Non -o- Renewal Denied, No Change To My Situation.

[Tony Clifton]

My non O visa renewal was denied.

Married, same situation as the previous years, 400, 000 in the same BKK Bank account for the required period with a confirmation letter.

Reason given by the local immigration officer: ''Bangkok officer says the bank account doesn`t look reliable''

Now told I have to leave the country and come back and the years previously spent here will not count anymore for a permanent residency application.

My wife thinks the immigration officer dealing with us could be trying to pull in a few baht by giving us a hard time...

Is there any way to appeal this? Anywhere we can ask for an explanation or get someone to clarify the refusal?

[lopburi3]

The only thing I can think of is they did not see foreign deposits into the account and usage in the amount that would like to see during the year. I suspect they are doing there best to weed out any grandfather applications that they can. You could ask a law firm for assistance or if you can qualify with income change to that. You could also ask if there is anything else they would suggest and see if it confirms your wife's suspicions. Sunbelt Asia might be able to suggest other avenues.

[opalhort]

The only thing I can think of is they did not see foreign deposits into the account and usage in the amount that would like to see during the year. I suspect they are doing there best to weed out any grandfather applications that they can. You could ask a law firm for assistance or if you can qualify with income change to that. You could also ask if there is anything else they would suggest and see if it confirms your wife's suspicions. Sunbelt Asia might be able to suggest other avenues.

Hi lopburi,

could I run into a similar problem, especially because my account used shows no activity?

please see my original topic:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=116406

should I have all WP/income related papers with me just in case?

opalhort

[soundman]

My non O visa renewal was denied.

Married, same situation as the previous years, 400, 000 in the same BKK Bank account for the required period with a confirmation letter.

Reason given by the local immigration officer: ''Bangkok officer says the bank account doesn`t look reliable''

Now told I have to leave the country and come back and the years previously spent here will not count anymore for a permanent residency application.

My wife thinks the immigration officer dealing with us could be trying to pull in a few baht by giving us a hard time...

Is there any way to appeal this? Anywhere we can ask for an explanation or get someone to clarify the refusal?

Hey Tony,

Could you pls. clarify..

Did the immi. officer actually accept your application & send it off, & have it returned "denied" by Suan Plu, or did the officer just plain out refuse it, citing "Bkk won't accept this", after checking through all your supporting documents?

Would be grateful if you could let us know.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[lopburi3]

I would definitely try to submit the work permit/income proof in the case of no or little account activity.

[marshbags]

Question 1) for Tony

Which local office did you use please ?

Question 2) for Lopburi

Could fixed deposits come under this interpretation by any chance as i was going to open an additional account of this nature to offset them possibly refusing our joint acc. as being insufficient ( 400,000 times 2 ? )

Thanks in advance and hope you manage to sort it T. C.

marshbags

[lopburi3]

If you want to use your name I would make it a normal savings account for the marriage extension of stay. They have always been interested to monitor account activity for that type of extension. For retirement the fixed accounts have normally been OK.

[Naam]

If you want to use your name I would make it a normal savings account for the marriage extension of stay. They have always been interested to monitor account activity for that type of extension. For retirement the fixed accounts have normally been OK.

acceptance of my fixed account was refused (Pattaya Immigration) in january as there was no activity. fortunately i could provide the necessary documentation for my current account. adopting this stance might be quite a problem for those retirees who spend less than 800k a year.

[Tony Clifton]

My non O visa renewal was denied.

Married, same situation as the previous years, 400, 000 in the same BKK Bank account for the required period with a confirmation letter.

Reason given by the local immigration officer: ''Bangkok officer says the bank account doesn`t look reliable''

Now told I have to leave the country and come back and the years previously spent here will not count anymore for a permanent residency application.

My wife thinks the immigration officer dealing with us could be trying to pull in a few baht by giving us a hard time...

Is there any way to appeal this? Anywhere we can ask for an explanation or get someone to clarify the refusal?

