Months before election, Trump finds himself at odds with most Americans' views

[elliss]

4 hours ago, mikebike said:

Interesting.

 

Can you explain how this crafting is accomplished?

 

       Crafting is  directly related to financial input .

          Nothing new .

       Oh , lets not forget the influence of Media controlled, fake news ...

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by elliss

[mikebike]

7 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

       Crafting is  directly related to financial input .

          Nothing new .

       Oh , lets not forget the influence of Media controlled, fake news ...

 

So how does the financial input affect the methodology? It is easy enough to check the methodology and maths of properly conducted polling.

[johnpetersen]

11 minutes ago, mikebike said:

So how does the financial input affect the methodology? It is easy enough to check the methodology and maths of properly conducted polling.

And of course there are independent statistical checks performed by sites such as fivethirtyeight.com. They rate pollsters based on their past performance. Here's their explanation of how they do it:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-updated-our-pollster-ratings-ahead-of-the-2020-general-election/

[nattaya09]

4 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Yes, even Fox News is in on the conspiracy:

 

Fox News Poll: Voters say yes to face masks, no to rallies

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-voters-say-yes-to-face-masks-no-to-rallies

 

Fox News Poll: Biden widens lead over Trump; Republicans enthusiastic, but fear motivates Dems

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-widens-lead-over-trump-republicans-enthusiastic-but-fear-motivates-dems
 

Fox News Poll: Biden leads Trump in Wisconsin

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-leads-trump-in-wisconsin

 

Fox News Poll: Biden-Trump tossup in Ohio, 82 percent approve of DeWine

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-trump-tossup-in-ohio-82-percent-approve-of-dewine

 

Fox News Poll: Biden ahead in Arizona, Kelly trouncing McSally in Senate race

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-biden-ahead-in-arizona-kelly-trouncing-mcsally-in-senate-race

Fox is no Trump cheerleader. Oh, their commentary personalities like Hannity and Ingraham are but the news side, Baier, Hume, Wallace all would have preferred to see any of the other 16 GOP candidates in 2016 win the nomination. Half the GOP in Congress don't like Trump. Most of the people that wind up voting for Trump won't be doing so because they like his persona. In fact, most are turned off by it but see a larger picture at stake

[johnpetersen]

19 minutes ago, nattaya09 said:

Fox is no Trump cheerleader. Oh, their commentary personalities like Hannity and Ingraham are but the news side, Baier, Hume, Wallace all would have preferred to see any of the other 16 GOP candidates in 2016 win the nomination. Half the GOP in Congress don't like Trump. Most of the people that wind up voting for Trump won't be doing so because they like his persona. In fact, most are turned off by it but see a larger picture at stake

Rupert Murdoch likes Trump a lot. Rupert Murdoch owns Fox News. You think whom his employees putatively support is relevant?  And Murdoch likes money even more:

Rupert Murdoch is on the cusp of his biggest win yet in his war against Google

 

The justice department, led by attorney general William Barr, is preparing to file an antitrust lawsuit against the company, according to a person familiar with the matter. News Corp representatives have met privately with the justice department about the investigation.

Last week, a trade group for news organisations that is chaired by a senior News Corp executive published a research paper outlining how Google has leveraged its dominance to take publishers’ content and drive traffic without compensating them under copyright laws. 

 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/rupert-murdoch-is-on-the-cusp-of-his-biggest-win-yet-in-his-war-against-google-1.4286229

 

And I've seen Baier and Hume in action. Your mindreading aside, they give an awfully good impression of being Trump fans. your  And most news reports from Fox featuring Trump  sound an awful lot like cheerleading for Trump. The reports about Biden, not so much.

Edited June 24, 2020 by johnpetersen

[earlinclaifornia]

18 hours ago, nattaya09 said:

Gone are the days when polls were used to gauge voter sentiment. Now they are crafted to influence voter behavior.

Best that you keep believing that.

[earlinclaifornia]

On 6/24/2020 at 4:06 AM, Opl said:

"Trump rambled about how well he did on a cognitive exam two years ago and even proposed challenging former Vice President Joe Biden to take the same test."

