Dreambox For Legal Use

[jaideeguy]

I hope that i don't offend the moderator or anyone else by re-opening this thread.......but I am seriously interested in the LEGAL use of these dreamboxes. I just bought one and can't figure out how to ues it and was hoping that this forum could be of use for the understanding of it.

Can one purchase a LEGAL smartcard that would enable one to access all the many satelites that are beaming down their signals at us?? from Phil [aguila sat], Malasia [metasat?] or any others. maybe even UBC, if it was available at a fair price. I refuse to pay their rip off prices!!!

I have been screwed by my vendor up here in CM in that he sells the boxes but doesn't understand them or how to explain what he does [or more likely, doesn't] know in English.

So, what can these dream boxes do on the LEGAL side???

[Kyosuken]

As i mentioned in the other Thread it can access (without modifications) all the free Satellite channels available over here :

http://www.net42.co.uk/satellite/dreambox-...s.html#features (look at the auto setup)

You know that basic satellite offering you get in thailand (i don't recall the name of the company) ? for 10 000 baht if i am correct, you pay for a motorized dish antenna (about 120cm diameters maybe more, maybe less) and a decoder (installation fee included) you don't pay for subscription whatsover (no smart card/pay per view etc) and you have access basically to up to 300 free channels (called FTA : Free to Air) covering News channels, one or two movie channels, trillions of Indian/Arab/Chinese channels and some major international ones like TV5 (France) Arirang (Korea) NHK (Japan) Bloomberg (Usa) and the list goes on.... Most of channels are crap though

There is a section talking about Sky TV, but because this website talks only about UK i don't know anything about buying a card say from UBC and put it inside the Dreambox decoder. (As noted though someone said in the other Thread that you can do it and access the service).

Now the question is, why bother buying a dreambox (ok 300 channels but you will need luck and patience to find something good to watch), if you buy a UBC subscription ? cause the decoder of UBC does the job. The only part interesting for a gadget geek would be to stream it anywhere (with WIFI sounds good - AP not included), or to save streams to HDD for later watching. You will need a bit of knowledge to setup theses side enhancements, and have the required equipement too (computer/video-audio encoders/Network knowledges)...

Edit: http://www.jsat.tv/product.htm this site talks about what i was saying (sounds like i wasn't far from reality). BTW the site has different FTA type products, that can all be combined into one to get all the Free channels at once, the difference there is that the dish is setup to be static

[monty]

Difficult subject this one....

I'll try to clarify what is legal and what not in Thailand:

You can use the box to watch FTA channels. It's not a very good box for that when used stand-alone since you can only use it with a diseq dish positioner (very slow/expensive) as opposed to the 12V jack positioners normally used over here.

You can use it to watch UBC if you have a legal card from them for which you pay your subscription fees.

I think the card is some 150 Baht/month cheaper using your own equipment as opposed to renting UBC's decoder, so the saving is minimal.

That's it, anything else is illegal...

You are not allowed to watch DreamTV (Agilla), Multichoice, Astro etc. Even if you pay for a legal subscription card!!!!

All these networks show channels for which UBC has the sole re-transmission rights in Thailand. Any network showing any premium channel for which UBC has the Thai rights (National Geo, Discovery, HBO, Cinemax and so on) is not allowed to sell subscriptions in Thailand, and you are not allowed to use, legal or otherwise, any of those cards to watch those channels...

So it is within these guidelines we can discuss what the dreambox can do. And some nice stuff it can do, it's basically a small Linux computer!

You can stream satellite reception to a PC. You can use the dreambox to watch movies located on your Hard drive. You can remote control your receiver from any PC connected to your network...

All the more fun stuff such as EMU's etc is clearly illegal and not allowed to be discussed...

I will keep a close eye on this thread!

Cheers

[lor]

Not sure of the legality of this, but in European Forums where it is not allowed to discuss the Dreambox and sharing your real card with others they do allow discussions of sharing your card with yourself! ie other receivers within the same home watching the package you subscribe to. If any mod could say if this subject is OK I can give full details on how to set up two or more dreambox's to do that.

