The world is changing. How will Thailand react?

[digibum]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

No, but you can treat some of the symptoms can't you?

 

It is the symptoms which can, if you are vulnerable, kill you?

 

Exactly.  He has a rather limited and uninformed point of view on this. 

[NCC1701A]

2 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

We need to look at it one way and one way only. The Chinese made this in their lab and let the cork pop out of the bottle. It is their fault and they should be severely scolded for this.

even if they did not make it in a lab, and this has been scientifically disproved by DNA analysis, they did suppress the information by arresting the first eight doctors who sounded the alarm. then they delayed as long as possible while they cranked up production over night using their gigantic communist slave labor force to make masks and everything needed to fight a pandemic. they had about a month lead time compared to the rest of the world.  now they are coming out as the saviors of the world offering free support to everybody except the USA of course. They are really going after Italy now.

 

they run a huge social media disinformation campaign running 24/7 against the west. no different than radio Moscow during the cold war.

it is a real opener to monitor Radio China International on the short wave bands. Broadcasting the poison and lies in Thai and just about every language in the world.

[mike787]

Relax, there is a reason for everything.  Enjoy thailand, your life, beer, cigs, sex, whatever you do....If you can't, then panic and see if that works better, eventually calmness will prevail and hopefully common sense....good luck.  

[soalbundy]

3 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Actually, and please dont take this the wrong way anyone, but on this level of thinking I see the corona virus as a good thing in this regard, and it is worth discussing what will happen in Thailand over the next 1-3 years for Expats. The economic disaster that has been going on for years has started to bite because of this virus.  The virus has clearly shown the dangers of the all eggs in 1 basket tourism approach (discourage westerners). And the virus has clearly shown the downside of pushing out the Expats. 

 

But the point is, will it lead to Thailand changing those anti-western Expat policies, or will it lead to them doubling down on them.  I think it will be one or the other - I cant see it not being addressed - the issues and results are on full show and I can assure all TV posters that this is being talked about on many Thai media outlets and social media platforms (cannot link for TV rules).  Right now if there was an election this weekend, IMO the Junta would be thrown out, and most of their policies (especially towards westerners) would then be reversed. But the Junta might double down and all that, so it could get worse if/when they blame Expats and foreigners for it all. 

What anti-western expat policies ? follow the rules and you are OK and the rules haven't changed, any changes in procedure have come about because a few embassies have changed the status quo started by the UK embassy who needlessly rocked the boat (the UK seems to be good at rocking the boat in Europe as well).

I am in my 15th year in Isan and have never ever noticed any ant-western sentiments, just the opposite, the police and IO's are generally friendly and helpful and the ordinary people have always been like that and still are. As Shakespeare once wrote, "nothing is good or bad, only thinking makes it so"

Edited March 14, 2020 by soalbundy

[Matzzon]

58 minutes ago, Traubert said:

You'll have to excuse him. He tells us that he has been drunk since 12th January.

Must be nice of you to play not understanding. Do you always get hung on thing like this. It´s already explained, and over and done with. You´re starting to sound like a broken record.
 

55 minutes ago, khunpa said:

LOL! I am just waiting for the "If you don't like it here, then go home comment"

 

 

Why would you wait for that? 

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, khunpa said:

What a stupid comment to involve my children into a debate. Grow up man!

Not stupid at all. You are the one that should stand as a front figure for them. Where do you have any proof that millions of Thais think dirty farangs? That is just a made up story with a lot of racism in it. Doesn´t look good on you at all.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Traubert said:

Handshakes dont spread infection. There's whole series of events either side of a handshake that can make a handshake contribute to a possible communication of the disease. Maybe Thai people are a little more savvy than that.

Actually, they do when one of the people shaking hands either has coronavirus, or has been in contact with contaminated surfaces. That's why there are sanitizing dispensers in every shopping mall.

It would be a good idea for you to stop spreading wrong information.

[GeorgeCross]

4 hours ago, khunpa said:

Yes, but have you noticed any other officials disputing that or Thai people in general disagreeing publicly? The guy said what many millions of Thai people think. And there is not far from thinking something to acting on it. Especially, in times or crises.

 

well in fairness there was quite an uproar amongst thais on social media over his comments - they've even given him a nickname loosely translated as the dirty or devil rat. his comments did not go down well with the general populace

 

 

[Lacessit]

I've found Thais to be very pragmatic in their reaction to a given situation. Business as usual, if they can.

