What could cause electric to double in kwh used for the month?

[brianthainess]

11 hours ago, Hal65 said:

I took a look at the meter today and 8 kwh (units) of usage in a single day, down from the 13 or so daily average of last month but still higher than the 4-5 it should normally be at.

 

Also we can see the meter is spinning way faster than the meters of the adjacent two units. A walk around confirmed almost nothing was on in my apartment at the time it was spinning so fast.

 

My landlord called for an electrician to come tomorrow to inspect the source of the problem.

So you still haven't turned of EVERYTHING including the fridge, THEN check the meter, a simple deduction would then involve turning on one item at a time, get a friend to help.

If your in an apartment then i doubt this will apply, but i had a very high bill one time and discovered it was a faulty water pump 200mt away running flat out 24/7. I also had a fridge once with a faulty thermostat. As others have posted water heater if you have one, could be the prob. 

[Hal65]

18 hours after the installation of a new outlet on the suspect, 11 more units of electric were used.

 

The meter was spinning insanely fast. To be fair, I had a high wattage kitchen appliance going.

 

We turned off all electrical items except the fridge and other things that were on some sort of standby mode. The meter went to a snail's pace but in my estimation even that was excessive.

 

The Thais turned on me here and started blaming my usage. I pointed out we walked the unit together and there was little to no usage. So why was the meter still spinning as it was?

 

They agreed to replace the meter tomorrow.

 

---

I think something is multiplying the electrical output.

 

I also noticed getting a bit of a buzz when using my laptop. And I can't leave it on my lap anymore; it stings a bit.

 

Anyone know what those signs point to? It just feels like the apartment is putting out more electric than it should.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Hal65

[bankruatsteve]

7 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

I also noticed getting a bit of a buzz when using my laptop. And I can't leave it on my lap anymore; it stings a bit.

Indication of no ground (earth).  If you have 3-prong plug on your laptop AND 3-hole receptacle then there might not actually be ground running to the receptacle.  If either plug or receptacle is 2-pin then you aren't getting ground and not much you can do about it except re-wire.  Did that just start happening or has it always been like that?

 

Did an electrician visit or just your landlord?  Try to get electrician to give you amps usage with nothing on but the fridge.  And then with normal stuff turned on.  Watching the meter spin isn't the best way to measure that.

 

It could be the meter but it also could be something that has changed in the last month.  ??

[Hal65]

@bankruatsteve

 

1. Nothing about my usage has gone up since last month. My AC usage has gone down substantially from the March to May period.

 

2. Both the laptop charger and the power strip have a ground prong. The wall outlet does not though. Based on what you said, there is no ground then. This is a new thing, though it started when i moved my laptop setup from one area to another.

 

3. Another Thai came. I'm not sure enough to say he was an electrician but I see no obvious issues with his work.

 

4. Nothing else was changed in the last month.

 

5. Can a cheap voltometer get me the amps usage? If so that would be a better bet than the scheduling and language difficulty of working with a Thai electrician that my landlord would have to request/approve.

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, Hal65 said:

2. Both the laptop charger and the power strip have a ground prong. The wall outlet does not though. Based on what you said, there is no ground then. This is a new thing, though it started when i moved my laptop setup from one area to another.

Yup - no ground at the outlet.  Probably no ground in the power strip either if that has 2-prong plug.  Do you have other outlets in your apt. that take 3-prong?  Guessing you don't have "Safe-T-Cut" (RCD) protection either.  No ground + no RCD = Not Safe

 

6 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

5. Can a cheap voltometer get me the amps usage? If so that would be a better bet than the scheduling and language difficulty of working with a Thai electrician that my landlord would have to request/approve.

No.  That needs a "clamp-on" ammeter.  Something any decent electrician would have in his kit.

 

[Hal65]

New meter was installed. Already I can tell usage is still way too high. I spent an hour testing every single item in the apartment. The short story is that everything contributes to the usage, it's just higher across the board than before.

 

I've told the landlord to notify me when the adjacent room moves out. I'll test that room probably next month. 

 

I showed the landlord the last 4 months of bills and he acknowledges it is weird the electric suddenly doubled last month. But he still leans towards it being my usage.

 

Frankly this whole thing has thoroughly confused me as well.

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, Hal65 said:

New meter was installed. Already I can tell usage is still way too high. I spent an hour testing every single item in the apartment. The short story is that everything contributes to the usage, it's just higher across the board than before.

 

I've told the landlord to notify me when the adjacent room moves out. I'll test that room probably next month. 

 

I showed the landlord the last 4 months of bills and he acknowledges it is weird the electric suddenly doubled last month. But he still leans towards it being my usage.

 

Frankly this whole thing has thoroughly confused me as well.

