The State Of The Industry - Hiring Season 2007

[Scott]

I hate to be the one to get things back on topic (It'll be the first time I've ever done that!), but at our school the M.O.E. keeps changing the rules and meanwhile people's visa's are running out!

We hire (or do our best to hire) only qualified persons--by that I mean those that the MOE has told us are qualified. In our case that means you MUST have a University degree, we must have a letter to the University asking for verification of the degree, there must be a criminal records check, and now the latest is (if they don't come from an English speaking country) they must have IEll or TOFEL test. One person had a TOEIC and this was rejected (although another applicant to a sister school in the neighboring province it was accepted).

Oh and we had a person rejected because we didn't submit EVERY page of the passport, just all those with visa stamps from where she worked, then the first two blank pages and the last four pages--not good enough. Must have all of them.

We want to comply with them, but they keep moving the goal post on us. It's a nightmare. Meanwhile the clock is ticking.

By the way, all of this is just to get the letter from the MOE for the non-immigrant B visa. Once they have the visa then the whole thing starts over again.

[aussiestyle1983]

I hate to be the one to get things back on topic (It'll be the first time I've ever done that!), but at our school the M.O.E. keeps changing the rules and meanwhile people's visa's are running out!

We hire (or do our best to hire) only qualified persons--by that I mean those that the MOE has told us are qualified. In our case that means you MUST have a University degree, we must have a letter to the University asking for verification of the degree, there must be a criminal records check, and now the latest is (if they don't come from an English speaking country) they must have IEll or TOFEL test. One person had a TOEIC and this was rejected (although another applicant to a sister school in the neighboring province it was accepted).

Oh and we had a person rejected because we didn't submit EVERY page of the passport, just all those with visa stamps from where she worked, then the first two blank pages and the last four pages--not good enough. Must have all of them.

We want to comply with them, but they keep moving the goal post on us. It's a nightmare. Meanwhile the clock is ticking.

By the way, all of this is just to get the letter from the MOE for the non-immigrant B visa. Once they have the visa then the whole thing starts over again.

Now I can understand why the illegals do what they do. Congrats to them and it just goes to show, if you follow the system here, you will be fcuked around. If you work without a TL and WP but have not submitted fakes or told lies, well done, you have made the right choice!

[Ijustwannateach]

I've deleted *all* commentary about slayings and Koreans. Further attempts to bring it up in this thread will result in warnings and vacations. You have been warned.

"S"

[meman]

I've been following this thread with great interest as I'm tempted to come back and teach. A year for me wasn't enough it seems.

By reading this particular thread it seems practically impossible and the last few weeks have been quite disheartening. NOt enough to stop my thai lessons but still....

Yesterday I finally hooked up on MSN with one of my mates that I taught with. He is still in Thailand teaching without a degree and working without a permit. He confirmed that the popular farang areas, Patpong and Pattaya, are ghost towns compared to what they once were but he also mentioned he just came back from Laos with his three month visa.

He says with the current rules, a foreigner can get unlimited three month visas from the embassies, you just can't get more than two from the same embassy in one year. He's not concerned at all with the visa rules.

I'm not disputing or dismissing anything that has been said, Thailand HAS changed. I just found his experience refreshing and the possibility of returning to Thailand a reality!

[Whitey]

He says with the current rules, a foreigner can get unlimited three month visas from the embassies, you just can't get more than two from the same embassy in one year. He's not concerned at all with the visa rules.

I'm not disputing or dismissing anything that has been said, Thailand HAS changed. I just found his experience refreshing and the possibility of returning to Thailand a reality!

Those 3 month visa you are talking about are actually 2 month visas called tourist visas. Every time you apply for one, it's up to the embassy whether you will get it or not. But never mind, schools in Bangkok were raided and in the coming year I'm sure more schools will be raided. Ask yourself, do you want to be working in fear that any day immigration can raid your school and jail you for working on a tourist visa? Yes jail can happen. A few teachers can testify to that.

Don't discount this thread. You have to choose for yourself whether you want to live and work in such an environment. The posters on this thread have done their best to give you the information to make that decision.

[mopenyang]

He says with the current rules, a foreigner can get unlimited three month visas from the embassies, you just can't get more than two from the same embassy in one year. He's not concerned at all with the visa rules.

I'm not disputing or dismissing anything that has been said, Thailand HAS changed. I just found his experience refreshing and the possibility of returning to Thailand a reality!

Those 3 month visa you are talking about are actually 2 month visas called tourist visas. Every time you apply for one, it's up to the embassy whether you will get it or not. But never mind, schools in Bangkok were raided and in the coming year I'm sure more schools will be raided. Ask yourself, do you want to be working in fear that any day immigration can raid your school and jail you for working on a tourist visa? Yes jail can happen. A few teachers can testify to that.

