Gulf Of Thailand Won't Rise With Global Warming, Expert Claims

[JetsetBkk]

I'm afraid that says it all.

Your 'says it all' URL redirects to a dictionary page on the word 'indoctrinate'.

Am I indoctrinating anyone by mentioning I attended the first Earth Day event?

<snip>

I think you know what I'm saying - that you have been indoctrinated.

Are you actually saying it is wrong to care about the planet, human beings, and life in general?

No.

If so, you are a waste of sperm.<snip>

When you've lost the argument, throw an insult. Keep it up, JR.

[brahmburgers]

In addition, there are lot very smart people that are trying to find alternate to carbon based energy, hopefully one of them will find something,......

They have been finding some very cool things since at least the 1960's when the first Whole Earth Catalog came out in Oakland California. It took Asia several decades to even begin learning about some of those innovations from way back then, such as solar panels, solar hot water pre-heat systems.

Currently, there are viable alternatives to coal and gas and nuclear - some projects are are currently supplying power at decent rates. Improvements, increased efficiencies, lower costs are coming along month by month.

EGAT, who are doing a full court press to get nuclear for Thailand, either don't know, or don't want to know about current developments in clean electricity generation options.

I agree most environmental activities need to be done on local levels, but there are some issues that are larger scale. For example, when Saddam Hussein ordered all the Kuwaiti oil fields torched (a man-made contribution to acid rain/global warming, if ever there was one), he affected the environment for hundreds of miles downwind, including several other countries.

If Pakistan and India have a nuclear blow-out, such downwind countries as Thailand will suffer consequences.

[toptuan]

Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology. has just made another pronouncement in light of a development in popular culture. His pronouncement as follows:

Thailand will also be excluded from any events portrayed by the movie "2012" should those events become reality. It is somehow connected with the fact that Thailand is the center of the known universe.

[nisakiman]

JR, you really do yourself no favours with this repetetive BIG OIL stuff. It's just lunatic fringe conspiracy theory. Nobody is taking you seriously mate.

You seem unable to grasp that if scientific opinion is very much divided on AGW, then the science is not settled.

You seem to think that only those climate experts who agree with your blinkered view of AGW should be listened to, and the huge numbers of climate scientists who dispute the current orthodoxy are wrong.

On what premise do you base this assumption?

Some time earlier in this thread, I posted a link for you, but you obviously didn't look at it, so I shall post it again, in the hope that you look at it this time.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...5d-6e2d71db52d9

And no, it's not a BIG OIL website, it's the website of the US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works.

I know it doesn't support your pet theory, but JR, sometimes we have to be grown-up about these things, and accept that there are other valid opinions.

[toptuan]

JR, you really do yourself no favours with this repetetive BIG OIL stuff. It's just lunatic fringe conspiracy theory. Nobody is taking you seriously mate.....

....I know it doesn't support your pet theory, but JR, sometimes we have to be grown-up about these things, and accept that there are other valid opinions.

I know JR personally, and you've nailed him, big time.

[JR Texas]

Well........that was an interesting bunch of BS. Now, back to the science of climate change........anybody see a trend:

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Some time earlier in this thread, I posted a link for you, but you obviously didn't look at it, so I shall post it again, in the hope that you look at it this time.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...5d-6e2d71db52d9

<snip>

Your link is dodgy - here's a good one:

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus...5d-6e2d71db52d9

I'm sure if JR ever read this from the Senate report, he'd go apoplectic:

The chorus of skeptical scientific voices grow louder in 2008 and 2009 as a steady stream

of peer-reviewed studies, analyses, real world data and inconvenient developments

challenged the UN’s and former Vice President Al Gore's claims that the "science is

settled" and there is a "consensus."

[RickBradford]

Trend?

It's all in how you manipulate the data, of course.

[JR Texas]

Trend?

It's all in how you manipulate the data, of course.

Thanks for that link to the climatedepot.com. It reminded me of The Inquirer version of "science."

I did not see any science there, only BIG OIL propaganda coming from a radical-right-wing-lunatic element in society.

The site was sort of funny.........almost like a popular tabloid. Clearly it is designed to tap into emotion and avoid anything resembling science and reason.

It is amazing that people believe such crap. Even more amazing given that if you believe it you participate in self-exploitation.

