancel when I departed Thailand. Anyone have any experience in a situation like this?  I have the financials so looking for a place closer to Saraburi to do a visa run, maybe the place near Kanchanaburi in Myanmar?

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Saraburi121 said:

My Non-O (marriage to Thai) extension ends March 31st.  I want to go now to Laos to get a new visa but not sure if the Thai consulate S-Ket will issue the visa early and I can be stamped in by the Thai immigration on the new visa due to having a multiple reentry permit.  If I did not have that my current extension would cancel when I departed Thailand. Anyone have any experience in a situation like this?  I have the financials so looking for a place closer to Saraburi to do a visa run, maybe the place near Kanchanaburi in Myanmar?

Your extension ends when you leave the country. A re-entry permit reinstates it when you enter the country using it.

The consulate in Savannakhet should issue the visa before your extension expires.

On entry to the country immigration will not normally insist on using your re-entry permit if you have a visa that allows a longer stay than it would.

You cannot get a new visa at a border crossing. You have a choice of Savannakhet or Vientiane to get a single entry non-o visa.

You could also get a 60 day extension at immigration to visit your wife and then apply for the one year extension near the end of it.

[Saraburi121]

Thanks UJ spot on as always.  Going to head to S-Ket and give it a try.  Already used the 60 day extension when Immi didn't accept my US Affidavit in January 2019 to season money, Saraburi Immi would not or could not give another 60 day. 

[OJAS]

On 3/7/2020 at 11:42 AM, Saraburi121 said:

1 year extension based on marriage using the 40k baht minimum monthly deposit from an overseas source was attempted  it was not successful. 

So I take it from your subsequent posts that the original Thai version of the Police Order sanctioning this method of proving finances didn't cut any ice with those incompetent clowns at Saraburi Immigration?

[Saraburi121]

Wish I could have updated as situation matured but here is my journey to gain a new visa due to my refusal using the 40K method. Been a blur the last few days.  So many threads and topics out there figured I would post it here. 

 

-left Saraburi at 8pm for a 8 hour drive on 15 March, Sunday to Mukdahan, crossed the Laos border at 11ish on 16 March, Monday. Caught a wink in Mukdahan before crossing. Beat. The drive was actually nice, no craziness. 

-rested on the 16th because too late to go to the consulate upon arrival.

-stood in line of about 30 or so on the 17th, Tuesday.  Many refused, more refused than granted in front of me judging on reaction.  Was refused a non-immigrant O (marriage to Thai) reason was because we had traveled to Singapore returning on February 18th and did not have papers stating that we had self quarentined/statement of health from our Saraburi local gov't health center.   When we returned from Singapore on Feb 18th it was a "recommended" to do. We did stay home except for groceries but there was no published need for documentaion as requested by Thai Consulate S-Ket.   The first lady that looked at our passport/paperwork was sympathetic but had another behind her that was " no you need this, you have to get from your province" My Wife told her there was no requirement and official would not give, started get nasty with my wife and my wife is the utmost polite.  I asked if I could get a cert of health in Laos answer "No"  Time to leave. 

-private car across the border back to try Saraburi Immigration again.  Another long drive which scares the hell out of me but the roads were peaceful except for the occasional crazy ones in an SUV, BMW, Merc or pickup that choose to pass when you can't (my experience on the road this trip).  Most drove sane. Watching the changing situation developing new courses of action as the info changed. Wife is on the phone monitoring Thai news. Now tired of 7-11 ham-n cheese. 

-Slept a night in downtown Saraburi,  got a new bank statement (K-Bank office downtown S-Buri freaking awesome and opens 0830) and Immi on the 19th.  Immi Office was packed like I have never seen.   Initial screening of paperwork was same, not two months seasoning.  Broke out the police order noting the changes after affidavits were not accepted from the USA other countries very tactfully.  Both officers that read it IMO had never seen it before judging from body language/expressions and lack of response.  Nothing said too much after that.  5 hours later had visa application accepted. Not sure if it was accepted because of providing the police order but did not question at that point. Maybe because the the virus, busy who knows. Will they do it again? IMO the office was really trying to help people out.  

-BIG THANKS to Ubon Joe and OJAS who provided the English and Thai translations to me of the police order!  I think it was the catalyst to get approval.  Who knows if policy will change there.  Thanks to all those on this thread who provided sound suggestions and suggestions and again Ubon Joe and OJAS for taking the time to provide the info, thanks!  This is what I think this forum is about helping each other, thanks. 

 

Going to drink some more beer and relax!