Don't discount this thread. You have to choose for yourself whether you want to live and work in such an environment. The posters on this thread have done their best to give you the information to make that decision.

Agreed.

If someone wants to risk being an illegal teacher, then he or she should be prepared for the consequences if found working without a work permit.

[rufus123]

Be careful about coming to Vientiane for a visa from the Thai embasy here. They also want all the papers just so, and what you get depends on the mood of the person at the desk.

[Loaded]

I prefer to look at the glass as half full!

I have been here close to 10 years. Then it was difficult to find work in a school and most jobs were at language schools. Rarely wps.

To obatin a wp you have always needed a degree.

What's the big change? More paperwork? Yes, but there has always been heaps to become legal.

Loads of teachers working illegally, again no change from before.

The only time I have heard of teachers being arrested because of their papers was when those guys that used fake certificates to obtain wps were arrested earlier this year. In 10 years I have never heard of anyone being arrested for working without a wp. Thai authorities know; and if they were serious, they would raid every school today. They're not serious about it.

jai yen yen

I also know many schools that are now compromising on the degree thing as we get closer to the start of the new academic year. Especially the ones in provincial cities and towns.

[bogaty]

Just how difficult is it to get a Non-Imm-B visa in Thailand now? I had originally planned to move straight to Thailand from my job in Japan at the beginning of April but the criminal record check requirements scared me off as the RCMP said it would take a minimum of 4 months to process the request.

I came back to Canada, got the record check (took 5 minutes. BASTARDS!!), checked with the Thai consulate in Vancouver to make sure it was what they required and everything seems OK. Thing is, the school that wants me needs me there by May 14th at the latest, so there isn't time to get the visa application in and processed while I'm still here in Canada.

Would I be screwing myself were I to go to Thailand on a tourist visa and start the application process from there?

[thepizzaguy]

Sorry for the thread high-jack, but you can explain how to get a police check from Canada?

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry for the thread high-jack, but you can explain how to get a police check from Canada?

Here's the topic discussion, which you might have found by searching the Teaching forum for 'police check' or 'criminal record check' or 'clearance.'

Pardon me, I just tried that, and using RCMP as a search item, only came up with Bogaty's recent post in this thread, #39 above.

If you're out of Canada, you might send an email to a friend or relative back home and ask them to see if they can get it for you.

[bogaty]

Sorry for the thread high-jack, but you can explain how to get a police check from Canada?

Well, if you're outside of Canada, it sucks because you have to go to the local police station, get fingerprinted there (and in a manner which conforms to a certain standard), get the police to seal your prints in an envelope and then sign it whereupon you send it to Ottawa via registered mail. There's an $80 fee and a minimum 4 month wait involved.

If you're in Canada, just go down to your local RCMP detachment and tell them you want a criminal background check. You can go the fingerprint route as described above or you can just get a check of your name in their database. They give you a form to fill out and you can put limits onto the depths of the check. I was told by the clerk that you could only apply for this type of check in person yet I do recall seeing various security/PI type websites that said they could get these checks done for employers so maybe it is possible to get one done while overseas.

Anyway, there was no fee involved and it took less than 10 minutes to get it done.

Back to my original question. Should I go over on a tourist visa and start the non-imm-B application from inside Thailand or not?

[cmiuc]

I am going through a horrendous experience. I have been teaching here 'legally' with all the 'legal' documents for 4-5 years now... and this year is the worst.

I changed schools from the north to bangkok area, and I can never understand what we are foriegners are suppose to do. On my last day of my visa with my school I went to the office in Masai to get the 7 day extension so that my other school can process my work permit and visa... Well not only is immigration closed on Saturdays now, i had taken the bus from Phayao(terrible place to teach at), to find this out. Without leaving finally the IMIG Officer shows up. He spent 3 hours explaining to me that he couldn't help me and that I must go to Bangkok. He 100% assured me that I would not be fined as after that day,I would be in overstay.... of course I doubted him. But what can I do... he wasn't going to help me. The whiskey didn't even help.

