Internet Forums

[marshbags]

The Nation Sat, April 14, 2007 : Last updated 8:57 am (Thai local time)

Internet forums often a fount of misinformation about Thai culture

Unless you've been vacationing in the middle of the Amazon forest, it's very unlikely that your ears are not by now full to bursting point with relentless reports on Thailand's delirious censorship campaign.

Even though I disagree with most of this rampant government-driven censorship, recent news has brought to my attention once again the way countless Westerners misunderstand Thailand and its people.

For the past couple of weeks the Internet has been flooded with Westerners (many of whom have never been to Thailand) dictating to Thais how they ought to live their lives, that they should stand up and fight for their rights following the grand example of the Western world. Though their intentions may be grand, they haven't come to the realisation that their notion of a perfect society comes from their own Western conditioning. Before you begin blatantly criticising something, it is wise to gain a little insight about your target first.

The Internet is the largest source of information there is, but unfortunately it is also the source of some of the most misleading information imaginable. Let's start with the most classic Western misunderstanding of Thailand - and that relates to the country's female population. The Internet is full of completely ludicrous one-sided reports about Thai women by Westerners who haven't the foggiest, and anyone who cares to search for some info on the country before arriving is going to be in for one nauseating surprise!

Let's start with the popular Web myth that "all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West". Sure, that may be true for a lot of folks, and good luck to them, but to put all Thai women in the same boat is absolute baloney. Beyond a doubt the majority of Thai women are as happy to live their lives here as they would be anywhere else and do not feel the need to be whisked off their feet by some hunky Western hero. Of course it doesn't take a degree in Thai Studies to understand the source and origins of such a misunderstanding.

Next myth to be exploded: "All Thai women are after a Western husband as the local guys are useless." Now what kind of crackpot generalisation is that? After living in Thailand for over a decade, I can confirm that much of the single male Westerner population coming here is not composed of four-star Romeos.

Then we have another popular myth bandied about by so-called expat experts that "all Thai women are after your money". Again, an absurd generalisation started by some bitter and vocal folks who were ripped off at some time in the past; whether they were partly to blame is a story for another day.

I hate to say it, but much of these gross negative misunderstandings about Thailand come from Western expats, who even though they have been living here for donkey's years, stay completely uninterested in their environs.

Competing only with barstools for the most common source of Mickey-Mouse presumptions about Thai women are Internet forums. Start a thread on most expat websites along the lines of "How come all Thai women love Western men so much?", and you are sure to be bombarded with comments from men with massive egos boasting to the truth of the myths above.

One of my favourite hobbies is to visit a popular drinking gaff and play myself off as a fresh-off-the-plane newbie who doesn't speak a word of Thai and is in search of some information on this new land. Of course, I usually meet loads of fair-minded foreigners who are somewhat knowledgeable about all things Thai, but it's also a certainty that I'll meet guys who sit there supping away on drinks all day, every day, spreading myths about Thailand to every tourist fresh off the boat.

This is devastating in a way, as most new visitors to any strange land are bound to suck up anything they are told by some foreigner who has been in their new country for a relatively longer period of time. Sure, some of what they are being told may be true, but much of it is pure generalisation and ego-comforting myth.

A retirement-aged teacher I worked with a few years ago and I were having a couple of drinks when a Grade 12 female student of his walked by. The teacher, a perpetually sweating man who likely had a few years on the girl's grandpa, said: "Steve, I'm going to tell you something you never knew about Thai girls before. When she looks at me, she sees hope, she sees a future." Of course, I had to bite my tongue to keep myself from replying, "Excuse me for breathing, but I think she just can't get over your resemblance to the Colonel Sanders statue outside the KFC!"

Sadly, many Westerners coming to Thailand fail to search out any decent information on the Thai mindset, system and culture, yet they constantly criticise everything around them. Many, including me, have grown tired of Westerners who come here and endlessly compare everything to the Great Civilisation of the West. They often believe the myth that "Thais love everything Western and particularly American". Well, if you take a careful look you will find that the new generation prefers everything Japanese and Korean these days. And while some complaints about double-pricing and visa difficulties are perfectly justified, when people spend their days complaining day in, day out, non-stop about absolutely everything, it makes a person wonder why they just don't pack their bags and go back to the glories of their heavenly hometowns.

In the Internet age and with a new generation of Thais becoming capable in the English language, a backlash is happening against some of the portrayals of Thailand coming from the West. Unlike in the past when it was only Thais living or studying abroad who interacted with Westerners and came to know some of the stereotypes out there, now a new generation of young locals are beginning to realise what many Westerners here and abroad are saying about them. As a Western blogger in Thailand, I know that due to a lot of pent-up anger over some of the above-mentioned myths flooding the Internet that I am going to be deluged by angry e-mails by some teens every time I dare to criticise their country in the slightest.

