19 hours ago, petermik said:

"uncle" P will take some shifting from his lofty perch unfortunately...he really believes no one is more qualified to run the country than himself...????

Sure... and there may be other high influences keeping him there.

5 hours ago, edwinchester said:

You're definitely a member alright.

Come to our village where incomes and livelihoods have been decimated by your hero's policies and find out what the vast majority of the working population think of him.

Another poster who lives amongst and supports the impoverished rural poor.

 

For my benefit, can you please tell me what exactly what policies this government has enacted that has decimated the incomes and livelihoods of your neighbours because I personally can't identify them?

 

And you guys can give me sad emoji's all day long if that's the extent of your debating skills, the question stands.

 

Edited July 17, 20205 yr by Trillian

29 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Another poster who lives amongst and supports the impoverished rural poor.

 

For my benefit, can you please tell me what exactly what policies this government has enacted that has decimated the incomes and livelihoods of your neighbours because I personally can't identify them?

 

And you guys can give me sad emoji's all day long if that's the extent of your debating skills, the question stands.

 

The shut down of provinces, and closures of bars and restaurants, the policies where establishments must meet certain requirements as far as spacing in order to open.  I could add a few more but these have kept people from working.  My GF had to rent a larger space to employ her 4 stylists and allow for pedicure and manicures to be done with the proper social distancing and screens added.  Many shops could not afford to do this and never have re-opened.  Take a look at the upper floors in the MBK mall, the upper beauty floor at the Union Mall at Phahonyothin.  Then tell me how policies have not affected the local people.

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The shut down of provinces, and closures of bars and restaurants, the policies where establishments must meet certain requirements as far as spacing in order to open.  I could add a few more but these have kept people from working.  My GF had to rent a larger space to employ her 4 stylists and allow for pedicure and manicures to be done with the proper social distancing and screens added.  Many shops could not afford to do this and never have re-opened.  Take a look at the upper floors in the MBK mall, the upper beauty floor at the Union Mall at Phahonyothin.  Then tell me how policies have not affected the local people.

Right...so these policies are all to do with the government's handling of the covid19 crisis, is that the case? If that's true the best I can offer is that sometimes things happens and it could be  a lot lot worse, some of them could have died from the virus. But please, let's not turn this into yet another virus thread, when that posters said policies I imagined he was referring to economic policies that pertained to the topic of the thread, not that it was covid19 related.

 

40 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Another poster who lives amongst and supports the impoverished rural poor.

 

For my benefit, can you please tell me what exactly what policies this government has enacted that has decimated the incomes and livelihoods of your neighbours because I personally can't identify them?

 

And you guys can give me sad emoji's all day long if that's the extent of your debating skills, the question stands.

 

The number of poor living in poverty has increased more than 30%, economic growth is lagging all its regional competitors, minimum wage increased a paltry 25bht since the junta came to power.

All the Govt has done is make the poor poorer and the rich richer. There has been no policies to provide extra well paying jobs rather a few cash handouts that do nothing to improve overall incomes.

Education is in a dreadful state so the same sorry state of low quality low paid jobs looks set to continue for at least another generation.

8 minutes ago, edwinchester said:

The number of poor living in poverty has increased more than 30%, economic growth is lagging all its regional competitors, minimum wage increased a paltry 25bht since the junta came to power.

All the Govt has done is make the poor poorer and the rich richer. There has been no policies to provide extra well paying jobs rather a few cash handouts that do nothing to improve overall incomes.

Education is in a dreadful state so the same sorry state of low quality low paid jobs looks set to continue for at least another generation.

That's not quite true, the middle classes in Thailand have grown hugely from 9 million to over 49 million in the past three decades, that out of a population of 70 million, according to The World Bank, all of that has taken place over the past three decades.

 

Yes, minimum wage remains low but there again so does inflation which has averaged under 1% for years. And agricultural subsidies have increased in the past five years faster than at any time previously, as has small local lending facilities for rural farmers.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews/seven-million-thai-farmers-receive-subsidies-303191

 

On 7/16/2020 at 4:35 PM, Dumbastheycome said:

Unfortunate  but  necessary?  So did they walk or were they pushed?

probably like anywhere else in the world, if you don't support the team then get out ...

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

Another poster who lives amongst and supports the impoverished rural poor.

 

For my benefit, can you please tell me what exactly what policies this government has enacted that has decimated the incomes and livelihoods of your neighbours because I personally can't identify them?

 

And you guys can give me sad emoji's all day long if that's the extent of your debating skills, the question stands.

 

There is a small factory in the big village near to me in rural Khampaeng Phet that used to employ about 100 women that closed in March and has not reopened yet. There are a few shops and even the Vet have closed down. The local markets don.t have so many customers lately. A good friend who is a masseuse has been out of work for 3 months, and is staying with a friend who does have a job and living on friendship.

All of this is in a few small villages in rural Thailand where I live. Repeat that for hundreds of other villages across rural Thailand, and yes the is a big problem in Thailand.

 

Just because YOU cannot see them doesn't mean that they aren't there.

And I still didn't get an answer to my question, which policies?

