U.S. Navy does not rule out punishing captain who criticized coronavirus response

[Tug]

20 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Whos responsibility was that I wonder?

Have you ever been aboard one?i have lots of them and under them to (lots of fun with bad visibility)5000 guys and gals on less that 4 acres is tight you are packed pretty tight in berthing the racks are one on top of the another row after row that beeing said the crew were thanking a leader who put them first as a good leader does and took responsibility for it as a good leader does that’s one of the qualities needed in a captain the courage to make the hard calls come what may

[Nyezhov]

1 minute ago, Tug said:

Have you ever been aboard one?i have lots of them and under them to (lots of fun with bad visibility)5000 guys and gals on less that 4 acres is tight you are packed pretty tight in berthing the racks are one on top of the another row after row that beeing said the crew were thanking a leader who put them first as a good leader does and took responsibility for it as a good leader does that’s one of the qualities needed in a captain the courage to make the hard calls come what may

what does that mean please? Are you disputing that the Capt has the power to stop or modify shore leave? I cant tell.

 

Again, is military leadership a popularity contest?

[Tug]

21 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

what does that mean please? Are you disputing that the Capt has the power to stop or modify shore leave? I cant tell.

 

Again, is military leadership a popularity contest?

.......sigh........

[Crazy Alex]

13 hours ago, Tug said:

Have you ever been aboard one?i have lots of them and under them to (lots of fun with bad visibility)5000 guys and gals on less that 4 acres is tight you are packed pretty tight in berthing the racks are one on top of the another row after row that beeing said the crew were thanking a leader who put them first as a good leader does and took responsibility for it as a good leader does that’s one of the qualities needed in a captain the courage to make the hard calls come what may

So since you've been in the military, you understand the concept of the chain of command and proper channels, yes?
 

I think I'll go with military leaders on this one.

[JHolmesJr]

This captain needs to be made to walk the plank for letting crew go on shore 

in Da Nang....we all know what sailors do on shore leave.

[Tug]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

So since you've been in the military, you understand the concept of the chain of command and proper channels, yes?
 

I think I'll go with military leaders on this one.

Who’s to say he dident address it through the chain of command?as close as your boy trump has been to the military is to a military academy for incorrigible students he’s the one making the call 

[jimmybcool]

Article I read wasn't that the Navy was unhappy that he complained about the problem.  it was that he complained publicly outside the Navy.  This would provide information that perhaps the ship was not combat ready and would be an operational security breach.  Had he kept his requests and complaints within Navy channels he would still be in command.

 

 

[tropo]

On 4/2/2020 at 8:19 AM, BigBadGeordie said:

That's it, same old story, shoot the messenger.

Not at all. There were other ways for him to voice his concerns (like having an informal talk with his superior officer), but he broke the chain of command. 

[Opl]

“Our captain did what he could to protect us and our health,” a sailor on board the carrier told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“With them firing our [commanding officer] it feels like they are saying they don’t care about us,” the sailor added.

“We are really disappointed in how they handled it and we want our captain back.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/6773729/coronavirus-captain-crozier-navy/

 

"Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said Tuesday evening that he had not "had a chance" to read the four-page letter sent by the captain of an aircraft carrier with an outbreak of coronavirus."

https://www.newsweek.com/esper-says-he-hasnt-read-captains-plea-coronavirus-stricken-carrier-dismisses-evacuation-request-1495399

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Opl

[Crazy Alex]

1 hour ago, Tug said:

Who’s to say he dident address it through the chain of command?as close as your boy trump has been to the military is to a military academy for incorrigible students he’s the one making the call 

Actually, you're wrong. Again. The Navy took action. Trump has supported their decision. With that, I have two questions...

 

1) Should Trump listen to his military leaders and strongly consider their advice? Yes or no?

2) Do you have any evidence to suggest the Navy improperly relieved the Captain of his command? Yes or no?

[Crazy Alex]

58 minutes ago, Opl said:

“Our captain did what he could to protect us and our health,” a sailor on board the carrier told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“With them firing our [commanding officer] it feels like they are saying they don’t care about us,” the sailor added.