Hey Tony,

Could you pls. clarify..

Did the immi. officer actually accept your application & send it off, & have it returned "denied" by Suan Plu, or did the officer just plain out refuse it, citing "Bkk won't accept this", after checking through all your supporting documents?

Would be grateful if you could let us know.

Cheers,

Soundman.

The officer who accepted my application is telling us that it was sent off to BKK and was returned "denied" by Suan Plu.

Latest news from this afternoon is that I still have to leave the country.

Question 1) for Tony

Which local office did you use please ?

Question 2) for Lopburi

Could fixed deposits come under this interpretation by any chance as i was going to open an additional account of this nature to offset them possibly refusing our joint acc. as being insufficient ( 400,000 times 2 ? )

Thanks in advance and hope you manage to sort it T. C.

marshbags

1- Samut Prakan office

What's the fuss with the bank account holding the 400, 000 baht, we opened it so we did not have to use our joint accountI'm thinking that they see no other activity in that account other than the money being deposited and withdrawn once the application procedure is over. I thought they didn't care that the money was used or not, and, what business is it of theirs what I do with my money when you look at the ridiculous interest rates offered here.

[lopburi3]

They have always been interested in flow of money in accounts as the visa was "support Thai wife" so you had to prove that support with money transfers and expenditures. How closely they checked varied but it was checked. If your other account can provide that documentation I would make copies and present that as added evidence in an attempt to change there opinion.

[dave111223]

Getting nervous reading this post as i have my renewal coming up next month :\

Can he get a 90 type O visa instead of a 1 year? (I thought i remembered reading this somewhere or am i crazy?)

[Naam]

I thought they didn't care that the money was used or not, and, what business is it of theirs what I do with my money when you look at the ridiculous interest rates offered here.

obviously a wrong assumption. when i applied for my first non-O and retiree visa the concerned parties made it quite clear to me that i/we were supposed to spend and replenish the 800k baht in any given year. i tried to use my fixed deposit account to facilitate the procedure (so i thought) but the opposite happened.

actually it is their business. i have been told that in a number of cases the 800k were borrowed from friends, shown on the account for visa purposes and then withdrawn and paid back. i was also told that some clever "investors" used to make a killing as far as yield is concerned by loaning out the required amount for two weeks charging 5 and even 10% "interest". this of course is not in the interest of the authorities and i am afraid that the regulations will become even much tighter in the future.

[Naam]

They have always been interested in flow of money in accounts as the visa was "support Thai wife" so you had to prove that support with money transfers and expenditures. How closely they checked varied but it was checked.

i think it's only logical to conclude that the same procedure applies to us retirees.

[Tony Clifton]

Uh oh, we figured out why the Suan Plu office turned it down. Looking again at the bank book, my wife, the household`s accountant, realized that the money hasn`t been in the account for the required period. it was deposited a bit too late. I`m trying to figure out how we got confused on the deposit and renewal dates...

[lopburi3]

In her defense I do not believe they have enforced the 3 month rule strictly yet so suspect the primary reason is that it looks like you are borrowing the money to make a deposit for renewal and then paying it out with no evidence of support. If you can provide the active account and it supports your bringing in funds and spending them believe it might be approved even if the three new three month rule was not met.

[Lite Beer]

They have always been interested in flow of money in accounts as the visa was "support Thai wife" so you had to prove that support with money transfers and expenditures. How closely they checked varied but it was checked.

i think it's only logical to conclude that the same procedure applies to us retirees.

By all acounts they do not seem to be worried about movement for the retirement extension.

My 800,000 was in a fixed interest account. They were more than happy.

[shoreditch]

Guys, I have a linked question. I am on a non-immigrant O (marriage) visa and am still on my first 3 months of the 4 * 3 month stage. We rent a property abroad and live on that income here: I just get cash out of the Thai ATM when I need it. Is this going to be a problem when I need to get the 1 year extension next year, and if so what should I do? I don't get enough each month to be worth wasting cash on a transfer fee (and earning 0 interest on what's left over that I don't spend), but it exceeds THB40,000 (income, that is). Any suggestions?

