6 hours ago, rupert the bear said:

here in hk we know all about big brother peering over the not so high fence.i find it amazing the flood of support for the chinese regime on this forum,its a pseudo fascist ultra nationalist regime.it threatens bullies and shakes down the countries in its way,as pointed out the  s china sea issue,theres a bunch more from the millions in gulags to what has happened here in hk and taiwan as for the reference to the opuium wars absurd.the PRC in late jan knowingly and willingly exported the virus to the world over chinese new year,internal flights were being cancelled or curtailled,we knew of the virus here in nov.some people befre that.reporters and drs as wella s private citizens were jailed and killed for letting the cat out of the bag,if u wish to support that go ahead its your right but it also comes with responsibility.

Why anyone would defend the CCP is beyond me. Too many people have become complacent in the West and are bored and full of hate for others who disagree with them. They unfortunately treat politicians and politics like they're their sports team and they have to defend and celebrate everything bad and good that they do. Very rare now will you see people arguing good ideas vs bad. It's all very tribal and primitive. 'This is my team and we hate your team' kind of mentality. 

 

I can't imagine what it must feel like to have had so many freedoms for so long only to have someone come along and try to take it all away. I feel terrible for HK, but they're strong and will keep fighting. The right to freedom of expression is so important. It's a basic human right to be able to stand up to bad ideas without persecution. Something I'll always be vocal about and never ever take for granted. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 20206 yr by rkidlad

6 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Why anyone would defend the CCP is beyond me. Too many people have become complacent in the West and are bored and full of hate for others who disagree with them. They unfortunately treat politicians and politics like they're their sports team and they have to defend and celebrate everything bad and good that they do. Very rare now will you see people arguing good ideas vs bad. It's all very tribal and primitive. 'This is my team and we hate your team' kind of mentality. 

 

I can't imagine what it must feel like to have had so many freedoms for so long only to have someone come along and try to take it all away. I feel terrible for HK, but they're strong and will keep fighting. The right to freedom of expression is so important. It's a basic human right to be able to stand up to bad ideas without persecution. Something I'll always be vocal about and never ever take for granted. 

 

 

Sounds like the US.

 

No one is defending ccp. Only the erroneous claims with no evidence that they made the virus in the lab and set it free. 

 

No one would believe anything coming from the trump admin, they are proven gold medallists year after yesr for lying.

Just now, Sujo said:

Sounds like the US.

 

No one is defending ccp. Only the erroneous claims with no evidence that they made the virus in the lab and set it free. 

 

No one would believe anything coming from the trump admin, they are proven gold medallists year after yesr for lying.

Again, people are going to need to be able to have two separate thoughts in their head at the same time. My post is advocating for freedom of expression. Something China hates and will never allow. My opinion of the CCP is based off what I can see them doing in China and Hong Kong. I'm not talking about Trump. My opinion of China has nothing to do with what Donald Trump thinks or says.

 

I wish people would stop conflating a distain of the CCP with an admiration for Trump. Let's be decent and give people the benefit of the doubt unless they prove otherwise. 

18 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Again, people are going to need to be able to have two separate thoughts in their head at the same time. My post is advocating for freedom of expression. Something China hates and will never allow. My opinion of the CCP is based off what I can see them doing in China and Hong Kong. I'm not talking about Trump. My opinion of China has nothing to do with what Donald Trump thinks or says.

 

I wish people would stop conflating a distain of the CCP with an admiration for Trump. Let's be decent and give people the benefit of the doubt unless they prove otherwise. 

There is one thing I can't understand here and that is that folks are slagging off China, for what they have always been, and for how they have always operated, and people like me who were born just after the war know full well what they are like and they won't change – – so why are people going on about them and what they do and don't do?

 

Russia is similar and is totally different to the way we operate in the West, in fact there are many countries who do not operate the way that we in the West think they should, but we have to accept it because that's what they've always been.

 

Trying to change cultures and countries that have been set in their ways for centuries is a pointless exercise, so is slagging them off, in fact slagging them off for what they've always done.

 

I don't like the Chinese one bit, and don't you think that we have made a rod for our own backs, when we should have stood up against them when they started commandeering those islands in the South China Sea; or when they started developments in other countries which these other countries couldn't afford, so they would be eternally indebted to China – – – and so on.