“We are really disappointed in how they handled it and we want our captain back.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/6773729/coronavirus-captain-crozier-navy/

 

"Secretary of Defense Mark Esper said Tuesday evening that he had not "had a chance" to read the four-page letter sent by the captain of an aircraft carrier with an outbreak of coronavirus."

https://www.newsweek.com/esper-says-he-hasnt-read-captains-plea-coronavirus-stricken-carrier-dismisses-evacuation-request-1495399

 

The Captain's subordinates don't get to decide. The captain's superiors do. End of story.

[JHolmesJr]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

“Our captain did what he could to protect us and our health,” a sailor on board the carrier told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“With them firing our [commanding officer] it feels like they are saying they don’t care about us,” the sailor added.

“We are really disappointed in how they handled it and we want our captain back.”

 

Not only can you have him back, you would probably be joining him if you didn't stay anonymous.

[tropo]

6 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

The Captain's subordinates don't get to decide. The captain's superiors do. End of story.

Yes, it's a machine. They are not paid to give their opinions, but to do a job. This reminds me of the Vindman brothers' removal from the White House after one brother gave his opinions on Trump at the impeachment trial.

[Opl]

"The U.S. Navy captain who was fired earlier this week over a letter raising alarms about the severity of an outbreak onboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt has the coronavirus, The New York Times reported Sunday, citing two former Naval Academy classmates close to the captain and his family. Capt. Brett Crozier reportedly began showing symptoms before he was relieved of his command on Thursday."

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/05/navy-captain-fired-over-coronavirus-warning-letter-tests-positive-report/23970351/

Edited April 6, 2020 by Opl

[JHolmesJr]

3 hours ago, Opl said:

"The U.S. Navy captain who was fired earlier this week over a letter raising alarms about the severity of an outbreak onboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt has the coronavirus, The New York Times reported Sunday, citing two former Naval Academy classmates close to the captain and his family. Capt. Brett Crozier reportedly began showing symptoms before he was relieved of his command on Thursday."

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2020/04/05/navy-captain-fired-over-coronavirus-warning-letter-tests-positive-report/23970351/

 

I went thinking straight your honour...I had a high fever and they fired me.

Cue the violins.

 

I wonder how the sailor  who wanted his captain "back" feels about it now.

Edited April 6, 2020 by JHolmesJr

[tropo]

6 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

I went thinking straight your honour...I had a high fever and they fired me.

Cue the violins.

 

I wonder how the sailor  who wanted his captain "back" feels about it now.

I reckon being discharged was too lenient. He should go to prison.

[rvaviator]

On 4/4/2020 at 11:08 AM, Logosone said:

This would be the perfect time for China to invade and occupy the USA.

 

What is China waiting for? It will never be more perfect than this.

555 ... Not sure China would want the bother ... ???? ...

[Why Me]

Methinks Crozier knew exactly what he was doing writing the memo and what it would lead to:

(a) It would light a fire in the Pentagon and the crew would finally get help.

(b) He would be fired.

 

He was fine with (b) if (a) happened and sailors were saved. He was also fine with (b) because looking up his chain of command all the way up to the C-in-C he wanted to throw up and get the 'ell back into civvies.

[Crazy Alex]

11 hours ago, tropo said:

Yes, it's a machine. They are not paid to give their opinions, but to do a job. This reminds me of the Vindman brothers' removal from the White House after one brother gave his opinions on Trump at the impeachment trial.

Good comparison. I love it because some of our posters here think the president is under some obligation to employee people that hate him. They don't understand the concept one of their best and brightest spoke about: "elections have consequences". Mr. Vindman should thank his lucky stars he wasn't court-martialed.

 

And in this case, they ignore how the chain of command works. Even funnier, they claim to know better than the Navy brass on how this affair should have been handled.

[Crazy Alex]

5 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Methinks Crozier knew exactly what he was doing writing the memo and what it would lead to:

(a) It would light a fire in the Pentagon and the crew would finally get help.

(b) He would be fired.

 

He was fine with (b) if (a) happened and sailors were saved. He was also fine with (b) because looking up his chain of command all the way up to the C-in-C he wanted to throw up and get the 'ell back into civvies.

Not a bad theory. Maybe he was about to retire anyway and figured he'd go out with a bang. I really don't have a lot against him. I'm sure he's a fine officer. And as you've highlighted, he certainly knew the consequences.

[William Osborne]

On 4/2/2020 at 7:53 AM, ezzra said:

The question that needed to be asked is how this virus find its way to ships on the high seas like warships

They stopped in Vietnam and sailors did what sailors do when they get on land.

