Asinine and unfair closings

[baansgr]

9 hours ago, greeneking said:

30-60 day suspension of business will be financial ruin for many....

Not having enough put by to pay the rent for a few months....people like that don't deserve to run a business...business as in business acumen

[FolkGuitar]

Minimizing social contact will minimize potential contamination and infection.

It really IS that simple.

 

The Original Poster said; " Closing massage parlors is stupid. 

These places could be models for "social distancing." You are in close contact with one person,"

With the possibility that the massage person has already contracted the virus as is contagious without being symptomatic for the next 10-14 days, in very close contact with several other people each of those 10-14 days, she alone could be responsible for infecting another 40-50 people, who, of course go on to infect hundreds more.

 

Closing massage parlors makes perfect sense, as does closing ALL non-essential businesses. All of them!

Restricting all non-essential travel, all non-essential social interaction, all non-essential inter-personal contact makes perfect sense.  No... I don't 'like' the idea of it. But then, I don't like the idea of this virus spreading further.

 

I don't like the idea of having to stay in my house for the next 3-4 weeks except for food runs to the markets. I don't like it at all. But I'll do it to help keep the virus from spreading.

It's a shame that it requires governmental intervention to see that others keep the virus from spreading, but obviously, it does.

[Vigilante]

8 hours ago, CGW said:

Any words of wisdom for the huge prison population in Thailand? ????

Either it's being kept very quiet or ? 

They will probably release them like Iran did

[Curt1591]

I remember when I was young and invincible. Unfortunately, it seems to be catching up to me! 

[AussieBob18]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

According to the latest news from there ( yes, I know false data is possible, if not probable ) they have had their first day where no new cases have been recorded/diagnosed.

I agree and have put my views on record.

 

[pookondee]

21 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, I have encountered many, based on my opinion, stupid rules. Most of the time, my opinion doesn´t count, though. I do not have the education, manpower or tools to assess the reason or the right or wrong regarding the rules. In that case you just have to trust the people in charge. In this case most will probably not have the education either, but they will have the manpower and the tools, which is 2 out of 3 I don´t have.

 

Just out of curiosity. Here we are discussing unfair closings. Why do you think and believe it´s stupid? I see it like this. First I put a value on the necessity of and open restaurant compared to and open bar as an example. In my book eating come out on top of drinking alcoholic beverages. To me that means the bars should be closed before the restaurants. On top of that, I also believe that closing unnecessary places where people can gather during a virus outbreak will have a bigger chance of minimizing the damage than leaving it open. Let me hear. Argue against that logic, please. What do you think, and what do you believe?

I agree. 

As far as the bars closing, Its akin to the religious holidays in Thailand when folks moan about the bars being closed for 1 day.

when we hear it said:

If you can't do without it for 1 day, then you have bigger personal issues to consider.

 

Well, this is a very good reason for those places to close for a while. 

Its all about doing anything and everything we can NOW, to minimize the spread.

 

If we do nothing and this virus really spreads and takes hold, then its not just our local areas, but ALL the worlds economies, financial systems..the lot..

will go into meltdown.

Its a scary scenario.

 

And as far as Thailand is concerned,

is even scarier, since (unlike the west) 

Thailand has NEVER had any sufficient welfare systems in place for 

ANY sector of Thai society.

 

I think we can all agree, 500 baht per month WONT cut it.

 

That means if there is long term shutdowns, and massive loss of jobs, then millions of Thai people will left on their own with ZERO income,

not even 300baht a day

 

You dont have to be an Oxford scholar to see how thats gonna work out.

 

Its probably why many people have been advising for some time, for westerners to get out of Asia. 

 

Yet we read on here some people are still trying to find ways around the travel restrictions and scrambling to get back into Thailand thinking it will somehow be better to "wait it out in Thailand" 

 

 

[Trujillo]

"You're going to be in for the shock of a lifetime over the next few months as society unravels and breaks down."

 

The unraveling and breakdown will come from the closings and irrational fear. 

 

The cure is much worse than the disease. 