1 hour ago, Trillian said:

For my benefit, can you please tell me what exactly what policies this government has enacted that has decimated the incomes and livelihoods of your neighbours because I personally can't identify

 

This was answered in post #35

 

Your reply was to talk about the middle classes, in your post #36

 

I live in Issan, & I see the poor people struggling even more.

 

Many of the farmers were given 5000 baht: Wow!

 

Should they "eat cake"?

 

Ok, na?

Just now, billd766 said:

There is a small factory in the big village near to me in rural Khampaeng Phet that used to employ about 100 women that closed in March and has not reopened yet. There are a few shops and even the Vet have closed down. The local markets don.t have so many customers lately. A good friend who is a masseuse has been out of work for 3 months, and is staying with a friend who does have a job and living on friendship.

All of this is in a few small villages in rural Thailand where I live. Repeat that for hundreds of other villages across rural Thailand, and yes the is a big problem in Thailand.

 

Just because YOU cannot see them doesn't mean that they aren't there.

I'm not interested in things resulting from the covid19 response, I'm interested to know what government economic policies have caused rural poverty the earlier poster described.

4 minutes ago, Trillian said:

I'm not interested in things resulting from the covid19 response, I'm interested to know what government economic policies have caused rural poverty the earlier poster described.

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/governments-economic-policies-favour-big-corporations-pita/

28 minutes ago, Trillian said:

That's not quite true, the middle classes in Thailand have grown hugely from 9 million to over 49 million in the past three decades, that out of a population of 70 million, according to The World Bank, all of that has taken place over the past three decades.

 

Yes, minimum wage remains low but there again so does inflation which has averaged under 1% for years. And agricultural subsidies have increased in the past five years faster than at any time previously, as has small local lending facilities for rural farmers.

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/thailandnews/seven-million-thai-farmers-receive-subsidies-303191

 

So if we take 49 million from 70 million that would be children under 18 and elderly people as well that would mean that everyone in Thailand is now middle class with a middle class job and a middle class income and nobody has lost their middle class job.

 

Even the farmers are now middle class. My wife has some land that she rents out for about 800 baht per Rai per year, and the farmer who was renting it can't afford to pay the rent this year. He must be one of those middle class farmers then.

28 minutes ago, Trillian said:

I'm not interested in things resulting from the covid19 response, I'm interested to know what government economic policies have caused rural poverty the earlier poster described.

But nobody cares what you are interested in. Most of us care about Thailand and the poor people that this government has abandoned in favour of the rich and powerful. Many of the rich could afford to lose 50 or 100 million baht and not even notice it. To most of the Thai people even 1 million baht is more than they would earn in perhaps 8 or 9 years.  

 

Edited July 17, 20205 yr by billd766
Predictive mid spelling

1 hour ago, faraday said:

 

This was answered in post #35

 

Your reply was to talk about the middle classes, in your post #36

 

I live in Issan, & I see the poor people struggling even more.

 

Many of the farmers were given 5000 baht: Wow!

 

Should they "eat cake"?

 

Ok, na?

 

1 hour ago, faraday said:

 

This was answered in post #35

 

Your reply was to talk about the middle classes, in your post #36

 

I live in Issan, & I see the poor people struggling even more.

 

Many of the farmers were given 5000 baht: Wow!

 

Should they "eat cake"?

 

Ok, na?

No it wasn't answered! the claim is that the government has made the rural poor even more poor, presumably by their economic policies, I've asked the question three times now, what policies? It's a simple enough question but posters want to keep bleating on about this and that and nobody has answered the question, if you can't just say so.

1 hour ago, faraday said:

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/governments-economic-policies-favour-big-corporations-pita/

Says one MP....right!

some guys here would like to give you the right answers but maybe the admin would not be very happy about this.

Yup, we're all in this together; no wonder you made the paranoia thread concerning confused emojis, or whatever it was.

 

????

 

If I get this right: some of you guys live amongst people who are very poor and you feel sorry for them. You want someone to blame for their plight so you've decided to make government economics policies the scapegoat which somehow has miraculously impoverished some rural people but not others! When asked to describe what those policies are you can't! 

 

Some farmers have received 5k gifts which is the same as citizens in the official workforce, the amount is 50% of the local wage but some posters think this is not enough, even though the crops are still growing and the sales price of those crops is subsidised by government in most cases. Once again, government policies are to blame.

 

Citizens who were not in the workforce and did not make social security payments did not receive the 5k x 3 month handout, this is because those people don't pay SSc, don't pay tax and work cash in hand. At least one poster thinks this is unfair.

 

I think I get the picture!

 

I think you don't

On 7/16/2020 at 3:59 PM, petermik said:

"uncle" P will take some shifting from his lofty perch unfortunately...he really believes no one is more qualified to run the country than himself...????

He did stage a coup, which speaks to his confidence that no one is better for the job. In most civilized countries that would be treason.

 

On 7/16/2020 at 4:07 PM, steven100 said:

New cabinet to be announced soon Khun Prayut Chan O Cha will do what needs to be done. 

