"Brexit is being presented as a beacon of hope for small-scale fishers. ..

 "no deal Brexit" scenario:

-> The UK claims high quota shares and access to waters, but the EU responds with high tariff and non-tariff barriers, and fails to reduce its own quota share or fishing pressure

-> Brexit negotiations turn sour and the most adversarial outcomes prevai

-> winners: Improvement in economic performance (earnings, profits, wages) for fleet segments with large quota holdings. Similar to Hard Brexit, but with smaller gains.

-> losers: reduction in economic performance for fleets segments with small quota holdings. Similar to Hard Brexit, but with larger losses."

( vessels (under 10 metres) make up 77% of the UK fishing fleet, they hold only 1.5% of the quota... it's up to the fisheries Minister to allocate more UK quota to small vessels over large)

 

OTHERS BREXIT SCENARIOS AND STUDY RESULTS: This report is the first attempt to weigh the risks and opportunities of Brexit for UK fishers, analysing six different possible scenarios for Brexit Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit, Fisheries First Brexit, Fisheries Last Brexit, No deal Brexit

https://neweconomics.org/uploads/files/Not-in-the-Same-Boat-PDF.pdf

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by Opl

13 hours ago, bannork said:

Boris won in the Labour heartlands because the voters there didn't trust or understand Corbyn's stance.

Things have changed rapidly now Keir is in charge. He's keeping quiet about Brexit, letting Boris make a complete hash of it. 

 

If folk were that serious about staying in the EU they would have voted for anyone other than the Tories.

Liberals STATED they would quosh Brexit if they won the election.

 

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LIBERALS..........................?

 

I await your answer...........????

1 hour ago, transam said:

If folk were that serious about staying in the EU they would have voted for anyone other than the Tories.

Liberals STATED they would quosh Brexit if they won the election.

 

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LIBERALS..........................?

 

I await your answer...........????

 Brexit was one factor in the election. Voting Labour didn't mean Brexit would be put to another referendum, dithering Jeremy sat on the fence promising the world and nobody believed him.

Now there's a credible figure in charge of Labour who is increasingly exposing the lies and incompetence of Boris and crew.

 

14 minutes ago, bannork said:

 Brexit was one factor in the election. Voting Labour didn't mean Brexit would be put to another referendum, dithering Jeremy sat on the fence promising the world and nobody believed him.

Now there's a credible figure in charge of Labour who is increasingly exposing the lies and incompetence of Boris and crew.

 

Lets us all blame Jeremy, nothing to do with the likes of Abbott and McDonnal. The problem you have is that Starmer is out polling his party, you need a popular party to get into power, Labour still does not tick the boxes of the electorate. And Starmer giving the knee to the Marxist mob and keeping quiet when the party was full of anti semetics didn't help.

Now Unites Len McClusky is thinking about withdrawing funding to the Labour party, there is still too much infighting in the Labour Party to form a credible government.

And to say that Brexit was only one factor is laughable and I'm sure you really don't believe it.

Remember Labour gave you the 'Hard Brexit' you all continuously go on about.

On 8/1/2020 at 10:00 PM, 7by7 said:

Nothing tangible, then!

 

That is the trouble with TVF Brexiteers; long on rhetoric, short on actual, real life benefits.

We have provided plenty of tangible benefits, such as not having to pay an estimated 100 billion Euros to the post Covid19 wealth transfer scheme to transfer money from the northern "states" to the poorly managed southern "states".

 

Is 100 Billion Euros not tangible? Just because you choose to ignore benefits such as this, doesn't mean they don't exist or haven't been provided to you and the other sore losers many, many times.

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Lets us all blame Jeremy, nothing to do with the likes of Abbott and McDonnal. The problem you have is that Starmer is out polling his party, you need a popular party to get into power, Labour still does not tick the boxes of the electorate. And Starmer giving the knee to the Marxist mob and keeping quiet when the party was full of anti semetics didn't help.

Now Unites Len McClusky is thinking about withdrawing funding to the Labour party, there is still too much infighting in the Labour Party to form a credible government.

