5 hours ago, steelepulse said:

Not quite following why normal aged parents are "vulnerable".  Why is a mid 30's - mid 40's vulnerable?  Look at the stats.  How many grandparents do you know that see live with or see their grandkids on a daily basis, not too mention more than a few times a year?

Have you actually looked at the stats of those most likely to become infected?

My niece a fit healthy 35 year old woman who runs a farm, is a fitness fanatic had no underlying health issues , is now 60 days post hospital with Covid19  lives with the following:

Cardiac arrhythmia

Bowel and intestinal cramps. and diarrhea

Chronic fatigue

Kidney insufficiency

This is not a mild illness for many.

 

  

 

 

6 minutes ago, tlock said:

I have always considered myself a liberal.  An old school liberal, freedom of speech in the 60s, free love, tolerant of others to make their own choices.  You do you, I'll do me.

 

I am appalled at the dystopian authoritarian direction the world is heading in.  People are openly scoffing at citizens concerned about losing civil liberties.  "If you don't have anything to hide, why not install a tracking app".  Anyone who is concerned for freedom is called a conspiracy theorist and censored on youtube???  Why isn't this sounding any alarms?

 

I recently learned of the political compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass

 

In the past, the Democrats leaned more left libertarian (freedom of speech, government assistance for the poor).  Currently they are left authoritarian.  Conversely, in the past the Republicans were right authoritarian (family values, pro-life), and Trump has pushed the party to right libertarian.

 

It's always a poor choice, I really wish we had more than 2 choices.  However, I support Trump's policies regarding opening up the economy.  I do think he is doing it for the wrong reason's (his re-election wishes vs. the good of the country).  Likewise though, I suspect some of the Democrats also have questionable motives (they just don't want Trump to get re-elected).  In what other era would Democrats disregard 30 million job losses by the lower rungs of society?

 

Why do you say they "disregard 30 million job losses by the lower rungs of society"? For most people it's a matter of the lesser of to evils. Some (most it seems) support a continued effort to flatten the curve while others would like a faster return to "normal".

Oh, and Trump hasn't "pushed the party to right libertarian". He has pushed the GOP to the bottom of the swamp, the place he loves and thrives in.

7 minutes ago, tlock said:

I have always considered myself a liberal.  An old school liberal, freedom of speech in the 60s, free love, tolerant of others to make their own choices.  You do you, I'll do me.

 

I am appalled at the dystopian authoritarian direction the world is heading in.  People are openly scoffing at citizens concerned about losing civil liberties.  "If you don't have anything to hide, why not install a tracking app".  Anyone who is concerned for freedom is called a conspiracy theorist and censored on youtube???  Why isn't this sounding any alarms?

 

I recently learned of the political compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass

 

In the past, the Democrats leaned more left libertarian (freedom of speech, government assistance for the poor).  Currently they are left authoritarian.  Conversely, in the past the Republicans were right authoritarian (family values, pro-life), and Trump has pushed the party to right libertarian.

 

It's always a poor choice, I really wish we had more than 2 choices.  However, I support Trump's policies regarding opening up the economy.  I do think he is doing it for the wrong reason's (his re-election wishes vs. the good of the country).  Likewise though, I suspect some of the Democrats also have questionable motives (they just don't want Trump to get re-elected).  In what other era would Democrats disregard 30 million job losses by the lower rungs of society?

 

If the website you reference identifies trump as taking the republican party to 'right libertarian' someone really needs to rework the algorithms.

 

How do you justify claiming the Dems "disregard 30 million job losses by the lower rungs of society"? it's the Dems who are pushing for further support for the unemployed, not republicans. Also the Dems follow the agreed guidance criteria for opening up the economy in a manner to protect the general public and economy from a second wave of Covid. trump and co are specifically working against the guidance they published in the first place - what was Obama saying about chaos?

8 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Oh, and Trump hasn't "pushed the party to right libertarian". He has pushed the GOP to the bottom of the swamp, the place he loves and thrives in.

 

Don't know what planet you are living on, but the only party that has had any major shift is the Democrat Party, and it's a hard shift to the left - so much so that the party is completely unrecognizable from what it was even during Obamas first term. Republicans remain steady on the same issues with no real change other than Trump coming in a rattling cages. 

This man is really something else.

Couldn't care less about people's health, only about getting himself reelected. 

Yet to hear a word of remorse,  probably never will.

Doesn't have it in him.