Most humans avoid pain and move to pleasure.........in your case, BIG OIL has manipulated the flow of information so skillfully that you move from pleasure to pain (even thought you think you are doing the opposite).

But such propaganda does not work on scientists........we can see it for what it is immediately: BS propaganda devoid of science and reason.

Apparently BIG OIL with or without your knowledge has trained you to respond to any scientific evidence that counters your belief system with the following comments: manipulation; conspiracy........pretty sad for your camp and that does not work on scientists or change any facts about climate change.

Your head in the sand position, of course, prevents any real debate. The simple fact is that the scientific facts are not on your side. They are not part of some grand conspiracy or propaganda machine; they are the result of a massive amount of climate data gathering and analysis worldwide.

Keep your heads firmly embedded in the sand........it makes no real difference because the actual scientific debate has already taken place and your side lost big time. Responsible scientists and politicians are working on solutions.

One solution is to move away from our BIG OIL dominated Stone Age energy technology. Move to what? A decentralized, low cost, environmentally sound system for the 21st century. Before attaining that goal, we make the transition with current, alternative systems.

The economic growth that will ensue will be massive (almost beyond imagination)........and that will improve the quality of life worldwide (less wars and no BIG OIL wars; far less crime; less ethnic conflicts; ability to grow economically in an environmentally sound manner, etc).

As a result, BIG GOVERNMENT will be less necessary........taxes will be reduced dramatically........it will be a much improved world.

[sonicdragon]

I've always maintained a middle road position on climate change. It's not something that can be proven one way or the other. I think RickBradford's post #840 above sums it up quite well. It will be very interesting to see how this Hadley CRU Email leak scanal unfolds.

[chuckd]

How did this thread escape my attention? JR is hiding his BIG OIL exploits from us.

Having said that, here is something that came in today that I found particularly humorous, yet very true. JR won't find any humor here.

__

The Day Global Warming Stood Still

Climate Change: As scientists confirm the earth has not warmed at all in the past decade, others wonder how this could be and what it means for Copenhagen. Maybe Al Gore can Photoshop something before December.

It will be a very cold winter of discontent for the warm-mongers. The climate show-and-tell in Copenhagen next month will be nothing more than a meaningless carbon-emitting jaunt, unable to decide just whom to blame or how to divvy up the profitable spoils of climate change hysteria.

The collapse of the talks coupled with the decision by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid to put off the Kerry-Boxer cap-and-trade bill, the Senate's version of Waxman-Markey, until the spring thaw has led Oklahoma Sen. James Inhofe, the leading Republican on the Environment and Public Works Committee, to declare victory over Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., and the triumph of observable fact over junk science.

"I proudly declare 2009 as the 'Year of the Skeptic,' the year in which scientists who question the so-called global warming consensus are being heard," Inhofe said to Boxer in a Senate speech. "Until this year, any scientist, reporter or politician who dared raise even the slightest suspicion about the science behind global warming was dismissed and repeatedly mocked."

Inhofe added: "Today I have been vindicated."

The Ada (Oklahoma) Evening News quotes Inhofe: "So when Barbara Boxer, John Kerry and all the left get up there and say, 'Yes. We're going to pass a global warming bill,' I will be able to stand up and say, 'No, it's over. Get a life. You lost. I won,'" Inhofe said.

Now we have the German publication Der Spiegel, which is rapidly becoming the house organ for climate hysteria, weighing in again with the sad news that the earth does not have a fever so we really don't have to throw out the baby with the rising bath water.

In an article titled, "Climatologists Baffled By Global Warming Time-Out," author Gerald Traufetter leads off with the observation: "Climatologists are baffled as to why average global temperatures have stopped rising over the last 10 years." They better figure it out, Der Spiegel warns, because "billions of euros are at stake in the negotiations."

We are told in sad tones that "not much is happening with global warming at the moment" and that "it even looks as though global warming could come to a standstill this year." But how can it be that the earth isn't following all those computer models? Is the earth goddess Gaia herself a climate change "denier"?