Chris

[monty]

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately illegal even within your own house!

You can pipe the signal throughout your house as much as you like, as long as each TV set connected is showing the same channel.

From the moment on you want to watch separate channels on your TV sets, you are legally binded to take out extra UBC subscriptions, although at a reduced price!

Your first TV set will cost you 1413 Baht/month, second and third set will cost an additional 248.48 Baht/month each.

This is when using your own equipment. (all for the Gold package)

Add an extra 155 Baht per viewing point if you rent the decoders from UBC...

Sharing your card is depriving UBC from revenue, plus if UBC would allow it they themselves would breach the contracts they have with the owners of the premium channels they show!

Check out here for UBC's pricing

[Jai Dee]

OK... enough of the personal attacks, flames and angry reactions.

Back on topic please.

[Sunny Valentine]

Difficult subject this one....

I'll try to clarify what is legal and what not in Thailand:

You can use the box to watch FTA channels. It's not a very good box for that when used stand-alone since you can only use it with a diseq dish positioner (very slow/expensive) as opposed to the 12V jack positioners normally used over here.

You can use it to watch UBC if you have a legal card from them for which you pay your subscription fees.

I think the card is some 150 Baht/month cheaper using your own equipment as opposed to renting UBC's decoder, so the saving is minimal.

That's it, anything else is illegal...

You are not allowed to watch DreamTV (Agilla), Multichoice, Astro etc. Even if you pay for a legal subscription card!!!!

All these networks show channels for which UBC has the sole re-transmission rights in Thailand. Any network showing any premium channel for which UBC has the Thai rights (National Geo, Discovery, HBO, Cinemax and so on) is not allowed to sell subscriptions in Thailand, and you are not allowed to use, legal or otherwise, any of those cards to watch those channels...

I will keep a close eye on this thread!

Cheers

Thanks for that clarification! Now, after reading this statement, I wonder whether I am allowed to ask the following question:

Does anyone see any legality issues (according to Thai law!) for the use of decoder cards that only decode content not offered by UBC? I know of some available, for Satellites that can be received here, and, reading the UBC page and your explanations, I must assume it ain't illegal according to Thai law!? I am not sure whether it is legal to use these cards outside their own licenses according to the companies they issue, and according to the law of the country they are issued at, but to all my knowledge these laws have no validity in Thailand.

Enlightenment someone?

Sunny

[monty]

I have deleted several posts, all being completely off-topic, and constituting unnecessary flaming and personal attacks.

This is the second public warning from the moderating team, any more of these posts WILL result in the offending members getting sanctioned.

Back on topic now, Sunny Valentine, if there are payTV packages available which do not overlap with any of the programming UBC offers, I see no problems from a legal standpoint at all IF you have a valid subscription for that package!

[Naam]

Your first TV set will cost you 1413 Baht/month, second and third set will cost an additional 248.48 Baht/month each.

This is when using your own equipment. (all for the Gold package)

Add an extra 155 Baht per viewing point if you rent the decoders from UBC...

i have the gold package and two receivers from UBC. would like to add a third point but nobody ever informed me that this is possible. besides that i would like to know where i can buy receivers and how much they cost approximately.

thanks in advance for any information.

[monty]

A simple receiver capable of decoding UBC costs around 4000-6000 Baht.

Most satellite installation shops stock them.

I'm not sure how to go about getting just the extra smartcard from UBC. I think they will want to have it confirmed somehow that the card will be used in the same household! Anyway, I think they'll still hit you with the 7000 Baht installation fee regardless of the fact you're gonna use your own decoder...

It used to be a maximum of two points per household, but not too long ago this was changed to 3 points....

[swain]

hmm I guess I understand the need to keep this site PC so you don't get shut down by the powers that be but I would like a full conversation about this equipment legal or otherwise.. so would it be out of line to suggest a another board or site that does have a unrestricted environment to talk about this subject? Or is that a no no as well?

[Jai Dee]

I'm afraid that links to other forums are also against the rules.

I'm sure however, that if you PM a couple of the more knowledgable members, they could point you in the right direction.