Somkid Jatusripitak was one of the better one's in that group however I don't think our PM is too concerned as it's his hard work, dedication and decision making that has moved the country forward over the past 6 years. He is our leader and he is doing the job as required. 

LOL> isn't there a pub and entertainment forum for jokes? Let's hope you were joking about YOUR PM.

46 minutes ago, faraday said:

I think you don't

I shall add this to my list of stet TVF answers by the herd:

 

The Baht is too strong - forget what FOREX says, THB is being manipulated by the elites;

The covid response is inappropriate - never mind the low death toll, it's government's fault;

GDP growth is too low - it's not the trade war or the global economy, it's government's fault;

Crop prices are too low - it's government's fault;

Some rural people are impoverished - it's the fault of government policies.

 

 

Now I know who our former poster Saengd has become. Welcome back as Trillian.

On 7/16/2020 at 10:07 AM, steven100 said:

New cabinet to be announced soon Khun Prayut Chan O Cha will do what needs to be done. 

Somkid Jatusripitak was one of the better one's in that group however I don't think our PM is too concerned as it's his hard work, dedication and decision making that has moved the country forward over the past 6 years. He is our leader and he is doing the job as required. 

 

Are you Thai or a Thai citizen? If not, how is he your leader?

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Now I know who our former poster Saengd has become. Welcome back as Trillian.

It's fascinating that two (now three) posters have said something very similar, I'm not sure if that's an honor or a slur but I'm not going to dwell on it. What I would say to you is, more often than not, a thing is what it appears to be rather than what you would like it to be. It's probably better for your mental well being if you focus on economics rather than on who a person might be that's writing posts!

Why they had to leave?

 

39 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Why they had to leave?

 

Political pressure from other parties, criticism of the poor performance of the economy. Resurrecting the economy is a process that takes time and it doesn't matter who is in charge it can't be done overnight hence it's a perfect political opportunity to score points.

To lose one cabinet member, Mr. Prayuth, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose three looks like carelessness.

24 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet you forget the majority of the information is from those gainfully employed and reporting income.  There is a very large percentage of this population that lives on a daily wage where there are no taxes or SS taken out and it is cash under the table.  These are the people who the government has left out of any meaningful assistance be it from handouts or policies.  Policies for income equality and then reporting those employed need to be fixed so that just a policy of a daily minimum wage is not left up in the air.  Many households have maids, housekeepers, drivers and such, do you think that this income is reported either by the employer or by the individuals and where will you find the documentation if you believe so.  I know it is a lot to digest Trillian, but Stats can be manipulated and only show those that are actively gainfully employed and reported as such.

There is a regulated and an unregulated employment market in Thailand and the unregulated segment is about 60% of the total. There's an interesting report that I'll try to locate and post that talks about these things. The unregulated segment is as you suggest, cash in hand and doesn't pay taxes or Social Security (SSc) although there is nothing to prevent those people from making the THB 432 per month that would give them SSc coverage which would also give them medical  insurance. But they don't, they take the money and run during the good times and in the bad times they stand there with their hand out, such as now.

 

As I say on my about me page I work part time for an NGO/charity that supports young adult females, many of them have been earning upwards of 30k per month cash in hand but didn't pay tax or SSc. When they come to grief and we get sight of them they have no benefits to fall back on, that's why we always tell them to find that 432 baht per month from somewhere each month and that it's a priority, most don't think it's a priority but it is.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Please see the ILO link below, section 6.7 refers to informal employment which is what I call unregulated:

 

https://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---asia/---ro-bangkok/documents/publication/wcms_205099.pdf

 

I forgot to add, the numbers from the unregulated market are included in the stats, it's not as though the government doesn't know about them, they feature in most statistical data.

Edited July 18, 20205 yr by Trillian

34 minutes ago, Trillian said:

There is a regulated and an unregulated employment market in Thailand and the unregulated segment is about 60% of the total. There's an interesting report that I'll try to locate and post that talks about these things. The unregulated segment is as you suggest, cash in hand and doesn't pay taxes or Social Security (SSc) although there is nothing to prevent those people from making the THB 432 per month that would give them SSc coverage which would also give them medical  insurance. But they don't, they take the money and run during the good times and in the bad times they stand there with their hand out, such as now.

 

As I say on my about me page I work part time for an NGO/charity that supports young adult females, many of them have been earning upwards of 30k per month cash in hand but didn't pay tax or SSc. When they come to grief and we get sight of them they have no benefits to fall back on, that's why we always tell them to find that 432 baht per month from somewhere each month and that it's a priority, most don't think it's a priority but it is.

 

Are those young adult female earning 30,000 baht a month, but not paying tax or contributing to social security, middle class?

Have to state that it must be a little embarrassing for you being "On secondment for two years to the finance and economics policy unit of a global financial institution" but being found to be playing fast and loose with figures when you should know better. No excuse for your quoting figures that have been extrapolated from a Facebook poll.

Still waiting for the World Bank report that you promised.

There is no shame in admitting that you have got it wrong. But there is shame in knowing that you are wrong, but carrying on with arguing knowing that you are wrong.

Edited July 18, 20205 yr by Eindhoven