The article gloomily notes that a few weeks ago Britain's Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research pointed out that the earth had in fact only warmed 0.07 degree Celsius from 1999 to 2008 and not by the 0.2 degree Celsius predicted by the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

An even more inconvenient truth, according to the British experts, is that when their figures are adjusted for two naturally occurring climate phenomena, El Nino and La Nina, the resulting temperature trend is reduced to 0.0 degree Celsius. No, that's not a typo.

As if that weren't enough, it seems hackers broke into the computer network run by the Hadley Climate Research Unit, removing 61 megabytes of e-mails and data.

While we don't condone theft, the hacked data and e-mails have spilled onto the Web and reveal something startling: The scientists at Hadley, one of the world's leading climate change study centers, aren't scientifically objective at all.

Indeed, in e-mails, they boast of twisting scientific data to suit their views and to "hide" the truth. At one point, a scientist actually gloats over the death of global warming skeptic John L. Daly, saying, "In an odd way, this is cheering news."

If true, this is massive scientific fraud.

To add to the warm-mongers' woes, patron saint Al Gore, the man who claimed to have invented the Internet, might also have claimed the discovery of Photoshop. Dr. Roy Spencer, of the University of Alabama at Huntsville, formerly with NASA, has taken a look at the pictures used to illustrate Gore's new book, "Our Choice: A Plan To Solve the Climate Crisis."

Gore Photoshopped NASA imagery of the earth for the fold-out cover photo, adding four hurricanes at once, including one spinning in the wrong direction next to Florida and, in a physical impossibility, one on the equator next to Peru. Somewhere in the process, the island of Cuba was deleted.

It is the warm-mongers who are spinning in the wrong direction. We win. You lose. Get a life.

The link:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/A....aspx?id=513195

___________________________________________

[ballzafire]

Good article. Thanks, chukd.

[JR Texas]

How did this thread escape my attention? JR is hiding his BIG OIL exploits from us.

Having said that, here is something that came in today that I found particularly humorous, yet very true. JR won't find any humor here.

No problem....embarrass yourself over and over again........it is revealing.

[ThaiAdventure]

Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology. has just made another pronouncement in light of a development in popular culture. His pronouncement as follows:

Thailand will also be excluded from any events portrayed by the movie "2012" should those events become reality. It is somehow connected with the fact that Thailand is the center of the known universe.

Thats fantastic. . Do you have a link to the full article?

[toptuan]

Suphat Vongvisessomjai, a former professor in water resources engineering at Bangkok's Asia Institute of Technology. has just made another pronouncement in light of a development in popular culture. His pronouncement as follows:

Thailand will also be excluded from any events portrayed by the movie "2012" should those events become reality. It is somehow connected with the fact that Thailand is the center of the known universe.

Thats fantastic. . Do you have a link to the full article?

Sorry, the link is only in my head...

[chuckd]

How did this thread escape my attention? JR is hiding his BIG OIL exploits from us.

Having said that, here is something that came in today that I found particularly humorous, yet very true. JR won't find any humor here.

No problem....embarrass yourself over and over again........it is revealing.

I am embarrassing MYSELF????

BIG OIL

[nisakiman]

I didn't know if it was a hoax or not that the system at CRU had been hacked, but this seems to confirm it. I note that the BBC, as a fully paid up member of the climate-change brigade doesn't mention the content of the hacked emails, but we all know what they contain. No doubt JR will tell us that this is all a conspiracy fomented by BIG OIL, but those of us that actually lend some thought to this subject will know that the AGW bandwagon has been dealt a serious blow. The content of the hacked emails merely confirms what many of us already knew was the case.

But just for the record, JR, tell us how and why this exposee has been engineered by BIG OIL to discredit the AGW fandango.

[ballzafire]

.... But just for the record, JR, tell us how and why this exposee has been engineered by BIG OIL to discredit the AGW fandango.

What. You mean for a laugh? Don't egg him on.

You'd only be contributing to the delinquency of a minor -- minor intelligence, that is...

Edited November 21, 2009 by ballzafire

[JR Texas]

.... But just for the record, JR, tell us how and why this exposee has been engineered by BIG OIL to discredit the AGW fandango.

What. You mean for a laugh? Don't egg him on.

You'd only be contributing to the delinquency of a minor -- minor intelligence, that is...

Just checking for signs of intelligent life here............NOTHING TO BE FOUND!

Please remove your tin foil hats.........you look silly wearing them.

