UK cancels order for simple ventilators, needs more complex ones: source

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Absolutely, its much the same as the new drugs they are trying. Either that or carry on letting 1000's die with no new interventions that may work. 

Do you not think the time scale might be a little tight from drawing board, to mock up, to trails, to proof of design, to manufacturing?.....Whoops pandemic is over. 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Do you not think the time scale might be a little tight from drawing board, to mock up, to trails, to proof of design, to manufacturing?.....Whoops pandemic is over. 

No I don't, but I admire your optimism that the pandemic will be over before any new drugs or ventilator designs are discovered. Governments and scientists do not count on that chance luckily.

 

Here's another new one in a production of only 10 days https://archinect.com/news/article/150191162/dyson-designs-new-ventilator-for-covid-19-patients

Edited April 13, 2020 by Bkk Brian

[sungod]

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Agree with you. That is very silly.

Agreed, she is pretty dumb in fact!

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, Bramley said:

You forgot to put "illness" in quotation marks, following his miraculous resurrection.

As most on here will attest I do not rate Johnson very highly.

However even I do not believe his illness was fake.

[fruitman]

5 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

Perhaps Boris had an epiphany during his recent illness.

Was he also kept alive by a wiper motor for a car?

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Ambulances have been told not to respond to care homes. Why? They are prepared to let old people die as there is a severe shortage of PPE, beds, medicines, ventilators.........................The government had months to gear up for this pandemic; that is why the current situation can be summed up as bungling.

This makes no sence at all (ie fake news), given several recent examples showing elderly (90+) patients being clapped as they LEAVE hospital & I have even received an update from the OIC of the RH Chelsea explaining in great detail the work they're doing there and and the nearby Kensington and Chelsea hospital.

[sawadee1947]

8 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Give the Boris bashing a rest Seamus. One of the reasons he ended up in ICU was precisely the opposite of the twaddle being peddled by the 'still-don't-like-the-result' brigade.

 

Everyone else has seen through it.

No! If he would have looked to other countries he would have easily seen the demand for special ventilators. 

It's simply his mismanagement and inability to run the country in a proper way. Instead he is good in fathering around. ????

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Comparing mortality rates from a new disease while on a ventilator with the mortality rates of other diseases being treated on a ventilator does not reveal anything about the ventilators.

 

Different diseases, different outcomes.

Likewise when someone dies of other health issues but also has Corona they seem to be included in the 'Conona death' stats when that might not actually have been the cause.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Strange statement, treatments for many medical problems always have room for improvements, its an evolving science that does not stand still. With a new virus this is especially so. The expense of producing new designs should not be a factor in the possibility of saving more lives. A very good decision made by the government. 

Yes what a strange statement that was.

 

The government buys equipment by issuing specifications then selecting the product that meets the specification at the best price.

 

I think we need some transparency on how these orders are being placed, and why the secrecy around which supplier’s equipment is being rejected?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Absolutely, its much the same as the new drugs they are trying. Either that or carry on letting 1000's die with no new interventions that may work. 

You are equating off the shelf standardized medical equipment with new drugs?!

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Give the Boris bashing a rest Seamus. One of the reasons he ended up in ICU was precisely the opposite of the twaddle being peddled by the 'still-don't-like-the-result' brigade.

 

Everyone else has seen through it.

I don't think that is how it works. After several years of repeating baseless smears and lies about opposition leaders while willfully ignoring the mountains of evidence about how utterly unfit for public office Johnson is, and how repugnant a party the Nasty party is, you surely cannot surely expect the rest of the country to simply give up when, mere months after he wins the most traduced election in generations, the results of his failings comes brutally home?

[evadgib]

3 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

No! If he would have looked to other countries he would have easily seen the demand for special ventilators. 

It's simply his mismanagement and inability to run the country in a proper way. Instead he is good in fathering around. ????

How's the Taoisearch doing in comparison & coming to think of it who's turn is it to be Taoisearch this week?

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This makes no sence at all (ie fake news), given several recent examples showing elderly (90+) patients being clapped as they LEAVE hospital & I have even received an update from the OIC of the RH Chelsea explaining in great detail the work they're doing there and and the nearby Kensington and Chelsea hospital.

How does a 90+ person being seen leaving a hospital disprove the allegation that ambulance teams are not being sent to care homes?

[SunsetT]

5 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

Perhaps Boris had an epiphany during his recent illness.

No, but through treating Boris they now realise that they need more sophisticated ventilators that can treat  d u m b a r s e s,  compulsive liars, and d i c k h e a d s!

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Likewise when someone dies of other health issues but also has Corona they seem to be included in the 'Conona death' stats when that might not actually have been the cause.

I think we can trust doctors to attribute the cause of death.

[evadgib]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I don't think that is how it works. After several years of repeating baseless smears and lies about opposition leaders while willfully ignoring the mountains of evidence about how utterly unfit for public office Johnson is, and how repugnant a party the Nasty party is, you surely cannot surely expect the rest of the country to simply give up when, mere months after he wins the most traduced election in generations, the results of his failings comes brutally home?

I'm not biting, RR ???? 

 

(We can resume all that when this crisis is sorted!). 

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I'm not biting, RR ???? 

