Either 50,000 more people died in March and April than would have normally, or they didn't. Are our deniers suggesting the number of death certificates is a fake? Something killed those people, so what did they die of? What cause of death has suddenly increased?

 

We know that many people are dying untested, and even if everyone was put down as dying of Coronavirus, the overall death rate wouldn't change.

 

Those are the facts.

5 hours ago, 7by7 said:

@Krataiboy, I'm not going to quote your lengthy copy and paste from a blog; it's there for all to see as is the link.

 

I will merely say it's a blog by a man who is not medically qualified. A man who sees himself as some sort of anti-establishment gadfly. A man whose main interest is self promotion and his book sales.

 

He, you, @evadgib and others all claim that the government are over reporting the Covid 19 deaths; yet none of you have given any reason why. Surely, if anything, in order convince us they're doing a good job the government would be under reporting the number of deaths? As they did at the beginning by ignoring deaths outside hospital.

 

You have all claimed that the MSM are complicit in this deception; despite for most of the last 4 years claiming that the MSM are anti Johnson and doing what they can to keep him out of office before the election and hound him out of it after.

 

None of you have explained the increase in deaths over the period. If this increase is not due to the virus, what is it due to?

 

None of you have provided a single shred of reputable evidence to back up your claims. The best you can do is an opinionated blog! How long were you searching on Google to find even that?

 

 

Rhubarbing the opposition while knowing full well that MSM and others are stifling events to suit their agenda places the 'we're not having it' club at a distinct disadvantage. How long they have the upper hand isn't yet clear, but thankfully not all of the public are a gullible as this board would have us believe... 

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Rhubarbing the opposition while knowing full well that MSM and others are stifling events to suit their agenda places the 'we're not having it' club at a distinct disadvantage. How long they have the upper hand isn't yet clear, but thankfully not all of the public are a gullible as this board would have us believe... 

Rhubarbing and the MSM conspiracy all in one post.

 

How’s your lumbago?

 

 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Rhubarbing and the MSM conspiracy all in one post.

 

How’s your lumbago?

Quote

but thankfully not all of the public are as gullible as this board would have us believe... 

Hope this fits...

Edited May 13, 20206 yr by evadgib

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Some unattributed ripped video that is any case referring to the US and not the UK death count is your evidence?

 

Here’s a clue as to why it’s totally irrelevant:

 

”UK COVID-19 death toll topped 38,000 as of early May: official data”

 

Do you have any data that demonstrates the above statement is over reporting deaths?

 

If so, please provide the data and a link to the source.

The old 'wrong end of the stick' routine hasn't worked in a while either...

Edited May 13, 20206 yr by evadgib

12 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The old 'wrong end of the stick' routine hasn't worked in a while either...

Perhaps you can help as the flat earth bloke appears to have vanished.

Simple question...

Ignoring completely any reason for death, can you explain why there has been 50000 excess deaths (about 50%increase) over the 5 year average for the period mid-March - end of April?

 

On 5/12/2020 at 10:01 PM, evadgib said:

I'm far from alone in noticing that deaths from stroke/heart attack/cancer/old age are going down just as quickly in the other direction, or that families are complaining in droves that the virus is being unduly blamed when they know full well that it wasn't the cause.

 

 

     Factual links , would be much appreciated ..

 

2 hours ago, rickudon said:

Either 50,000 more people died in March and April than would have normally, or they didn't. Are our deniers suggesting the number of death certificates is a fake? Something killed those people, so what did they die of? What cause of death has suddenly increased?

 

We know that many people are dying untested, and even if everyone was put down as dying of Coronavirus, the overall death rate wouldn't change.

 

Those are the facts.

Back in the day, Daniel Defoe wrestled with the same topic in his Journal Of The Plague Year, and came to a similar conclusion.

He also highlighted the impact of underestimating an epidemic, and the risk of opening up the economy too soon.  

Maybe next time round we will have learnt our lessons.

12 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Perhaps you can help as the flat earth bloke appears to have vanished.

Simple question...

Ignoring completely any reason for death, can you explain why there has been 50000 excess deaths (about 50%increase) over the 5 year average for the period mid-March - end of April?

 

 

1 minute ago, elliss said:

 

     Factual links , would be much appreciated ..