And please try learning something about science and climate change. Studying at the Rush Limbaugh School of Climate Change is not going to get you anywhere.

These links--to real scientists who are working on the actual problem of climate change--will help you get started:

http://www.realclimate.org/

http://ossfoundation.us/

http://www.skepticalscience.com/

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SourceWatch (this one will help you discover the fake scientists who are being portrayed by the Tin-Foil Heads as experts on climate change)

Maybe those wearing tin foil hats will inform us all why they think BIG OIL does not exist.

Maybe they will inform us as to why BIG OIL has nothing to gain from funding a massive propaganda campaign to stop positive action on the energy front.

Maybe they will let us know why scientists are supposedly engaged in some massive conspiracy to force positive change on the energy front when they could make far more money working for BIG OIL posting pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Maybe they will tell us why they say the reason for this so-called conspiracy is to create BIG GOVERNMENT when it already exists.

Maybe they will tell us why moving beyond Stone Age energy technology is a bad thing.

Maybe........but I doubt it.

[RickBradford]

But just for the record, JR, tell us how and why this exposee has been engineered by BIG OIL to discredit the AGW fandango.

He can't. All he can do is offer personal slurs, point fingers at the usual bogeymen and suggest a series of 'maybes'. Not a fact to be seen anywhere.

Classic global-warming bedwetter behaviour.

[JR Texas]

But just for the record, JR, tell us how and why this exposee has been engineered by BIG OIL to discredit the AGW fandango.

He can't. All he can do is offer personal slurs, point fingers at the usual bogeymen and suggest a series of 'maybes'. Not a fact to be seen anywhere.

Classic global-warming bedwetter behaviour.

What an intelligent response! Now, please use your brain.

Do you see a trend?:

[chuckd]

JR, I have always wondered if the Warren Commission was correct in their assumption that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone shooter.

Will you let me in on the truth of this conspiracy as well?

Edit in:

Just a little history lesson that you might find of interest. JR's avatar is a photo of Big Tex. Big Tex is a large (52 feet tall) steel and paper mache character originally designed for the State Fair of Texas.

The interesting thing about Big Tex, and the relation to this thread, is that Big Tex has no brain, does no thinking on it's own and is programmed to speak what others want it to say.

In short it is the largest dummy (manikin) in the world.

Edited November 22, 2009 by chuckd

[JR Texas]

JR, I have always wondered if the Warren Commission was correct in their assumption that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone shooter.

Will you let me in on the truth of this conspiracy as well?

Edit in:

Just a little history lesson that you might find of interest. JR's avatar is a photo of Big Tex. Big Tex is a large (52 feet tall) steel and paper mache character originally designed for the State Fair of Texas.

The interesting thing about Big Tex, and the relation to this thread, is that Big Tex has no brain, does no thinking on it's own and is programmed to speak what others want it to say.

In short it is the largest dummy (manikin) in the world.

Another intelligent response.

Here is another picture........see a trend? It is a bit more complex (sorry).

[teatree]

But just for the record, JR, tell us how and why this exposee has been engineered by BIG OIL to discredit the AGW fandango.

He can't. All he can do is offer personal slurs, point fingers at the usual bogeymen and suggest a series of 'maybes'. Not a fact to be seen anywhere.

Classic global-warming bedwetter behaviour.

Come on now guys, I think we are being a bit harsh on JR. After all, he has done more to promote skepticism of AGW than any of us, what with his non sensical posts containing nothing but BIG OIL rantings and junk science.

We should be thanking him for totally discrediting the 'warmer' movement.

[ballzafire]

JR, I have always wondered if the Warren Commission was correct in their assumption that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone shooter. Will you let me in on the truth of this conspiracy as well? Edit in: Just a little history lesson that you might find of interest. JR's avatar is a photo of Big Tex. Big Tex is a large (52 feet tall) steel and paper mache character originally designed for the State Fair of Texas. The interesting thing about Big Tex, and the relation to this thread, is that Big Tex has no brain, does no thinking on it's own and is programmed to speak what others want it to say. In short it is the largest dummy (manikin) in the world.

Astute observations!

You forgot to mention that he was also financed by Big Oil......