And to say that Brexit was only one factor is laughable and I'm sure you really don't believe it.

Remember Labour gave you the 'Hard Brexit' you all continuously go on about.z

Plenty of time for Stormer to pull the party round. Let the hard left and woke characters go into oblivion. Johnson, meanwhile, has very little time to avoid the financial disaster of Covid combined with a hard Brexit.

3 hours ago, bannork said:

 Brexit was one factor in the election. Voting Labour didn't mean Brexit would be put to another referendum, dithering Jeremy sat on the fence promising the world and nobody believed him.

Now there's a credible figure in charge of Labour who is increasingly exposing the lies and incompetence of Boris and crew.

 

Very funny.....Where does the IRA and Iran fit in with your theory......?  ????

31 minutes ago, bannork said:

Plenty of time for Stormer to pull the party round. Let the hard left and woke characters go into oblivion. Johnson, meanwhile, has very little time to avoid the financial disaster of Covid combined with a hard Brexit.

Are you British...?

I thought Blair started the New Labour, what happened, I will tell you what happened, you lefty folk didn't like the New Labour, you wanted a lefty party back, and you got it, but now you want a posh bloke to do a Tony job.......You lot are so, so funny.....Want socialism but with a posh leader, well after all, plumbers don't ride a bicycle with their tools on the handlebars any more, they have a Merc van eh.....????

23 minutes ago, transam said:

Are you British...?

I thought Blair started the New Labour, what happened, I will tell you what happened, you lefty folk didn't like the New Labour, you wanted a lefty party back, and you got it, but now you want a posh bloke to do a Tony job.......You lot are so, so funny.....Want socialism but with a posh leader, well after all, plumbers don't ride a bicycle with their tools on the handlebars any more, they have a Merc van eh.....????

Many people on the left want a party that's electable with realistic policies.

Those that believe it's better to keep ones ideals pure and intact rather than gain power by compromise should leave the Labour Party and start their own.

The Labour have got an electable leader now, rattling Boris every Wednesday in the Commons. Next year he'll probably be facing Sunak as PM following the Brexit fiasco. 

Probably all parties will propose rejoining the EU in the next election.

7 minutes ago, bannork said:

Many people on the left want a party that's electable with realistic policies.

Those that believe it's better to keep ones ideals pure and intact rather than gain power by compromise should leave the Labour Party and start their own.

The Labour have got an electable leader now, rattling Boris every Wednesday in the Commons. Next year he'll probably be facing Sunak as PM following the Brexit fiasco. 

Probably all parties will propose rejoining the EU in the next election.

A predictable reply...Well done......????.......

Your chum will be along soon with some links..????

I don't know why you are getting so heated. This is all just posturing (on both sides). They both know what the final deal will look like, they are just haggling over incidentals now. They are politicians, this bottom feeding press tripe is their stock and trade.

 

On 8/3/2020 at 2:15 AM, transam said:

If folk were that serious about staying in the EU they would have voted for anyone other than the Tories.

Liberals STATED they would quosh Brexit if they won the election.

 

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LIBERALS..........................?

 

I await your answer...........????

 

56.4% voted for anyone other than the Tories! The Tories only got 43.6% of the vote.

 

Parties supporting Boris' stance of forcing Brexit on the UK at any price without allowing the UK voters a say on the final deal brought that share of the vote up to 47%. 

 

What happened to the Liberals? They were dissolved in 1988. A new Liberal party was formed in 1989, and in 2019 only stood in a handful of seats, losing their deposits in all of them.

 

The Liberals did not say that they would quash Brexit, indeed ever since their inception in 1989 they have always supported Leave and in the 2019 GE they supported Boris' Brexit at any price without giving the people a final say stance.

 

It was the LibDems who said in their manifesto that if they polled over 50% of the vote and won the majority of seats in the Commons that they would quash Brexit. Otherwise they would support a people's vote on the final deal.

 

The LibDems increased their share of the vote by 4.6pp; the Tories only increased theirs by 1.2.

