We Got Thieves Last Night On Our Property

[Wolfie]

pepper spray, baseball bat, taser/stun gun

You can pick all of those items up for not a lot of money, i gave my parents one of those hand held stun guns in case they ever have to deal with anyone, i wouldnt want a jolt off one of those. I think it cost about 3000baht and it works pretty well...

[mrt273nva]

if you dont like the look of broken glass , then plant some spiny / thorny bushes all the way around the inside of the perimeter wall to make it hard or impossible to get over.

plant it on the outside of the perimeter. it will make the place look nice and discourage people from walking through a bunch of thornes. the sad fact is that there isn't much you can do to stop someone that is determined to get inside, but you can deter opportunity criminals with a few simple techniques.

[larvidchr]

Agree it can be effective against single attackers... but IMO less so against multiple attackers and certainly less so against those who are high or drunk. Not to mention, it also may have a multiplying factor to how angry your attacker(s) are. Also, many folks misunderstand that one should be rather accurate with spray bursts (directly to the face and eyes if possible) and that YES, your attacker can still possibly grab you, shoot you, or knife you while being sprayed. They don't just all automatically drop to ground crying for their mommies while waiting for you to baseball bat them. That was my point.

And pepperspray might very well go off in ones own face when:

1: wind direction is not observed

2: fan blowing direction is not observed

3: in closed environments fumes will affect you as well

4: as with all weapons a more skilled and determined attacker (worse with multiple attackers) can disarm one and use the weapon on the defender. And he will be a lot more pissed off than before.

Just try and see how pepperspray works on yourself. You may find out that when not directly targeted in the eye and face may leave you with burning eyes, but still a lot of freedom of movement.

All these fantasies about weapons do not take into account that real life situations are not exactly like movies, and don't automatically make one a winner especially against multiple attackers, who very possibly can be more determined and skilled. Weapons require skills and experience.

Weapons can escalate situations easily, and there are far better forms of prevention.

Such as:

Know you environment, and make risk assessments, such as:

-Understand that Thailand has a burglary problem, including and especially violent burglaries, so don't live in the sticks away from other houses, as appealing as that might sound at first.

-don't show off your wealth, especially if you are farang, who generally is not part of a complex Thai peer group system. Don't build a huge house in an area where others have no huge houses, don't have the most expensive cars when everybody else around you can' afford them.

-just try not to stick out any more than you already do as a westerner, try to adapt

-don't give people a reason to hate you, don't be stupidly generous, don't be too stingy, try to become part of the community, learn the language, the customs.

-don't just assume that every Thai who smiles at you must be a good and honest person because he's Thai and Buddhist.

Should be common sense.

I am giving my advise to the OP from own professional experience, and ofcourse any kind of weapon is a last resource, but it is better than to have nothing.

Pepperspraycan of good quality is not affected by wind or fans it is under extreme high pressure and shoots out with very high speed and accuracy.

Secondary fumes is not a great issue considering the alternatives by not using the spray.

The can is made in such a way that it is almost impossible to point it at yourself, there is a special slot for the finger you use to fire the can, and as long as that finger points to the target you can not hit yourself.

If the target is hit correctly he is blinded and in severe discomfort, i have never seen anybody hit not instinctivly grabbing for their face and loose purpose of movment.

It is true that with ANY weapon you can ultimately be disarmed and the weapon can be turned on yourself , but defending your loved ones from a violent intruder in your own home leaves you with few options once you stand face to face. That is why you should try to avoid that scenario by having a hard to enter retreat in your home, and preferably a place where the creeps can only advance one at a time like through a doorway.

And I would certently not advise anybody to try and use pepperspray on themselfes that has got to be one of the most daft things i have heard for a while, unless you are on the jackass crew.

And as to evnt. repercussions from ultimately defending your loved ones and yourself as a last resort, well I would rather be jugded by 12 than carried by 6, if you get my drift.

Be safe.

[ColPyat]

And as to evnt. repercussions from ultimately defending your loved ones and yourself as a last resort, well I would rather be jugded by 12 than carried by 6, if you get my drift.

Be safe.

I have been several times hit by pepperspray when i was a kid. Once full in the face, which sort of immobilized me and made me throw up. Several times though it hit me on the chest, and that just made me teary eyed until i had the chance to wash out the residue.

That was professional stuff used by professionals - it was cops who used it on me.

My comment on self experimentation was anyhow a bit tongue in cheek for the ones who advocated that pepperspray is the ultimate weapon against intruders.

It may work against a single attacker, but multiple attackers might not be very impressed, especially when armed.