[Naam]

A simple receiver capable of decoding UBC costs around 4000-6000 Baht.

Most satellite installation shops stock them.

I'm not sure how to go about getting just the extra smartcard from UBC. I think they will want to have it confirmed somehow that the card will be used in the same household! Anyway, I think they'll still hit you with the 7000 Baht installation fee regardless of the fact you're gonna use your own decoder...

It used to be a maximum of two points per household, but not too long ago this was changed to 3 points....

thanks for the info. i will forget about my own receiver(s) especially as UBS gave me a total of three receivers until now free of charge to replace those which were fried by direct lightning hit on two occasions.

does a topic "lightning protection" exist? search was without result.

[Sunny Valentine]

Back on topic now, Sunny Valentine, if there are payTV packages available which do not overlap with any of the programming UBC offers, I see no problems from a legal standpoint at all IF you have a valid subscription for that package!

Thanks for the answer. Brings up two more legality questions:

1.) Programs which are distributed both on UBC and on Free-On-Air can't really change this standpoint, or? So, if I have a decoder for a Satellite which brings me progrms that - while on UBC - are also available on one or several non-scrambled feeds, that should be ok then?

2.) I for one doubt that there exists any valid Thai law that forbids the cloning or circumvention or whatever of alien programs that are not broadcasted inside Thailand, and also not licensed here. The only way to consider this action illegal would be via the copyright protection act. This is (at least in Thailand) not an official delict. It needs the action of the copyright holder in Thailand to prosecute. Therefore, with no licensee in Thailand, it is impossible to prosecute, and therefore not illegal. (Maybe not fully legal too, but hey, I did not invent these laws ...).

Sunny

[monty]

you're correct on both points!

Free to Air means just that, it's free

That's why I clearly mentioned "overlapping premium channels such as HBO etc blah blah blah"

On the other point you're also correct practically, legally it might be considered a grey area on copyright areas...

But as you say, when the foreign network does not have the right to sell in Thailand, they're also not gonna lose any revenue so I very much doubt they'll pop over at your house to sue you

[lingling]

Ok, so how about for "other use". I don't want to pay for the expensive UBC subscription but can't seem to find any clear info on how to get a decent replacement.

[Sunny Valentine]

you're correct on both points!

Free to Air means just that, it's free

That's why I clearly mentioned "overlapping premium channels such as HBO etc blah blah blah"

On the other point you're also correct practically, legally it might be considered a grey area on copyright areas...

But as you say, when the foreign network does not have the right to sell in Thailand, they're also not gonna lose any revenue so I very much doubt they'll pop over at your house to sue you

Thanks for that statement, too. I see it similar.

But, wouldn't you also agree under these circumstances that the use of Dreambox with all its features is fully legal (or fully not illegal, as stated before) in the case you have a valid subscription to UBC at the same time and place. Because I think that is what most users of these gadgets want: To extend the range of available programs into those not offered by UBC.

You're the mod here, you have the last word. But please think about this argument.

Sunny

PS: I would stand corrected as soon as anyone gives me full legal information on that topic, pointing in a different direction. A recent high court decision, or a law or valid regulation specifying this matter.

[monty]

Sunny, having a valid UBC subscritpion unfortunately doesn't make it more legal to have a box illegally descrambling Paytv!

It would probably legal (and definately risk free) if the network your are de-scrambling next to your UBC would have absolutely no overlap of premium channels, but unfortunately I know of none such packages...

As I posted before, legally, if you want a second box de-scrambling channels for which UBC has the Thai rights, then you need to pay for a second UBC de-scrambling smart card (although at reduced price) and NOT do it by way of sharing the original card or using a box which can de-scramble without a card!

Your first TV set will cost you 1413 Baht/month, second and third set will cost an additional 248.48 Baht/month each.

This is when using your own equipment. (all for the Gold package)

Add an extra 155 Baht per viewing point if you rent the decoders from UBC...

Unfortunately your presumption that most people just want to expand on what UBC offers is completely wrong.

People just want to watch without paying!

Ok, so how about for "other use". I don't want to pay for the expensive UBC subscription but can't seem to find any clear info on how to get a decent replacement.