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/06/22/trump-wasted-an-entire-white-house-meeting-trying-to-convince-his-aides-that-hes-mentally-fit.html

trump will stay in desperation mode the rest of the way for sure. Hey why not his chance become more narrow every day. Next you will see those Republican who are likely to lose reelection change there tune

[earlinclaifornia]

On 6/23/2020 at 8:00 PM, johnpetersen said:

I guess from your perspective the Fox News Polls are also extremely left leaning since they back up the Reuters article.

Recently responding to a poster here who stated that his conservative polls were just the opposite of what we see everyday including Fox. I asked him to share them and silence was all, no response. 

[metisdead]

A troll post with insulting comment toward another member has been removed.  

[bendejo]

11 hours ago, nattaya09 said:

Baier, Hume, Wallace all would have preferred to see any of the other 16 GOP candidates in 2016 win the nomination. Half the GOP in Congress don't like Trump.

pssstttt!  DT is not really a Republican, and these Republicans you mentioned are not fooled.  But I certainly wouldn't consider the three guys I quoted as anti-DT just because they don't have that froth-at-the-mouth devotion like Pirro.

 

The one positive about DT is he is not an ideologue.  He is completely random, and is still the egocentric TV star who cares only about his image.  Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are just as random, but both have a better sense of politics, err, I just made myself ill typing that.  Rubio and Paul Ryan, on the other hand, have pre-fab ideologies ("we must do the Conservative thing...") and stuff like that scares me, politicians who serve a dogma that isn't even their own.  Can't recall the name, but the former governor of Wisconsin who got married on Ronnie Reagan's birthday, the one who suggested a Canadian border wall -- man!

 

 

[johnpetersen]

39 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Recently responding to a poster here who stated that his conservative polls were just the opposite of what we see everyday including Fox. I asked him to share them and silence was all, no response. 

Actually, the one the Trump administration currently likes and has used to question the dismal results most polls show is McLaughlin Associates. Fivethirtyeight.com gives them a rating of C/D.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/?ex_cid=irpromo

That's a really low rating.

[Jim1000]

Is it just my age or is Trump starting to look like a worn out 50's rocker ?

 

[Masterton]

13 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

And I've seen Baier and Hume in action. Your mindreading aside, they give an awfully good impression of being Trump fans. your  And most news reports from Fox featuring Trump  sound an awful lot like cheerleading for Trump. The reports about Biden, not so much.

 

Did it ever occur to you that most people like their country and want to see it succeed? People don't need to like Trump in order to like what he has done for the economy, jobs, trade, military, etc etc. Bair and Hume report and discuss actual news, it is not spun with deranged Pavlovian vitriol the way you are used to in the fake news Democrat media. They are not opinion hosts, they are actual journalists. I understand why their reporting must seem like "cheerleading for Trump" based on how the others act. As for Biden, there is simply nothing there to "cheerlead" about. He doesn't seem to know where he is half the time.

[johnpetersen]

2 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

Did it ever occur to you that most people like their country and want to see it succeed? People don't need to like Trump in order to like what he has done for the economy, jobs, trade, military, etc etc. Bair and Hume report and discuss actual news, it is not spun with deranged Pavlovian vitriol the way you are used to in the fake news Democrat media. They are not opinion hosts, they are actual journalists. I understand why their reporting must seem like "cheerleading for Trump" based on how the others act. As for Biden, there is simply nothing there to "cheerlead" about. He doesn't seem to know where he is half the time.

First off, you should take up your argument about Hume and Baier with nattaya09. He actually characterized them as being anti-Trump. 

 

It's true that there was a huge increase in spending under Trump and that definitely did stimulate the economy. I remember when Obama proposed a spending increase in the wake of the Great Recession. Republicans were unanimously opposed. Instead when the economy had come out of the recession they supported  greatly increased deficit spending. Hypocrites, no? Keynes could have predicted the stimulative effect. Although he would have been against it for obvious reasons.