 

 

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

How do you justify claiming the Dems "disregard 30 million job losses by the lower rungs of society"? it's the Dems who are pushing for further support for the unemployed, not republicans.

 

Uh, it was the republicans who got people their first $1200, and its the Republicans who fought to get more money to small businesses so they can stay afloat. Democrats have been putting politics above the country since this pandemic started. You have it all backwards. 

19 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Why do you say they "disregard 30 million job losses by the lower rungs of society"? For most people it's a matter of the lesser of to evils. Some (most it seems) support a continued effort to flatten the curve while others would like a faster return to "normal".

Oh, and Trump hasn't "pushed the party to right libertarian". He has pushed the GOP to the bottom of the swamp, the place he loves and thrives in.

 

I guess I fall firmly in the cure is worse than the disease camp.  The longer we lockdown, the more disproportionately the poor will be effected.  And I voted for Obama, who did not lockdown for H1N1.  H1N1 had 700 million to 1.6 billion infections in 2009: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic#Comparisons_to_other_pandemics_and_epidemics and an estimated 500,000 deaths.  I agree that this one is probably more lethal than H1N1, but I don't think it's by orders of magnitude.  

 

I just can't imagine the members of the Chicago Seven supporting contact tracing and police enforcement of lockdown policies.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

 

 

Uh, it was the republicans who got people their first $1200, and its the Republicans who fought to get more money to small businesses so they can stay afloat. Democrats have been putting politics above the country since this pandemic started. You have it all backwards. 

Talks had originally stalled in the Senate on Sunday because Democrats were worried that the bailout did not include enough oversight over corporate loans and gave too little protection to workers.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-us-bailout-what-you-need-to-know

 

As you know trump later broke his promise for independent oversight, so funding for corporates ripe for political corruption.

2 minutes ago, Syduan said:

You can when you're dealing with someone as evil as Fauci. 

 

Now he is EVIL? Because he wants people to stay home and save lives? You and I have completely different definitions of "evil"

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Talks had originally stalled in the Senate on Sunday because Democrats were worried that the bailout did not include enough oversight over corporate loans and gave too little protection to workers.

 

Un huh, then under the guise of the above, they forced in billions of completely unrelated dollars. 

 

Then, they told everyone that it wasn't safe enough for them to go back to work because of Covid, essentially saying they are non-essential.... Then in hiding wrote up a 3 trillion dollar bill that never in a million years would pass. 

 

Politics over country. Its the Democrat way. Always has been and always will be. Thats why Trump is president and thats why they recently flipped a House seat in Cali, and will likely keep losing. 

Just now, Phoenix Rising said:

LOL, oh yeah? Does that e.g include keeping the deficit down? 

 

Of course it does, but you have to reduce spending which is fought tooth and nail by the left at every single instance no matter what. Wanna go back through history and see who is the biggest spender driving the deficit? HINT: It aint republicans. Republicans want to reduce spending and lower taxes, always have, but the country is so <deleted> partisan that anything republicans do, the left reacts to the opposite. 

 

4 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Now, why did you have to mention Trump in the same sentence as the word "cage"! Do you have any idea what instant physical reaction that elicits?

Oh well, the wife will be happy.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. 

2 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

First you say the weren't like this before, that they have changed. Then you turn around and say they've always been like this. Could you please make up your mind,

you're worse than my wife in a shoe store!

 

Policy wise they are unrecognizable, but they have always been about power, control, and incrementalism as a system of getting there. But you're just trolling now, so ill leave you to it. 

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Of course it does, but you have to reduce spending which is fought tooth and nail by the left at every single instance no matter what. Wanna go back through history and see who is the biggest spender driving the deficit? HINT: It aint republicans.

Hint; you're wrong.

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/jul/29/tweets/republican-presidents-democrats-contribute-deficit/

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Un huh, then under the guise of the above, they forced in billions of completely unrelated dollars. 

 

Then, they told everyone that it wasn't safe enough for them to go back to work because of Covid, essentially saying they are non-essential.... Then in hiding wrote up a 3 trillion dollar bill that never in a million years would pass. 

 

Politics over country. Its the Democrat way. Always has been and always will be. Thats why Trump is president and thats why they recently flipped a House seat in Cali, and will likely keep losing. 

For a change accept some facts. So far as i know Dems are adhering to the trump Covid task force guidelines for return to work. $3 trillion package I guess boils down to the usual push and shove, eventually something will be sorted out regards who wants what when.

11 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Sorry, Mr. Pres.  You cannot argue with science and 40 + years of experience in this field. You cannot inject "alternate facts" into this one!

