Diplomat refused accommodation at a condominium is not an Estonian envoy

[khunjeff]

18 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Yes, the immunity doesn't normally extend to the "normal" earthlings working at embassies. Usually only ambassadors and other top tier. Of course anybody with a diplomatic plate will try their luck.

It depends how you define "normal earthlings" and "top tier". Local staff at embassies don't have immunity, other than some limited functional immunity when performing official functions inside the embassy, and designated adminstrative and technical staff only have "official acts" immunity, meaning they can't be prosecuted for anything connected to their duties, but are not immune for things they do in a personal capacity. Accredited diplomatic staff - which might include only a few people at the top, or virtually the whole staff, depending on the policies of the sending and receiving countries - have complete immunity.

[Bob A Kneale]

13 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

14 hours ago, Bob A Kneale said:

His condo destination was quarantine accommodation arranged for him by the Embassy as it is permitted to do.  He did not have "free will" to go anywhere.

Oh that's  ok  then .

Of course, "that's ok", how would being quarantined and not having the free will to go anywhere not be ok?   

[Dumbastheycome]

20 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

Of course, "that's ok", how would being quarantined and not having the free will to go anywhere not be ok?   

You have  successfully  confused me with that reply !

Although no more  so than  "Mr. Veerachai said in his Facebook post today that EU, as well as Estonian diplomats, must strictly comply with the regulations imposed by the CCSA, related to the COVID-19 pandemic, adding that his office does not have any information about the entry of EU diplomats into Thailand and, therefore, could not interfere with EU affairs, as the diplomat in question is the EU’s responsibility."

So Diplomats  are subject  to CCSA regulations but the Thai regulatory authorities  do not  know when a "Diplomat"  enters Thailand? Would  knowing being an interference to the  EU ?

Said  Diplomat in question is refused entry to an Condo which is  apparently  not an approved  quarantine location. (Alone?)

Given that another  breach of  practical regulations caused a scare which led to include Diplomats being subject to those  regulations then said  Diplomats  should  demonstrate  the diplomacy of compliance!

That under international conventions a Diplomat is immune to such things as liability  for killing someone as in a car accident the potential for mass damage is not quite the same as spreading a  viral infection , is it?

 

 

 

[Bob A Kneale]

2 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Diplomat in question is refused entry to an Condo which is  apparently  not an approved  quarantine location

What makes you say that the Embassy-organised condo was not an approved quarantine location for a Diplomat?  He was refused entry by the condo management based on other residents' subjective Covid fears, not by Thai authorities.

[Baerboxer]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:42 AM, Grumpy John said:

One rule for everyone.  How bloddy hard is that.   I am guessing some of the silver tails in diplomatic service thing their kie don't stink...but you and I may beg to differ! 

Indeed. Notably an EU official - clearly someone who thinks they tell others what to do but do as they please. 

[Dumbastheycome]

30 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

What makes you say that the Embassy-organised condo was not an approved quarantine location for a Diplomat?  He was refused entry by the condo management based on other residents' subjective Covid fears, not by Thai authorities.

If it was a  quarantine location the other residents would be there subjected to  same conditions and have no grounds  for objection, or not? Is it for an Embassy to over rule the specified regulatory requirements of a host Nation by assumed  virtue of Diplomatic Immunity?

 

[Bob A Kneale]

3 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

4 hours ago, Bob A Kneale said:

What makes you say that the Embassy-organised condo was not an approved quarantine location for a Diplomat?  He was refused entry by the condo management based on other residents' subjective Covid fears, not by Thai authorities.

If it was a  quarantine location the other residents would be there subjected to  same conditions and have no grounds  for objection, or not? Is it for an Embassy to over rule the specified regulatory requirements of a host Nation by assumed  virtue of Diplomatic Immunity?

 

"If it was a  quarantine location the other residents would be there subjected to  same conditions and have no grounds  for objection, or not?"

No, the other residents were not being quarantined!   It's a condo building, not a commune, the envoy would have been confined to his own condo which, according to the prevailing regulations, was approved for diplomatic use.   The condo management's capitulation to the demands of every other occupier in the building just made sense.

 

"Is it for an Embassy to over rule the specified regulatory requirements of a host Nation by assumed  virtue of Diplomatic Immunity?"

No, it's not but the Embassy was not over-ruling anything, neither was it asserting diplomatic immunity.  There were/are special arrangements for quarantine locations for returning diplomats agreed to by the government.

[Dumbastheycome]

4 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

"If it was a  quarantine location the other residents would be there subjected to  same conditions and have no grounds  for objection, or not?"

No, the other residents were not being quarantined!   It's a condo building, not a commune, the envoy would have been confined to his own condo which, according to the prevailing regulations, was approved for diplomatic use.   The condo management's capitulation to the demands of every other occupier in the building just made sense.

 

"Is it for an Embassy to over rule the specified regulatory requirements of a host Nation by assumed  virtue of Diplomatic Immunity?"

