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Sweden - is the rest of the world dumb, blind or worse ?


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9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

total garbage that. Such a sweeping vague statement. In the UK its widely accepted that people aren't going to hospital for cancer treatment, strokes, heart issues and other conditions and will cause more deaths, fact. No idea about other countries

It's exactly the same in Sweden. Swedish health authorities say openly that everything non life threatening is shut down

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9 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

The video i quoted said something different, let's see the results of the actual trial, due in a few days

7.3% is the number from the most current trial. Swedish health authorities are planning weeky updates. 

Edited by MikeyIdea
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10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

i got the above from youtube search for "BBC Hardtalk Anders Tegnell"  see if i got it wrong

You need to update your expectations according to the latest numbers  from the latest official Swedish statistics, they are 7.3% 

Edited by MikeyIdea
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7 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Some good news about Sweden, this time from the Telegraph, a few day old though.

(I apologize if that was posted here already, I haven't seen it yet.)
 


Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/05/05/light-touch-sweden-suffers-smaller-growth-hit-coronavirus/

The first quarter, yes. That's because Sweden is further away from the epicentre and a month behind other countries in Europe 

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6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's from the fourth of April, too early to be accurate. Both German and Swedish tests show much lower percentages now

Edited by MikeyIdea
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2 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

True but what we do know is most other countries have sacrificed their economies causing mass unemployment and knock on deaths, i call that a failure

That is happening in Sweden too you know. Sweden isn't living on a planet by its own

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5 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

That is happening in Sweden too you know. Sweden isn't living on a planet by its own

Yes but like we've said already, GDP reduction is expected to be less impacted plus they haven't spaffed 100s of billions up the wall paying people to have a holiday at home. That money could have been spent on hospitals etc.

 

So you don't see the economic argument against all these lockdowns?

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24 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Try again, and maybe use a little more time. You may want to read the article you link to or even the link text. That is from 1 town that was especially hard hit with the virus, hardly the same as all of Germany.

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1 minute ago, farang51 said:

Try again, and maybe use a little more time. You may want to read the article you link to or even the link text. That is from 1 town that was especially hard hit with the virus, hardly the same as all of Germany.

You don't understand how it works, apparently they sample a smaller population to try to work out the impact on the whole population. No one said it was the whole of Germany

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5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

So you don't see the economic argument against all these lockdowns?

The difference in expected GDP is hardly noticeable. However, there is one aspect of the economy I haven't seen mentioned anywhere; they will save a lot of pensions for old people in the coming years.

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Just now, scubascuba3 said:

You don't understand how it works, apparently they sample a smaller population to try to work out the impact on the whole population. No one said it was the whole of Germany

No, they sampled that town because it was hit especially hard.

 

Correct, you didn't say it, you wrote it: "Even Germany had 15% in their trial." Had you written "Even Germany had 15% in their trial in a small town that was especially hard hit" then I wouldn't have asked you for a link.

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2 minutes ago, farang51 said:

No, they sampled that town because it was hit especially hard.

 

Correct, you didn't say it, you wrote it: "Even Germany had 15% in their trial." Had you written "Even Germany had 15% in their trial in a small town that was especially hard hit" then I wouldn't have asked you for a link.

Many countries are doing these type of trials, most people know what that means,  you didn't, fair enough, move on

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1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yes but like we've said already, GDP reduction is expected to be less impacted plus they haven't spaffed 100s of billions up the wall paying people to have a holiday at home. That money could have been spent on hospitals etc.

 

So you don't see the economic argument against all these lockdowns?

If we take into consideration the time perspective, probably only to a small amount.

 

Look at the infected and deaths per population graphs for Europe, other countries (except the UK) go down pretty steeply and are looking quite good, Sweden only has a very slight decline.

 

Norway, Finland and Denmark have already said that they will not open their borders to Sweden when they open to other countries in the EU. The Swedish government's response was a bit quiet, we hope they won't descriminate... But its not a question of that, its just common sense. It's about risk, nothing else.

 

Sweden will hurt longer than other countries in Europe (except the UK) for sure.

 

 

Edited by MikeyIdea
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58 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I like Tegnell as well, he is a hero because he stood up against a majority and stood firm and he has prevailed.

 

You can certainly say that Sweden has succeeded. A look at their mortality figure, 0.039 of the population having passed, mostly older people, this shows that their policy has succeded in avoiding coronapocalypse, which so many had wished onto Sweden a few weeks ago because they dared not to impose mandatory lockdowns.  Sweden has been a success, even if their mortality would double or triple, the figure is still miniscule. Therefore Sweden was correct. Avoiding mandatory lockdown is preferable, their economic benefits are clear, and the death rate can be kept low regardlesss. So Sweden was correct.

 

Sure, they made a few mistakes such as neglecting care homes, but every single country, including the UK with its Gestapo lockdown made that mistake. They could have tested more and their figures would have been on the Norway and Finland level. 

 

Still, overall Sweden's policy has been a success. Nobody can deny it and be taken seriously. 

 

 

This is not a one size fits all situation. Different strategies can work, South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand and others including Vietnam have also done well so far.

 

Also lockdowns appear to work for some countries that have left it too late for other measures or who have localized outbreaks that they do not want to export to other countries or other area's within their own countries. Based on risk assessments then decisions need to be made on a case by case basis on which particular strategy should be used.

 

I'm not a staunch advocate of any one model yet until all the evidence is out there in many months to come, its not numbers to me, its peoples lives no matter how old they are. The scientists and governments are experimenting, I'm sitting on the fence watching for the most positive outcomes that can be said to have stood the test of time.

 

That said the impacts of severe lockdowns are devastating in so many ways, its a tragic bitter pill that some countries may not have needed to take. Again only time will tell. 

 

I'm waiting for results from the immunity tests in Sweden before making further judgements on their approach as its clear this is their target.

Edited by Bkk Brian
typo
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3 hours ago, farang51 said:

The difference in expected GDP is hardly noticeable. However, there is one aspect of the economy I haven't seen mentioned anywhere; they will save a lot of pensions for old people in the coming years.

I haven't dared to mention it but I am glad you did. Sweden's original decision to not close down the country was purely economical. It's not only the pensions they don't have to pay out, elderly care costs 6 to 10 times more too. It's as simple as this: Elderly are not productive, they cost money for society.

 

It would have looked totally the opposite if this virus had hit the productive like the Spanish flu did. Problem is that they shot themselves in the foot. They called asymptomatic transmission "negligable" in the beginning, now they are quiet. 35% asymptomatic transmission according to CDCs latest estmate is a totally new ball game. They always said "stay at home directly when you get sick / Go home directly when you start to feel sick". I suppose they will say Stay at home a couple of days before you get sick next... Their strategy simply doesn't work with asymptomatic transmission. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Yes, interestingly we have seen no serious studies whatsoever of the impact of switching hospital services to focus on Covid19 at the expense of other illnesses and the cancellation of surgeries due to focusing on Covid19.

 

What was the real cost of Covid19 hysteria for the truly sick who had other illnesses?

Easy: It's exactly the same in Sweden. Everything that is not life threatening is closed down here too. 

 

Edited by MikeyIdea
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