Actually, the president CAN argue with science. The Fauci cartel doesn't make economic decisions. The solutions being presented remind me of how in the old days doctors used to bleed people. Would you say it was a good thing people argued with that 2,000 years of "science"?

Edited May 14, 20206 yr by Crazy Alex

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

For a change accept some facts. So far as i know Dems are adhering to the trump Covid task force guidelines for return to work. $3 trillion package I guess boils down to the usual push and shove, eventually something will be sorted out regards who wants what when.

 

Why do you guys talk about wanting to follow facts, then post your opinion? 

36 minutes ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

Now he is EVIL? Because he wants people to stay home and save lives? You and I have completely different definitions of "evil"

The cost is the problem.

1 minute ago, Crazy Alex said:

Actually, the president CAN argue with science. The Fauci cartel doesn't make economic decisions. The solutions being presented remind me of how in the old days doctors used to bleed people. Would you say it was a good thing people argued with that "science"?

Actually, it was scientists who argued against that, not the snake oil salesmen of the day.

A post using a video from an unapproved YouTube source and a reply has been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is not to be used as  source material unless it is from a recognized or approved news media source,  the source of any such material (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube  etc.) should always be shown.

 

Off topic baiting posts and the replies have been removed .

4 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Actually, it was scientists who argued against that, not the snake oil salesmen of the day.

2,000 years of science said bloodletting was the cure. Economics is a science. Why is a health care scientist trying to dictate a matter of economics- and using emotions to do so? Doesn't sound very scientific to me.

4 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

The doctor has been dead for years......or, did you not know that?

I also couldn't give a money's muff what you think either. Yes, there is something definitely wrong with people who follow this man after theree years. You kinda remind me of one of those cartoon minions.

The doctor did NOT admit to pulling a bone spurs scam. Why post something that is debunked by your own link?

Just now, Crazy Alex said:

The doctor did NOT admit to pulling a bone spurs scam. Why post something that is debunked by your own link?

Doctors talk to their daughter's.

You know Trump was playing basketball whilst he had these bone-spurs right?

When asked about it, Trump couldn't even remember what foot he had them.

Trump avoiding the draft because rules don't apply to him is very much within his character (or lack there of).

It could all be cleared up if he showed an -ray to prove he had them. Guess what.........?

34 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

2,000 years of science said bloodletting was the cure. Economics is a science. Why is a health care scientist trying to dictate a matter of economics- and using emotions to do so? Doesn't sound very scientific to me.

If your doctor said that you need to take some time off or you'll likely kill yourself does that sound unscientific to you?

I thought not.

12 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

But I gotta break from Trump on the schools thing. Children and schools are hotbeds for disease spreading and while they probably won't get sick, they sure will bring it home. 

Looks like the virus has its very own way of culling the young. They may die but differently. Forgive me, I've forgotten the syndrome name. Al..... 

but the young are also in great danger. They may bring home more than CV. 

8 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

If your doctor said that you need to take some time off or you'll likely kill yourself does that sound unscientific to you?

I thought not.

Yes that's sounds very unscientific to me, as does your effort to portray Dr. Fauci as an authority on economics.

Edited May 14, 20206 yr by Crazy Alex

Another post using a video from an unapproved YouTube source has been removed as well as a reply:

 

18) Social Media content is not to be used as  source material unless it is from a recognized or approved news media source,  the source of any such material (Twitter, Facebook, YouTube  etc.) should always be shown.

 

Off topic posts replying to previously removed posts have been removed. 

 

 

A golden rule of politics is just let the opponent continue to daily destroy himself. Reason enough for Biden to just stay in his basement.

10 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Dunno how you disagree with it. The US can not print any more money without winding in spending, and before you melt down, we can wind in spending AND have lower taxes. Stock markets are holding, showing confidence in recovery, but continued lockdowns and printing trillions of dollars will spook investors and could bring it all down. 

 

This is just as valid of a concern as the virus, and its not a viable long term strategy. 

So its the bottom line again. Lives versus dollars? I cant be arsed to comment anymore but I'm watching with interest. 

3 minutes ago, lagavulin1 said:

So its the bottom line again. Lives versus dollars? I cant be arsed to comment anymore but I'm watching with interest. 

Of course it's lives versus dollars, as always. If it weren't, cars would be banned because of the tens of thousands of people killed on US roads each year.

14 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Yes that's sounds very unscientific to me....

OK, your doctor's advice to you is unscientific. Have a good day and lots of luck - you'll need it.