U.S. judge asks if ex-Trump aide Flynn should be held in contempt

[cmarshall]

18 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I did not make an accusation of bias. Why do you immediately assume the derogatory part of the definition, that is, as in prejudice? I cannot and would not accuse someone I do not know. I have said before I have no politics in this. For your information here are the different definitions of the term 'bias'; The word originally meant oblique. Now meaning inclination (either in attitude or physically), pre-disposition, inflexion, prejudice. Immediately for you the negative accusative connotation is the only choice and produces a defensive mechanism when in fact no there was no attack. Why take something to mean an insult where no such thing was written or intended or justified. We all have a bias, an inclination which guides to what we do in life. I have a scientific objective bias to my outlook and I don't accuse people of anything if I am not acquainted with them. You have grossly misunderstood and given way to an emotional interpretation and jumping to conclusions. Perhaps seeking the correct and intended interpretation would have been right to do but no. Talk about one is innocent before proven guilty, here it is 'negative until proven positive'. I am glad I don't have that outlook.

You, sir, are hopeless.  I wish you all the best for the rest of your life.

[TKDfella]

5 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

You, sir, are hopeless.  I wish you all the best for the rest of your life.

And you sir are narrow minded. Good luck to you too.

[Crazy Alex]

12 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Dick Cheney started to think to himself.

 

That was big of him, the ACLU were critical from the start of the Patriot Act and many other aspects of the ‘War on Terror’.

 

Illiberals were not happy to hear it from the ACLU.

The Patriot Act was passed with huge bipartisan support, including Hillary Clinton. I, of course opposed it.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

 

 

[Sujo]

5 hours ago, BobBKK said:

'friend of the Dems' more like

There you have it. By saying that you admit dropping the sentencing was political. Therefore it is entirely reasonable for the judge to ask advice.

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, TKDfella said:

And you sir are narrow minded. Good luck to you too.

Tbh. There is no presumption of innocence. Flynn admitted guilt. You have been very disingenuous.

[Crazy Alex]

4 minutes ago, Sujo said:

There you have it. By saying that you admit dropping the sentencing was political. Therefore it is entirely reasonable for the judge to ask advice.

He can't figure it out himself?

[nattaya09]

Just a delay hoping that POTUS will pardon him and seed another media "Constitutional crisis" narrative.

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Tbh. There is no presumption of innocence. Flynn admitted guilt. You have been very disingenuous.

Was not discussing Gen. Flynn. I know what he has said which he now withdraws and that the DOJ have moved for dismissal. That is clearly a matter for the court at this time. The republicans thought it was a formality that Judge Sullivan would agree and they turned out to be wrong. Nowhere did I claim that Gen. Flynn is innocent or guilty so you are wrong to mention that. What I did say about presumption of innocence was directed to those accusing me of something I had not done. And which part of definition 'disingenuous' are you referring, lacking sincerity, falsehoods, hypocritical etc. Hiding behind the vagueness of such words shows at very least, lack of confidence in your own conviction. If you can't say what you mean then perhaps you ought to refrain from saying anything.

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

He can't figure it out himself?

Im sure he can, and has, but as a matter of caution seeks advice and confirmation, as any learned person does.

 

Why do you think there is more than one justice on the supreme court.

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, TKDfella said:

<snip> The republicans thought it was a formality that Judge Sullivan would agree and they turned out to be wrong. 

<snip>

So looks like you're agreeing the DoJ has turned political.

[Mama Noodle]

18 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So looks like you're agreeing the DoJ has turned political.

 

More like Judge Sullivan has turned political and has an upward mobility desire to be Prosecutor Sullivan. 

[Langsuan Man]

What everyone seems to be forgetting here is that not only did Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI but part of his elocution he was required to admit to the commission of many other felonies.   To whit, being an agent of the Turkish Government, while holding a position as National Security Advisor, for which his firm was paid $500,000 along with a whole laundry list of other crimes 

 

Do you really think that any judge is just going to forget those admissions

 

Just like at sentencing, the DOJ is invited to recommend the sentence, but it is the judge who decides it, and at this point in the proceedings, DOJ is merely  "a friend of the court"

 

It's all in the judges hands, who asked the DOJ after the guilty plea,  why Flynn wasn't charged with treason !

