WHO does a 180, now lauds Swedish model

[MikeyIdea]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO the point he was making is that as he has BOTH a young child and an old person to look after, he can't let the child become infected as she would cause the elder to be come infected. IMO the child is not at risk ( unless has underlying medical problems ), but the elder definitely is.

Yes. The problem is that you can't really protect the elderly in Sweden the way the covid-19 response is implemented. Put them in care homes and they risk dying, let them be treated at home and they risk dying, in both cases because health care workers don't have proper protective equipment and they're not moved to hospital to protect the curve. Take care of them yourself and they are at risk because you can't protect yourself fully in a society where so many people don't care and you are forced by law to send your children to school where there is no social distancing. The kids must take public transportation to school and again, there's no social distancing there either. 

 

School... Children in Sweden have a duty to go to school, not a duty to learn. Principals have threatened parents with handing over cases to the social authorities if they don't send their children to school. Then you have investigations if you are a suitable parent and their opinion always win, even more so if it is necessary to protect the system. 

 

Media found out that 10 teachers in a school had tested positive for covid-19 and the school had to close for a while. Parents of children going to the school wanted to be tested. What did the health authorities do? Oh sh*t, we got to stop that... No tests. Door closed. 

 

Work... Large companies like Volvo arrange work from home of course but quite a few smaller companies don't care. Many people must take public transportation to work, queue in the lunch restaurant to get food. Social distancing? Not really. 

 

Sweden has relatively few multi generation homes, imagine these problems, with less restrictions, in southern Europe where it is much more common. 

 

Another thought: Minorities are much harder hit. Is it really because they don't read Swedish and don't bother to find out from someone who does? How much of a contributing factor is it that they have many more multi generation households and live more people in each apartment? 

 

It's difficult to protect risk groups in Sweden, the system simply doesn't support it well. Its easier the stricter the rules are. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by MikeyIdea

[yuyiinthesky]

There seem to be more and more seeing Sweden's Coronavirus Strategy as the better model for the world:

 

Quote

Sweden’s Coronavirus Strategy Will Soon Be the World’s

Herd Immunity Is the Only Realistic Option—The Question Is How to Get There Safely

 

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Whether or not they have openly embraced the Swedish approach, many other countries are now trying to emulate aspects of it. Both Denmark and Finland have reopened schools for young children. Germany is allowing small shops to reopen. Italy will soon reopen parks, and France has a plan to allow some nonessential businesses to reopen, including farmers’ markets and small museums, as well as schools and daycare centers. In the United States, which has by far the highest absolute number of reported COVID-19 deaths, several states are easing restrictions at the urging of President Donald Trump, who despite bashing the Swedish model, is pushing the country toward something very similar.

 

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Countries lifting restrictions should also learn from Sweden’s missteps when it comes to the elderly and immigrants: masks and other protective equipment should be made immediately available in nursing homes, and greater emphasis should be placed on protecting service-sector workers who are at higher risk because of age or infirmity. But the emphasis must be on helping at-risk people stay safe and out of harm’s way, not locking entire societies down.

 

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As the pain of national lockdowns grows intolerable and countries realize that managing—rather than defeating—the pandemic is the only realistic option, more and more of them will begin to open up. Smart social distancing to keep health-care systems from being overwhelmed, improved therapies for the afflicted, and better protections for at-risk groups can help reduce the human toll.

 

But at the end of the day, increased—and ultimately, herd—immunity may be the only viable defense against the disease, so long as vulnerable groups are protected along the way. Whatever marks Sweden deserves for managing the pandemic, other nations are beginning to see that it is ahead of the curve. 

 

Source: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/sweden/2020-05-12/swedens-coronavirus-strategy-will-soon-be-worlds

[UbonThani]

We need flu death figures to compare.

[chessman]

1 hour ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Whether or not they have openly embraced the Swedish approach, many other countries are now trying to emulate aspects of it. Both Denmark and Finland have reopened schools for young children. Germany is allowing small shops to reopen. Italy will soon reopen parks, and France has a plan to allow some nonessential businesses to reopen, including farmers’ markets and small museums, as well as schools and daycare centers. In the United States, which has by far the highest absolute number of reported COVID-19 deaths, several states are easing restrictions at the urging of President Donald Trump, who despite bashing the Swedish model, is pushing the country toward something very similar.

Kind of a ridiculous argument. Countries are not trying to emulate Sweden's approach when they start schools again. They are simply starting up schools again when they think it is safe to do so. 

 

The 2nd paragraph makes some good points though.

[yuyiinthesky]

On 5/8/2020 at 8:36 AM, cmarshall said:

That's what Sweden, Germany, Italy, the US, and all the other Western should have been doing, but failed utterly to do out of simple incompetence.   Had they done so no lockdown would have been necessary and there would have been no significant impact on the economy, much less would their healthcare facilities have been overwhelmed.

Sorry, this is nonsense, the healthcare facilities of Germany and Sweden have never been overwhelmed. And Italy's healthcare facilities are already overwhelmed whenever there is a severe seasonal flu.

[yuyiinthesky]

5 hours ago, UbonThani said:

We need flu death figures to compare.

Agreed, instead of looking at a Covid 19 counter like a hypnotized rabbit we should look at the counters of all the killers, influenza, TB, dengue, malaria, road accidents, suicides, so that we do not miss the big picture.

[MikeyIdea]

9 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Sorry, this is nonsense, the healthcare facilities of Germany and Sweden have never been overwhelmed. And Italy's healthcare facilities are already overwhelmed whenever there is a severe seasonal flu.

That Sweden's healtcare facilities have not been overwhelmed is, to use your own words, total nonsense. Swedish health authorities are under fire right now for not moving elderly who need hospital care to hospitals, to not overwhelm them. That's why deaths go down to under half every single weekend. Those who die in care homes are only reported on weekdays.

 

It is just politics of the ugliest kind. 

[nauseus]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:50 PM, steelepulse said:

According to this video by Dr Berg ( who puts out a lot of videos for monetary gain) 40% of the deaths in Sweden come from the Somali community which makes up .84% of the country.  Add in the additional deaths from the nursing homes, and all of a sudden it seems the IFR is quite low for the ordinary population that is out and about.

 

He does put in a lot of links that back up his videos in the section right below his videos.

 

 

All this agrees with what John Campbell has been saying in his VDO's for the last 2 months. Logical and makes good sense. Also, the reference to location and seasonal climate is interesting and something not discussed much since the first bad days in Europe.

Edited May 14, 2020 by nauseus

[MikeyIdea]

This is what I have said for quite sometime, I am glad that international media finally is reporting on it. It is a disgrace!  

Coronavirus: What's going wrong in Sweden's care homes?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Edited May 19, 2020 by MikeyIdea