'Single biggest shock': Airlines, airports battle coronavirus cash crunch

[Brigand]

It is surprising that such large corporations are only a couple of weeks away from bankruptcy in the best of times. This all goes to show just how fragile they are and how they run their businesses in a seat-of-the-pants style with no financial war chest or resilience so they can feed their shareholders. If it goes south for a few weeks they have their hands out for a bailout from the taxpayer who they have been shamelessly milking for billions and doing their damnedest to avoid tax any way they can. Any bailout for these greedy megacorps should be in exchange for shares that can be resold in the future with the profits too ...like the UK government did with the RBS (Natwest), or let them fail. Businesses need to be reminded that there is risk and downsides to not getting it right and they should have prepared for a crisis.

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, Brigand said:

It is surprising that such large corporations are only a couple of weeks away from bankruptcy in the best of times. This all goes to show just how fragile they are and how they run their businesses in a seat-of-the-pants style with no financial war chest or resilience so they can feed their shareholders.

Sound bites and slogans.

 

Do you know what airline margins are per passenger? Do lease payments cease when nobodys flying? How about payroll? Rent? Facilites maintenance?

 

At least Eur0pean airlines are subsidized LOL.

[Brigand]

15 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Sound bites and slogans.

 

Do you know what airline margins are per passenger? Do lease payments cease when nobodys flying? How about payroll? Rent? Facilites maintenance?

 

At least Eur0pean airlines are subsidized LOL.

Nice cherry-picking. The main point was if you want a bailout then pony up some shares in return.

[bristolboy]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Goodness me. How did we all survive without air transport in the past?

Beach shack in PATTAYA? Have you ever been there?

And we all got along fine with the internet, too. That was then this is now. The components of the economy are different now. Welcome to the 21st century.

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Thanks for that. I remember watching this after 9/11. I'm generally against bailouts. Let the weak die off and strong pick up the pieces. In this case, those left standing may not have enough capital. I'm struggling with my non-interventionist principles and the airlines being a pretty vital industry. More than that, the overhead involved is so high. From the US domestic view, we have Southwest, Fedex and UPS that are really solid. Other than those three, the rest can't last long. Obviously, Southwest can't take over the entire US passenger industry. So do we prop up these clowns like United, Delta and American who've already screwed the pooch? I don't like it. I also know I don't have all the answers.

The thing is, those US airlines used most of their cash for stock buybacks. To boost the price of the stock and allow corporate executives to collect bonuses in the form of cash and to redeem their stock options. And this is one of the reasons why the stock market is a not particularly intelligent way to judge the strength of the economy.

US airlines used up spare cash buying back shares

US President Donald Trump on Monday pledged to back the industry "100%".

But figures suggest major carriers spent almost all their spare cash in the last decade buying back their own shares...

Data revealed by Bloomberg show major airlines including United and American Airlines used up an average 96% of their spare cash buying back their own shares.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51903947

[Nyezhov]

7 minutes ago, Brigand said:

Nice cherry-picking.

Nice avoidance.

[bristolboy]

26 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Sound bites and slogans.

 

Do you know what airline margins are per passenger? Do lease payments cease when nobodys flying? How about payroll? Rent? Facilites maintenance?

 

At least Eur0pean airlines are subsidized LOL.

As I pointed out above, airlines are in this mess because they blew 96% of  their cash on stock buybacks.

Edited March 17, 2020 by bristolboy

[winslowsjardine]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

As I pointed out above, airlines are in this mess because they blew 96% of  their cash on stock buybacks.

Interesting

[JimmyTheMook]

F the airlines and their greed in paying for carry on bags and seat selection charges.

 

They've nickeled and dimed the customers for too long now unchecked.

 

 

[White Christmas13]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The good news is that there probably won't be the massive expansion of air travel that had been planned. Hopefully countries will be building better rail systems instead.

pretty hard to catch a train from Perth to Bangkok

[3NUMBAS]

13 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Give it a month or 2 and the airlines will be bankrupt.

and airports

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the off topic replies about the Thai Auto industry have been removed. 