Edited May 17, 2020 by Langsuan Man

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

More like Judge Sullivan has turned political and has an upward mobility desire to be Prosecutor Sullivan. 

That is not what the poster I replied to said. Plus your claim is factually incorrect.

[TopDeadSenter]

As the deep state spy scandal against Flynn, or "Obamagate" as it is now called gathers pace, somebody has started panicking. Desperate to deflect attention from his wrongdoings he again tries to muddy the waters and fan the flames of divisiveness. One thing he was actually quite good at.

 Well, one thing is for sure. Going forward Republican ex Presidents are free to slag off sitting opposition Presidents. Another respectful tradition trashed by Obama for purely selfish reasons. As an alleged Christian he should be familiar with the concept of doing to others as you would have them do to you.

 

‘More than anything, this pandemic has fully, finally torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they’re doing,’ Obama told graduates on Saturday.

‘A lot of them aren’t even pretending to be in charge.’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8326855/Barack-Obama-tears-Trump-saying-pandemic-shown-president-doesnt-know-hes-doing.html

[TKDfella]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

So looks like you're agreeing the DoJ has turned political.

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm merely stating facts. Fact 1, The Rep. media news was saying they expect a signed off dismissal within a couple/few days. Fact 2. That didn't happen so they were wrong. No political intent on my part at at all. I did not mention the DOJ in that given sentence, just Rep.'s.

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Desperate to deflect attention from his wrongdoings he again tries to muddy the waters and fan the flames of divisiveness. One thing he was actually quite good at.

You are talking about the stable genius here, aren't you?

 

PH

[cmarshall]

2 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

What everyone seems to be forgetting here is that not only did Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI but part of his elocution he was required to admit to the commission of many other felonies.   To whit, being an agent of the Turkish Government, while holding a position as National Security Advisor, for which his firm was paid $500,000 along with a whole laundry list of other crimes 

 

Do you really think that any judge is just going to forget those admissions

 

Just like at sentencing, the DOJ is invited to recommend the sentence, but it is the judge who decides it, and at this point in the proceedings, DOJ is merely  "a friend of the court"

 

It's all in the judges hands, who asked the DOJ after the guilty plea,  why Flynn wasn't charged with treason !

The judge can only sentence him for crimes for which he has been convicted and per the plea agreement the DoJ has agreed not to charge him for the other crimes to which he has confessed.  If that were not the case no career criminal would ever agree to any plea deal since they usually require admitting to all crimes not charged.  The reason that the DoJ requires confessions to crimes which DoJ has agreed not to charge him with is that, in the event that the accused fails to fulfill the requirements of the plea deal, the plea agreement becomes null and void and the DoJ could then charge him for those crimes and win an easy conviction because he has already confessed to them.  Flynn has failed to fulfill the terms of his plea deal by attempting to withdraw his guilty plea, but faces no immediate threat of prosecution on that basis because Barr's DoJ is in Trump's pocket.  It could be different in the future, however.

 

Since Flynn became a convicted felon the moment his guilty plea was accepted by Judge Sullivan, the pending motion by the government cannot reverse his conviction.  Neither can a pardon. Only an appellate court decision can overturn the conviction.  Therefore, the charges cannot be withdrawn and the gist of the motion is just to ask the judge to decline to sentence the convicted felon, which is what makes it extraordinary.

Edited May 17, 2020 by cmarshall

[stevenl]

59 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm merely stating facts. Fact 1, The Rep. media news was saying they expect a signed off dismissal within a couple/few days. Fact 2. That didn't happen so they were wrong. No political intent on my part at at all. I did not mention the DOJ in that given sentence, just Rep.'s.

So how can you say 'the republicans thought it was a formality judge Sullivan would sign off' when you were not referring to the republicans? And if you were referring to the republicans, as your quote would indicate, how can that not be seen as political?

[TKDfella]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So how can you say 'the republicans thought it was a formality judge Sullivan would sign off' when you were not referring to the republicans? And if you were referring to the republicans, as your quote would indicate, how can that not be seen as political?