 

As analysis of his Trump's tax cuts showed, most of the money saved by businesses went into stock buybacks. (Before the Reagan era, stock buybacks were actually against the law because they were rightfully considered stock price manipulation.) In fact after a small surge business investment actually declined and manufacturing  went into a slump. 

[bendejo]

30 minutes ago, Jim1000 said:

Is it just my age or is Trump starting to look like a worn out 50's rocker ?

 

C'mon, he was able to drink out of glass with one hand last Saturday.  Rumor is in Phoenix he'll prove he can eat with a fork. 

It's a metamorphosis: first the press called him The Donald, then in 2015 he became the ever-insulting Don Rickles.  Now it looks like he's going off the edge, and I'm waiting for him to blow one of his fits in front of the cameras, like Donald Duck.

 

We've been wondering if there ever will be a real Howard Beale for 45 years, but I don't think many expected it would be the POTUS.

 

 

[Masterton]

6 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

First off, you should take up your argument about Hume and Baier with nattaya09. He actually characterized them as being anti-Trump.

 

Not really, the gist of Nattaya09's post was to point out that Fox News, despite what most pro Democrat  activists have been brainwashed to believe, are not all "pro Trump", "Trump fans", "Trump Cheerleaders", "Trump State Media" etc etc. I am not going to respond to the economic analysis you provided as I am not expert enough in that field to debate you on the matter. However, I have seen different economists with 180 degree opposing views on these topics depending on what channel happens to be on at the time. So there's that...

[johnpetersen]

15 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

Not really, the gist of Nattaya09's post was to point out that Fox News, despite what most pro Democrat  activists have been brainwashed to believe, are not all "pro Trump", "Trump fans", "Trump Cheerleaders", "Trump State Media" etc etc. I am not going to respond to the economic analysis you provided as I am not expert enough in that field to debate you on the matter. However, I have seen different economists with 180 degree opposing views on these topics depending on what channel happens to be on at the time. So there's that...

If you know so little about economics - and this is extremely basic stuff - then how can you credit Trump for the increasing growth during his term? You simply don't know nearly enough. Economists universally agree that deficit spending has a short term stimulative effect on the economy. Where they disagree is whether that's a good thing in the long or medium run. 

 

As for Nattaya, he didn't accept Fox News Poll results because to his way of thinking most of Fox wasn't impartial. 

[candide]

33 minutes ago, bendejo said:

C'mon, he was able to drink out of glass with one hand last Saturday.  Rumor is in Phoenix he'll prove he can eat with a fork. 

It's a metamorphosis: first the press called him The Donald, then in 2015 he became the ever-insulting Don Rickles.  Now it looks like he's going off the edge, and I'm waiting for him to blow one of his fits in front of the cameras, like Donald Duck.

 

We've been wondering if there ever will be a real Howard Beale for 45 years, but I don't think many expected it would be the POTUS.

 

 

OMG! This election is going to look like am horror movie: the fight between the Zombie and the Mummy!

Well, at least, the Mummy seems to be able to hold a coherent and structured speech.

[Masterton]

3 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

If you know so little about economics - and this is extremely basic stuff - then how can you credit Trump for the increasing growth during his term? You simply don't know nearly enough. Economists universally agree that deficit spending has a short term stimulative effect on the economy. Where they disagree is whether that's a good thing in the long or medium run. 

 

As for Nattaya, he didn't accept Fox News Poll results because to his way of thinking most of Fox wasn't impartial. 

 

No, I am not going to be baited into a debate with you on this matter. I already explained that I am not an expert on this topic enough to be drawn into a whole detailed discussion on deficit spending and the stimulative effects thereof. You can disagree all you like on whether Trump has helped the economy or not, it is not relevant. But record high stock market, record low unemployment, millions off foodstamps etc etc happened with Trump in office. And the original point I was making anyway, was that people in general did not have to like Trump personally to be happy with what he has accomplished during his first term, whatever the things they are happy about may be. The economy was just an example of that, I was not making any particular case for it. 

