45 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Where did I blame new labour for the years of Tory Austerity, I think you have your posts mixed up.

Yes, sorry, mixup.

 

It is tbl who refuses to put any responsibility on the conservatives and keeps pointing to new labour.

On 4/18/2020 at 11:12 AM, vogie said:

Who are these people that are laughing at the UK, have you a link?

The rest of Europe who have PPE ? 

On 4/18/2020 at 8:21 AM, Mama Noodle said:

 

Likely in China, like everything else. 

Which Bojo sold them - and people still rate this guy lol 

On 4/18/2020 at 7:27 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Truly mind boggling. Where are the nursing unions on this tragic situation?

Busy slating the govt every time one of their staff needlessly dies - what’s your point ? 

Just google the following for today’s stunning Times article and you’ll get all your answers as to what happens when an incompetent clown waddles into power ....

 

Coronavirus: 38 days when Britain sleepwalked into disaster
 

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

The rest of Europe who have PPE ? 

Link

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

Busy slating the govt every time one of their staff needlessly dies - what’s your point ? 

Didn't you once say you liked Vince Cable?

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Didn't you once say you liked Vince Cable?

So? 

 

Your avatar and many of your posts indicate your fondness for the philandering buffoon. 

 

It's he, not Cable, who is Prime Minister and so ultimately responsible.

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

So? 

 

Your avatar and many of your posts indicate your fondness for the philandering buffoon. 

 

It's he, not Cable, who is Prime Minister and so ultimately responsible.

Again this subject is not about me, please for once be kind enough to stick to the topic in hand.

I find the way you attack other posters unpleasant, that is the reason I want no contact with you.

On 4/18/2020 at 12:05 PM, Scott Tracy said:

Full length...shortage... Get it, huh, huh?

Is it the patients without full length gowns or is it just me?

 

 Short length shrouds,  more cost effective.

  You know it makes sense ..

 

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Didn't you once say you liked Vince Cable?

No 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Again this subject is not about me, please for once be kind enough to stick to the topic in hand.

I find the way you attack other posters unpleasant, that is the reason I want no contact with you.

It was your insinuation, I think, that Cable is a clown whilst your poster boy Boris isn’t thus making it about your opinion - your deflection skills need working on. If you don’t know something just say so. 
 

So you think Boris is doing a good job with this ? Yes or No is fine 
 

Did you read the ‘38 days’ LINK above ? What is your take on it ...

Edited April 19, 20206 yr by Bruntoid

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Link

Edited April 19, 20206 yr by Bruntoid
Won’t let me edit it so can’t really give a reason !!

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Again this subject is not about me, please for once be kind enough to stick to the topic in hand.

Johnson is Prime Minister. Cable hasn't been in government for five years and isn't even an MP having stood down at the last election.

 

So what has Cable and Bruntoid's, or anyone else's, opinion of him got to do with the topic in hand? 

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I find the way you attack other posters unpleasant, that is the reason I want no contact with you.

I find the way you use comments like this to dodge the awkward questions highly amusing. 

Nice of turkey to come up good by offering ppe to uk.

11 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Busy slating the govt every time one of their staff needlessly dies - what’s your point ? 

Are you a nurse?

The unions were useless when I was working in a London hospital, and if the best they can do is "slating" still a waste of space, IMO. The only reason they survive is for the insurance and legal cover provided. For protecting nurses they were, in my experience, a waste of money.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-52343912

Coronavirus: 'Enormous strain' on protective kit for NHS - Williamson. 

 

The government hasn't even contacted the British companies offering to make PPE yet; but may do so within the next 24 hours!

 

Their ineptitude would be hilarious if health workers weren't dieing due to lack of proper PPE. 

 

But they are. 

 

Edited April 20, 20206 yr by 7by7

@thaibeachlovers,

 

If you are a nurse, or even if you worked in a hospital in some other capacity, you should know that nursing is a vocation and most nurses are dedicated professionals. 

 

Even so; from the Daily Mail on the 12th April :-

"Nurses are told by their union they can REFUSE to treat coronavirus patients if they do not have protective equipment - as one NHS nurse fights for life after looking after patients without a mask" 

9 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

It was your insinuation, I think, that Cable is a clown whilst your poster boy Boris isn’t thus making it about your opinion - your deflection skills need working on. If you don’t know something just say so. 
 

So you think Boris is doing a good job with this ? Yes or No is fine 
 

Did you read the ‘38 days’ LINK above ? What is your take on it ...