Stop trying to twist my words into politics. The fact was that the Republican media (that I saw) was expecting Judge Sullivan to agree with a dismissal. But the fact  was Judge Sullivan did not do that and therefore the media expectation was wrong. Absolutely no political content there at all. This is just what happened. I don't know why the Rep. media expected a dismissal from Judge Sullivan. The facts are the Rep's expected 'this' and and the Judge did 'that'. No political connotations intended and none given, just the sequence of events as they happened. Why you cannot understand this I don't know...perhaps to you everything has to be political. Very sad.

[stevenl]

40 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Stop trying to twist my words into politics. The fact was that the Republican media (that I saw) was expecting Judge Sullivan to agree with a dismissal. But the fact  was Judge Sullivan did not do that and therefore the media expectation was wrong. Absolutely no political content there at all. This is just what happened. I don't know why the Rep. media expected a dismissal from Judge Sullivan. The facts are the Rep's expected 'this' and and the Judge did 'that'. No political connotations intended and none given, just the sequence of events as they happened. Why you cannot understand this I don't know...perhaps to you everything has to be political. Very sad.

Thanks, all clear. When you said 'the republicans expected judge Sullivan to sign off' you were referring to the republican media, not the republicans.

When you say 'republicans' I presume you refer to republicans, sorry about that misunderstanding. 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

The judge can only sentence him for crimes for which he has been convicted and per the plea agreement the DoJ has agreed not to charge him for the other crimes to which he has confessed.  If that were not the case no career criminal would ever agree to any plea deal since they usually require admitting to all crimes not charged.  The reason that the DoJ requires confessions to crimes which DoJ has agreed not to charge him with is that, in the event that the accused fails to fulfill the requirements of the plea deal, the plea agreement becomes null and void and the DoJ could then charge him for those crimes and win an easy conviction because he has already confessed to them.  Flynn has failed to fulfill the terms of his plea deal by attempting to withdraw his guilty plea, but faces no immediate threat of prosecution on that basis because Barr's DoJ is in Trump's pocket.  It could be different in the future, however.

 

Since Flynn became a convicted felon the moment his guilty plea was accepted by Judge Sullivan, the pending motion by the government cannot reverse his conviction.  Neither can a pardon. Only an appellate court decision can overturn the conviction.  Therefore, the charges cannot be withdrawn and the gist of the motion is just to ask the judge to decline to sentence the convicted felon, which is what makes it extraordinary.

You got a source for that or is this your opinion! I liked to see where your getting your information

 

"Since Flynn became a convicted felon the moment his guilty plea was accepted by Judge Sullivan, the pending motion by the government cannot reverse his conviction.  Neither can a pardon. Only an appellate court decision can overturn the conviction.  Therefore, the charges cannot be withdrawn and the gist of the motion is just to ask the judge to decline to sentence the convicted felon, which is what makes it extraordinary". 

[i84teen]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

You got a source for that or is this your opinion! I liked to see where your getting your information

 

"Since Flynn became a convicted felon the moment his guilty plea was accepted by Judge Sullivan, the pending motion by the government cannot reverse his conviction.  Neither can a pardon. Only an appellate court decision can overturn the conviction.  Therefore, the charges cannot be withdrawn and the gist of the motion is just to ask the judge to decline to sentence the convicted felon, which is what makes it extraordinary". 

Flynn's lawyers will undoubtedly or should file a "writ of prohibition" (with the appellate court):

"if Judge Sullivan won’t recuse himself despite his bias, what can be done? Levin offered a solution: the Justice Department should file a Writ of Prohibition preventing Sullivan from going outside his jurisdiction in an effort to act as both judge and prosecutor"

 

Note that the just last week, a unanimous 9-0 Supreme Court decision written by Ruth Bader Ginsburg ruled that a judge can’t use friend of the court briefs (as Judge Sullivan is doing) to change the nature and position of a case in order to force the parties to fight over “not what the parties were fighting over – but, what the court wanted them to fight over."

https://tinyurl.com/cnsnews-flynn

 

Yes, the courts will have no choice but to end this political charade and debacle and obvious constitutional rights abuses perpetrated by the gov't. Flynn walks at the end of the day, Trumps wins another one and should consider Flynn for the soon vacant FBI director position!