In Thailand you won't get judged by 12 amateurs, but by 1 judge. And the legal situation is rather clear regarding the use of excessive force, illegal guns (very difficult for the average foreigner to get a gun permit), etc.

There are better ways to avoid such situations than arming yourself or making a fortress out of your house.

[wolfmanjack]

Last time I checked pepper spray is a class one weapon in thailand.

[tijnebijn]

As usual I most agree with Colpyat(what is your real name by the way),reading many of his posts and his self made knowhow how to manage in thailife and thai ways.And think his recommendations are experience wise and everybody should take his 'wisdom'in consideration.The only thing about forting your ouse(which I have),personally I think is not a bad thing just for privacy,even many thais copat this in the neigbourhood,we did that for constantly intruding passersby(must say our plot is along the longside of our soi)which was very annoying,and feel much more pleasant now.We also have good relationships with our neigbours but do not go to there parties,my wife does not feel like more then i am,we do not drink alcohol(laokau)so there are not many intersts left.I just wanted this to go out,but in the near future i will donate some spare money to the local temple(still thinking how much is appropriate) cause i do believe we should alienate ourself to much even my wife is thai but she does not come herself from this local community which are very friendly by the way.I agree with colpyat differentwise and to avoid burglars,like he mentioned when they do come they will intimidate you with pepperspray in your hand or not.

[tijnebijn]

sorry for my english 'we should not alienate ourself to much'

[ColPyat]

As usual I most agree with Colpyat(what is your real name by the way),reading many of his posts and his self made knowhow how to manage in thailife and thai ways.And think his recommendations are experience wise and everybody should take his 'wisdom'in consideration.The only thing about forting your ouse(which I have),

With making a fortress i meant not just doing the usual, fence with wire and glass (that came with my house), but safe rooms and that sort of stuff straight out of a paranoid movie. Personally, if i would have to resort to those measures i would have a bit of a think if i actually should not move somewhere else, because that would take the joy out of my life. Everybody has different limits. Mine would be reached if my house would have to resemble a bunker more than a residence.

Anyhow, thanks.

Edited April 15, 2007 by ColPyat

[OlRedEyes]

I'd recommend an electric fence, rigged up to an alarm system, including lights. Add perimeter infrared sensors (they should be the dual beam kind, to filter out dogs etc. These are available with a coverage of up to 100m I think) rigged up to same alarm & lights. Sounds a lot, but not really expensive, considering the peace of mind. Used this setup in Jhb after being burgled on a virtual weekly basis. Stopped all problems. Dog was useless, unless you want to train it not to take meat from anyone.

[tijnebijn]

I'd recommend an electric fence, rigged up to an alarm system, including lights. Add perimeter infrared sensors (they should be the dual beam kind, to filter out dogs etc. These are available with a coverage of up to 100m I think) rigged up to same alarm & lights. Sounds a lot, but not really expensive, considering the peace of mind. Used this setup in Jhb after being burgled on a virtual weekly basis. Stopped all problems. Dog was useless, unless you want to train it not to take meat from anyone.

Well your recommendation is probably exactly what Colpyat meant with reconsidering to move out,cause then it would clearly be a resembling of a science fiction movie,but if you live in bangkok,you probably will need!

[Thai-Spy]

Perimeter defense is the best option. Keep them away from the wall with thorny bushes. Keep them from getting over the wall with spiked steel and a motion detection system linked to floodlights. Video security warning signs on the exterior make a good bluff as long as they are readable at night.

The last thing you want is to deal with is panicked intruders who are inside the wall with no obvious means of escape. In that case, go to a safe room with a cell phone and wait for the cops to come sort it out.

[65Craig]

I'm sure glass embedded concrete, barbed wire, spiked fences, large dogs, flood lights, motion detectors, video surveillance, bars on the windows, safe rooms in the house can help deter some intruders... But then again, what is the quality of life if you are resigned to do this. If I were forced to do this, something would be telling me that maybe it's time to find another place in Thailand to live. Also, while some of these may deter some of the smaller burglers, I'd have to think that it may also be telling the more experienced burglers that you really have something they may want (i.e. BIG MONEY, JEWELRY, etc.), as well as the locals thinking you are the Crazy Farang who doesn't trust us. While locking yourself in may make you feel a bit safer, it may also bring about negative consequences as well.

[WaiWai]

Perimeter defense is the best option. Keep them away from the wall with thorny bushes. Keep them from getting over the wall with spiked steel and a motion detection system linked to floodlights. Video security warning signs on the exterior make a good bluff as long as they are readable at night.