 

The elderly are the most at risk, why not simply protect them? 

 

"The chance of someone with symptomatic Covid-19 dying varied by age, confirming other studies. For those aged 15 to 44, the fatality rate was 0.5%, though it might have been as low as 0.1% or as high as 1.3%. For people 45 to 64, the fatality rate was also 0.5%, with a possible low of 0.2% and a possible high of 1.1%. For those over 64, it was 2.7%, with a low and high estimate of 1.5% and 4.7%.

The chance of serious illness from coronavirus infection in younger people was so low, the scientists estimate a fatality rate of zero. (Under 9 years old, 0%; 10 to 19%, 0.2%)"

 

Again, can anyone actually say that the cure is not killing the patient? 

 

The reality is that this is a new flu.

Some people will get sick and some will die. In this case, older people and those with underlying medical conditions. Young children will be spared. This has happened throughout history.

But measures that will tank national economies are remarkably foolhardy.

 

Is saving a few extra lives worth creating misery and misfortune for many more millions of people for months or years to come?

 

 

[Matzzon]

23 minutes ago, pookondee said:

I agree. 

As far as the bars closing, Its akin to the religious holidays in Thailand when folks moan about the bars being closed for 1 day.

when we hear it said:

If you can't do without it for 1 day, then you have bigger personal issues to consider.

 

Well, this is a very good reason for those places to close for a while. 

Its all about doing anything and everything we can NOW, to minimize the spread.

 

If we do nothing and this virus really spreads and takes hold, then its not just our local areas, but ALL the worlds economies, financial systems..the lot..

will go into meltdown.

Its a scary scenario.

 

And as far as Thailand is concerned,

is even scarier, since (unlike the west) 

Thailand has NEVER had any sufficient welfare systems in place for 

ANY sector of Thai society.

 

I think we can all agree, 500 baht per month WONT cut it.

 

That means if there is long term shutdowns, and massive loss of jobs, then millions of Thai people will left on their own with ZERO income,

not even 300baht a day

 

You dont have to be an Oxford scholar to see how thats gonna work out.

 

Its probably why many people have been advising for some time, for westerners to get out of Asia. 

 

Yet we read on here some people are still trying to find ways around the travel restrictions and scrambling to get back into Thailand thinking it will somehow be better to "wait it out in Thailand" 

 

 

Exactly! Closing some is better than nothing, but what has to be done by each and every country right now is total lockdown.

[Trujillo]

This article is very well on point: 

A question of who we are

 

"The most important change in the way individuals are viewed in the 21st century is the shift from a presumption of resilience towards defining individuals by their vulnerability."

 

Exactly. Its not how tough you are that makes you valuable in today's society, but how weak you are. 

 

"Today, vulnerability is one of the defining features of personhood. As a result, the cultural script that now influences everyday life tends to call into question the capacity of people to deal with adverse experiences. Once vulnerability is seen to trump human resilience, people’s ability to deal with adversity can end up being compromised. More importantly, the current exaltation of vulnerability can inflate the sense of helplessness that many of us feel when confronted with emergencies."

[MrBrad]

Why do people wait until the government steps in and requires businesses to close?  As individuals we could impact the closure of those businesses by staying away, which we'd have to do anyway if the business was forced to close.  That's the point.  Avoid crowds and avoid some chance of passing along the virus.  This is fundamental: you don't want to be the one who infects others.

 

Being restricted to your home won't be so bad; in fact, it's most likely comfortable, much more comfortable than a hospital bed and a ventilator.

[canthai55]

 

For all the Sheeple cowering in their closets ...

 

Hiding in my Room

Safe Within My Womb

I Touch No One and No One Touches Me

Edited March 21, 2020 by canthai55

[Logosone]

Trujillo, voices of sanity like yours are now in a minority, as the overwhelming fear grabs the majority and you can see the whites in their eyes.

 

They hate you for your good sense and even more for being immune to the fear that befalls them.