 

No, the West, especially the USA saw China as a great way to get cheap products made, so it was all about the money. Also of course the Chinese market was very lucrative for the likes of Australia and others, so again this was driven by money.

 

To get back on track, there is much proof out there, and I have just posted elsewhere that scientists have ascertained that the virus was not man-made, and could well have been circulating for some time in the human population before it mutated.

 

 

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

There is one thing I can't understand here and that is that folks are slagging off China, for what they have always been, and for how they have always operated, and people like me who were born just after the war know full well what they are like and they won't change – – so why are people going on about them and what they do and don't do?

 

Russia is similar and is totally different to the way we operate in the West, in fact there are many countries who do not operate the way that we in the West think they should, but we have to accept it because that's what they've always been.

 

Trying to change cultures and countries that have been set in their ways for centuries is a pointless exercise, so is slagging them off, in fact slagging them off for what they've always done.

 

I don't like the Chinese one bit, and don't you think that we have made a rod for our own backs, when we should have stood up against them when they started commandeering those islands in the South China Sea; or when they started developments in other countries which these other countries couldn't afford, so they would be eternally indebted to China – – – and so on.

 

No, the West, especially the USA saw China as a great way to get cheap products made, so it was all about the money. Also of course the Chinese market was very lucrative for the likes of Australia and others, so again this was driven by money.

 

To get back on track, there is much proof out there, and I have just posted elsewhere that scientists have ascertained that the virus was not man-made, and could well have been circulating for some time in the human population before it mutated.

 

 

The general consensus is that things were better before Xi Jinping took over. Things got worse (in terms of any form of criticism towards the party) after he took over and are seemingly continuing that trend. 

 

As for slagging off China, I've never done that. My grievances are with the CCP and any criticisms I have are with their policies. I'm in my mid-thirties so even 10 years ago it wasn't so obvious to see for me. 

 

 

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

 If he had locked down airports, implemented testing and isolating people arriving from overseas he'd have been accused of racism and xenophobia etc just like the comments that are directed on a daily basis at Trump.

 

Most Britons would like to see a complete human shutdown of the UK airports and sea ports and all immigration stopped but the liberals even those in the Tory Party would never agree with that.

 

The follies of the global agenda have finally appeared and we are now paying the price.

I know it was the fault of the people who aren’t in Government.

2 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Were it not for the activities of the Chinese we would not even be discussing this.

 

It's ridiculous trying to pass the buck on to Boris, Trump or any other Western politicians. The blame is China's and no one else's.

What activities of the Chinese and are these activities partaken in by all the Chinese?

 

If you have a point to make be more precise. (Assuming of course broad brush generalizations are not the point you have to make).

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What activities of the Chinese and are these activities partaken in by all the Chinese?

 

If you have a point to make be more precise. (Assuming of course broad brush generalizations are not the point you have to make).

He never said, "all Chinese"- you know, since everyone is supposed to be "more precise" and all.

Edited May 5, 20206 yr by Crazy Alex

22 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

The general consensus is that things were better before Xi Jinping took over. Things got worse (in terms of any form of criticism towards the party) after he took over and are seemingly continuing that trend. 

 

As for slagging off China, I've never done that. My grievances are with the CCP and any criticisms I have are with their policies. I'm in my mid-thirties so even 10 years ago it wasn't so obvious to see for me. 

 

 

A good reasoned response, but IMO the CCP and the government are one and the same to all intents and purposes.

 

I wasn't accusing you of slagging off China, although I am not a fan of them or their tourists behaviour over here in Thailand, but that's a different matter.

 

They have always, as far as I can recall, silenced dissidents, controlled the masses and done whatever they wanted to do, so we shouldn't be surprised that they are acting exactly the same way.

 

I thought I had better clear something up, and that is that I am not a supporter of theirs, but even if the virus did escape from laboratory, well that could happen anywhere in the world because there are 36 and more laboratories doing research into various viruses, so accidents can happen.

 

They reported the first case DECEMBER 31 and Chinese health officials alerted the world of a cluster of 27 pneumonia cases of unknown cause, in the first report from Wuhan.

And on Jan 9th The World Health Organisation issued its first public advisory about preliminary determination of novel coronavirus.

Also, former White House homeland security adviser Tom Bossert, who was ousted by President Donald Trump in 2018, warns in a tweet: "We face a global health threat ... Coordinate!"

