Must Read Italy passes China's coronavirus death toll, prepares to extend lockdown

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

How do the best Dr's stop people from catching the Wuhan virus?

 

They don't, people catch the virus in Germany. However, with an overwhelmingly OLDER population, 10,000 identified cases, so in reality 100,000 or 200,000 cases Germany has ZERO deaths from coronavirus.

 

This is most likely because Germans have been pioneers in respiratory disease medicine and have excellent medical facilities, a very good health system and the best doctors in the world.

 

The Germans have provided three times the intensive care beds the UK has, for instance. A German company is a market leader in respirators.

 

The fact that all the other countries with large numbers of cases have deaths but Germany does not underlines this.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Logosone

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, justin case said:

anyone has an idea why ITALY have so many to start with ???

 

did they have 1.000.000 chinese tourists per month and 150.000 from WUHAN ???

There have been theories of a different strain of the virus, possibly a mutation of the virus, being more "aggressive" than the original one.

I would not dismiss this theory as "rumours" yet, unfortunately we have to take all the theories in the news with a grain of salt.

[Opl]

It looks like how "herd immunity" could work out:

Links below explain it well and it's not specific to Italy only.

 

1 /the virus circulated unnoticed in the country from at least mid-January – thriving because so many of the infected had no symptoms at all, or only mild symptoms like a cough and a mild temperature

 

2/The country has the second-oldest population on earth, and its young mingle more often with elderly loved ones.

 

Superspreaders + PANDEMIC result in  unsufficient protective gear and hospital capacities 

 

( how to get ridd of your MIL)

Edited March 20, 2020 by Opl

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

There have been theories of a different strain of the virus, possibly a mutation of the virus, being more "aggressive" than the original one.

I would not dismiss this theory as "rumours" yet, unfortunately we have to take all the theories in the news with a grain of salt.

I read an article the other day where the theory was that a certain chunk of the population have a level of resistance if they had a certain flu that was going around a couple of years ago, it just so happends that having a certain strain of the normal flu a couple of years ago gives an immunity to covid, similar to getting harmless cowpox years ago gave a resistance to smallpox.

 

 

[Coremouse]

41 minutes ago, seajae said:

china is full of BS and its all simply to prop up their leaders the ccp. Even the chinese people are saying that it is BS and that china is still getting lines of people waiting to be tested and also building new hospitals for the infected, the ccp are trying to blame everyone else so they can remain strong and in power)and the simple minded are being sucked in), if the rest of the world hits them up for the fact they covered the virus up for months instead of allowing the rest of the world to know about it the ccp will fall to bits and china will beacome the back water it really is again. The truth is china cannot afford for the truth to come out because it will totally <deleted> up the country and their ambition to become the leading world power house, they are the dirty backwater of the world and resposible for all the current deaths from the chinese virus, xi is the orchestrator of all this trouble and the sooner he is gone the better

All those sensical politics <deleted>posting and no evidence to back your words. This virus situation is time for solidarity and science, not talkin <deleted> political nonsense. Do all those trumpus bois promoting hate speech to Chinese know the word 'decency' & 'humanity'? 

 

btw., Jiang & Zhang Yongkang started internet censorship, HU & Wen made real estate bubble happen. What Xi did? Actually arrested many corrupted official(include Zhang YK for internet censorship), stopped real estate bubble growning, whatever his motive is. China is a big integrated nation won't change course for any particular leader, just like US still running even Mr.bigliar is in charge. Consider that Xi actually is not bad it could be much worse.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Coremouse
clarity

[Logosone]

I would like to correct an earlier statement, Germany has had 44 deaths now.

 

With 15,000 (150,000) infected that still compares favourably with say the UK which has 2700 (27000) cases and not 44 but 137 deaths.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Logosone

[Logosone]

7 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

 

2/The country has the second-oldest population on earth, and its young mingle more often with elderly loved ones.

 

 

That would be the explanation right there for the higher death rate in Italy.

[christophe75]

And since we compare... why nobody is talking about :

-South Korea

-Taiwan

-Singapore

 

?

 

No lockdown, no "drama" there.

 

Why ?

 

Because : they are first world countries... when Italy, France, Spain became third-world (with massive migration from Africa).

 

Furthermore, regarding Italy, there is another obvious factor :

 

-the virus target weak people... old people

 

-and in Italy 22 % of population is over 65 years old (versus 11 % in China)

It's one of the oldest population in the world... Median age = 46

 

Add 1 + 2 = mess.

 

But, and sorry to remind you the facts...

 

With 3500 deaths from the virus in Italy (average age 79, and most of them with prior illnesses), when 647 000 italians died in 2019 and 630 000 in 2018... this "viral mess" is a statistical non-event.