I made no such insinuation that Cable is a clown, although by his dismal performance in the last GE he hardly showed us what a genius he is. Remember his strategy of lets all wear 'blox to Brexit T shirts' definately a vote winner, democracy was never one of the Lib/Democrats strong values now was it.

 

Do I think Boris is doing a good job, can I simplify it for you, he is doing no worse than some of our european counterparts, France, Italy and Spain, they have an higher death rate than ourselves, so I wouldn't include those countries that are laughing at us, they may have PPE but they also have a higher death rate. But when you dislike someone, for whatever reason that may be, it is all too easy to constantly berate that person, so whatever you think of Boris and the Tories, can you imagine a Jeremy Corbyn or a Jo Swinson government tackling the dire problems that our present government are facing, it doesn't even bare thinking about. And finally it doesn't really matter what you and a few others think, in a democratic society we go with the majority, and the country is still behind the Government, just let's hope Boris is well enough to get back into the driving seat soon and start running the country again.

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Are you a nurse?

The unions were useless when I was working in a London hospital, and if the best they can do is "slating" still a waste of space, IMO. The only reason they survive is for the insurance and legal cover provided. For protecting nurses they were, in my experience, a waste of money.

 

Ultimately it is the government's responsibility to take care of the staff it employs. The Unions exist to promote the interests of their members, which they do to the best of their ability within the law. Unless you live on a different planet you should be aware that the Unions are not responsible for their members working conditions, they can only ARGUE THEIR CASE. The government EMPLOYS these workers. If the government refuses to treat their employees decently there is not much that the Unions can do.

So please no more utterly pointless deflections, it is the failure of the government to behave decently that we are talking about here. If you think that the Tories are so wonderful that it is OK for them to treat NHS staff as morgue fodder, argue your point, just don't hide from the truth.  

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

@thaibeachlovers,

 

If you are a nurse, or even if you worked in a hospital in some other capacity, you should know that nursing is a vocation and most nurses are dedicated professionals. 

 

Even so; from the Daily Mail on the 12th April :-

"Nurses are told by their union they can REFUSE to treat coronavirus patients if they do not have protective equipment - as one NHS nurse fights for life after looking after patients without a mask" 

I am indeed a nurse of decades long experience.

Nursing as a vocation ended when the, IMO, wrong decision was made to take training out of hospitals and put it in universities. However, managers exploit the dedication of nurses to pay them poorly and disregard them when it comes to decisions on care.

Even though we nurses actually looked after patients and not managers, when it came to making major decisions the managers never asked our opinion, which probably leads to hospitals being the disaster they are now.

 

Over the decades I worked as a nurse, conditions degraded so significantly that few locals want to do it any more, which has led to the reliance on nurses from poor countries such as India and the Philippines willing to travel to look after the sick in other countries.

 

In the end it became so bad I retired early.

 

BTW, some of the worst managers I had were nursing managers, and bullying by senior nurses is a significant problem in hospitals.

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

I made no such insinuation that Cable is a clown, although by his dismal performance in the last GE he hardly showed us what a genius he is. Remember his strategy of lets all wear 'blox to Brexit T shirts' definately a vote winner, democracy was never one of the Lib/Democrats strong values now was it.

 

Do I think Boris is doing a good job, can I simplify it for you, he is doing no worse than some of our european counterparts, France, Italy and Spain, they have an higher death rate than ourselves, so I wouldn't include those countries that are laughing at us, they may have PPE but they also have a higher death rate. But when you dislike someone, for whatever reason that may be, it is all too easy to constantly berate that person, so whatever you think of Boris and the Tories, can you imagine a Jeremy Corbyn or a Jo Swinson government tackling the dire problems that our present government are facing, it doesn't even bare thinking about. And finally it doesn't really matter what you and a few others think, in a democratic society we go with the majority, and the country is still behind the Government, just let's hope Boris is well enough to get back into the driving seat soon and start running the country again.

This is from the Times. Normally a cheerleader for the Conservative party.

 

https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

12 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Ultimately it is the government's responsibility to take care of the staff it employs. The Unions exist to promote the interests of their members, which they do to the best of their ability within the law. Unless you live on a different planet you should be aware that the Unions are not responsible for their members working conditions, they can only ARGUE THEIR CASE. The government EMPLOYS these workers. If the government refuses to treat their employees decently there is not much that the Unions can do.