The last thing you want is to deal with is panicked intruders who are inside the wall with no obvious means of escape. In that case, go to a safe room with a cell phone and wait for the cops to come sort it out.

But there's a dilemma ... how long would you be waiting for the police ?

[Sakeopete]

Along with exterior security I recommend having steel doors and windows on the inside of the house. Just don't be cheap and get strong ones they can be made decorative also. Most burglars will case out a house before robbing it. If they see steel bars during the day when your doors and windows are open they will be deterred unless they know you keep large amounts of valuables or money in the house. Thieves tend to like soft targets so don't give them one. Everyone in our community uses this system and no one as far as I know have been robbed.

[Thai-Spy]

Perimeter defense is the best option. Keep them away from the wall with thorny bushes. Keep them from getting over the wall with spiked steel and a motion detection system linked to floodlights. Video security warning signs on the exterior make a good bluff as long as they are readable at night.

The last thing you want is to deal with is panicked intruders who are inside the wall with no obvious means of escape. In that case, go to a safe room with a cell phone and wait for the cops to come sort it out.

But there's a dilemma ... how long would you be waiting for the police ?

Not long at all if they know there's spot cash waiting for them.

[udonthani]

Hi, I have the same setup as you with garden walls and barb wire in 3 rows on the top, BUT my barb wire is isolated from ground and during nightime is it electrified by a good strong danish cattle fence. I do not know if you can get it here in Thailand, I bought mine in Denmark. It gives electrical shocks at 5000V every 2 seconds, this is "shocking" for everyone trying to enter illegal. the voltage is quite high, but there is no current behind, again try to grab it, and you will get your lifes surprise.

[wamberal]

I would be inclined to put the local police on a monthly retainer if I lived in an isolated environment.

[cdnvic]

I would be inclined to put the local police on a monthly retainer if I lived in an isolated environment.

Yes, if you reward them "per incident" you may actually wind up having more "emergencies" around holiday times.

[tartempion]

Along with exterior security I recommend having steel doors and windows on the inside of the house. snipped....

Improving perimeter defense is the way to go.

1) We will add a streetlight on the corner between wall and streetside

2) We have some type of shelter in a back corner and will add night light there

3) We will add some barb wire and spikes to the top of the wall

I did not want to live in a prison and still don't want to. Therefore the 50% of wired fence on the field side. Strange thing is they came via the wall, not the street side or fenced side, probably because it is darker there. ( item 1 will add light there) The good thing about my setup is that daytime our property can be seen street side & field side and we have a few neighbours 50 to 100m away, by moonshine all except the wall is fairly clear also.

I did not want to ligth the house at night, but we have back light on and have front lights on now also. I think adding spotlights with sensors, will light up when someone gets into the perimeter, possibly connected to some alarm (sound?) but with all the lighting planned right now I wonder if spotlights (unless connected to alarm system) is not going to be counter productive? Is having suddenly more light going to frigthen them away?

That will also make my wifes idea to call and wait for family invalid (her idea is to have them beat up and put away) Unless they continue and get get into the house, and why would they once they are detected?

I still wonder what they are after?

Not much sellable lays around the house, unless they walk away with bicycles, motorbikes or even car. Food? Valuables in the house? Ventilators, TV, music, PC? That's about it.

The money at hand will always be in our room.

Steel door? I have not built prison bars in or outside the windows, still could do, recommended??? I could add some steel rolling system inside front door, it's a large window area in fact, but then I will need to add bars to the windows as well and that was out of the question when I planned the house.

Electrifying the barb wire anly makes sence wall side, will leave street side and fence side as it is (or would be difficult fence side)

Further toughts are welcome.

Thanks.

Edited April 16, 2007 by tartempion

[OlRedEyes]

Good perimeter defence: Dig a trench inside wall, fill with various snakes, crocodiles, immigration officials. Or sharp spikes. Cover with cardboard. Camouflage with empty beer bottles.

[AmeriThai]

Is having suddenly more light going to frigthen them away?

Generally, yes. Thieves usually prefer sneaking in, and dark areas give the opportunty to do so without being seen. As you said, all areas are visible during the day and at night with moonlight, except the wall which is dark. And that's exactly the place the thief chose to enter.

I also think a hedge of thorny shrubs that can reach the height of the wall would also be a good deterrent in addition to lighting. The object isn't to make a fortress where you're confined, but rather making it more difficult so a would-be thief will deciide not to try in the first place. Adding spiles and eletrified wiring on top of the wall would be an added deterrent, but if the throny shrubs. You could put lights on top of the wall as well, or have them on the inside with motion detector sensors to light up the wall. If a ligh comes on and shines bright enough to reveal the thief, they're likely to give up trying.