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

well in fairness there was quite an uproar amongst thais on social media over his comments - they've even given him a nickname loosely translated as the dirty or devil rat. his comments did not go down well with the general populace

 

 

I cant tell you what my wife said about him, the second word was OFF 

[Puchaiyank]

2 hours ago, ravip said:

Excellent decision!

Life is too short to whing and wimper eternally.

All the best and keep enjoying!  

No whining...no whimpering...Still love Thailand...government no longer farang friendly...got out on my terms...not theirs...????

[AussieBob18]

39 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

What anti-western expat policies ? follow the rules and you are OK and the rules haven't changed, any changes in procedure have come about because a few embassies have changed the status quo started by the UK embassy who needlessly rocked the boat (the UK seems to be good at rocking the boat in Europe as well).

I am in my 15th year in Isan and have never ever noticed any ant-western sentiments, just the opposite, the police and IO's are generally friendly and helpful and the ordinary people have always been like that and still are. As Shakespeare once wrote, "nothing is good or bad, only thinking makes it so"

I have to disagree. When I first went to Thailand in 2012 it was great and not that much of a problem.  But after the Junta came onboard they implemented a lot of changes. If you are saying nothing changed, then I have to doubt you have ever lived in Thailand. Those that 'broke this camel's back' nad made me leave and maybe now stay here, were the removal of the Aus Stat Dec, the mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account, the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance, and lately the TM30 rule. I am glad they dropped the TM30, but the chances of me ever going back very much depend on whether they remove those impositions and do not make rip off Thai health insurance mandatory for all Expats. IMO those bad Expat rules/laws will be gone with the Junta . 

 

And like Hamlet I never liked Denmark either - there is always something rotten in the State of Denmark.

And I can assure you, it is bad when someone sticks a sword in you - thinking does not make it bad - it is bad. 

[Aspaltso]

Its a good topic of discussion, but in my view the current situation whether Thailand can adjust or not has to do with "globalisation". How Thailand responds to globalised pandemics, economic events, or anything else will decide where it goes. This applies to any other country in the world right now. If you look at my home country the U.S there is an America first policy which is a direct result of globalisation. In my experience of living in Thailand, it has a lot of problems in dealing with other cultures, and situations not Thai so my belief is that it will have more problems in a globalised world.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Aspaltso
grammar

[AussieBob18]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

even if they did not make it in a lab, and this has been scientifically disproved by DNA analysis, they did suppress the information by arresting the first eight doctors who sounded the alarm. then they delayed as long as possible while they cranked up production over night using their gigantic communist slave labor force to make masks and everything needed to fight a pandemic. they had about a month lead time compared to the rest of the world.  now they are coming out as the saviors of the world offering free support to everybody except the USA of course. They are really going after Italy now.

 

they run a huge social media disinformation campaign running 24/7 against the west. no different than radio Moscow during the cold war.

it is a real opener to monitor Radio China International on the short wave bands. Broadcasting the poison and lies in Thai and just about every language in the world.

Well said - and I wish more people knew the truth about China.  The reality is that under Clinton China was let into the world trade, because rich people and businesses and fianacial empires knew they could get rich.  They knew that things made there would be so much cheaper than in USA/Aus/UK/EU - it was all about profits and wealth.  That the western pollies allowed for decades Chine to get rich at our expense is an ef in disgrace.  I wont get too political but the election of both Trump and Johnson, and the growing move right, is in response to workers losing so many jobs and so many factories closing.  Make no mistake about - this virus 'escape' and being allowed to travel around the world, and keeping quiet about it, is just the sort of thing a communist country would do when it is losing.  And make no mistake - the Pollies that listen to the people and act against China are going to get supported - China must and should be put back in its place - and if Thailand keeps on their side - then Thailand goes down too.  There is another 'cold war' coming and the USA led west will win it again.  

[digibum]

42 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Those that 'broke this camel's back' nad made me leave and maybe now stay here, were the removal of the Aus Stat Dec, the mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account, the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance, and lately the TM30 rule.

Aus Stat Dec - Do you agree or disagree with the fact that this was being blatantly abused by many?  Did it or did it not seem almost too good to be true that someone could put anything they wanted on that form and go to their consulate and have them "certify" it? 