 

Shocked ? Yes you should be.

 

What is shocking is the amount of artificial fear and terror.

Edited March 20, 2020 by christophe75

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, christophe75 said:

What is shocking is the amount of artificial fear and terror.

Well, i have to agree to a certain extent, and i just speak for myself, but the potential mass-hysteria scares me much more that the virus itself.

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, christophe75 said:

And since we compare... why nobody is talking about :

-South Korea

-Taiwan

-Singapore

 

?

 

No lockdown, no "drama" there.

 

Why ?

 

Because : they are first world countries... when Italy, France, Spain became third-world (with massive migration from Africa).

 

Furthermore, regarding Italy, there is another obvious factor :

 

-the virus target weak people... old people

 

-and in Italy 22 % of population is over 65 years old (versus 11 % in China)

It's one of the oldest population in the world... Median age = 46

 

Add 1 + 2 = mess.

 

But, and sorry to remind you the facts...

 

With 3500 deaths from the virus in Italy (average age 79, and most of them with prior illnesses), when 647 000 italians died in 2019 and 630 000 in 2018... this "viral mess" is a statistical non-event.

 

Shocked ? Yes you should be.

 

What is shocking is the amount of artificial fear and terror.

 

It's a nonsense to suggest Italy, the 9th largest economy in the world is a 'third world country'.

 

Germany and the UK too are effecting massive lockdowns. It has nothing to do with being first world or 'third world'.

 

But yes, Italy's ageing population was obviously a factor in the death rate.

[Coremouse]

21 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

If the Chinese cannot be honest about where the virus started, actually they changed their minds when it blew up, how can we take their casualty numbers at face value? They lied about the numbers of dead at Tienanmen Sq, even the Chinese Red Cross said the real total was about 10x what the CCP claimed. Lets be honest unlike the CCP and start calling it the Wuhan virus.

The scientific community already give it a name SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19. For freaking sake this is a MEDICAL situation not POLITICAL situation. You could choose whatever wording you like,  call it Wuhan or Chinese only shows how stinking ugly political-fanatics could be. China haters be hate. Just for record, we didn't call Swineflu: America-Virus back then(src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_North_America).

 

China did most draconian measure it could do as soon as she can, totally pressed pause button for entire country, can you say that for anyone else? Now we're shedding tears for developed country, can you imagine if China hasn't locked herself 2 months and virus spread to ill-prepared developing country early on? The fact we don't have many pandemic(except Iran) in developing countries should be thanking China. 

[Logosone]

6 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

The scientific community already give it a name SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19. For freaking sake this is a MEDICAL situation not POLITICAL situation. You could choose whatever wording you like,  call it Wuhan or Chinese only shows how stinking ugly political-fanatics could be. China haters be hate. Just for record, we didn't call Swineflu: America-Virus back then(src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_North_America).

 

China did most draconian measure it could do as soon as she can, totally pressed pause button for entire country, can you say that for anyone else? Now we're shedding tears for developed country, can you imagine if China hasn't locked herself 2 months and virus spread to ill-prepared developing country early on? The fact we don't have many pandemic(except Iran) in developing countries should be thanking China. 

 

The 1918 flu epidemic should have been called the 'American flu', since it most likely originated in Kansas. The Americans got a free ride because of war time censorship, which did not apply in Spain where it was openly discussed. Hence it was called the Spanish flu, but it turned out it did not originate in Spain.

 

For all its draconian measures, the Chinese did try these to be fair, they were done too late. The lockdown of Wuhan came too late. We saw with the panedemic in Italy, which was caused by two Chinese tourists from Wuhan flying into Rome, that the virus has spread due to Chinese being able to enter other countries. But this is due also to the delayed response by European governments, not just China's delayed response. Almost all governments acted poorly in this crisis.

 

The German government too, in 2012 the Robert Koch Institute predicted the effects of a coronavirus pandemic. Angela Merkel had 8 years to prepare. She did nothing.

[generealty]

justin case - Could be because Northern Italy has the largest Chinese expat population in Europe with 320,000 currently living in that small region.

[Logosone]

18 minutes ago, generealty said:

justin case - Could be because Northern Italy has the largest Chinese expat population in Europe with 320,000 currently living in that small region.

France and the UK have a bigger expat population.

 

Yet they don't have the deaths of Italy. 

 

Rather than expats could be tourists are the bigger issue.

[holy cow cm]

27 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

The fact we don't have many pandemic(except Iran) in developing countries should be thanking China.