 

(We can resume all that when this crisis is sorted!). 

We genuinely cannot do that, I am afraid - what will happen is that the euphoria of the relaxation of the lockdown will allow the villains to escape without due process being carried out. As unpleasant as some may find it, all their failings need to be continuously documented and highlighted to maintain the public's awareness of the true reasons we are in this predicament.  

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yes what a strange statement that was.

 

The government buys equipment by issuing specifications then selecting the product that meets the specification at the best price.

 

I think we need some transparency on how these orders are being placed, and why the secrecy around which supplier’s equipment is being rejected?

Yes because there's plenty of time for public scrutiny now isn't there. 

[evadgib]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think we can trust doctors to attribute the cause of death.

Yes, but when faced with the likes of a recently deceased comedian as an example do they;

 

a) Attribute his demise to old age/natural causes, or

 

b  ) "    "                         complications resulting from a historic organ transplant, or

 

c ) Include him in their Corona stats simply because he had also tested positive?

[rbkk]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Yes, but when faced with the likes of a recently deceased comedian as an example do they;

 

a) Attribute his demise to old age/natural causes, or

 

b  ) "    "                         complications resulting from a historic organ transplant, or

 

c ) Include him in their Corona stats simply because he had also tested positive?

Answer C,,,,,,,,     Am I right?

Edited April 13, 2020 by rbkk

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes because there's plenty of time for public scrutiny now isn't there. 

Now is not the time to hide the truth.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Yes, but when faced with the likes of a recently deceased comedian as an example do they;

 

a) Attribute his demise to old age/natural causes, or

 

b  ) "    "                         complications resulting from a historic organ transplant, or

 

c ) Include him in their Corona stats simply because he had also tested positive?

I think they’ll use their professional judgment.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

I think first order was a panic order,

Of course it was, at the end of February Bojo said the UK was well prepared to deal with problem, 2 weeks later reality set in. Ordered anything to say he was doing something.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Now is not the time to hide the truth.

LOL, are they hiding the truth? Did anyone actually ask apart from you, any reporters, did you do any research? Perhaps they are busy making life saving decisions to answer your personal gripes. The specs needed for the ventilators are published and clear, why they reject a company product would probably be because it did not meet the specs but obviously you need to no more https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/23/carmakers-make-nhs-ventilators-coronavirus-uk-government-nissan-rolls-royce

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

LOL, are they hiding the truth? Did anyone actually ask apart from you, any reporters, did you do any research? Perhaps they are busy making life saving decisions to answer your personal gripes. The specs needed for the ventilators are published and clear, why they reject a company product would probably be because it did not meet the specs but obviously you need to no more https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/23/carmakers-make-nhs-ventilators-coronavirus-uk-government-nissan-rolls-royce

Thank you for your link Brian, from which I particularly liked this bit:

 

“Oxfordshire-based Penlon is the designer of the other ventilator, according to the Financial Times. Penlon’s product chief has previously warned that asking non-specialist manufacturers to make ventilators would be “unrealistic” and the company has said its own Nuffield 200 Anaesthetic Ventilator presented a “quick and simple” solution.”

 

But then you might expect I would given my very first post in this thread:

 

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Specifications and standards were already in place when this virus hit.

 

What kind of idiocy comes up with the idea of designing and producing something different?

 

It seems the kind of idiots who stand on their political platform of bleating about too many ‘Standards’ and ‘Regulations’, that’s what kind of idiocy.

 

 

 

 

[metisdead]

Posts content that was copy and pasted from some sites have been removed as unattributed content.  Please provide a valid link to the source of information when posting. 

 

A post using a radio talk show for content has been removed. 

[Bkk Brian]

49 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thank you for your link Brian, from which I particularly liked this bit:

 

“Oxfordshire-based Penlon is the designer of the other ventilator, according to the Financial Times. Penlon’s product chief has previously warned that asking non-specialist manufacturers to make ventilators would be “unrealistic” and the company has said its own Nuffield 200 Anaesthetic Ventilator presented a “quick and simple” solution.”

 

But then you might expect I would given my very first post in this thread:

 

 

 

mmm you bring up old posts you made that had nothing at all to do with the post I was replying to where you stated "now is not the time to hide the truth", well done Chomper, I'll leave you now to carry on with your deflection, I have no time for that.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Bkk Brian

[Rookiescot]

Dear Mr Dyson,

owing to events we will not be needing your overpriced half built ventilators. However we understand the get out clause in the contract means that you will still be substantially better off after the contract has been cancelled.

We will of course look forward to your annual donation to the Conservative party and hope to see you at many events.  

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Ambulances have been told not to respond to care homes. Why? They are prepared to let old people die as there is a severe shortage of PPE, beds, medicines, ventilators.........................The government had months to gear up for this pandemic; that is why the current situation can be summed up as bungling.

Credible links and real facts needed before so much accusation.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

mmm you bring up old posts you made that had nothing at all to do with the post I was replying to where you stated "now is not the time to hide the truth", well done Chomper, I'll leave you now to carry on with your deflection, I have no time for that.

Not quite.

 

You posted a link to an article in which is a quote from somebody with expert knowledge making the same point I made in my first post.

 

Don’t be sore, I even thanked you for it.