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it made things difficult for some but what was the Thai government supposed to do when people were abusing the system so flagrantly? 

 

IMHO, they should have never allowed it in the first place as it was easy to see that people would abuse it. 

 

the mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account - Technically, not true.  You could also hold a certain amount in your bank account and bypass the monthly requirement. 

 

And, are you saying that you think that Thailand is being unfair to require people seeking a long-term visa to be able to show they have the financial means to support themselves? 

 

the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance - Again, are you suggesting it's a bad idea that people of retirement age not be required to show proof of insurance?  Just trying to clarify if you're objecting to having to have insurance vs the choices you were provided.  Because if it was the choices, I think most of the common insurance companies are included. 

 

the TM30 rule - Which was dropped (as you noted). 

 

So you left a country because they required you to prove that you had the financial means to live there and required you to have health insurance, or was it for some other reason? 

[Lacessit]

50 minutes ago, digibum said:

Aus Stat Dec - Do you agree or disagree with the fact that this was being blatantly abused by many?  Did it or did it not seem almost too good to be true that someone could put anything they wanted on that form and go to their consulate and have them "certify" it? 

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it made things difficult for some but what was the Thai government supposed to do when people were abusing the system so flagrantly? 

 

IMHO, they should have never allowed it in the first place as it was easy to see that people would abuse it. 

 

the mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account - Technically, not true.  You could also hold a certain amount in your bank account and bypass the monthly requirement. 

 

And, are you saying that you think that Thailand is being unfair to require people seeking a long-term visa to be able to show they have the financial means to support themselves? 

 

the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance - Again, are you suggesting it's a bad idea that people of retirement age not be required to show proof of insurance?  Just trying to clarify if you're objecting to having to have insurance vs the choices you were provided.  Because if it was the choices, I think most of the common insurance companies are included. 

 

the TM30 rule - Which was dropped (as you noted). 

 

So you left a country because they required you to prove that you had the financial means to live there and required you to have health insurance, or was it for some other reason? 

I've managed to negotiate Thai visa and retirement extension requirements for ten years now. Irksome, but the rules are there. If you're too stressed to be bothered with them, hire an agent.

The Australian Stat Dec was lumped in with the American affidavit. Too many people lying in their teeth, the bubble had to burst eventually.

It's a complete falsehood Thai health insurance is compulsory. If that were true, I would have been booted out of Thailand years ago, because both my age and pre-existing conditions mean I can't get it at any price.

[CartagenaWarlock]

7 hours ago, baansgr said:

without tourism dollars they are a p poor nation...prior to the millions that started coming in the early 2000s, Thais rarely had a car, telephone or even a TV...theoe days are around the corner very soon again

Except Western countries whose economic foundations were laid on colonization and looting its colonies (e.g. UK has looted 40 trillion from India), and chattel slavery, most countries were poor. China, India, Singapore, Malaysia all have escaped poverty and have plenty of cars and TVs. They did not use tourism as a source for their incomes. Thailand should slowly reduce its GDP from tourism and diversify like Malaysia or China. And before colonization, every country was poor in today's standard. It is not the tourism but science and technology, and its adoptions that matter. 21st century will be Asian century. 

[AussieBob18]

14 hours ago, digibum said:

Aus Stat Dec - Do you agree or disagree with the fact that this was being blatantly abused by many?  Did it or did it not seem almost too good to be true that someone could put anything they wanted on that form and go to their consulate and have them "certify" it? 

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand that it made things difficult for some but what was the Thai government supposed to do when people were abusing the system so flagrantly? 

 

IMHO, they should have never allowed it in the first place as it was easy to see that people would abuse it. 

 

the mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account - Technically, not true.  You could also hold a certain amount in your bank account and bypass the monthly requirement. 

 

And, are you saying that you think that Thailand is being unfair to require people seeking a long-term visa to be able to show they have the financial means to support themselves? 

 

the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance - Again, are you suggesting it's a bad idea that people of retirement age not be required to show proof of insurance?  Just trying to clarify if you're objecting to having to have insurance vs the choices you were provided.  Because if it was the choices, I think most of the common insurance companies are included. 

 

the TM30 rule - Which was dropped (as you noted). 