No, it's not but the Embassy was not over-ruling anything, neither was it asserting diplomatic immunity.  There were/are special arrangements for quarantine locations for returning diplomats agreed to by the government.

"There were/are special arrangements for quarantine locations for returning diplomats agreed to by the government. "

So this Condo was indisputedly one of these specially arranged locations?

[kingofthemountain]

23 minutes ago, Bob A Kneale said:

"If it was a  quarantine location the other residents would be there subjected to  same conditions and have no grounds  for objection, or not?"

No, the other residents were not being quarantined!   It's a condo building, not a commune, the envoy would have been confined to his own condo which, according to the prevailing regulations, was approved for diplomatic use.   The condo management's capitulation to the demands of every other occupier in the building just made sense.

 

"Is it for an Embassy to over rule the specified regulatory requirements of a host Nation by assumed  virtue of Diplomatic Immunity?"

No, it's not but the Embassy was not over-ruling anything, neither was it asserting diplomatic immunity.  There were/are special arrangements for quarantine locations for returning diplomats agreed to by the government.

So how he can go in his condo without using the commune parts of the building?

(The lift or stairs) 

And how were organised the meals? The food let on a chair in the corridor?

i don't even think how he was coming from the airport to the condo

taxi? bus? mrt? 

[Hayduke]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:01 AM, kingofthemountain said:

...from now on, all foreign diplomats and their families entering Thailand will be subjected to 14-day quarantine at state facilities, without exemption.''

 

Right....as if the 'without exemptions' actually means...'without exemptions'..

 

Can you imagine what would happen to the Immigration Officer who insisted on stopping a Chinese diplomatic passport holder and...subjecting...him to an involuntary 14 day quarantine imprisonment? 

 

The offending IO would likely see a 50 year course of quarantined attitude adjustment.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Hayduke

[kingofthemountain]

3 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

 

Right....as if that's actually the case.

 

Can you imagine what would happen to some Immigration Officer who insisted on stopping a Chinese diplomatic passport holder and...subjecting...him to an involuntary 14 day imprisonment? 

 

The offending IO would likely see a 50 year course of attitude adjustment.

 

 

 

Ok now imagine this Chinese diplomatic passeport holder spray the covid virus in Thailand

and at the end of the year the count is 1 million deaths. What could happens to the non offending

IO who has not insisted on stopping the chinese? Do you think he should have a promotion?

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, Hayduke said:

 

Right....as if that's actually the case.

 

Can you imagine what would happen to some Immigration Officer who insisted on stopping a Chinese diplomatic passport holder and...subjecting...him to an involuntary 14 day imprisonment? 

 

The offending IO would likely see a 50 year course of attitude adjustment.

 

 

 

But then again a Diplomat would probably be  most likely  to  be requested at Thailand's expense to quarantine in a 5 star hotel and if excursions were permitted would be subject to  monitoring location wise.

Not quite the same  situation  as  slipping off  to a  condo with no  supervision or  even the approval of the other residents. Does the approval of Thai authorities for that does  also imply the rights of  the other occupants of the  condo are of no consequence in favour of brown nosing some  Diplomat??

 

[Tarteso]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:58 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's not forget that diplomats all over the world and do a lot of things which normal people can't do because they have diplomatic immunity. 

And that is the same for all diplomats all over the world. What would happen if Thailand would start to treat diplomats like common people? We can be pretty sure the diplomats won't like it. And we can be pretty sure that Thai diplomats in other countries would end up with negative reactions.

It's difficult!

I think what is needed are some nice diplomatic arrangements to smooth things out. I am sure treating diplomats like ordinary people just won't work. They wont accept it and because they are diplomats they would get away with it.

Let's be diplomatic with those diplomats. 

You should get from IO a Diplomatic Visa with immunity.

[Hayduke]

5 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Not quite the same  situation  as  slipping off  to a  condo with no  supervision or  even the approval of the other residents. Does the approval of Thai authorities for that does  also imply the rights of  the other occupants of the  condo are of no consequence in favour of brown nosing some  Diplomat??

 

Yes...it directly implies that the rights of ordinary condo occupants are of no consequence to this government if it means potentially angering...China. Not Estonia, but...but China.

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

2 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

 

Yes...it directly implies that the rights of ordinary condo occupants are of no consequence to this government if it means potentially angering...China. Not Estonia, but...but China.

 

 

Not at all sure how you find a tangible plausible link to China  but  up to  you !

[Hayduke]

20 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Not at all sure how you find a tangible plausible link to China  but  up to  you !

 

Okay...what it means is that this government will never do....anything...that could potentially anger some countries....particularly and especially China. Which only means that the 'without exemption' part of the CCSA statement....doesn't really mean 'without exemption'. It means 'sometimes without exemption' and China is an example of when...it...will...not...apply. China does whatever it wants in Thailand. 

 

 

[Bob A Kneale]

1 hour ago, kingofthemountain said:

1 hour ago, Bob A Kneale said:

"If it was a  quarantine location the other residents would be there subjected to  same conditions and have no grounds  for objection, or not?"