 

[Crazy Alex]

50 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

The thing is, those US airlines used most of their cash for stock buybacks. To boost the price of the stock and allow corporate executives to collect bonuses in the form of cash and to redeem their stock options. And this is one of the reasons why the stock market is a not particularly intelligent way to judge the strength of the economy.

US airlines used up spare cash buying back shares

US President Donald Trump on Monday pledged to back the industry "100%".

But figures suggest major carriers spent almost all their spare cash in the last decade buying back their own shares...

Data revealed by Bloomberg show major airlines including United and American Airlines used up an average 96% of their spare cash buying back their own shares.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51903947

Let 'em liquidate. The strong shall survive. I'm sick and tired of incompetent corporations and their officers getting rewarded for malfeasance. Most of the US majors have already screwed their investors and employees at least once. I refuse to get sloppy thirds. ????

Edited March 17, 2020 by Crazy Alex

[androokery]

27 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

F the airlines and their greed in paying for carry on bags and seat selection charges.

 

They've nickeled and dimed the customers for too long now unchecked.

 

 

Oh please, are you sad everything isn't included anymore? I'm sure I can set up a web site for you where "everything" seems to be included in the base price. The tickets won't be the cheapest though. 

One reason these fares are all bare-bone, no-frills, everything-has-to-be-added is because of price comparisons online.

[androokery]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Let 'em liquidate. The strong shall survive. I'm sick and tired of incompetent corporations and their officers getting rewarded for malfeasance. Most of the US majors have already screwed their investors and employees at least once. I refuse to get sloppy thirds. ????

I think you've lost it. This is an extreme situation that isn't caused by incompetence of the corporations. Most if it ordered by national governments and the people who would suffer the most if this event leads to a cold survival-of-the-fittest situation are the lowest wageworkers everywhere. Cabin crews and baggage handlers. You can take your brown-shirted 1930's attitude of "the strong shall survive" and...

[geriatrickid]

13 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Airlines and Cruise Ships are going to be hurt for sure.

An alternative  for cruise ships at least maybe as  offshore quarantine centres?

Or maybe the  Seat of Governments? At least if  you don't like  em  you could sink em  ????

LOL @ quarantice centres for cruise ships.

The largest number of cases were on cruise ships. They are not set up for isolation.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

I really don’t think you guys get how much of a dire situation this is . The stock market is tumbling there is going to be some huge businesses that are going to go down the pan with millions of jobs with it . Along with that will be defaults on pensions . And world debt !! This is going to get very bad as panic and hysteria have kicked in big time . 

I think we do, but there is absolutely nothing WE can do about it except prepare as best as possible and carry on till we can't. I'm not going to sit in a corner crying about it till it ( or IF it ) really goes bad. So far no difference in my life ( small town- no panic ).

People that will be in the deep doodoo are those that thought it was OK to live on credit and take out huge mortgages.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Brigand said:

It is surprising that such large corporations are only a couple of weeks away from bankruptcy in the best of times. This all goes to show just how fragile they are and how they run their businesses in a seat-of-the-pants style with no financial war chest or resilience so they can feed their shareholders. If it goes south for a few weeks they have their hands out for a bailout from the taxpayer who they have been shamelessly milking for billions and doing their damnedest to avoid tax any way they can. Any bailout for these greedy megacorps should be in exchange for shares that can be resold in the future with the profits too ...like the UK government did with the RBS (Natwest), or let them fail. Businesses need to be reminded that there is risk and downsides to not getting it right and they should have prepared for a crisis.

Let them go bankrupt. People don't NEED to travel half way around the world to lie beside a swimming pool. See your own country instead, like we used to before cheap airlines introduced mass air travel. It's ruined countries like Thailand.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

And we all got along fine with the internet, too. That was then this is now. The components of the economy are different now. Welcome to the 21st century.