 

So you left a country because they required you to prove that you had the financial means to live there and required you to have health insurance, or was it for some other reason? 

Fair enough questions.  But firstly please read again my comment - 'the straw that broke this camel...' means there were lots of other straws, but those were the 'final straws'. 

 

Now before I give answers to your points, please also read 'when I first came in 2012'.  At that time I had researched and decided where to retire for years - Thailand was not the only option.  At that time Phillipines, Bali, and Malaysia were good options, but I chose Thailand.  Right now, under the current rules, Thailand would not have been selected.  The rules and regs for all those other countries is basically the same now as it was back then. Thailand changed the rules.  

 

So - on that basis - Thailand changed the rules - I will answer your points:

 

Aus Stat Dec - There was no negotiations or consideration of what it meant for those that did have ample money and income (me) and what impositions that would cause me (and others like me). I had made financial arrangements based on that Stat Dec.  Plus - when I applied for the Retirement Visa I have to PROVE I had the financial capability before being approved.

 

The mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account -  There was no negotiations or consideration of what it meant for Expats.  Without the Stat Dec I had to either deposit 800K Baht ($40,000 AUD) into a Thai bank account earning little/no interest or transfer over every month the minimum amount - whether I needed it or not.  Malaysia in 2012 required a deposit of $35K AUD into an investment account (OK interest rates) - but that gave you a 5 year Visa automatically renewed for another 5 years, no need to apply to leave or re-enter, ability to purchase any property (over a certain value), tax deductions for a new car, ability to become a resident, no 90 day reporting, and others I cannot recall.  Thailand suddenly demanded that I pay them more, and gave me NIL benefits and still demanded I comply with all their other rules and regs.

 

The compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance - I agree that all long-term Expats should have health insurance, and I did. But it was a Million Baht IP only, and cost half of what the new mandated Thai policies were charging. I calculated that over 20 years, the new health insurance policies would cost be an extra 1.5Million Baht - for 400K IP (total) and 40K OP.  Rip Off Scam.

 

The TM30 rule - The was so obviously bad and unfair, that they dropped it.  No admissions No apology - But I udnerstand Thais so know that would not ever occur.

 

And there are many other things that changed since 2012.  So now do you understand?  I could go on about the many other things if you are still ignorant of why Expats like me have left Thailand and may never return.  Suffice to say if I wanted to pay money and get great benefits in a country that wanted me - and not the sexpats and rif-raff, I would have chosen Malaysia. And if I wanted an easy laid back option with more 'western' offerings and options, I would have chosen Phillipines. Either way I would not have chosen Thailand. 

[Sametboy2019]

Could be that reports are being suppressed because lack of testing but if the numbers increase dramatically like Italy I wouldn't be surprised if the falangs get the blame.

[PatOngo]

20 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I had a Thai tell me the virus is spreading here because of Falang culture.

They like to shake hands when they meet people, thus spreading the infection.

Would not doubt that many Thai people believe it is all Falang fault.

I didn't realise they called their Chinese cousins farang! I always thought they called them ai jek!

[soalbundy]

17 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

I have to disagree. When I first went to Thailand in 2012 it was great and not that much of a problem.  But after the Junta came onboard they implemented a lot of changes. If you are saying nothing changed, then I have to doubt you have ever lived in Thailand. Those that 'broke this camel's back' nad made me leave and maybe now stay here, were the removal of the Aus Stat Dec, the mandated monthly desposit into a Thai bank account, the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance, and lately the TM30 rule. I am glad they dropped the TM30, but the chances of me ever going back very much depend on whether they remove those impositions and do not make rip off Thai health insurance mandatory for all Expats. IMO those bad Expat rules/laws will be gone with the Junta . 

 

And like Hamlet I never liked Denmark either - there is always something rotten in the State of Denmark.

And I can assure you, it is bad when someone sticks a sword in you - thinking does not make it bad - it is bad. 

My IO in Isan told me that they weren't interested in TM30 if I'm not going abroad, my confirmation of income by the German embassy is still accepted as always, and I have always had a Thai health insurance, stupid not to have one, my income is transferred monthly to my Thai bank account anyway via 'Transferwise' a far better arrangement than ATM withdrawals that I had before because I get a better FX rate now so as far as I'm concerned nothing has changed. If you look for negativity you will find it, like the whinging poms years ago.