 

Just like you can't win against stupidity you can't win against fear and panic. 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Logosone

[Trujillo]

Okay, here a song for you:
 

 

 

[chuang]

Need a massage, call for room service i am sure they come....

[RANGER55]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Yes, it is everywhere, but unfortunately here is what we are seeing in real time;

- Snowbirds from Canada  have been returning home. Many of them have refused to self isolate such that they present a risk to the general population.

- Almost all of the infections in parts of the USA and Canada have been sourced from travelers, specifically the EU, and Caribbean. 

- Some EU countries who have had fewer international travelers have had fewer infections.

- China is seeing the reintroduction of infection because of people coming back from the EU.

 

The international  suspension is just that, a temporary measure. Ideally, all international travelers would self isolate before and after traveling but many refuse. One need only look at TVF to see the mentality of some people. Or  look at the idiots congregating in the outside beer bars.

 

Domestic flights in  Canada & the USA  are quickly ramping down from 50% capacity to probably  25%. The  domestic travel is allowed because there is a need for some to travel. 

Some EU countries  have selfish, ignorant populations who refused to accept  the need for self isolation. Others have. Why should the responsible countries and people suffer because some only think of themselves.

 

After seeing the idiots partying and the crowded venues in the UK, why would anyone want to continue international travel with the UK? Same for  France and Italy. The Italians are getting it now.  Look at the jerks on spring break in Florida.  Many people who chose to get on an airplane to travel internationally as much as a month ago were aware of the crisis. They must accept responsibility for their own choices. Those of us who saw this coming in January and acted accordingly have a right to protect ourselves

As the old country and western song says. Turn out the lights the party is over. In the NW of Florida, the Sheriff’s warned the spring breakers to stay in small crowds and follow the safety warning. Well go figure, the Spring breakers said YEA Whatever.

 

So, the Sheriff’s closed down the beaches and spring break, Played the old country and western song, YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO HOME BUT YOU CAN’T STAY HERE. I believe the rest of Florida is following to include Miami Beach.

Which by the way I expect the IO here in Thailand, unfortunately will start playing for the ones doing the border runs to stay in country.

[RANGER55]

5 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, I have encountered many, based on my opinion, stupid rules. Most of the time, my opinion doesn´t count, though. I do not have the education, manpower or tools to assess the reason or the right or wrong regarding the rules. In that case you just have to trust the people in charge. In this case most will probably not have the education either, but they will have the manpower and the tools, which is 2 out of 3 I don´t have.

 

Just out of curiosity. Here we are discussing unfair closings. Why do you think and believe it´s stupid? I see it like this. First I put a value on the necessity of and open restaurant compared to and open bar as an example. In my book eating come out on top of drinking alcoholic beverages. To me that means the bars should be closed before the restaurants. On top of that, I also believe that closing unnecessary places where people can gather during a virus outbreak will have a bigger chance of minimizing the damage than leaving it open. Let me hear. Argue against that logic, please. What do you think, and what do you believe?

But But, the banks are getting to stay open! Why not my local girl giving me my weekly rub down!

[Matzzon]

34 minutes ago, RANGER55 said:

But But, the banks are getting to stay open! Why not my local girl giving me my weekly rub down!

You forgot to take her number. They never said, no house calls allowed. 

 

If there is a will, there is always a rub down.

[JimGant]

13 hours ago, CGW said:

That was my point, why hasn't it?

A static population. Except for the comings and goings of guards, you can view this as quarantine for a very large population. Not exactly like the turnover that takes place at a boxing match.

[CGW]

6 minutes ago, JimGant said:

A static population. Except for the comings and goings of guards, you can view this as quarantine for a very large population. Not exactly like the turnover that takes place at a boxing match.

I can't see it as being a form of quarantine in the majority of local jails in Thailand that have a high turnover, guard movements and atrocious living conditions, wonder if they have banned visitors?

[Chazar]

16 hours ago, glennb6 said:

Right of the People to alter or to abolish it

acting on scientific facts as  opposed to fartbook heresay and "beliefs"

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

Closing massage parlors makes perfect sense, as does closing ALL non-essential businesses. All of them!