If the electric bill is a concern for you (And it seems it is)

you should maybe try to find a location where the bills are factured

at the normal public price of 4 bahts\unit

 

[Hal65]

2 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

If the electric bill is a concern for you (And it seems it is)

you should maybe try to find a location where the bills are factured

at the normal public price of 4 bahts\unit

 

I've probably visited 50 apartments in Pattaya and the lowest i've ever heard for electric was 6/unit. 7 sometimes, 8 to 9 most often.

 

I do hear condo owners offer the government rate but of course condos tend to be higher tier buildings.

[Oldie]

My meter started to jump from 99 to 200 instead to 100 and so on. Luckily I checked it often when I moved into my new condo. After complaining at the PEA it got replaced the next day by a new one. 

[johng]

18 hours ago, Hal65 said:

I'll test that room probably next month. 

    why go to the hassle of moving to another apartment...find the breaker for your current apartment and turn it off then go check if the meter is still running,if not running then with the help of a friend turn on every appliance individually until a "culprit" can be seen that makes the meter spin fast.

 

You might have to check the meter (with your breaker off) a couple of times during the day/night as if someone is "borrowing" your electricity they maybe only doing it at certain times for example to run their airconditioner during the night.

 

If you keep a big bucket  in case of water outages  check  the water heater/ shower make sure to fully turn off the water heater before filling the bucket as even on "low" ( not even warm)

setting  some heaters use a lot of power.

[Hal65]

@johng If I turn everything off in the apartment the meter basically stops. So it is consuming electric somewhat in line with expectation. The difference is just it's consuming twice as much as before for some reason. I can't be sure but I suspect something about the wiring is causing it to pull more current under a load (electrical items turned on)

[bankruatsteve]

Did you ever find the breaker box?  That's usually the best place to test with an ammeter and could verify or dispel your suspicion. 

 

Edit:  And confirm your earth and RCD situation.

Edited July 15, 2020 by bankruatsteve

[Hal65]

@bankruatsteve Yes, they appear to have several breakers (one on each floor) as they had to flip it to shut off power during the outlet install, and then the meter install.

 

I don't want to flip it though as if I get it wrong I cause create a liability. Also just being a tenant I probably don't have the right to flip it anyways. 

 

Doing an item by item check confirmed what I was looking for anyways.

 

The somewhat good news was only 7.5 units used since yesterday. That usage is still on the high side but short of the astronomical 12/day of the previous month.

 

Two changes were made:

 

1. The new meter was installed

2. I stopped using the suspect outlet, and also an adjacent outlet to the suspect which also previously had low usage.

 

It appears something is up with those two outlets. They seem to pull more current for some reason. 

 

This is my preliminary hunch. In 1-2 more days I should know for sure.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Hal65

[bankruatsteve]

Ooh kay

 

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, Hal65 said:

It appears something is up with those two outlets. They seem to pull more current for some reason. 

 

I'm trying to think of a wiring error / fault that would cause your symptoms.

 

If that extra energy is real it's going somewhere, it won't just vanish into the ether.

 

 

EDIT How about this:-

 

The meter is wired incorrectly with L and N reversed. This would not normally cause a problem but it puts the current sense winding in the neutral.

 

Some of the existing outlets are wired with N - E swapped.

 

Everything works ok, but some outlets don't spin the meter. The current doesn't go through the current-sense winding, returning instead via the ground connection (if the building is TN-S or TNC-S then the N-E link will be on the hot side of the meter).

 

The new outlets are correctly wired and run the meter correctly so it appear that they are causing high readings.

 

A bit contrived, but I have seen both errors in the past (meter reversals are common and the A/C in our condo was wired L-E).

 

Of course, if this is the problem and the sparks fixes it our OP will start getting correct usage bills which he may not like ????

 

 

[Hal65]

@Crossy Turns out my theory was wrong as I no longer used those two suspect outlets, but usage since yesterday was 11 units, still almost double what it should be.

 

I literally have 2 fans running and a computer + monitor. And the computer is a laptop which is normally more power efficient by design.

 

Sometimes I cook but that should be a trivial usage. 

 

AC is on 1 hour/day to vent heat accumulation.

 

Maybe the fridge has gone bad? I don't hear it running any more than before.

 

Anyways the only remaining option is to move to the unit next door. Unit is bigger so the rent goes up by 500 baht. That is still less than the 1,400 extra I am paying for electric at the current rate.

 

If usage stays high in this new unit I think we can fairly say it's one of my devices that is causing a higher usage. In order of suspects it could be

 

1. Laptop

2. Monitor

3. Fridge

4. AC

5. One of the fans

6. Maybe an oddball devices like phone charger, router.

 

There's not a lot of suspects since my apartment is small so I should be able to find the cause. Fingers crossed that the move alleviates the issue

[Metropolitian]

It could possibly your fridge.

I looked in the previous pages, and one thing I noticed is that you didn't try to turn off the fridge during testing.