LingLing, you won't find the clear info here, if you read the thread you'll find that waht you ask is illegal and can't be discussed over here...

If you want to stay legal, your absolute only option would be to cough up for UBC, or go for one of the local cable companies (which incidently will NOT show HBO, Cinemax, National Geographic, etc., UBC would have them shut down in no time!!!)

[Sunny Valentine]

Sunny, having a valid UBC subscritpion unfortunately doesn't make it more legal to have a box illegally descrambling Paytv!

It would probably legal (and definately risk free) if the network your are de-scrambling next to your UBC would have absolutely no overlap of premium channels, but unfortunately I know of none such packages...

Wel,l that's the question: "Does the possession of a potential murder weapon make you a murderer?"

So, in my view (and I am absolutely not certain on this on a legal level) the possession of an equipment which (among lots of legal use) can also do illegal things does not make the equipment illegal. CD Burners are legal in this country, as well as using the Bittorrent Network. What you do with these things determines whether you use them legally or not ... As long as you don't descramble channels on which UBC has the rights, and can prove this (i.e. by having the legal UBC subscription, and not using the box to use more feeds to TVs as zou have subscriptions) you should be ok.

I don't want to go into more detail, as this might compromise the thread, but you have to actively set up things in order to descramble programs with the box.

Sunny

[dominique355]

I just succeeded in setting up my Dreambox for legal view of all UBC/Truevisions channels. It's a bit tricky, especially if the box is initially set up for European satellites. I use the Gemini Project image.

The only problem I have now is that the harddisk cannot be formated. Initially I thought my old Harddisk had crashed, so I bought a new one (Hitatchi IDE 320 GB). The Dreambox sees it and recognizes it, but cannot format it.

Anyone any ideas?

[monty]

MAybe because it's already formatted in FAT32 or NTFS?

The Dreamboxes run Linux, so although FAt might work, NTFS would stand no chance...

[percy2]

Great thread.

To get to a specific example , would it be legal to set up your box to watch the African sports channels when they are broadcasting coverage of Championship football games.

Which I believe no one has bought the rights to in Thailand.

Cheers

[monty]

Doubt, again same reason, the South African network also transmits all of UBC's premium channels in the same package...

I'd love to get my hands on a subscription card opening just the ss1 till ss7 channels...

Rugby and cricket springs to mind, none shown by UBC...

[percy2]

Doubt, again same reason, the South African network also transmits all of UBC's premium channels in the same package...

I'd love to get my hands on a subscription card opening just the ss1 till ss7 channels...

Rugby and cricket springs to mind, none shown by UBC...

I would guess its about the content you descramble as against the content you have available, much like Sunnys comment about Burners and Bitorrent.

Cheers

[Guest Reimar]

I just succeeded in setting up my Dreambox for legal view of all UBC/Truevisions channels. It's a bit tricky, especially if the box is initially set up for European satellites. I use the Gemini Project image.

The only problem I have now is that the harddisk cannot be formated. Initially I thought my old Harddisk had crashed, so I bought a new one (Hitatchi IDE 320 GB). The Dreambox sees it and recognizes it, but cannot format it.

Anyone any ideas?

Check the spec of your Box! If the size of the Harddisk is limited below the size of that one you want to use, you can't format and use the HDD!

[dominique355]

I just succeeded in setting up my Dreambox for legal view of all UBC/Truevisions channels. It's a bit tricky, especially if the box is initially set up for European satellites. I use the Gemini Project image.

The only problem I have now is that the harddisk cannot be formated. Initially I thought my old Harddisk had crashed, so I bought a new one (Hitatchi IDE 320 GB). The Dreambox sees it and recognizes it, but cannot format it.

Anyone any ideas?

Check the spec of your Box! If the size of the Harddisk is limited below the size of that one you want to use, you can't format and use the HDD!

Thanks Reimar. I thought of this too and "jumpered" the HD to 32 GB, but still no success. A friend has a 300 GB HD and it works fine. My suspicion is that the image has a flaw. I use the Gemini Project image, Version 3.4.0.