[Lite Beer]

Guys, I have a linked question. I am on a non-immigrant O (marriage) visa and am still on my first 3 months of the 4 * 3 month stage. We rent a property abroad and live on that income here: I just get cash out of the Thai ATM when I need it. Is this going to be a problem when I need to get the 1 year extension next year, and if so what should I do? I don't get enough each month to be worth wasting cash on a transfer fee (and earning 0 interest on what's left over that I don't spend), but it exceeds THB40,000 (income, that is). Any suggestions?

You will have to get a letter from your embassy confirning that you have 40,000 BAHT Monthly income.

[marshbags]

Uh oh, we figured out why the Suan Plu office turned it down. Looking again at the bank book, my wife, the household`s accountant, realized that the money hasn`t been in the account for the required period. it was deposited a bit too late. I`m trying to figure out how we got confused on the deposit and renewal dates...

Sorry to hear this T.C.

Is it possible to contact Sunbelt to see if they could help you out ?

Their status as lawyers along with their know reputation may go some way to impressing the point you made, dare i say it, an honest mistake due to a misunderstanding on the deposit dates.

They may be a bit more sympathetic with them making representation on your behalf / backing you up.

No matter how you progress from this point, you could at least sound them out and get their perspective on the situation, perhaps they could help you, if i may be allowed to offer this as a possible step forward.

Thanks for letting us ALL know the various additional information gleaned from your O.P. and hopefully making us aware of yet another point, to double check 3 months deposit deadline prior to our the annual visit.

Again i hope you can sort it out to your advantage to make it a win win situation all round

marshbags

Edited April 19, 2007 by marshbags

[Tony Clifton]

As told by the officer, we went back yesterday to get a 7 day extension stamp as we were told, yesterday was the last day, as of today I`m on overstay. Upon discussing the subject, other officers got involved and it seems they all had different opinions on what was happening. I still have to leave the country and return.

In the end, the conclusion was that, had we gone 2 days ago, I would have been awarded a review of the financial statement regarding the 400, 000 baht in the account. We also argued about the 7 days that were including the office being closed over the Songkran holidays and that the 7 days counting should be business days, that did not work.

According to my wife , who broke down in tears at one point, the officer has misled us on a few points. It also seems that others were aware of this in the office but the loss of face factor got even bigger when the subject was discussed higher up the chain.

Black money being asked up the chain was mentioned by my wife as being the source of the problem and the idea was quickly turned down by the officer.

They also phoned the Laos border to discuss our driving there and we heard the officer on the other end confirming a plane ticket must be purchased there, confirming that rumour. They all commented on the stupidity of that requirement and mentioned it surely was local a scam going on over there.

We now have to start filling documents all over again and go through the whole procedure once more.

We`re of to Singapore for a few days.

[Tony Clifton]

*Update*

Wife just called after discussing the matter with a lawyer. He clearly stated that the Songkran holidays should not count as business days and that we should contact (did, but had to leave a message) or head to my embassy (without appointment? ) today and discuss the matter there and see what they can do.

I guess I`ll have to leave in the end.

Note: The main reason why we`re still hanging on is the years already spent here will not count when applying for permanent residency, back to zero.

It`s a yearly pain where my wife has to take days off at work as they will not deal with me alone with a non -O- married.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[Naam]

They have always been interested in flow of money in accounts as the visa was "support Thai wife" so you had to prove that support with money transfers and expenditures. How closely they checked varied but it was checked.

i think it's only logical to conclude that the same procedure applies to us retirees.

By all acounts they do not seem to be worried about movement for the retirement extension.

My 800,000 was in a fixed interest account. They were more than happy.

to me it seems that each immigration office has or fabricates its own rules

[lopburi3]

Just to look at the brighter side the only years that mean anything for PR are the last three so you will have that again in relatively short order if you decide to pursue PR status. But without a high local income tax record do not believe the odds are good for success under present criteria. I do feel sorry for you wife as do not believe the three month rule was the critical factor.