However, it is down to all of us on hearing or reading negative reports to sit back and ponder the truth of them before simply jumping on the bandwagon, wearing blinkers and believing every darned word somebody took a minute to type. Let us all hope that through time, insight and analysis, a bridge of understanding between people - Westerners and Thais and other cultures - will evolve. I would also like to see the Western world become more sensitive to foreign cultures before suddenly dictating the importance of their supposed values to the rest of the world.

Stephen Cleary

The Nation

SUPHAN BURI

Yet another quality article with many honest observations.

My only difference of opinion is regarding censorship and the fact that i think it is far better now than under the previous administration anddddddddddddddd.

I can actually empathise with the difficulties relating to censorship under the present political situation and the threats of disruption that would occur and get out of hand should total censorship be removed.

I also empathise totally regarding respect for Thai culture, especially within Thailand and more especially regarding the Royal Family who are rightly held in high esteem.

marshbags

Edited April 14, 2007 by marshbags

[PhilHarries]

Thanks for that marshbags, how many of us could read that article and not see within it at least a hint of a mirror?

[canuckamuck]

He’s has some valid points, but his arguments are a bit lazy. He list three myths about Thai women, using the words all Thai women.

"all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West".

"All Thai women are after a Western husband as the local guys are useless."

"all Thai women are after your money".

This is a bit of sensationalizing; I think there has to be a low percentage of posters who really believe all Thai women are alike. I certainly don’t believe this or make post like this.

Most posts or internet chatter have nothing at all to do with the average ladies who work all day in a factory, or office, or housewives, which most farangs have no interaction with.

The inaccurate generalizations are about those ladies who interact with foreigners, and who can deny that many bg’s have worked hard on their reputations (likely why they are off limits as a topic) But hey look who they are hanging around with, no 4 star Romeos as the blog suggested.

Still he is quite right about the image farangs present about a place they choose to visit. Most have fairly disgusting manners for a guest. Some are dumb enough to believe all are the same.

[WaiWai]

A retirement-aged teacher I worked with a few years ago and I were having a couple of drinks when a Grade 12 female student of his walked by. The teacher, a perpetually sweating man who likely had a few years on the girl's grandpa, said: "Steve, I'm going to tell you something you never knew about Thai girls before. When she looks at me, she sees hope, she sees a future." Of course, I had to bite my tongue to keep myself from replying, "Excuse me for breathing, but I think she just can't get over your resemblance to the Colonel Sanders statue outside the KFC!"

Agree he makes fair points, but some not very new, I think ?

I am interested in the way young Thais' outlook must indeed be changing, with vastly more exposure to, & interaction with, other cultures, including, as the writer points out, the misconceptions about their own.

[LivinLOS]

So he starts on about a freedom of speach issue, censorship, and 'westerners' difficulty with that being used for political ends.. And then rambles on about miss information online..

I dont dissagree with some of his points on the latter but he didnt connect the dots. What has forums about BG's got to do with blocking political discussion unfavourable to an unelected junta ???

[qwertz]

This thread harks me back to an earlier observation that I hear so many hard luck stories from cynics and emotionally bruised people when I visit LOS. Nowadays, instead of wondering how they got that way, I examine how much knowledge they've gained during their time there and find it's usually very limited and confined to their favourite expat bars. Those over here who have the most to say are usually the ones just back from their first 3 weeks holiday there and they think they know it all.

Edited April 14, 2007 by qwertz

[mr_hippo]

"all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West". Surely he means 'emigrate'

[qwertz]

"all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West". Surely he means 'emigrate'

I think it depends on whether you're here or there, mr. hippo.

[pumpuiman]

His sweeping generalizations about ex-pats and web forums place him in the same category as those he criticizes.

Perhaps it's his holier than thou trips to local barstools that are the problem.

The robbing of basic human rights is a real problem in the current climate.

The ramblings of drunken tourists and ex-pats is not.

His letter only seems to be patting himself on the back for being soooo much more savvy than everyone else.

A ridiculous generalization that only serves to hurt a group of people already suffering undue criticism from the present government.

Yes there are idiots out there, but the majority of forum members are ex-pats with a intimate and respectful knowledge of Thai culture.

I can think of one forum geared to the Pattaya sex trade that might relate to his concerns, but most forums I have visited and certainly Thaivisa, are full of knowledgeable and respectful people.

His ramblings carry no weight and in my opinion are ridiculous.