[3NUMBAS]

plaster over the defects

[dananderson]

Every veteran I have spoken to fully supports the Captain of the USS Roosevelt.  Exactly how much common sense does one need to realize the fatality of this virus onboard a crowded vessel?  At this point the entire United States is like a virus filled cruise ship with Donald Trump as it's Captain.  

[Crazy Alex]

18 minutes ago, dananderson said:

Every veteran I have spoken to fully supports the Captain of the USS Roosevelt.  Exactly how much common sense does one need to realize the fatality of this virus onboard a crowded vessel?  At this point the entire United States is like a virus filled cruise ship with Donald Trump as it's Captain.  

What every veteran you've talked to doesn't matter. In fact, it only highlights why there are strict policies and a chain of command in place in the military and why the military doesn't let the inmates run the asylum. Thanks for your contribution in showing why.

 

PS: this veteran also supports the Captain of the USS Roosevelt. He also thinks the captain is subject to operating under military policy and UCMJ.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Crazy Alex

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

Methinks Crozier knew exactly what he was doing writing the memo and what it would lead to:

(a) It would light a fire in the Pentagon and the crew would finally get help.

(b) He would be fired.

 

He was fine with (b) if (a) happened and sailors were saved. He was also fine with (b) because looking up his chain of command all the way up to the C-in-C he wanted to throw up and get the 'ell back into civvies.

One would hope he knew what would happen. The other excuse would be he's a dumbass and it would better not to have such people in command of troops.

 

I doubt anything he said influenced (a).

 

You do realise that young, healthy sailors are very unlikely to succumb to the virus. The way you're talking, they were all getting ready to die.

[tropo]

49 minutes ago, dananderson said:

Every veteran I have spoken to fully supports the Captain of the USS Roosevelt.  Exactly how much common sense does one need to realize the fatality of this virus onboard a crowded vessel?  At this point the entire United States is like a virus filled cruise ship with Donald Trump as it's Captain.  

Reality check here! Let's not get carried away. It's not a cruise ship full of elderly retired people in their 80's and 90's. It a ship full of healthy young men that either would get no symptoms at all, or a bad cold at worst.

Edited April 6, 2020 by tropo

[Why Me]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

One would hope he knew what would happen. The other excuse would be he's a dumbass and it would better not to have such people in command of troops.

I doubt he was dumb. The chain of command's effed up with the nut at the top but even they wouldn't put a captain who hasn't proven himself in charge of a nuclear-powered carrier.

 

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I doubt anything he said influenced (a).

A captain's memo that appears in a national paper accusing the naval command of neglect? You bet it did.

 

1 hour ago, tropo said:

You do realise that young, healthy sailors are very unlikely to succumb to the virus. The way you're talking, they were all getting ready to die.

Now, you are being silly. A captain's not going to sit back and watch a virus rage through his 4000 men and women trusting they'll all come through unscathed because they passed boot camp.

 

My guess is that Crozier had got word that the brass was dallying because they were scared the bad press from an emergency evacuation of a carrier would upset Trump. And after some days of seeing the virus spread while being ignored he had had enough and to 'ell with the consequences.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Why Me

[dananderson]

Veterans have not forgotten the multiple deferments used by this commander in chief to evade service.  Make no mistake this was his decision.  Only those caught up in his cult of personality will try and defend this lack of leadership. This alone will cost him the support of the military and much more.   

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, Why Me said:

I doubt he was dumb. The chain of command's effed up with the nut at the top but even they wouldn't put a captain who hasn't proved himself in charge of a nuclear-powered carrier.

 

A captain's memo that appears in a national paper accusing the naval command of neglect? You bet it did.

 

Now, you are being silly. A captain's not going to sit back and watch a virus rage through his 4000 men and women trusting they'll all come through unscathed because they passed boot camp.

 

My guess is that Crozier had got word that the brass was dallying because they were scared the bad press from an emergency evacuation of a carrier would upset Trump. And after some days of seeing the virus spread while being ignored he had had enough and to 'ell with the consequences.

A lot of guesses, but where's your evidence that the captain influenced (a). You seem very convinced of that.

[Why Me]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

A lot of guesses, but where's your evidence that the captain influenced (a).

Come on! That's what Modly was whining about at his presser. That Crozier's memo had gotten into the media. Of course it shook the craven Navy brass from their this-might-upset-Trump funk.