I don't think your neighbors would have a problem over your modifications, especially if they already know someone climbed over the wall at your place. The neighbors might just decide to do the same as you.

The purpose of adding security is to keep honest people honest.

[ColPyat]

I still wonder what they are after?

Not much sellable lays around the house, unless they walk away with bicycles, motorbikes or even car. Food? Valuables in the house? Ventilators, TV, music, PC? That's about it.

The money at hand will always be in our room.

In a country where large sectors of society survive from less than 20 000 Baht a year in cash per family, where upcountry seasonal labor rates are still 100 to 150 Baht a day - all you have listed as your possessions make you a wealthy man.

[cdnvic]

The bonus of deterrence over weapons is that it gives the house a measure of protection when you aren't home too.

[Rhys]

U did the right thing.. you have to stick you gut instinct... Those guys will be out on the street...

Dogs are good..but do worry about physical action..

self defense does not work here.. LOCK and LOAD.. use flash bangs.. or blanks.. that will do the trickl

Cheers Mate..

[cdnvic]

LOCK and LOAD.. use flash bangs.. or blanks.. that will do the trickl

That's good advice if you want to wind up dead. If you're going to pull that mindless "lock & load" BS mentality you better be smart enough to load the gun.

[gaza1]

I lived in town for one year,burgled six times!

Turned out I was set up by a BG.

I have lived out of town for four years and never had a problem, but I guess the big wall and railings,Rohtwiler,CCTV,monitored alarm,Police box and nuclear weapons have helped.

Home security is something you should consider but don't get paranoid about it otherwise your quality of life will diminish.

Just take sensible precautions and be aware of your surroundings and don't p--- off the natives.

Gaz

[blizzard]

whatever you do dont dubble your trubbles by building another house. he should be paranoid and his quality of life has already gone downhill. maybe you should sell and get out while the thai economy is booming. sounds like he is out of his element.

[GuestHouse]

I'm curious about the advice your wife's family gave to be quiet. While we were never burgled ourselves in Thailand there were a number of occasions when burglars where spotted in the area and I can assure you all hel_l broke loose. All the neighbors where out screaming 'Kamoey'' all the neighbors lights came on and the neighborhood watch were out with flash lamps in one hand and a lump of timber in the other.

On other occasions neighbors came around with warnings that 'strangers' had been spotted in the area at night.

This to me reveals the first line of defense against thieves - YOUR NEIGHBOURS.

Get to know them and get involved in a neighborhood watch - Yes they do exist in Thailand.

As suggested, get to know your local police - They guy at the local police box! and make sure it is his number you are calling when you suspect burglars, not the wife's family!

You may also have a local security squad, volunteers who patrol the area at night. We made a small donation to buy baseball hats embroidered with the emblem of our local security squad, a small fee for a lot of good will mileage.

I'm not a fan of those huge walls. They make a great screen to hide a burglar's activities and they also cut you off from the best source of help when you need it, your local community.

Also check out the usual security advice available from your own national police force back home, for example Home Security Advice

As for guns. My old English master used to tell a story how during WWII he once emptied his hand gun at a Japanese soldier standing less than 10 meters in front of him, and missed with every shot. - Be aware it really is not like in the movies. Bringing a gun into the house greatly increases the chances of you or a member of your family being shot, with your own gun.

Oh and remember, the bars and locks that keep burglars out, will also keep you in - Especially if you have a house fire.

So, fit smoke detectors, make sure that keys are to hand and easily used (Don't keep the key that saves you from fire hidden among dozens on a huge key chain) and consider keeping some means of breaking out of your house to hand.

[soundman]

I'm curious about the advice your wife's family gave to be quiet. While we were never burgled ourselves in Thailand there were a number of occasions when burglars where spotted in the area and I can assure you all hel_l broke loose. All the neighbors where out screaming 'Kamoey'' all the neighbors lights came on and the neighborhood watch were out with flash lamps in one hand and a lump of timber in the other.

On other occasions neighbors came around with warnings that 'strangers' had been spotted in the area at night.

This to me reveals the first line of defense against thieves - YOUR NEIGHBOURS.

Get to know them and get involved in a neighborhood watch - Yes they do exist in Thailand.

As suggested, get to know your local police - They guy at the local police box! and make sure it is his number you are calling when you suspect burglars, not the wife's family!

You may also have a local security squad, volunteers who patrol the area at night. We made a small donation to buy baseball hats embroidered with the emblem of our local security squad, a small fee for a lot of good will mileage.