And at a press conference on January 14, Maria Van Kerhkove, the American epidemiologist who heads the WHO's emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told reporters there was "the possibility of human-to-human transmission between people" and "there's also the possibility of super-spreading events" 

Plenty of warnings given but no action taken, hence tens of thousands of US citizens dying.
 

48 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What activities of the Chinese and are these activities partaken in by all the Chinese?

 

If you have a point to make be more precise. (Assuming of course broad brush generalizations are not the point you have to make).

Well obviously those activities associated with CV19.

14 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Well obviously those activities associated with CV19.

Like sequencing the Coronavirus Genome and immediately (January 11~22) freely sharing the results with the world’s scientific community:

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200131114748.htm

4 hours ago, yogi100 said:

It's ridiculous trying to pass the buck on to Boris, Trump or any other Western politicians. The blame is China's and no one else's.

Nobody is trying to blame trump and Johnson. We all know it started in China but the way those two have handled the situation has led to them catastrophically being the worst hit countries in terms of total deaths. Blame doesn’t solve the issue, it just makes those two feel better, they don’t have to worry about the death toll because it’s not their fault..... except that it is.

Edited May 5, 20206 yr by Fairynuff
Typo

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

WHO says it has no evidence to support 'speculative' Covid-19 lab theory

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/who-says-it-has-no-evidence-to-support-speculative-covid-19-lab-theory-pushed-by-us

 

Right, the last time they said there's 'no evidence of something' was regarding human to human transmission of COVID-19 - that prediction didn't work out so well.

 

So I'm going to take what the WHO say with a 'pinch of salt' from here on in.

 

Also, don't forget, Tedros is an idiot !

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

Right, the last time they said there's 'no evidence of something' was regarding human to human transmission of COVID-19 - that prediction didn't work out so well.

 

So I'm going to take what the WHO say with a 'pinch of salt' from here on in.

 

Also, don't forget, Tedros is an idiot !

The WHO did not say "no evidence". The Chinese did.

Edited May 5, 20206 yr by candide

3 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Nobody is trying to blame trump and Johnson. We all know it started in China but the way those two have handled the situation has led to them catastrophically being the worst hit countries in terms of total deaths. Blame doesn’t solve the issue, it just makes those two feel better, they don’t have to worry about the death toll because it’s not their fault..... except that it is.

If Boris and DT took firmer measures against the spread of CV19 you'd be accusing them of being racists, bigots and xenophobes and the whole associated shooting match. So liberals will never be happy.

 

In reality we should close our borders, deport all illegals and have 10pm to 4am curfew like they have in Thailand. But such robust, sensible and effective measures would have the do gooders weeping and wailing their eyes out.

 

Liberalism and globalism has its price and right now we're paying that price here in the UK and they are in the US as well. And it's being paid in human lives, getting on for 100,000 of them!

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

If Boris and DT took firmer measures against the spread of CV19 you'd be accusing them of being racists, bigots and xenophobes and the whole associated shooting match. So liberals will never be happy.

 

In reality we should close our borders, deport all illegals and have 10pm to 4am curfew like they have in Thailand. But such robust, sensible and effective measures would have the do gooders weeping and wailing their eyes out.

 

Liberalism and globalism has its price and right now we're paying that price here in the UK and they are in the US as well. And it's being paid in human lives, getting on for 100,000 of them!

From the experience of SK and Germany, we know what should have  been done by other countries (the US, UK, but also other countries such as France): anticipate, organise, plan, etc... Accelerate design, production and use of tests, accelerate production of masks, ventilos and other medical supplies.

What makes you think that so-called 'liberals' would have opposed it?

3 hours ago, candide said:

The WHO did not say "no evidence". The Chinese did.

And WHO passed on the information no questions asked. They are responsible for the information they spread, correct?

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Like sequencing the Coronavirus Genome and immediately (January 11~22) freely sharing the results with the world’s scientific community:

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200131114748.htm

Cheering the Chinese. Nice.

 

 

Some off topic posts and the replies have been removed.

1 hour ago, candide said:

From the experience of SK and Germany, we know what should have  been done by other countries (the US, UK, but also other countries such as France): anticipate, organise, plan, etc... Accelerate design, production and use of tests, accelerate production of masks, ventilos and other medical supplies.

What makes you think that so-called 'liberals' would have opposed it?