That is so laughable. Thanking? Not! Toot your horn and raise your flag somewhere else. This virus is a major China Government Oh No! Don't believe for one minute it was born in a wet market. Now what I do believe is that China should pay the world for all the suffering and losses. I think most countries have just had enough of China's rise and escalation everywhere and this in one good way as it will tank the Chinese economy and make a major move for foreign companies to reflag - relocate their business somewhere else.

[Enoon]

3 hours ago, Canuck1966 said:

Thailand's people are too immature and irresponsible to take it seriously.

This place will get absolutely hammered in the next few months

 

Ultimately the responsiblity lies with those who rule the minds of the people.

 

The State and it's partner the Sangha.

 

The people are what they made them.

 

From the outset of this event the State has (typically) lied, dissembled, and failed to take appropriate precautions.

 

Monks in temples nationwide, at the request of the state, will chant (on the 25th) the Rattanasoot.......to stave off the "plague".

 

You're disappointed because the people can do no better?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Enoon

[Orton Rd]

42 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

The scientific community already give it a name SARS-CoV-2 or COVID-19. For freaking sake this is a MEDICAL situation not POLITICAL situation. You could choose whatever wording you like,  call it Wuhan or Chinese only shows how stinking ugly political-fanatics could be. China haters be hate. Just for record, we didn't call Swineflu: America-Virus back then(src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_North_America).

 

China did most draconian measure it could do as soon as she can, totally pressed pause button for entire country, can you say that for anyone else? Now we're shedding tears for developed country, can you imagine if China hasn't locked herself 2 months and virus spread to ill-prepared developing country early on? The fact we don't have many pandemic(except Iran) in developing countries should be thanking China. 

It is political for the CCP they must as a matter of national pride distance themselves from being the home to this visus. There are 17 other viruses and infections named after places of origin but the Chinese cannot bear to take responsibility and have outrageously tied to blame the USA and even Italy. Some things need to be hated, lying communist parties who care more about face than honesty being one of them.

 

Here are 17 other diseases named after populations or places:

West Nile Virus
Named after the West Nile District of Uganda discovered in 1937.

Guinea Worm
Named by European explorers for the Guinea coast of West Africa in the 1600s.

Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever
Named after the mountain range spreading across western North America first recognized first in 1896 in Idaho.

Lyme Disease
Named after a large outbreak of the disease occurred in Lyme and Old Lyme, Connecticut in the 1970s.

Ross River Fever
Named after a mosquito found to cause the disease in the Ross River of Queensland, Australia by the 1960s. The first major outbreak occurred in 1928.

Omsk Hemorrhagic Fever
Named after its 1940s discovery in Omsk, Russia.

Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever
Named in 1976 for the Ebola River in Zaire located in central Africa.

Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS)
Also known as “camel flu,” MERS was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012 and all cases are linked to those who traveled to the Middle Eastern peninsula.

Valley Fever
Valley Fever earned its nickname from a 1930s outbreak San Joaquin Valley of California, though its first case came from Argentina.

Marburg Virus Disease
Named after Marburg, Germany in 1967.

Norovirus
Named after Norwalk, Ohio after an outbreak in 1968.

Zika Fever
First discovered in 1947 and named after the Zika Forest in Uganda.

Japanese Encephalitis
Named after its first case in Japan in 1871.

German Measles
Named after the German doctors who first described it in the 18th century. The disease is also sometimes referred to as “Rubella.”

Spanish Flu
While the true origins of the Spanish Flu remain unknown, the disease earned its name after Spain began to report deaths from the flu in its newspapers.

Lassa Fever
Named after the being found in Lassa, Nigeria in 1969.

Legionnaire’s Disease
Named in 1976 following an outbreak of people contracting the lung infection after attending an American Legion convention in Philadelphia.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Phoenix Rising]

22 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Say all you want about your country China and how good it is, but the world is not buying it.. Your government made this virus and is never telling the truth face value. For all we know your government let this virus out on purpose and was set up to control it already. China would be better off to just close up and only deal with itself.

As you provide no evidence whatsoever for your preposterous claim yours is just another troll post. 

[Mavideol]

was wondering what they are doing with the death, if buried or burned....buried would create more risk of infections

[Opl]

8 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

As you provide no evidence whatsoever for your preposterous claim yours is just another troll post. 

yellow peril virus is more contagious, symptoms are obvious, no treatment 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Opl

[rosst]

3 hours ago, Coremouse said:

Conspiracists nonsense. My all family and friends in China(spread from Xinjiang to Hainan to Hebei to Harbin) all reporting well and no casualties, yes China is a developing relatively low income country with a lot of short comings, but that doesn't mean we live in grim dystopian. Chinese life are no big different from rest of the world.