I'm not a fan of those huge walls. They make a great screen to hide a burglar's activities and they also cut you off from the best source of help when you need it, your local community.

Also check out the usual security advice available from your own national police force back home, for example Home Security Advice

As for guns. My old English master used to tell a story how during WWII he once emptied his hand gun at a Japanese soldier standing less than 10 meters in front of him, and missed with every shot. - Be aware it really is not like in the movies. Bringing a gun into the house greatly increases the chances of you or a member of your family being shot, with your own gun.

Oh and remember, the bars and locks that keep burglars out, will also keep you in - Especially if you have a house fire.

So, fit smoke detectors, make sure that keys are to hand and easily used (Don't keep the key that saves you from fire hidden among dozens on a huge key chain) and consider keeping some means of breaking out of your house to hand.

Great post. Good advice..

Just a little sub-note about keeping guns... This is only advisable if one has extensive fire-arms training. People who are not trained & have a firearm in their hands, & are all panicky, jumpy & with the adrenaline going, will have less than a 10% chance of hitting a large target at a small distance.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[AmeriThai]

I'm curious about the advice your wife's family gave to be quiet. While we were never burgled ourselves in Thailand there were a number of occasions when burglars where spotted in the area and I can assure you all hel_l broke loose. All the neighbors where out screaming 'Kamoey'' all the neighbors lights came on and the neighborhood watch were out with flash lamps in one hand and a lump of timber in the other.

On other occasions neighbors came around with warnings that 'strangers' had been spotted in the area at night.

This to me reveals the first line of defense against thieves - YOUR NEIGHBOURS.

Get to know them and get involved in a neighborhood watch - Yes they do exist in Thailand.

As suggested, get to know your local police - They guy at the local police box! and make sure it is his number you are calling when you suspect burglars, not the wife's family!

You may also have a local security squad, volunteers who patrol the area at night. We made a small donation to buy baseball hats embroidered with the emblem of our local security squad, a small fee for a lot of good will mileage.

I'm not a fan of those huge walls. They make a great screen to hide a burglar's activities and they also cut you off from the best source of help when you need it, your local community.

Also check out the usual security advice available from your own national police force back home, for example Home Security Advice

As for guns. My old English master used to tell a story how during WWII he once emptied his hand gun at a Japanese soldier standing less than 10 meters in front of him, and missed with every shot. - Be aware it really is not like in the movies. Bringing a gun into the house greatly increases the chances of you or a member of your family being shot, with your own gun.

Oh and remember, the bars and locks that keep burglars out, will also keep you in - Especially if you have a house fire.

So, fit smoke detectors, make sure that keys are to hand and easily used (Don't keep the key that saves you from fire hidden among dozens on a huge key chain) and consider keeping some means of breaking out of your house to hand.

Good post. Having good relations with your neighbors is sensible, not only for watching out for each other and emergency assistance, but for a variety of other things as well, such as just having a fun time and making like more enjoyable.

I also agree that guns are not always the best option for protection against thieves. The problem, especially at night, is that it's too hard to easily identify who the intruder is. It could just as easily be a family member or neighbor trying to get in to visit. It's just too easy for things to go terribly wrong.

Personally, I'm all for strong lights with some on all night, and some with motion detection sensors, that can light the property up like daylight. Then you can at least see who's out there.

Security cameras are also a good measure, again to be able to see who's out there. A camera and strong light at the driveway gate can be helpful. Hook up a lighted intercom system at the gate, as well as a security monitor if there's a real concern about prowlers and thieves. Frankly, I think I'd be a bit hesitant to use a dummy security camera though., the problem being that if it fails to deter a prowler, you'll have nothing to view or record the incident.

One problem with eletronic systems, depending on where you live, iis if the power goes out, which can and does happen now and then.

Adding a couple of large watchdogs can be very helpful. They can be a good alarm system not only to alert the homeowner, but would-be prowlers and thieves as well. Training the animals is a good idea so they won't bark and howl all night every time another dog or cat or someone walks by but only if an intruder actualy attempts to enter.

I've known people with dogs that bark at anything and drives everyone nuts having to listen to them barking at nothing all night long. I don't blame the people for having the dogs, but a bit of training would be helpful for the peace of mind for everyone else who lives nearby. After a while the barking becomes just another irritating false alarm and neighbors tend to ignore it which might be a problem in the event of a real emergency.

There are all kinds of security measures a person can use to deter prowlers that are effective and non-lethal.

Edited April 16, 2007 by AmeriThai