[robertson468]

22 hours ago, Matzzon said:

They??? One diluted man has done that. 

Do you really mean "diluted" or do you mean "delusional"?

[robertson468]

Thailand will struggle to cope, not because of the citizens, but because of the Government and the "Hi-sos" who try to prop up their positions through derogatory comments and attitudes, but in all honesty, due to their feeling of inferiority to foreigners who in the majority of cases are far better educated and have a broader understanding of the World and the World Population and are also prepared to learn from others and when they are wrong, are prepared to change their minds and admit they have made a mistake.  Sadly, many of the Politicians live in a little bubble of their own where their benefits are more important than the people they should be serving and believe that the population should be revering and serving them.  Even worse still, they do not realise that most people can see right through them hence have very little respect for them.  If it goes bad with the Coroner Virus, I worry that this could be the tipping point for the Thais who might react enmasse quite badly.  I hope not.

[Matzzon]

15 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Do you really mean "diluted" or do you mean "delusional"?

I mean diluted, but if you want to add delusional to the injury, it´s perfectly ok by me.

[TheFishman1]

If you read what the Minister of health is saying about foreigners here in this country Nothing will surprise me here in Thailand TIT

[AjarnMartin]

23 hours ago, Matzzon said:

They??? One diluted man has done that. 

What’s a ‘diluted’ man? Someone who mixes water with his alcohol? ????

Edited March 15, 2020 by AjarnMartin

[bokningar]

18 hours ago, digibum said:

the compulsory ripoff Thai Health Insurance - Again, are you suggesting it's a bad idea that people of retirement age not be required to show proof of insurance?  Just trying to clarify if you're objecting to having to have insurance vs the choices you were provided.  Because if it was the choices, I think most of the common insurance companies are included. 

The insurance requirements is a scam.

It is only for some visa’s and that itself is proof it is only a scam or a test before demanding it for other visa as well.

The insurance options they point you to is really bad.

 

I agree that you should have an insurance.

But I would never have such a bad one. 40 k OP why? if you can’t pay that you should not leave home any way. 400 k IP not enough. And I want repatriation as a part of my insurance.

I never spend the whole year in Thailand. Have used a O-A visa for many years. I use good insurance and don’t want to pay for the time I’m back in my home country (expensive) Have the same demand of showing money in the bank as other O visa, just in my own bank home. I have the money but would never bring them here, where rules can change any time. Credit debit card makes it so it is no difference for me to access my money from home.

I love Thailand and have many friends here. But if the stupid insurance rule is still in effect when it is time to get my O-A vista for next winter. I will spend my money in some other country.

 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

23 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

Nothing will change. In a few months the problem is gone and then it´s business as usual. 

 

Indeed. And it's a thunderstorm and heavy rain here this morning. Very unusual for this time of year. So, in a few months Corvid will have peaked and fallen and floods might be on the radar as today's problem.

 

Few months ago same in Europe. Flooding, now Corvid. They might get drought next!

[d2b2]

For the first time in 5+ years living here, I have experienced outright discrimination and bigotry twice this week from Thais in Hua Hin. At a dermatologist a Thai woman glared and got up and moved to the other side of the room with her child when we sat down. Then, a really messy ladyboy (ridden hard and put away wet) grabbed a mask (laying on a table) and hurriedly put it on (Rolling her eyes) as we passed outside the supermarket (as if we posed a health threat to her).
Having never been made to feel unwelcome before, Hua Hin is becoming unhinged. 
We are are not young unkept drifters , we are an elderly, well groomed and dressed retired couple of means. 
It doesn’t bode well for when the situation begins to pull at the threads of Thailand’s infrastructure and capacity.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

I think it is a very dangerous situation and that is why i cancelled my visit to

THAILAND allthough it cost me dearly.

Indeed if the virus will beak thailand the way it is doing not to Italy, foreigners, or farang

as the locals call them, might find themselves in great danger. Not only from thai gangs and

criminals, but also from security forces who might find them as easy target.

as Pol Pot, the butcher from cambodia, said in his trial: "ASIA can be a wild place".

this comes from a man who did not hesitate to kill one third of his own people...

madness can break out in an unexpected way, once the bodies start piling up.

i've just red an article that says that this virus crisis might even lead to a new war

between china + china proxies and the farang world.