[JR Texas]

JR, I have always wondered if the Warren Commission was correct in their assumption that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone shooter. Will you let me in on the truth of this conspiracy as well? Edit in: Just a little history lesson that you might find of interest. JR's avatar is a photo of Big Tex. Big Tex is a large (52 feet tall) steel and paper mache character originally designed for the State Fair of Texas. The interesting thing about Big Tex, and the relation to this thread, is that Big Tex has no brain, does no thinking on it's own and is programmed to speak what others want it to say. In short it is the largest dummy (manikin) in the world.

Astute observations!

You forgot to mention that he was also financed by Big Oil......

Both you and Teabag are really embarrassing yourselves at this point (but you don't seem to realize it). Continue with your nonsensical posts.

You don't seem to be able to respond to anything that is based on science.

Here is another picture........see a trend? I wonder if BIG OIL likes the trend.

[teatree]

JR, I have always wondered if the Warren Commission was correct in their assumption that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone shooter.

Will you let me in on the truth of this conspiracy as well?

Edit in:

Just a little history lesson that you might find of interest. JR's avatar is a photo of Big Tex. Big Tex is a large (52 feet tall) steel and paper mache character originally designed for the State Fair of Texas.

The interesting thing about Big Tex, and the relation to this thread, is that Big Tex has no brain, does no thinking on it's own and is programmed to speak what others want it to say.

In short it is the largest dummy (manikin) in the world.

Another intelligent response.

Here is another picture........see a trend? It is a bit more complex (sorry).

The graph doesn't prove that CO2 drives climate. It just shows that it is increasing and so too is world population. So what?

There have been times in Earth's history when CO2 was far higher than today.

By the way you may want to post graphs that state where the information comes from or don't bother posting it. For all we know you could have thrown it together. But I guess the reliability of data isn't so important to the 'warmers', just so long as it can used to back up their fear mongering.

[JR Texas]

JR, I have always wondered if the Warren Commission was correct in their assumption that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone shooter.

Will you let me in on the truth of this conspiracy as well?

Edit in:

Just a little history lesson that you might find of interest. JR's avatar is a photo of Big Tex. Big Tex is a large (52 feet tall) steel and paper mache character originally designed for the State Fair of Texas.

The interesting thing about Big Tex, and the relation to this thread, is that Big Tex has no brain, does no thinking on it's own and is programmed to speak what others want it to say.

In short it is the largest dummy (manikin) in the world.

Another intelligent response.

Here is another picture........see a trend? It is a bit more complex (sorry).

The graph doesn't prove that CO2 drives climate. It just shows that it is increasing and so too is world population. So what?

There have been times in Earth's history when CO2 was far higher than today.

By the way you may want to post graphs that state where the information comes from or don't bother posting it. For all we know you could have thrown it together. But I guess the reliability of data isn't so important to the 'warmers', just so long as it can used to back up their fear mongering.

If you put all of the pictures I posted together, you will see a relationship among several variables: population growth, economic growth, fossil fuel use, greenhouse gas emissions, destruction of glaciers, global warming, etc.

But you have to have an open mind to see that. And you have already told readers you have a closed mind, stating that you think it is a "conspiracy."

Of course, you just posted more BS with your "CO2 was far higher than today" comment. As usual, you omit the science. You distort what we know about climate change over the long stretch of geological time......in particular you omit the impact of the sun on climate change.

You can read about it here:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-higher-in-past.htm

Now, back to one of the earlier pictures.......see a trend?

[RickBradford]

See a trend, JR?

It’s a plot of the US highway fatality rate versus the tonnage of fresh lemons imported from Mexico, and I have to say, it’s a pretty darn straight line. More lemons, less deaths. The vitamin C, maybe? The fragrance? Bioflavanoids?

The point is, as another poster pointed out correlation does not imply causation, except to dim-bulb conspiracy theorists, and this is just one of the fatal flaws in the AGW position.

[JR Texas]

Cute example but every scientists is aware of what you said. It is elementary.

But things are often related.

Statistical processes assist in determining the degree and extent of relationships among variables.

Common sense also enters into the equation.

Findings in peer review journals are scrutinized for flaws of all sorts, including spurious relationships between and among variables.

If you are going to argue that there is no relationship among population growth, economic activity, fossil fuel use, greenhouse gas emissions, and global warming......well, good luck with that dream.