 

Turn off your fridge for one day and come back with the meter results.

 

Another possibility that I was thinking is that you are looking at the wrong meter, 10 units is about the usage of the hallways and stairways lights and elevator at the service apartment where I lived in years ago.

But I read that your meter was slowing down upon testing, and eventually got replaced, so time to look at your space.

The fridge.

 

Tell us the outcome.

 

 

[Hal65]

1 hour ago, Metropolitian said:

It could possibly your fridge.

I looked in the previous pages, and one thing I noticed is that you didn't try to turn off the fridge during testing.

 

Turn off your fridge for one day and come back with the meter results.

 

Another possibility that I was thinking is that you are looking at the wrong meter, 10 units is about the usage of the hallways and stairways lights and elevator at the service apartment where I lived in years ago.

But I read that your meter was slowing down upon testing, and eventually got replaced, so time to look at your space.

The fridge.

 

Tell us the outcome.

 

Well, I would say if it slows to barely moving with everything else turned off, the fridge was already tested.

 

I know that answer will frustrate the highly detailed types but the goal isn't to get the meter to stop dead, it's to figure out why it's spinning so much as things are added.

 

My hypothesis is the wiring has degraded. I'm planning on a move to the neighboring unit.

 

If still too high I know that one of my appliances has gone bad. Possibly laptop, laptop charger, monitor, fans, AC, or a lesser used/weaker current item.

[Metropolitian]

7 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

 

Well, I would say if it slows to barely moving with everything else turned off, the fridge was already tested.

 

I know that answer will frustrate the highly detailed types but the goal isn't to get the meter to stop dead, it's to figure out why it's spinning so much as things are added.

 

My hypothesis is the wiring has degraded. I'm planning on a move to the neighboring unit.

 

If still too high I know that one of my appliances has gone bad. Possibly laptop, laptop charger, monitor, fans, AC, or a lesser used/weaker current item.

 

 

If with everything 'normal' connected, eg. the aircon only one hour and watching tv / laptop.

All that, with only the fridge turned off.

And tomorrow the used units is still around the 11 , then we can say the fridge is 'okay'.

Maybe the fridge is one of the appliances that has gone bad...

 

A fridge has a start-stop-start-stop pattern, one that goes bad can be start and not stopping for 'rest'. Which uses way more energy over time.

 

[Metropolitian]

Maybe we need to look to a different view. The usage of now is the 'new normal' and before it was a 'faulty calculations'.

We can try to help you calculate the average usage if you can give us a list of all the appliances and how long you are using them.

That means, we need to know how many watts they are using, product names and type numbers would help us.

[Hal65]

@MetropolitianYou are right about the fridge. damn. now i have to figure out how to isolate its effect alone while still being able to use my computer. 

 

Maybe unplugging it at night is the answer?

 

Regarding your second suggestion, here is my usage per suspect:

 

15 hours per day

Laptop computer 

Lenovo G767

* also powers an external keyboard and mouse through USB. Both are cheap generics

 

15 hours per day

24" 1200p monitor

Dell U2410F

 

23 hours per day

Hatari 18" fan

 

23 hours per day

Hatari 10" fan

 

1 hour per day

Imariflex 20" fan

 

24 hours per day

Medium fridge (common apartment size)

Haier brand, "2001" in big letters on peelable label

 

24 hours per day

True Gigaflex modem/router

 

24 hours per day

6 cheap power strips

 

24 hours per day

1 power adapter for AC to power strip connection

 

1 hour per day*

12,000 BTU portable air conditioner

Natural Brand

*sometimes up to 4-5 when I forget to turn it off, happens maybe 3x per month

 

10 hours per day

Slow cooker

HANABISHI Slow Cooker 235W 2.5L HSC-235

 

40 minutes per day

1,300w air fryer

Electric Intelligent Air Fryer หม้อทอดไฟฟ้าไร้น้ำมันเพื่อสุขภาพ ขนาด 2.5 ลิตร/1300W

 

[Metropolitian]

6 hours ago, Hal65 said:

@MetropolitianYou are right about the fridge. damn. now i have to figure out how to isolate its effect alone while still being able to use my computer. 

 

Maybe unplugging it at night is the answer?

 

Regarding your second suggestion, here is my usage per suspect:

 

<...cut... >

 

Well... check the calculation and the result...

 

[Metropolitian]

 ^^^ These are 'worst case scenario'  , eg the appliances running on the highest settings and full power for the adapters.

 

It is still possible that the average would be around 8-10 units / day and the fridge using a little bit more then he used to.

 

Is the fridge yours?  I've rented a service apartment years ago, which included bed table and fridge. My bill were high, and the fridge was the problem. Got it changed by the apartment owners and my bill lowered drastically.

[Hal65]

Yes, it looks accurate. I wonder what caused the usage spike then. Maybe a prior outlet was not being counted before but is now?