Is China Really Responsible For The Virus?

[holy cow cm]

17 hours ago, BeltAndRoad said:

Hi i'm Australian and would like to know if the unit of measurement "heck of a darn" is more or less then "sh*t tins"?

It means more better in this case.

[MikeyIdea]

Ordinary Chinese, today, accept that the virus came from China, i.e., originated in China. They even feel a bit bad about it. They also accept that they spread it and they can even accept if you casually call it the Wuhan virus. They don't, however, feel they are responsible for all the deaths it has caused outside China. That they put down to weak foreign action. 

 

The problem is that the Chinese government is controlling what is published in relation to Corona in China and e.g., the bad initial management is already edited out. 1.5 billion Chinese will see things very differently in 10 years time.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by MikeyIdea

[GinBoy2]

10 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

Ordinary Chinese, today, accept that the virus came from China, i.e., originated in China. They even feel a bit bad about it. They also accept that they spread it and they can even accept if you casually call it the Wuhan virus. They don't, however, feel they are responsible for all the deaths it has caused outside China. That they put down to weak foreign action. 

 

The problem is that the Chinese government is controlling what is published in relation to Corona in China and e.g., the bad initial management is already edited out. 1.5 billion Chinese will see things very differently in 10 years time.

 

 

Like many things in a State which controls the narrative absolutely in 10 years time things will 'appear' very differently.

I have a friend who was part of the Tiananmen Square protests, thankfully he got asylum the US, but ask a teenager in China today about it, and it's been totally airbrushed out of history.

 

Beijing is very very good at this!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Like many things in a State which controls the narrative absolutely in 10 years time things will 'appear' very differently.

I have a friend who was part of the Tiananmen Square protests, thankfully he got asylum the US, but ask a teenager in China today about it, and it's been totally airbrushed out of history.

 

Beijing is very very good at this!

 This is rather different. In 10 years time things may 'appear' very differently in China. But for the rest of the world? I don't think so.

[GinBoy2]

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

 This is rather different. In 10 years time things may 'appear' very differently in China. But for the rest of the world? I don't think so.

Well thats kind of my point.

 

We all remember Tiananmen, see the pictures, the video's, but the Chinese State has very adeptly airbrushed it out of Chinese consciousness, and trust me they will do the same with this.

 

They are already twisting it to some bizarre story of the US military bringing it to China. Within a few years that, I guarantee you will be the accepted wisdom of the outbreak in the PRC 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well thats kind of my point.

 

We all remember Tiananmen, see the pictures, the video's, but the Chinese State has very adeptly airbrushed it out of Chinese consciousness, and trust me they will do the same with this.

 

They are already twisting it to some bizarre story of the US military bringing it to China. Within a few years that, I guarantee you will be the accepted wisdom of the outbreak in the PRC 

Yes. But my point is that the rest of the world doesn't share the same view of Tiananmen as China and will not have the same view of this virus, either.

[GinBoy2]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

Yes. But my point is that the rest of the world doesn't share the same view of Tiananmen as China and will not have the same view of this virus, either.

I think we are violently in agreement!

[MikeyIdea]

The Chinese government knows that other countries will have a different view. That is not that important to them. What's important is the internal view, the purpose is internal. They do the same with the Taiwan issue. Ask any Chinese and they will all say exactly the same thing: Everybody knows that Taiwan belongs to China. 

 

China had 4% of world trade during Sars, they have 16% or so today, what will they have in 10 years time? 20 %? 

 

20%... It will matter. 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by MikeyIdea

[ChouDoufu]

14 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well thats kind of my point.

 

We all remember Tiananmen, see the pictures, the video's, but the Chinese State has very adeptly airbrushed it out of Chinese consciousness, and trust me they will do the same with this.

 

They are already twisting it to some bizarre story of the US military bringing it to China. Within a few years that, I guarantee you will be the accepted wisdom of the outbreak in the PRC 

i asked some chinese today where the virus started, how was it caused.  most were aware of the official story.  the news broadcasts are saying it's of natural origin starting in or around wuhan, linked to the market, with studies ongoing.

 

one lady told me about the rumors on wechat, that the us military brought it to wuhan during the military world games last october.  this is essentially ordinary folks facebooking.  it's gained a little traction, just like other conspiracy theories in other social media.  the time frame is right, and they point out that the us has the biggest, baddest military the world has ever seen, but yet they barely won any medals, ranking 35th, behind namibia and tunisia, and belgium even!  so maybe they didn't send real soldiers (it was a bio-weapon), or the soldiers were all sick (accidental spread).

 

thing is, they ARE allowing the rumors to circulate.  there's an army of net nannies deployed to constantly scrub social media.  they could, if they wanted, remove these comments along with xi poohbear memes.  guess it serves a purpose to let people wonder a little bit....

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

The Chinese government knows that other countries will have a different view. That is not that important to them. What's important is the internal view, the purpose is internal. They do the same with the Taiwan issue. Ask any Chinese and they will all say exactly the same thing: Everybody knows that Taiwan belongs to China. 

 

China had 4% of world trade during Sars, they have 16% or so today, what will they have in 10 years time? 20 %? 

 

20%... It will matter. 

 

10%... yes...it will matter. 

[Logosone]

On 4/19/2020 at 10:31 AM, Nigel Garvie said:

The US haven't even signed up for the INTERNATIONAL criminal court. 

What deluded idiocy makes them think that just because they are Americans anybody else gives a tinkers cuss what they decide in their absurd kangaroo courts. We are not talking about a contract agreement here. 