So please no more utterly pointless deflections, it is the failure of the government to behave decently that we are talking about here. If you think that the Tories are so wonderful that it is OK for them to treat NHS staff as morgue fodder, argue your point, just don't hide from the truth.  

LOL. The government didn't employ me as a nurse in a London hospital. For a start I was employed as an agency nurse so employed by the agency.

When I decided to work full time in one hospital I was employed by the NHS. Are you implying that the ministry of health directly manages every hospital in the UK? 55555555

You don't seem to understand how hospitals work in the UK.

The problem with UK nursing unions was that they were too reluctant to use the only weapon they had which was striking. Tube drivers don't have good pay and conditions because their union was as useless as the RCN. They have good pay because they were prepared to go on strike to get it.

The only reason nurses pay went up in the early 2000s was because so few people wanted to work for the NHS.

Of course the unions can do something about it if they stop wringing their hands and do their job.

I think it's you that lives on a different planet.

 

I'm not supporting the Tories, but they are not doing a worse job than the New Labour shower did, and they were rubbish at hospital policies, IMO.

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

I made no such insinuation that Cable is a clown,

Then why did you bring him into the topic in the first place? 

 

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

Although by his dismal performance in the last GE he hardly showed us what a genius he is.

Dismal performance? Well he did get zero votes: but so did I because, like him, I didn't stand! 

 

Cable's LibDems successer in the constuency did win the seat. 

On 4/18/2020 at 8:25 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

UK garment manufacturers have the capability to produce these supplies - Guess What, the Government are not even talking to them:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/apr/16/government-ignores-uk-textiles-firms-desperate-to-make-ppe

The Tory government would never stoop so low as to ask their mates to help bail them out, they would rather leave that to Joe Public.

My son's mother in law is a seamstress and has started a fundraiser on facebook to buy material to make gowns for local care homes.

Surely the NHS could make use of the millions raised by the old guy, ignore the government.

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I am indeed a nurse of decades long experience......... 

And I agree with much of what you say in this post. 

 

However, mine was in direct response to you saying 

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The unions were useless when I was working in a London hospital, and if the best they can do is "slating" still a waste of space........ 

 

Quote

 

Edit:

No idea where the above qoute box came from, and I can't seem to delete it! 

Edited April 20, 20206 yr by 7by7

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

And I agree with much of what you say in this post. 

 

However, mine was in direct response to you saying 

 

Edit:

No idea where the above qoute box came from, and I can't seem to delete it! 

Thanks for that.

 

52 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Even so; from the Daily Mail on the 12th April :-

"Nurses are told by their union they can REFUSE to treat coronavirus patients if they do not have protective equipment - as one NHS nurse fights for life after looking after patients without a mask" 

Many of the nurses I worked with would continue to treat patients regardless of their own risk, so the union needs to buckle up, grow some and inform the government that nurses will refuse to work without PPE from a date far enough away to get production of PPE under way. That might focus the government's mind on the problem.

Making the stuff is not impossible, so I can only surmise that they are not yet considering nurses lives as important enough to carry out the necessary actions to get PPE manufacture under way.

 

I consider that Nurses are told by their union they can REFUSE to treat coronavirus patients if they do not have protective equipment is a cop out by the union as that is putting the onus on the individual nurse to go against everything they believe in, and despite what would be enormous pressure from management.

Mind you I expect no less from a nursing union- completely useless supporting individual nurses.

45 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

This is from the Times. Normally a cheerleader for the Conservative party.

 

https://archive.is/20200418182037/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-38-days-when-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

So are you saying that all the blame belongs to the Tory Party, the WHO didn't declare it an emergency untill the 30th of Jan, China was less than honest with the infection. As I said, some european contries have had a higher death rate than ourselves and some of those countries have a more severe lockdown precedure. It would seem some people are using this crisis to make political gain, would you like to see a Jeremy Corbyn led government in charge right now because that is what would have happened if the Tories had not won the GE. BTW, the covid-19 is the enemy and not the people trying to do something about it.

1 minute ago, vogie said:

the covid-19 is the enemy and not the people trying to do something about it.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

<snip>

Mind you I expect no less from a nursing union- completely useless supporting individual nurses.

Well the RCN supported Northern Irish nurses last year in their action, including striking, to achieve pay parity with their colleagues in the rest of the UK. 

 

However, even if the RCN, Unison and the other health workers unions were to call a strike, would they get much support from their members, let alone the general public? At this time of crisis, I very much doubt it.