 

For both posts quoted above, as you will have noticed you will not receive any explanation or link, it does not fit the conspiracy/bad msm theory.

On 5/12/2020 at 11:01 PM, evadgib said:

I'm far from alone in noticing that deaths from stroke/heart attack/cancer/old age are going down just as quickly in the other direction, or that families are complaining in droves that the virus is being unduly blamed when they know full well that it wasn't the cause.

 

Feel free to follow your own virtue-signalling advice.

You are indeed far from noticing that.  If you had any data to support your assertion, the rest of us might notice what you fancy to be so obvious.  In the absence of data, mendacity is the only explanation. 

12 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

You are indeed far from noticing that.  If you had any data to support your assertion, the rest of us might notice what you fancy to be so obvious.  In the absence of data, mendacity is the only explanation. 

How can anyone possibly overcome the 'if it ain't on MSM it aint Happening' narrative that a fair %age of this board seem to have swallowed? There was a time when I trusted them too but that vanished a decade or more ago courtesy of that pratt Bliar.

 

The opening bars of Pink Floyds 'Sheep' springs to mind.

 

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

How can anyone possibly overcome the 'if it ain't on MSM it aint Happening' narrative that a fair %age of this board seem to have swallowed? There was a time when I trusted them too but that vanished a decade or more ago courtesy of that pratt Bliar.

 

The opening bars of Pink Floyds 'Sheep' springs to mind.

 

You mean the song with the lyric "What do you get for pretending the danger's not real"

 

Hmmm

28 minutes ago, mrfill said:

You mean the song with the lyric "What do you get for pretending the danger's not real"

 

Hmmm

You could have added several more, including "You'd better stay home and do as you're told (&) Get out of the road if you want to grow old"

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Rhubarbing the opposition while knowing full well that MSM and others are stifling events to suit their agenda places the 'we're not having it' club at a distinct disadvantage. How long they have the upper hand isn't yet clear, but thankfully not all of the public are a gullible as this board would have us believe... 

If by "rhubarbing the opposition" you mean providing a thoughtful critique and asking pertinent questions, then you are correct.

 

I do not know full well that the MSM are stifling events to suit their agenda. They are not, what they are doing is reporting the figures given them by the government.

 

But let's say you are correct.

Why are the number of all deaths during March and April 2020 50% higher than the five year average?

Why would the government want to convince us the number of deaths is higher than it actually is; surely it would be the other way around?

What is the MSM's agenda?

How will that agenda be advanced by reporting that the Covid 19 deaths is higher than it actually is?

Why would the MSM help them in this?

 

Not that you will answer. You and your fellow conspiracy theorists have studiously avoided answering any and all questions about your fantasies and I doubt that reluctance to answer questions, let alone supply evidence to support your absurd claims, will be changing any time soon.

51 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

If by "rhubarbing the opposition" you mean providing a thoughtful critique and asking pertinent questions, then you are correct.

 

I do not know full well that the MSM are stifling events to suit their agenda. They are not, what they are doing is reporting the figures given them by the government.

 

But let's say you are correct.

Why are the number of all deaths during March and April 2020 50% higher than the five year average?

Why would the government want to convince us the number of deaths is higher than it actually is; surely it would be the other way around?

What is the MSM's agenda?

How will that agenda be advanced by reporting that the Covid 19 deaths is higher than it actually is?

Why would the MSM help them in this?

 

Not that you will answer. You and your fellow conspiracy theorists have studiously avoided answering any and all questions about your fantasies and I doubt that reluctance to answer questions, let alone supply evidence to support your absurd claims, will be changing any time soon.

Thinking outside the box & questioning the narrative is nothing more than evidence of a fertile mind.

Failure to produce a White Rabbit on demand to satisfy the constant 'Evidence or Rhubarbing' is frustrating yet comical when you realise that MSM AREN"T ALLOWING ANY which in turn fuels the belief that 'it ain't happening!'

 

Answer this: Were you aware of the weekly unrest by yellow-jacketed rioters in France for the best part of a year before the virus took hold? Did you EVER see it reported by the likes of Sky, BBC etc, given it's on UKs doorstep? I didn't. They were too busy deflecting our attention towards Hong Kong hoping no one would notice in order to protect Macron (who had monumentally lost control) & the EU.

 

I started looking elsewhere years ago & suggest others start questioning same.