Edited May 17, 2020 by i84teen

[TKDfella]

18 minutes ago, i84teen said:

Flynn's lawyers will undoubtedly or should file a "writ of prohibition" (with the appellate court):

"if Judge Sullivan won’t recuse himself despite his bias, what can be done? Levin offered a solution: the Justice Department should file a Writ of Prohibition preventing Sullivan from going outside his jurisdiction in an effort to act as both judge and prosecutor"

 

Note that the just last week, a unanimous 9-0 Supreme Court decision written by Ruth Bader Ginsburg ruled that a judge can’t use friend of the court briefs (as Judge Sullivan is doing) to change the nature and position of a case in order to force the parties to fight over “not what the parties were fighting over – but, what the court wanted them to fight over."

https://tinyurl.com/cnsnews-flynn

 

Yes, the courts will have no choice but to end this political charade and debacle and obvious constitutional rights abuses perpetrated by the gov't. Flynn walks at the end of the day, Trumps wins another one and should consider Flynn for the soon vacant FBI director position!

Interesting. I've just read an article on Forbes by Mark Chenoweth

(https://www.forbes.com/sites/markchenoweth/2020/05/14/judge-sullivan-disregards-two-controlling-precedents-by-appointing-amicus-in-flynn-case/#287f3a1c6f0a)

The author writes that he wonders if Judge Sullivan paid attention to the SC ruling. The author also writes of the Ninth Circuit violation of the 'party presentation principle' and that Judge Sullivan will duplicate the violation if he does anything other than accept dismissal of the charges. There is another article by the WSJ saying something similar.

Will be interesting to see how this goes.????

[Phoenix Rising]

Some facts:

 

'AP FACT CHECK: Trump, GOP distortion on Flynn; virus fiction'

[Crazy Alex]

2 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Some facts:

 

'AP FACT CHECK: Trump, GOP distortion on Flynn; virus fiction'

"Some AP facts". There, fixed it for you.

[Phulublub]

7 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

"Some AP facts". There, fixed it for you.

You agree they are facts, then.  Good to know ylou are slowly coming to realsie just what a useless fraud your current Administration is.

 

PH

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:55 AM, Sujo said:

Tbh. There is no presumption of innocence. Flynn admitted guilt. You have been very disingenuous.

There is no black and white in things human. Apparently in American so called justice system people plead guilty to things they did not do all the time as the system is rigged ( from what I have learned about it over the years ), and it's beneficial to plead guilty than suffer far worse penalty by staying the course of innocence. If indeed Flynn's son was threatened, it follows that he may have been coerced to plead guilty to save his son.

A guilty plea in America apparently does not mean that the person was actually guilty.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, i84teen said:

Flynn walks at the end of the day, Trumps wins another one and should consider Flynn for the soon vacant FBI director position!

I'd imagine there are many in the FBI quaking in their boots highly polished shoes at the prospect of Flynn looking into their antics over the Russia Russia Russia charade.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, TKDfella said:

Interesting. I've just read an article on Forbes by Mark Chenoweth

(https://www.forbes.com/sites/markchenoweth/2020/05/14/judge-sullivan-disregards-two-controlling-precedents-by-appointing-amicus-in-flynn-case/#287f3a1c6f0a)

The author writes that he wonders if Judge Sullivan paid attention to the SC ruling. The author also writes of the Ninth Circuit violation of the 'party presentation principle' and that Judge Sullivan will duplicate the violation if he does anything other than accept dismissal of the charges. There is another article by the WSJ saying something similar.

Will be interesting to see how this goes.????

Wouldn't it be a gas if Sullivan was impeached for knowingly violating a SC ruling?

[metisdead]

A post containing content that was copy and pasted from some news site has been removed:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

 

15) Any links posted must lead to the website the link indicates. Links that are misleading or direct to a site different than the one indicated are not allowed.