US lawyers don't need to sign up for the International criminal court to sue China.

 

They can base their claims on the WHO constitution, which provides that a state that has breached it can be sued before the International Court of Justice.

 

The main argument is that China breached its duties under the WHO rules to inform member states promptly, because they first claimed human to human transmission was not happening.

 

Obviously the aim by the US law firms, there are several cases in different US states, is to embarass China so much that China approaches them to settle the claim, and the lawyers get a nice payout.

[MikeyIdea]

9 hours ago, nauseus said:

10%... yes...it will matter. 

My bad, 12.4% of world trade, 17% of world exports

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20170824-1?inheritRedirect=true

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

My bad, 12.4% of world trade, 17% of world exports

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20170824-1?inheritRedirect=true

You asked the question. I gave you my estimate for 10 years hence. Now you quote EU stats for 2016.  

[sukhumvitneon]

14 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i asked some chinese today where the virus started, how was it caused.  most were aware of the official story.  the news broadcasts are saying it's of natural origin starting in or around wuhan, linked to the market, with studies ongoing.

 

one lady told me about the rumors on wechat, that the us military brought it to wuhan during the military world games last october.  this is essentially ordinary folks facebooking.  it's gained a little traction, just like other conspiracy theories in other social media.  the time frame is right, and they point out that the us has the biggest, baddest military the world has ever seen, but yet they barely won any medals, ranking 35th, behind namibia and tunisia, and belgium even!  so maybe they didn't send real soldiers (it was a bio-weapon), or the soldiers were all sick (accidental spread).

 

thing is, they ARE allowing the rumors to circulate.  there's an army of net nannies deployed to constantly scrub social media.  they could, if they wanted, remove these comments along with xi poohbear memes.  guess it serves a purpose to let people wonder a little bit....

no one with half a brain believes the official prc line

[MikeyIdea]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

You asked the question. I gave you my estimate for 10 years hence. Now you quote EU stats for 2016.  

OK, so I misunderstood you, sorry for that. The EU stats I quoted were the latest ones I could find on the official EU website. 

[ChouDoufu]

15 hours ago, Logosone said:

US lawyers don't need to sign up for the International criminal court to sue China.

 

They can base their claims on the WHO constitution, which provides that a state that has breached it can be sued before the International Court of Justice.

 

The main argument is that China breached its duties under the WHO rules to inform member states promptly, because they first claimed human to human transmission was not happening.

 

Obviously the aim by the US law firms, there are several cases in different US states, is to embarass China so much that China approaches them to settle the claim, and the lawyers get a nice payout.

the lawyers will have fun with this, earn gargantuan fees, but in the end there will be a political, not a legal solution.

 

neither china nor who said there was NO human-human transmission.  they were using actual medical/scientific phrasing.  check the actual statements that were published.  you'll find phrases like "no clear evidence" or "not confirmed"  which is what professionals will say when they cannot provide sufficient evidence to confirm a hypothesis.

 

be careful when reading news accounts that claim otherwise.  oftentimes the reporter will misinterpret a statement, quote out of context, or change the wording that the original statement used.  sometimes by accident, other times as part of an agenda they are pushing. 

 

this is especially problematic when a reporter is writing about a scientific study, when they don't actually read the study, only part of the abstract, and don't fully understand what they're reading.

[ravip]

WHO says coronavirus came from an animal and was not made in a lab.

The available evidence indicates coronavirus originated in animals in China late last year and was not manipulated or produced in a laboratory as has been alleged, the World Health Organization said Tuesday in a news briefing in Geneva. 

"It is probable, likely, that the virus is of animal origin," WHO spokeswoman Fadela Chaib said.

The global health body's remarks follow confirmation from President Donald Trump last week that his administration is investigating whether coronavirus originated in a lab in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where the disease emerged. 

Speculation about how coronavirus may have escaped the Wuhan Institute of Virology has circulated among right-wing bloggers and conservative media pundits. 

Full article

More reading
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

Here

 

 

[DrTuner]

41 minutes ago, ravip said:

WHO says coronavirus came from an animal and was not made in a lab.

Yes, but like dogs, you can breed hybrids. Just get a few different viruses in bats and let 'em mingle.

[ravip]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Yes, but like dogs, you can breed hybrids. Just get a few different viruses in bats and let 'em mingle.

...and so it will go on for ever.

Thank God, gives some people something to argue about and spend their idle time. ????

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, ravip said:

snip

Speculation about how coronavirus may have escaped the Wuhan Institute of Virology has circulated among right-wing bloggers and conservative media pundits. 

Full article

More reading
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

Here

 

 

The moment you say "circulated among right-wing bloggers and conservative media pundits." you are politely pointing out that this speculation is total buffalo droppings, to which you could add 90% of 45s comments (He does tell the truth sometimes by accident of course). 

This article you link to is excellent. Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab.

 

The conspiracy theories just sound pathetically weak, and entirely lacking scientific rigour by comparison.

The whole DNA/RNA/ crispr field is vastly developed now and vastly complicated. Your sad media pundit hasn't a hope in hell of getting to grips with the detail.

 

Did the virus come from a wet market - probably

Is China the only country with these - I believe not

Should they all be closed down - arguably

Is China (The whole country)  to blame for a wet market accident- 

Well if Joe Bloggs makes a black hole in his garden shed in Georgia and destroys 1/4 of the planet, will everyone sue the US?