[johnpetersen]

1 minute ago, Masterton said:

 

No, I am not going to be baited into a debate with you on this matter. I already explained that I am not an expert on this topic enough to be drawn into a whole detailed discussion on deficit spending and the stimulative effects thereof. You can disagree all you like on whether Trump has helped the economy or not, it is not relevant. But record high stock market, record low unemployment, millions off foodstamps etc etc happened with Trump in office. And the original point I was making anyway, was that people in general did not have to like Trump personally to be happy with what he has accomplished during his first term, whatever the things they are happy about may be. The economy was just an example of that, I was not making any particular case for it. 

But the topic is Trump finds himself at odds with most American's views. Not whether they are happy with what he has accomplished. And even the Fox News Polls support that the majority don't agree with him about most things.

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, Masterton said:

 

Did it ever occur to you that most people like their country and want to see it succeed? People don't need to like Trump in order to like what he has done for the economy, jobs, trade, military, etc etc. Bair and Hume report and discuss actual news, it is not spun with deranged Pavlovian vitriol the way you are used to in the fake news Democrat media.

Most Americans can see Trump for what he is, a lying, incompetent, corrupt, racist fool.  But if you want to discuss the economy, fine.  Trump inherited a strong, healthy Obama economy and juiced it up a bit with massive corporate tax cuts for the wealthy.  This mostly helped the stock market, but it put our budget deep in the red.  Trade?  Not the tariff king.  Military?  More red in the budget without a corresponding increase in readiness.  On top of that, the US is an embarrassment internationally, Trump is destroying the environment, failed at managing COVID, and is dividing the country further along racial lines.  In short, Trump has been a complete failure as President.  

[Masterton]

6 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

But the topic is Trump finds himself at odds with most American's views. Not whether they are happy with what he has accomplished. And even the Fox News Polls support that the majority don't agree with him about most things.

 

Yes but you are over simplifying it. This is an evolving discussion and the comment about people being happy with what Trump may or may not have accomplished was in direct response to a comment about people not liking Trump, the point of which was to illustrate that not liking Trump was not necessarily an indicator of whether or not people would support him or vote for him. I just re-read the OP Reuters article, it is basically a political op-ed hit job on Trump containing conflation and lies and totally based on one of their own polls which we have no idea who the polling sample consisted of and what questions were actually asked. You need to read deeper than the headline, sometimes things aren't what they seem.

[Masterton]

7 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Most Americans can see Trump for what he is, a lying, incompetent, corrupt, racist fool.  But if you want to discuss the economy, fine.  Trump inherited a strong, healthy Obama economy and juiced it up a bit with massive corporate tax cuts for the wealthy.  This mostly helped the stock market, but it put our budget deep in the red.  Trade?  Not the tariff king.  Military?  More red in the budget without a corresponding increase in readiness.  On top of that, the US is an embarrassment internationally, Trump is destroying the environment, failed at managing COVID, and is dividing the country further along racial lines.  In short, Trump has been a complete failure as President.  

 

False. You are just regurgitating nonsensical Democrat talking points propagated by the fake news media. These are not your opinions, you are just repeating <deleted> you have heard elsewhere and are willing to believe it because it corresponds with your political agenda and/or personal dislike of Donald Trump before he became president. The fact that you believe the Obama economy was "strong and healthy" alone show you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no point in even trying to discuss with you as your mind is already made up and sealed shut. Good day sir.

[Opl]

51 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

No, I am not going to be baited into a debate with you on this matter. I already explained that I am not an expert on this topic enough to be drawn into a whole detailed discussion on deficit spending and the stimulative effects thereof. You can disagree all you like on whether Trump has helped the economy or not, it is not relevant. But record high stock market, record low unemployment, millions off foodstamps etc etc happened with Trump in office. And the original point I was making anyway, was that people in general did not have to like Trump personally to be happy with what he has accomplished during his first term, whatever the things they are happy about may be. The economy was just an example of that, I was not making any particular case for it. 

did Trump inherite the 2008 financial "mess" Obama had to deal with?