What makes you think the liberals would not have opposed the closing of our borders, the deportation of all illegals and the introduction of a 10pm to 4am curfew. Measures that have been introduced in the LOS and that appear to be effective according to reports.

 

The human rights wallahs would be having kittens if such measures were even mentioned in the UK!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 20206 yr by yogi100

4 hours ago, yogi100 said:

If Boris and DT took firmer measures against the spread of CV19 you'd be accusing them of being racists, bigots and xenophobes and the whole associated shooting match. So liberals will never be happy.

 

In reality we should close our borders, deport all illegals and have 10pm to 4am curfew like they have in Thailand. But such robust, sensible and effective measures would have the do gooders weeping and wailing their eyes out.

 

Liberalism and globalism has its price and right now we're paying that price here in the UK and they are in the US as well. And it's being paid in human lives, getting on for 100,000 of them!

Your imagination running wild on excuses for the PM and his Government failing to act settles on blaming people who are not the PM and not in Government.

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

What makes you think the liberals would not have opposed the closing of our borders, the deportation of all illegals and the introduction of a 10pm to 4am curfew. Measures that have been introduced in the LOS and that appear to be effective according to reports.

 

The human rights wallahs would be having kittens if such measures were even mentioned in the UK!

 

 

 

 

 

One of your (quite obviously many) problems is that you are trying to conflate illegal immigration with the potential short term response to a global health crisis.  Please leave your odious insinuations at the door.

Edited May 6, 20206 yr by Slip

2 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Cheering the Chinese. Nice.

 

 

Recognizing a factual contribution the Chinese made in the fight against this disease is not ‘cheering the Chinese’.

 

And even if it were, what’s your problem with appreciation of positive help from anyone that is helping?

 

 

6 hours ago, yogi100 said:

If Boris and DT took firmer measures against the spread of CV19 you'd be accusing them of being racists, bigots and xenophobes and the whole associated shooting match. So liberals will never be happy.

 

In reality we should close our borders, deport all illegals and have 10pm to 4am curfew like they have in Thailand. But such robust, sensible and effective measures would have the do gooders weeping and wailing their eyes out.

 

Liberalism and globalism has its price and right now we're paying that price here in the UK and they are in the US as well. And it's being paid in human lives, getting on for 100,000 of them!

Aha so it’s all the liberals fault. Those bloody Chinese liberals.

“There is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan,” Pompeo told ABC’s “This Week”, referring to the virus that emerged late last year in China and has killed about 240,000 people around the world, including more than 67,000 in the United States.”

 

OK, show us the evidence.

8 hours ago, yogi100 said:

If Boris and DT took firmer measures against the spread of CV19 you'd be accusing them of being racists, bigots and xenophobes and the whole associated shooting match. So liberals will never be happy.

 

In reality we should close our borders, deport all illegals and have 10pm to 4am curfew like they have in Thailand. But such robust, sensible and effective measures would have the do gooders weeping and wailing their eyes out.

 

Liberalism and globalism has its price and right now we're paying that price here in the UK and they are in the US as well. And it's being paid in human lives, getting on for 100,000 of them!

Blinded by bigotry. 

20 hours ago, sirineou said:

Prioritize 

More guesswork. Daft.

9 hours ago, candide said:

The WHO did not say "no evidence". The Chinese did.

And at a press conference on January 14, Maria Van Kerhkove, the American epidemiologist who heads the WHO's emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told reporters there was "the possibility of human-to-human transmission between people" and "there's also the possibility of super-spreading events" 

 

So the warnings were given early on by the Chinese and the WHO..........but no country swung into action against it, and someone dismissed it as a kind of flu and said it would soon disappear!! 

18 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

And testing? At the beginning of April Hancock gave himself a month to get testing to 100k a day, just one fifth of what Germany was doing. He managed it for 1 day on April 30th by cheating, using 40,000 test kits sent out by post but not even received. Since then the numbers are well below.

Johnson has used his illness as nothing more than a PR stunt. He was in ICU as a precaution, never on a ventilator and never at deaths door. It was never as he say “touch and go”.

Got some evidence of this Boris "stunt" then?

15 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What activities of the Chinese and are these activities partaken in by all the Chinese?

 

If you have a point to make be more precise. (Assuming of course broad brush generalizations are not the point you have to make).