Times change. Economies change. The depression didn't end after a few months. If governments dictats destroy the economy badly enough, Humpty ain't getting put back together anytime soon.

[Dumbastheycome]

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL @ quarantice centres for cruise ships.

The largest number of cases were on cruise ships. They are not set up for isolation.

Yes. I  know. In fact medical opinion is  that  such ships  are  more likely  to be  breeding   grounds. But as  "Hospital " ships? Many have a  massive  capacity  for occupancy and self  contained systems.

Rather than  quarantine  as an isolation  unit for identified infected ?

I say this even in the  knowledge I have  a  very  sweet  long term  young  friend  who is a crew  member of a  cruise  liner  that  is  in a situation of  great suspicion  right  now  despite  no evidence to date of any  C-19  on board. I  hope  for  her sake  and all others  on board  it stays that way and the  ship will be  permitted  to dock  without  any paranoid  event although she informs  me  it has  already been denied original  point of end destination. Paranoia  rules  for the  moment.

[DaRoadrunner]

How will this affect Boeing? 60% of the company is involved in commercial jet manufacturing (40% in defense). Take a look at the acute nose dive in the BA share price.

 

https://www.investors.com/news/boeing-stock-coronavirus-crash-spurs-request-federal-aid/?src=A00220&yptr=yahoo

Edited March 17, 2020 by DaRoadrunner

[thaibeachlovers]

22 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

How will this affect Boeing? 60% of the company is involved in commercial jet manufacturing (40% in defense). Take a look at the acute nose dive in the BA share price.

Be a good time to buy then. This too shall pass and they will be making planes in the future.

[White Christmas13]

1 hour ago, androokery said:

I think you've lost it. This is an extreme situation that isn't caused by incompetence of the corporations. Most if it ordered by national governments and the people who would suffer the most if this event leads to a cold survival-of-the-fittest situation are the lowest wageworkers everywhere. Cabin crews and baggage handlers. You can take your brown-shirted 1930's attitude of "the strong shall survive" and...

What do expect of a trumpeter

[CGW]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Owning is a drag, and a money pit.

Agree with most of what you say , not the above. I enjoy owning, house is secure and exactly what I want to live in, rarely feel the need to venture out, have no neigbours  close by, my only monthly bill is electric, does living doesn't get any cheaper. Sure there was an outlay, but that's why I worked, to be able to afford to retire in comfort & security.

[CGW]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nothing is 100% secure. Sorry, but that's a fact.

I never stated it was - I agree ???? 

"prepare for the worst, expect the best" something like that is my motto, have to change the words about on occasion!

[sezze]

Tourism is why you all are here . Yes there is a lot of it , but if you weren't a tourist , you would be in your home country ( or are you native Thai ? ) . So comments like , i want the tourists away , is just stupid comment . Pattaya didn't excist in the 50's , and your life on the islands in the south would look totally different , no electric isnt so long ago on the islands .

No tourists = no tourist industry ( so no bars , no import foods , ... ) . I don't say you need it , but like i said , once you were at least a tourist also .

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, androokery said:

I think you've lost it. This is an extreme situation that isn't caused by incompetence of the corporations. Most if it ordered by national governments and the people who would suffer the most if this event leads to a cold survival-of-the-fittest situation are the lowest wageworkers everywhere. Cabin crews and baggage handlers. You can take your brown-shirted 1930's attitude of "the strong shall survive" and...

Well, actually, corporations were using most of that extra cash provided by the Trump tax cuts to buy back stock shares. That way, the execs not only get big bonuses but also get to cash in their stock options. It used to be against the rules for corporations to engage in stock buybacks. Now we see the reason why that was the case. 

[Traubert]

3 hours ago, Brigand said:

Nice cherry-picking. The main point was if you want a bailout then pony up some shares in return.

The RBS shares were given away. The UK government dropped billions on them.

[Chazar]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-advice-novel-coronavirus#exceptional-travel-advisory-notice

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies about divorces and housing settlements have been removed .