So I went off to my new school in Saraburi, because they had filled out the paperwork wrong already... So I had to wait for them a day to do that, than off to Bkk i went... going to booth #1 and floor 5, 4 or 5 times coz nobody was taking responsibility... finally they made me fill out an new visa extension or something like that, and of course they were very eager to fine me... I started to protest as I had tried my very best to remain in the confines of the law. My old school told me that I could not sign another contract or leave my school until the last day of my contract, and of course I obediently followed them...resulting in my fine and discouraging time here in this country with all the BS. Anyway, i started to protest, and Capt Ying, put my paper off to the side... and said "next'... of course, she's got me by my huevos... So I paid.. .which the school wont pay me back of course. But she renew my visa for 7 days. and told me that 'I MUST BRING MY WORK PERMIT BOOK BEFORE THEY WOULD RENEW MY VISA TO THE LENGTH OF THE CONTRACT. Of course that is impossible..but who can I argue that, and of course my school didn't believe me and said, "oh the paper from the Labor office" would be enough... but I told them what 'Capt Ying said'... and luckily she gave me her mobile number coz she was soliciting me to work in another school for her friend... so i had my school call... sure enough, got to have the WP book. But of course, its waiting for the provincial govenor to sign it... So my 7 days came to an end, and the school just sent me off with the same paper work. But this time, I said that someone from the school should go with me, of course the gal who does the work made every excuse she had not to go...so they sent another small teacher who has noooo knowledge of these matters... but I didn't care, as I am not going to do any talking... But ended up I had to coz he was too busy 'wai'ng' and being a coward to speak up for this matter. Anyway, my visa had be delayed one day coz the general wasn't in... so had to come back the next day, in 'which' he only renewed my visa for 3 months, coz he said i need to show my work permit.... Now THE LABOR OFFICE.... they only will give me a work permit for the length of the visa(3 months)... and I spoke my mind to the teacher and to the idiot girl who doesn't do the job right or know what she's doing, (maybe I am wrong to blame her), but I spoke, always, my work permit has been the length or 1 year of my contract. Not to the visa... coz the visa is to the length of work permit... as it has been in the past... WHAT IN THE HECK IS UP WITH ALL OF THIS MASS CONFUSION? Why is it like this? Not to make any more matters, but Director of the school only wants to renew all Farangs contracts on a semester by semester basis... He is doing this per his lawyers request... so this school is only giving 7 month visa/wp/contracts... Again, does anyone know or can someone point me in the right direction so I can have a sanity check about all of this mumbo jumbo? Is there anything I can do? I have been in this country for 6 years, 2 as an engineer and 4 as a teacher for the EP. I have legal degree etc... I feel like the dog is chasing its own tail and i am the dog...

please msg me or post me a reply so i can check or email me at khunkru_at_gmail.com.

thank you kindly!!!

C

[KhunLing]

I hate to be the one to get things back on topic (It'll be the first time I've ever done that!), but at our school the M.O.E. keeps changing the rules and meanwhile people's visa's are running out!

We hire (or do our best to hire) only qualified persons--by that I mean those that the MOE has told us are qualified. In our case that means you MUST have a University degree, we must have a letter to the University asking for verification of the degree, there must be a criminal records check, and now the latest is (if they don't come from an English speaking country) they must have IEll or TOFEL test. One person had a TOEIC and this was rejected (although another applicant to a sister school in the neighboring province it was accepted).

Oh and we had a person rejected because we didn't submit EVERY page of the passport, just all those with visa stamps from where she worked, then the first two blank pages and the last four pages--not good enough. Must have all of them.

We want to comply with them, but they keep moving the goal post on us. It's a nightmare. Meanwhile the clock is ticking.

By the way, all of this is just to get the letter from the MOE for the non-immigrant B visa. Once they have the visa then the whole thing starts over again.

Meanwhile, teachers can get four times the pay in Korea and have it all done professionally.

Three times the pay and have it done expertly in Malaysia.

Higher pay and way fewer hassles in Vietnam.

Thailand just doesn't compete when it comes to visas and treating teachers with respect..............

[phosamton]

For what it's worth, I would not recommend starting a new life, or even a new chapter in Thailand as an English instructor.

I have no personal horror stories, and actually love my job, the students, and my Thai colleagues are outstanding in their English abilities and their dedication, professionalism and on top of that they are incredibly supportive of us three foreign instructors in the department. I love the house that I rent. And I love my social life.

Still, I can't in good faith recommend this for anyone who doesn't already know the ropes, as it's been stated already, it takes a couple years to find that place to fit in. I recently signed another contract, one I am pretty sure will be my last before exploring a different country to live and work. I want to leave before all of the "other" stuff, human rights abuses, morality dogma, censorship, tolerated racism, etc. get to me so that I can no longer see the good in anyone, or appreciate the things that are beautiful about this country and the positive teaching experiences I've had.

The story Whitey shared at the immigration desk at the airport is unbearably frightening. The other stuff, bad too, but this....detaining your son for a ransom...puts a very sick feeling into my stomach