Eric

[mr_hippo]

"all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West". Surely he means 'emigrate'

I think it depends on whether you're here or there, mr. hippo.

No

Emigrate - to leave one country and settle in another "Lek emigrated from Thailand to the UK"

[A_Traveller]

"all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West". Surely he means 'emigrate'

I think it depends on whether you're here or there, mr. hippo.

No

Emigrate - to leave one country and settle in another "Lek emigrated from Thailand to the UK"

But Lek immigrates to the UK from Thailand

Regards

[Ijustwannateach]

There is a community of barstool experts that gets things "wrong" the same way that the opening article points out, who think they know and have discovered the "real" Thailand based on their experiences of Thais in the bars- and beyond them a community of farang ghetto experts who fret about the price of imported groceries and the cost of airplane flights, and who have their own mistaken take on Thai society which derives from their contact with the richer, English-speaking, farang-socialising part of Bangkok society. They probably think they have discovered the "real" Thailand, too. It's like the old story about the group of blind men who can't agree what an elephant looks like because they all have grabbed a different part.

I think that for most of the 65M Thais, foreigners are not a part of their daily experience and we are not relevant to them at all- nor, perhaps, are they to us.

"S"

[pumpuiman]

Seems my "holier than thou" comment made some sense.

Have a look at his homepage.

Holy Roller

[pumpuiman]

Stephens views on "If I was a terrorist" from his blog.

The general idea would be to announce one bomb going off, and then dispatch about a half-dozen independent teams into the city on that day. "Independent" meaning that they have no contact with each other, or even have any idea how many other teams are in the city. Each team would be given a specific target and a unique time for detonation. However, I would only want one bomb to go off in that city. That way, no-one can ever be sure how many teams I had in there. So, if one team sets off their bomb, none of the other teams will. This requires some form of communication, which is not allowed since each team must be completely independent. So, they would also be given a small, portable TV. Any bomb going off in a large city will hit local news within two hours (more like ten minutes, but say a couple hours to be on the safe side). The procedure is simple: proceed to your target and watch TV. If you see a bomb on the news, return to base; otherwise, if your target time arrives and there is no bomb on the news, assume all previous teams have been captured and detonate yours. Simple.

Well, that's how I would organize attacks if I was a terrorist.

One final note: remember, the objective is to strike terror. Currently, it seems the terrorists only attack the day-to-day businessmen. Planes into office buildings; bombs on subway trains. If all you ever attack is subways, then that makes the defense a lot easier. I would branch out to a lot of other targets, while also keeping the classic subway/office building/restaraunt repertoire. I'm talking schools, supermarkets, day cares, nursing homes, churches, rock concerts and playgrounds. If you're going to play dirty, play dirty.

And he's worried about forums degrading women?

His forum promotes terrorist ideas!!

This guy is a nut.

[cdnvic]

Seems my "holier than thou" comment made some sense.

Have a look at his homepage.

Holy Roller

Why the b@stard is a missionary! How dare he dedicate his life to trying to help others?

Look, regardless of what the guy does for a living he made some valid points, and missed on a few others, and tended to generalize people a bit too much.

Just like myself and the other 99% of the posters here do everyday.

Get over it.

[pumpuiman]

Seems my "holier than thou" comment made some sense.

Have a look at his homepage.

Holy Roller

Why the b@stard is a missionary! How dare he dedicate his life to trying to help others?

Look, regardless of what the guy does for a living he made some valid points, and missed on a few others, and tended to generalize people a bit too much.

Just like myself and the other 99% of the posters here do everyday.

Get over it.

The guy is a nut bag....not a saint.

If we were all to just "get over it" there would be no discussion would there?

We could just read and accept your opinions and be on our way.......no fun in that!!

Edited April 14, 2007 by pumpuiman

[Ajarn]

His sweeping generalizations about ex-pats and web forums place him in the same category as those he criticizes.

Perhaps it's his holier than thou trips to local barstools that are the problem.

The robbing of basic human rights is a real problem in the current climate.

The ramblings of drunken tourists and ex-pats is not.

His letter only seems to be patting himself on the back for being soooo much more savvy than everyone else.

A ridiculous generalization that only serves to hurt a group of people already suffering undue criticism from the present government.

Yes there are idiots out there, but the majority of forum members are ex-pats with a intimate and respectful knowledge of Thai culture.

I can think of one forum geared to the Pattaya sex trade that might relate to his concerns, but most forums I have visited and certainly Thaivisa, are full of knowledgeable and respectful people.

His ramblings carry no weight and in my opinion are ridiculous.

Eric

I Fully agree, 100%

[Mid]

"all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West"

nothing could be further from the truth .........................................