[blizzard]

i think its just that immigration and the like dont know the rules, the real ones.

its not a matter of them trying to get balack money, imagine how mut they would ask for with so mut people working.

no wonder this country is so screwed up even the thais dont have faith in it. im assuming the misses is thai.

Edited April 20, 2007 by blizzard

[Krub]

I feel sorry for you as it seems you had all the necessary papers for a trouble free renewal.

Maybe next time give it more time and/or apply in San Phiu

Good luck in Singapore

[Tony Clifton]

It`s also a matter of no one wanting to step over anyone`s toes over there. We messed up, and they did as well. No hard feelings though as they`ve always been very helpful bunch and receptive in the past, my wife does get a lot of respect when she walks in, even I when I walk in alone for reporting.

We just got a call from someone who has a close contact way up at my Embassy and are waiting for more news. They apparently can help.

I`m actually feeling mostly helpless in such a situation, but my temper has been very cool so far, much more than when driving.

I find it sad the way things work, such inefficiency, unnecessary waste of immigration time, our time, embassy time in and out of the country, time at immigration counter in and out... money wasted on gas and transportation out and back into the country...mutliply all those hours and $$$ wasted by numerous others experiencing the same problems for a simple renewal.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[Krub]

It`s also a matter of no one wanting to step over anyone`s toes over there.

We just got a call from someone who has a close contact way up at my Embassy and are waiting for more news. They apparently can help.

I`m actually feeling helpless in such a situation, but my temper has been very cool so far, much more than when driving.

I find it sad the way things work, such inefficiency, unnecessary waste of immigration time, our time, embassy time in and out of the country, time at immigration counter in and out... money wasted on gas and transportation out and back into the country...mutliply all those hours and $$$ wasted by numerous others experiencing the same problems for a simple renewal.

I am not sure what your Embassy can do as it is not clear from your post what you expect from them.

[Tony Clifton]

Contacting the Embassy was suggested by a lawyer following the ''business days'' issue which he says is wrongly interpreted by the office staff who seem to have no understanding that closing down for holidays does not count as a business day.

I guess if we are lucky with the embassy, they may have contacts at Suan Plu and get things rolling again.

Wife has decided to have next week off work now so we can move around freely as things further develop.

I may have forgotten to mention previously that the money has been in the account by now for more than the required period, our original mistake.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[Krub]

Contacting the Embassy was suggested by a lawyer following the ''business days'' issue which he says is wrongly interpreted by the office staff who seem to have no understanding that closing down for holidays does not count as a business day.

I guess if we are lucky with the embassy, they may have contacts at Suan Plu and get things rolling again.

Wife has decided to have next week off work now so we can move around freely as things further develop.

I may have forgotten to mention previously that the money has been in the account by now for more than the required period, our original mistake.

Does it mean that maybe it would be worth it to go direct to San Phiu and plead your case if you have the money and account papers in order ?

There would be no need for them to loose face as it would be a new application ?

Or is it already too late ?

[LoveDaBlues]

They have always been interested in flow of money in accounts as the visa was "support Thai wife" so you had to prove that support with money transfers and expenditures. How closely they checked varied but it was checked.

i think it's only logical to conclude that the same procedure applies to us retirees.

By all acounts they do not seem to be worried about movement for the retirement extension.

My 800,000 was in a fixed interest account. They were more than happy.

to me it seems that each immigration office has or fabricates its own rules

My good Dr. Naam......you hadn't figured this out before?

Actually, it's not just each office but can be each individual. The luck of the draw! Let's play Renewal Roulette!

Last year I took my paperwork in on a Monday and was denied the extension. On Friday of the same week I submitted the SAME paperwork to a different imm. officer and presto! it was approved.

Nothing like making you sweat a bit......as if it's not hot enough here already!