No, the other residents were not being quarantined!   It's a condo building, not a commune, the envoy would have been confined to his own condo which, according to the prevailing regulations, was approved for diplomatic use.   The condo management's capitulation to the demands of every other occupier in the building just made sense.

 

"Is it for an Embassy to over rule the specified regulatory requirements of a host Nation by assumed  virtue of Diplomatic Immunity?"

No, it's not but the Embassy was not over-ruling anything, neither was it asserting diplomatic immunity.  There were/are special arrangements for quarantine locations for returning diplomats agreed to by the government.

So how he can go in his condo without using the commune parts of the building?

(The lift or stairs) 

And how were organised the meals? The food let on a chair in the corridor?

i don't even think how he was coming from the airport to the condo

taxi? bus? mrt? 

"So how he can go in his condo without using the commune parts of the building?"

The same way that anyone entering any quarantine facility does initially, in this case, presumably, by using the lift.

 

"And how were organised the meals? The food let on a chair in the corridor?"

Maybe, but I'd guess that either they were prepared in the condo or that they were delivered.  How do you think meals in any other quarantine facility are accessed?  Maybe you think that those in quarantine don't eat for 14 days?

 

"i don't even think how he was coming from the airport to the condo taxi? bus? mrt?"

How do you think?  How about in a Diplomatic vehicle?  He's a Diplomat going to compulsory quarantine accommodation, arranged by his Embassy, do you really think that Diplomat's are likely to have to use taxis, buses or the MRT?  Jesus...

Edited July 20, 2020 by Bob A Kneale

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Bob A Kneale said:

"So how he can go in his condo without using the commune parts of the building?"

The same way that anyone entering any quarantine facility does initially, in this case, presumably, by using the lift.

 

"And how were organised the meals? The food let on a chair in the corridor?"

Maybe, but I'd guess that either they were prepared in the condo or that they were delivered.  How do you think meals in any other quarantine facility are accessed?  Maybe you think that those in quarantine don't eat for 14 days?

 

"i don't even think how he was coming from the airport to the condo taxi? bus? mrt?"

How do you think?  How about in a Diplomatic vehicle?  He's a Diplomat going to compulsory quarantine accommodation, arranged by his Embassy, do you really think that Diplomat's are likely to have to use taxis, buses or the MRT?  Jesus...

ok obviously you are on your idea

 

i have really to explain to you the difference between a quarantine facility building

where ALL the people inside are quarantined and a classic condo where nobody is

quarantined except the diplomat?

You still don't see the problem with the use of the commune areas?

As you said, Jesus....

''Presumely by using the lift'' mmm ok what could go wrong?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/woman-china-infects-71-lift-elevator-coronavirus-a4496996.html

 

And yes in other quarantine facility the meals are let on a chair in the corridor

in front of each room, and all the rooms are occuped by people in quarantine

how does this work in a classic building?

 

A diplomatic vehicle? Not so sure one is used for a random member

the european union isn't a country, the delegation here has a small budget

and unfortunately they sold the Delegation's Volvo for 300 000  bahts

they have few used glasses still for sale also....

https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/area/jobs-funds_en

Edited July 20, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Bob A Kneale]

16 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

ok obviously you are on your idea

 

i have really to explain to you the difference between a quarantine facility building

where ALL the people inside are quarantined and a classic condo where nobody is

quarantined except the diplomat?

You still don't see the problem with the use of the commune areas?

As you said, Jesus....

''Presumely by using the lift'' mmm ok what could go wrong?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/woman-china-infects-71-lift-elevator-coronavirus-a4496996.html

 

And yes in other quarantine facility the meals are let on a chair in the corridor

in front of each room, and all the rooms are occuped by people in quarantine

how does this work in a classic building?

 

A diplomatic vehicle? Not so sure one is used for a random member

the european union isn't a country, the delegation here has a small budget

and unfortunately they sold the Delegation's Volvo for 300 000  bahts

they have few used glasses still for sale also....

https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/thailand/area/jobs-funds_en

Someone needs to make you understand that not all quarantine facilities are mass facilities!  Incoming diplomats have specific, authorised arrangements such as this one was supposed to be, until the management refused him entry, whether you are aware, or approve, of them or not. 

 

You don't think that the diplomat in this case would be able to have meals prepared in his condo?  Perhaps the arrangement was for meals to be delivered and/or left outside his door.

 

He would have been confined to the condo during the quarantine period, he would not have been using the communal areas!

 

There is zero chance that a diplomat arriving here to be taken to quarantine would be allowed to do that unaccompanied by taxi, bus or by MRT.  He would have been collected at the airport, in an official vehicle, that's just how it works for diplomats, whether you understand that or not.

[sirocco]

1 / this apartment was not in his name
2 / he had not been tested on his arrival in Bangkok
3 / and despite the negative test, at the condo, he had to join one of the hotels listed by the COVID-19 committee
And currently, he is in "14 days" in a large hotel