Edited May 13, 20206 yr by evadgib

19 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Thinking outside the box & questioning the narrative is nothing more than evidence of a fertile mind.

Failure to produce a White Rabbit on demand to satisfy the constant 'Evidence or Rhubarbing' is frustrating yet comical when you realise that MSM AREN"T ALLOWING ANY which in turn fuels the belief that 'it ain't happening!'

 You must be getting your 'facts' from somewhere; so why no links to your sources?

 

Or is your 'fertile mind' simply making it all up?

 

21 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Answer this: Were you aware of the weekly unrest by yellow-jacketed rioters in France for the best part of a year before the virus took hold? Did you EVER see it reported by the likes of Sky, BBC etc, given it's on UKs doorstep? I didn't. They were too busy deflecting our attention towards Hong Kong hoping no one would notice in order to protect Macron (who had monumentally lost control) & the EU.

Yes, I was aware of it; because it was being reported in the UK by the MSM.  

 

An example from 25th April 2019: France's Macron responds to yellow vests with promise of reforms.

 

Another from 24th November 2018: France fuel protests: Police in Paris fire tear gas.

 

You may not have noticed these reports from your perch in Thailand; but at the time we in the UK saw them every day on our TV, radio and newspapers.

 

26 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I started looking elsewhere years ago & suggest others start questioning same

Perhaps looking elsewhere at conspiracy sites is why you didn't know about the reports I linked to and the many others at the time.

 

You have yet to link to a single one of your alternative sources; why is that? Are they so far off the grid that they are also off the net?

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 You must be getting your 'facts' from somewhere; so why no links to your sources?

 

Or is your 'fertile mind' simply making it all up?

 

Yes, I was aware of it; because it was being reported in the UK by the MSM.  

 

An example from 25th April 2019: France's Macron responds to yellow vests with promise of reforms.

 

Another from 24th November 2018: France fuel protests: Police in Paris fire tear gas.

 

You may not have noticed these reports from your perch in Thailand; but at the time we in the UK saw them every day on our TV, radio and newspapers.

 

Perhaps looking elsewhere at conspiracy sites is why you didn't know about the reports I linked to and the many others at the time.

 

You have yet to link to a single one of your alternative sources; why is that? Are they so far off the grid that they are also off the net?

'Conspiracy sites' seems to be yet another Richard Fairbrass (you know what I mean by that, lol) but at 2am I'm done for today.

 

Goodnight 49, I so enjoy stirring you up ????

6 hours ago, evadgib said:

Thinking outside the box & questioning the narrative is nothing more than evidence of a fertile mind.

Failure to produce a White Rabbit on demand to satisfy the constant 'Evidence or Rhubarbing' is frustrating yet comical when you realise that MSM AREN"T ALLOWING ANY which in turn fuels the belief that 'it ain't happening!'

 

Answer this: Were you aware of the weekly unrest by yellow-jacketed rioters in France for the best part of a year before the virus took hold? Did you EVER see it reported by the likes of Sky, BBC etc, given it's on UKs doorstep? I didn't. They were too busy deflecting our attention towards Hong Kong hoping no one would notice in order to protect Macron (who had monumentally lost control) & the EU.

 

I started looking elsewhere years ago & suggest others start questioning same.

Conspiracy hogwash.

 

“I started looking elsewhere years ago & suggest others start questioning same.”

 

Please do share with us where exactly this ‘elsewhere’ is?

 

We might want to join you.

6 hours ago, evadgib said:

'Conspiracy sites' seems to be yet another Richard Fairbrass (you know what I mean by that, lol) but at 2am I'm done for today.

 

Goodnight 49, I so enjoy stirring you up ????

Perhaps you could give a link to evidence that deaths from heart attacks, strokes, old age etc have been falling in the UK.

This is the second time I have asked you for such a link. I would be interested to read about this myself.

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Perhaps you could give a link to evidence that deaths from heart attacks, strokes, old age etc have been falling in the UK.

This is the second time I have asked you for such a link. I would be interested to read about this myself.

"The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in March 2020 was 49,723; this represents an increase of 6,070 deaths in comparison with the previous month and an increase of 5,777 deaths in comparison with the same month in 2019"

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

 

So only 6,000 extra deaths recorded so far ...... not 38,000.