 

China did the most draconian countermeasure no other country ever tried, that's why situation in China could fully recover in such short time. Lots of collateral damage but everyday life normal right now. 

 

Also bear in mind China population(1.4 billion, source wiki) are 24 folds of that Italy, that means the severity is more than 24 times grave in Italy than China - time for solidarity, begone all conspiracists nonsense.

 

If you're going to criticize numbers, what's better than an US of A with insufficient test swab and don't test patients unless they meet ridiculous criteria(src: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-washington-failed-to-build-a-robust-coronavirus-testing-system-11584552147, https://www.texastribune.org/2020/03/18/coronavirus-testing-Texas/, https://abcnews.go.com/Health/doctors-covid-19-tests-administered-due-mask-shortage/story?id=69625882, etc.)? And started an intriguing army operation fly test swabs from Italy to US for US use(src:https://www.foxnews.com/us/air-force-flew-500000-coronavirus-test-kits, https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/03/us-air-force-flew-half-million-coronavirus-test-kits-italy-tennessee/163879/)?

Pretty much in line with my thinking plus I would suggest that the medication freely available at no cost and the HUGE numbers of medical professionals flown in from all over the country helped to stop it and the discipline to do as they were told. 

[Mavideol]

I heard the Chinese were there to help reduce the death toll and containing the infection from spreading, same as they did in their own country, if so, why numbers keep climbing

[holy cow cm]

6 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

As you provide no evidence whatsoever for your preposterous claim yours is just another troll post. 

Sorry Mr. or Mrs. ashes. China cannot prove it as well and has a history of telling BS, and so it is not preposterous at all to equate it to the lab in Wuhan. Just like China built islands in the sea and said these were not going to be used for military purposes. True and utter fabricated lies. 

[Opl]

14 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I heard the Chinese were there to help reduce the death toll and containing the infection from spreading, same as they did in their own country, if so, why numbers keep climbing

people who died yesterday were probably infected over 4 to 6 weeks ago, expectations are that numbers will still increase the next 2 weeks or so...then decline if the lockdown effectively slows the spreading  

Edited March 20, 2020 by Opl

[Coremouse]

38 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Say all you want about your country China and how good it is, but the world is not buying it.. Your government made this virus and is never telling the truth face value. For all we know your government let this virus out on purpose and was set up to control it already. China would be better off to just close up and only deal with itself.

"Your government made this virus" - Ignorant conspiracist spotted. 

Try argue with Nature Medecine or say China bought them. Heck. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm

Quote: "......is the product of natural evolution, according to findings published today in the journal Nature Medicine.

The analysis of public genome sequence data from SARS-CoV-2 and related viruses found no evidence that the virus was made in a laboratory or otherwise engineered.

"By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes," said Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research and corresponding author on the paper.

In addition to Andersen, authors on the paper, "The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2," include Robert F. Garry, of Tulane University; Edward Holmes, of the University of Sydney; Andrew Rambaut, of University of Edinburgh; W. Ian Lipkin, of Columbia University......"

[Orton Rd]

Jimmy Lai writting in the Washington post mentioned here

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-coronavirus-exposes-the-lie-at-the-heart-of-communist-china/

 

By showing that lying is at the heart of Chinese communism, and that there’s no cure for the system “except the collapse of the party,” Mr. Lai concludes that the coronavirus “may prove as revolutionary as any event in China’s history.”

 

We can but hope

Edited March 20, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Orton Rd]

13 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I heard the Chinese were there to help reduce the death toll and containing the infection from spreading, same as they did in their own country, if so, why numbers keep climbing

who told you that the CCP outlets?

[Logosone]

15 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

I heard the Chinese were there to help reduce the death toll and containing the infection from spreading, same as they did in their own country, if so, why numbers keep climbing

 

They don't. The Chinese have just announced the case numbers have not gone up for the first time since December.

 

By all accounts the Chinese did a better job to contain than Italy.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Logosone

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed:

 

Italy passes China's coronavirus death toll, prepares to extend lockdown

[holy cow cm]

2 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

"Your government made this virus" - Ignorant conspiracist spotted. 

Sorry Charlie. Take your rant to someone else's ear. Ok let's put it this way. Perhaps your government was playing biological musical genomes and illiterately or purposely let it slip out of control. The fact is it came from that exact area with the only level 4 lab and the China Government covered it up until couldn't cover it up anymore. For all we know is that the China Government silenced the whistle blower doctor and he did not fall to the virus at all. Now that seems more likely. And just like Mavideol just posted, like they keep denying the persecution and of Uighurs. Many governments have biological labs, but this one is on China's hands and watch for basically messing up the world. Funny that we know China likes to creep everywhere they can under wee help you as friends, but this is ridiculous.