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/9-charts-comparing-trump-economy-to-obama-bush-administrations-2019-9-1028833119#unemployment-shot-up-dramatically-during-the-financial-crisis-at-the-end-of-george-w-bush-s-and-the-start-of-barack-obama-s-terms-before-steadily-dropping-for-most-of-the-decade-2

 

"When you compare the last three years of Obama’s Presidency vs. Trump’s first three years, Trump’s deficits will be almost $1 trillion greater at $2.47 trillion to $1.51 trillion for Obama. It doesn’t look like Trump’s tax cuts will pay for themselves."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2020/02/01/trumps-deficits-are-racing-past-obamas/#3ffcda5c4819

Edited June 25, 2020 by Opl

[johnpetersen]

40 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

Yes but you are over simplifying it. This is an evolving discussion and the comment about people being happy with what Trump may or may not have accomplished was in direct response to a comment about people not liking Trump, the point of which was to illustrate that not liking Trump was not necessarily an indicator of whether or not people would support him or vote for him. I just re-read the OP Reuters article, it is basically a political op-ed hit job on Trump containing conflation and lies and totally based on one of their own polls which we have no idea who the polling sample consisted of and what questions were actually asked. You need to read deeper than the headline, sometimes things aren't what they seem.

But their poll is largely in agreement with other polls. With Fox polls, too.

 

48 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

False. You are just regurgitating nonsensical Democrat talking points propagated by the fake news media. These are not your opinions, you are just repeating <deleted> you have heard elsewhere and are willing to believe it because it corresponds with your political agenda and/or personal dislike of Donald Trump before he became president. The fact that you believe the Obama economy was "strong and healthy" alone show you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no point in even trying to discuss with you as your mind is already made up and sealed shut. Good day sir.

On the one hand you claim to know little about economics, but on the other you deny that the economy under Obama was strong and healthy. And you're accusing Berkshire of regurgitating talking points?

[Phoenix Rising]

59 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

False. You are just regurgitating nonsensical Democrat talking points propagated by the fake news media.

While you OTOH are gathering facts from all available sources and on the basis of that form objective and informed opinions.

Riiiiiiight..........

[Masterton]

27 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

While you OTOH are gathering facts from all available sources and on the basis of that form objective and informed opinions.

Riiiiiiight..........

 

Correctamundo. I form objective and informed viewpoints based on facts. Maybe you should try it sometime, you might be surprised what you learn. ????

[Berkshire]

40 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

Correctamundo. I form objective and informed viewpoints based on facts. Maybe you should try it sometime, you might be surprised what you learn. ????

Total BS.  As evident in your posts, you clearly have an aversion to facts.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Berkshire

[johnpetersen]

1 hour ago, Masterton said:

 

Correctamundo. I form objective and informed viewpoints based on facts. Maybe you should try it sometime, you might be surprised what you learn. ????

And yet you so rarely offer any facts to support your contentions. You just claim that they're based on them.

[candide]

2 hours ago, Masterton said:

 

False. You are just regurgitating nonsensical Democrat talking points propagated by the fake news media. These are not your opinions, you are just repeating <deleted> you have heard elsewhere and are willing to believe it because it corresponds with your political agenda and/or personal dislike of Donald Trump before he became president. The fact that you believe the Obama economy was "strong and healthy" alone show you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no point in even trying to discuss with you as your mind is already made up and sealed shut. Good day sir.

It seems you are confusing opinions with facts. Facts are widely available (for ex. In the tradingeconomiics website). See also a summary in the link below:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45827430

So it is fact that the US economy enjoyed sustained growth, unemployment decrease, etc...during Obama's tenure. Trump did not perform better in terms of GDP growth and yearly unemployment decrease (see link above)

It is fact that Trump increased deficit and debt increase more than Obama during his last term (without taking into account the debt increase due to the coronavirus crisis).

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

It is fact that a significant share of tax cuts have been used to buy back shares and hence artificially increase Stock prices.

https://apnews.com/438fae12f9204b1fbd8e8b1985ae554f

Improved trade? What a joke. Trade deficit increased during Trump's tenure.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0015.html