We won't know Aprils figures until they're published, maybe there was an extra 32,000 deaths in April.

Edited May 14, 20206 yr by BritManToo

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

"The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in March 2020 was 49,723; this represents an increase of 6,070 deaths in comparison with the previous month and an increase of 5,777 deaths in comparison with the same month in 2019"

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

 

So only 6,000 extra deaths recorded so far ...... not 38,000.

We won't know Aprils figures until they're published, maybe there was an extra 32,000 deaths in April.

The ONS have published provisional statistics for 1 May already.

 

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending1may2020

Edited May 14, 20206 yr by cleopatra2

15 hours ago, mrfill said:

Could I trouble you for an answer to post #24 please? The one about the 50000 excess deaths over the 5 year average for all causes.

Try asking your government how many of these excess deaths are the direct result of the seemingly never-ending lockdown and other draconian policies which are undermining the physical and mental health of the entire nation.

 

I'll wager they haven't a clue. They are simply not interested in the mounting collateral damage being caused by their disastrous anti-COVID measures - even though experts predict this could have a greater long-term impact than the pandemic (which even Boris Johnson now admits is similar to flu).

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/economic-shutdown-could-kill-coronavirus-experts-warn/

 

 

It's the same tragic story in other countries where the lockdown "cure" could end up worse than the disease.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/economic-shutdown-could-kill-coronavirus-experts-warn/

 

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/05/07/report-suicide-rise-from-lockdowns-to-kill-more-than-coronavirus-in-australia/

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11418449/dr-phil-coronavirus-lockdown-car-crashes-swimming-pools/

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

"The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in March 2020 was 49,723; this represents an increase of 6,070 deaths in comparison with the previous month and an increase of 5,777 deaths in comparison with the same month in 2019"

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

 

So only 6,000 extra deaths recorded so far ...... not 38,000.

We won't know Aprils figures until they're published, maybe there was an extra 32,000 deaths in April.

Can open the link but I cannot open XL documents.

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

"The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in March 2020 was 49,723; this represents an increase of 6,070 deaths in comparison with the previous month and an increase of 5,777 deaths in comparison with the same month in 2019"

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence

 

So only 6,000 extra deaths recorded so far ...... not 38,000.

We won't know Aprils figures until they're published, maybe there was an extra 32,000 deaths in April.

OK went googling and found the revised figures.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/articles/comparisonofweeklydeathoccurrencesinenglandandwales/uptoweekending1may2020

 

Now the revised figures give a telling statement regarding numbers.

 

"From 29 April 2020, there was a change in the reporting of the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) daily coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths data. Prior to 29 April, the daily published counts of COVID-19 deaths for England accounted for deaths that had tested positive for COVID-19 in hospitals only. From 29 April, this data series has been improved by Public Health England (PHE) to include all deaths where a positive test for COVID-19 has been confirmed, wherever the death took place."

 

So the figures you linked to are a)Out of date and b) never accurate in the first place.

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So the figures you linked to are a)Out of date and b) never accurate in the first place.

If you only consider the total deaths per month you get more like the truth.

Before March no COVID, so any extra deaths in March and April are pure COVID with little chance to play with the figures.

Once you allow people to start recording deaths under 'different cause' headings, you can play games.

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Conspiracy hogwash.

 

“I started looking elsewhere years ago & suggest others start questioning same.”

 

Please do share with us where exactly this ‘elsewhere’ is?

 

We might want to join you.

lol, from the master of obfuscation ????

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Perhaps you could give a link to evidence that deaths from heart attacks, strokes, old age etc have been falling in the UK.

This is the second time I have asked you for such a link. I would be interested to read about this myself.

'MSM aint covering it therefore it aint happening'....again?

 

I'm going back onto listening watch ????

 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

'MSM aint covering it therefore it aint happening'....again?

 

I'm going back onto listening watch ????

 

If the MSM are not covering it where are you learning about it?

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If you only consider the total deaths per month you get more like the truth.

Before March no COVID, so any extra deaths in March and April are pure COVID with little chance to play with the figures.

Once you allow people to start recording deaths under 'different cause' headings, you can play games.

Who do you suspect is playing games with the figures?

Just now, Rookiescot said:

Who do you suspect is playing games with the figures?

Always the security forces.