An active step that *maybe* will prevent that exponential curve from climbing here in Chiang Mai. And it's the first step in the right direction to limit "social interaction," with outer limits of this action being "do nothing" or full blown quarantine. And why the latter is not a pragmatic option, see the below article:

Quote

 ...moderate social distancing will usually outperform the attempted quarantine, and extensive social distancing usually works best of all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

So, for Chiang Mai, with its low reported rate of infection, the current action against non essential establishments seems to be a practical first step. If this works, then, many businesses, that otherwise would have been told to shut down, will be saved, with all the economic good that entails. If not, and more "extensive social distancing" is required, so be it. As long as its the experts, not the politicians, in the decision loop, that's the best we can ask for.

[donmuang37]

Another uninformed ridiculous opinion - please ignore him!

[JimGant]

20 minutes ago, CGW said:

I can't see it as being a form of quarantine in the majority of local jails in Thailand that have a high turnover, guard movements and atrocious living conditions, wonder if they have banned visitors?

Actually, I was thinking of the penitentiarie where visitors communicated via phone, with the convict on the other side of plexiglas..... Anyway, using jails as examples of how, or how not, a virus spreads isn't very constructive.

[FolkGuitar]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

 

For all the Sheeple cowering in their closets ...

 

My thanks goes out to those keeping to their homes, not spreading the virus to others.

 

Canthai55, there is a difference between being concerned for the welfare of others and fear.

You seem to believe people stay home out of fear...

In the words of Anais Ninn; "We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are."

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

Trujillo, voices of sanity like yours are now in a minority, as the overwhelming fear grabs the majority and you can see the whites in their eyes.

 

 

You believe that your actions are sane. I believe your actions are selfish.

You obviously care nothing for others, and so just sit behind a tree and throw rocks at people who demonstrate social responsibility. It's really a shame to see.

 

[rebo]

9 hours ago, anto said:

I think i would prefer to just die .Give the ventilator to somebody who loves this life more than i ever did

Noble, noble! And so easily written ...!

[orang37]

8 minutes ago, JimGant said:

So, for Chiang Mai, with its low reported rate of infection, the current action against non essential establishments seems to be a practical first step.

 

"low reported rate of infection" do you believe this is anywhere near the actual rate ?

 

"non essential establishments" if you consider the possible number of exposures in terms of numbers of people interacting in public places, interaction in the malls.stores dwarfs the other venues ... but, people gotta shop. Gyms and massage places: makes sense because of relative intimacy of contact.

 

if/when there is a massive outbreak here, I would expect nothing short of martial law and militarily controlled food/basics distribution. btw: I don't expect that, but, would not rule that out as mere fantasy given the reality distortion field of Amazing T.

 

~o:37;

 

 

 

[CGW]

24 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Anyway, using jails as examples of how, or how not, a virus spreads isn't very constructive.

Really, do share your "constructive" examples? ????

[JimGant]

22 minutes ago, orang37 said:

"non essential establishments" if you consider the possible number of exposures in terms of numbers of people interacting in public places, interaction in the malls.stores dwarfs the other venues ..

Read the Washington Post article .. what they're doing here is a valid first step. But, yeah, the under reporting is probably flattening the exponential curve. So, just to be safe, close down all malls, supermarkets, restaurants, banks, lottery kiosks, pharmacies, street vendors, broom sales at intersections, etc. Prevent people from leaving their homes. Make emergency first responders sleep at their stations, etc. Can't be too safe -- just too ridiculous.

Edited March 21, 2020 by JimGant

[JimGant]

4 minutes ago, CGW said:

Really, do share your "constructive" examples?

Ah, you got me there. Please remind me again why we're interjecting prisons into this discussion?

[Aussieroaming]

All I can say is that country's closing borders, stopping entry of foreigners and closing down businesses isn't something these countries have done for giggles. This virus must have the potential to do far more than just kill the infirm or elderly. The real potential is a mutation to a more virilent strain before they can find an effective immunisation medium.