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Sweden - is the rest of the world dumb, blind or worse ?


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3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How can it be under control when most are not immune to it, BECAUSE they have been locked up?

Worked out reasonably well in your home country, NZ. 

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11 minutes ago, Shaunduhpostman said:

Whatever you may think or not think of Sweden at least it seems to have grasped something that any caring, compassionate pandemic planners would take into account and that is that poverty kills and it kills at a much higher rate than COVID. I cannot remember the source, but you can definitely find it out there, I have heard it quoted several times in some more   informed, in-depth discussions on COVID that according to a 1984 US governmental agency study 80,000 people die in the US for every one point increase in the unemployment rate. Seeing as US unemployment is being projected to reach 30% during the COVID crisis, that is an increase from 3% so COVID solutions that completely ignore the effect of shutting down economies can look at death rates jumping around 10 times from what it would be normally. So using that yardstick, for the US, if unemployment reaches 33% you are looking at COVID lockdown= 2.4 million deaths. Sweden wins, it's not that hard either to grasp and it makes one wonder what the hell is actually going on that we have had economies shut down because of a corona virus, something that will have a trivial effect on the lives of any healthy person that it infects, you'll get a bad cold at worst.

Simple really, some countries are employing guidelines designed to inflate their recorded infections.  While other countries use totally different methods designed to hide their actual infection rate,  it's also possible that some countries aren't even testing at all. 

Edited by Heppinger
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23 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Worked out reasonably well in your home country, NZ. 

No idea what your point is.

It's not a factor at the moment because NZ is an island far away from everywhere else and the borders are closed with mandatory quarantine for any returning citizens. Probably few have immunity and if they open the borders it would likely start again.

For sure we can stay closed till and if a vaccine comes available, but how possible is that for years and years?

certainly hasn't worked at all well for the economy, though if immigrants are not allowed in there might actually be enough jobs for most and house prices might come down, both of which would be a good result.

 

Far as I understand Australia did as well as NZ regarding deaths and didn't go all out lockdown crazy.

Edited by thaibeachlovers
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6 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

That is why there are so many death people, mostly old and with deficient immune systems

by your comments one has to assume you are not (yet) on that group.... once (and IF) you get there wonder if you will still speak/writing the same way

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3 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:
5 hours ago, simple1 said:

Sweden's per capita death rate from Covid-19 is among the highest in the world,


A strong argument for Sweden's model, as it is showing that all the lockdowns did not help to get the current death rate under Swedens.

 

Which part of highest in the world is it that you didn't understand?

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3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You do know Sweden only tests people already in the intensive care ward?

That may have been true at one point (I can't say for sure as I don't have a source to confirm or deny that) but it's certainly not true now.

 

According the Public Health Agency of Sweden they have been testing people out in the community since April.

 

Quote

The Public Health Agency is doing a survey in Stockholm to assess the level of COVID-19 in the community. In early April, approximately 4000 people were asked if they wanted to participate by providing samples. Participation is voluntary.

This survey is one way of gathering information about the number of people in the community infected with COVID-19. 

Even in hospitals, they don't only test people in intensive care. From the same PHAS source:

 

Quote

 

Who should be tested for COVID-19?

The healthcare services in Sweden prioritise the following groups:

Hospitalised patients

Health or elderly care personnel with suspected COVID-19

PHAS - CoVid-19 testing

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9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems to me that there is a dramatic divide between TVF posters. On one side those that believe everything the government tells us, think lockdown is a great idea and accept if the economy is destroyed as long as a proportionately small number of people don't die, and that masks actually work- they think Sweden is wrong by not doing what every other western country is doing. On the other side are those of us that think the government is confused about what to do and is making it up as it goes along, think lockdown is a terrible economy killing idea and do not think masks work with a virus- we think Sweden has got it right.

I dunno I think masks work, but requires 80-90% compliance indoors in public places and in close crowds outdoors. I think the lockdown could be a potentially effective short term remedy, 2months+ max, for societies that didn't have proper measures in place to give them breathing space to develop a coherent plan-although Oz and NZ did very well with it. However, others did not implement lockdowns and did a bang up job as well because they used masks and other measure very well. I do think many governments are confused and destroying the economy with their long term lockdowns, which could give both long epidemics and economic depression; surprisingly this is occurring in a number of the more advanced and developed societies. I think there are some benefits to what Sweden is doing, but it seems to be different to what other societies did that didn't use lockdowns and kept the virus in check, and I am not certain about it. I don't see a one size fits all solution.

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2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Vietnam?  no deaths - why? because they very strictly quarantined the sick and let healthy people live their lives albeit with masks etc. No lockdown except if a case was found (only 300 nationally).

Laos too, where I live.  Only 19 cases (all imported AFAIK), zero deaths, but also strict lock-down for the past 4 - 5 weeks, masks required, temperature checks at the supermarket, all other shops except pharmacies and banks closed.  I know of no-one who has been ill/died from this Wuhan flu......

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4 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

And if you ask questions or criticize, then you're stamped off and silenced as conspiracy theorist. And Youtube and Twitter censor all opinions and facts which are not WHO/China approved. 

It started as "Lockdown to flatten the curve, so that the hospitals are not overwhelmed", and we all bought it. 

But meanwhile it changed on the quiet to "Lockdown forever, the new normal, at least till a vaccine is here". Sorry, that I do not buy anymore. Rejected.

So who do you pick to go back to work in a hazardous job and possible get covib, who do you pick to die. There are no good answers in this situation, but send every one out and there will be no one to take care of them. Chris Christy the world wind from New jersey would not answer who he wanted to die in his family. Talk is always cheap especially about death and dieing

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2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Vietnam?  no deaths - why? because they very strictly quarantined the sick and let healthy people live their lives albeit with masks etc. No lockdown except if a case was found (only 300 nationally).

And they quarantined and tested  everyone coming into the country  for 14 days. in a Goverment facility

Costs were mostly covered by the government, though accommodation was not necessarily luxurious. One woman who flew home from Australia - considering Vietnam a safer place to be - told BBC News Vietnamese that on their first night they had "only one mat, no pillows, no blankets" and one fan for the hot room.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52628283

Not sure if that would go  down well with TVF members

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