 

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

56.4% voted for anyone other than the Tories! The Tories only got 43.6% of the vote.

 

Parties supporting Boris' stance of forcing Brexit on the UK at any price without allowing the UK voters a say on the final deal brought that share of the vote up to 47%. 

 

What happened to the Liberals? They were dissolved in 1988. A new Liberal party was formed in 1989, and in 2019 only stood in a handful of seats, losing their deposits in all of them.

 

The Liberals did not say that they would quash Brexit, indeed ever since their inception in 1989 they have always supported Leave and in the 2019 GE they supported Boris' Brexit at any price without giving the people a final say stance.

 

It was the LibDems who said in their manifesto that if they polled over 50% of the vote and won the majority of seats in the Commons that they would quash Brexit. Otherwise they would support a people's vote on the final deal.

 

The LibDems increased their share of the vote by 4.6pp; the Tories only increased theirs by 1.2.

 

????.....Oh hello again........

The Liberals were decimated at the last election, their leader even lost her seat, this is the party that would have canceled Brexit, the voters slaughtered them. Why, the voters wanted Brexit done...

Now you can twist stuff as much as you like, which you always do, but the voters voted for Brexit, voted for the Tories to get it done, it is being done, yet you are here blabbering on and on in your own fantasy world. ????

On 8/3/2020 at 5:52 AM, JonnyF said:

We have provided plenty of tangible benefits, such as not having to pay an estimated 100 billion Euros to the post Covid19 wealth transfer scheme to transfer money from the northern "states" to the poorly managed southern "states".

 

Is 100 Billion Euros not tangible? Just because you choose to ignore benefits such as this, doesn't mean they don't exist or haven't been provided to you and the other sore losers many, many times.

 

By 'wealth transfer scheme' I assume you mean the recovery package. 

 

Yes, it's a lot of money, but where did you get the figure of 100 billion euros for the UK's contribution?

 

I suspect you are confusing this with the £190 billion the UK government had spent in the UK up to the beginning of July (source)

 

Of course, the Covid 19n pandemic is a worldwide crisis and was not foreseen in 2016. 

 

As for the tangible benefits you and you cohorts claim to have provided; you must have done so in invisible ink!

No point in having a never ending post mortem.  Remain lost! FGS get over it and move on!

Remainers can either keep dribbling and whinging or they can grow a backbone and balls and join with us in rebuilding the nation. We have nearly 50 years worth of damage by the EU Mafia to undo. But with hard work and resolve we will return to our rightful place on the world stage.

As for the French, well its a pity we just didn't leave them to learn German!

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by Lormak

7 minutes ago, transam said:

????.....Oh hello again........

The Liberals were decimated at the last election, their leader even lost her seat, this is the party that would have canceled Brexit, the voters slaughtered them. Why, the voters wanted Brexit done...

Now you can twist stuff as much as you like, which you always do, but the voters voted for Brexit, voted for the Tories to get it done, it is being done, yet you are here blabbering on and on in your own fantasy world. ????

 Decimated? Slaughtered?

 

Well they did go from 12 seats down to 11! Even though their share of the vote rose by 4.6pp. Hardly decimated; hardly slaughtered!

 

Yet again you seem to believe that 47 is greater than 50!

 

You are only deluding yourself; support for Boris and his Brexit at any price is falling here in the UK, support for a final say on the deal is rising.

 

That you choose to turn a blind eye to this from your perch in Thailand doesn't alter that.

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Decimated? Slaughtered?

 

Well they did go from 12 seats down to 11! Even though their share of the vote rose by 4.6pp. Hardly decimated; hardly slaughtered!

 

Yet again you seem to believe that 47 is greater than 50!

 

You are only deluding yourself; support for Boris and his Brexit at any price is falling here in the UK, support for a final say on the deal is rising.

 

That you choose to turn a blind eye to this from your perch in Thailand doesn't alter that.

????..................You are bringing your twisting stuff to a new level, perhaps denial does that, who knows. ????

So, because you are not on a perch in LOS it makes your stuff more credible, hmmmm, I think with your last comment, it really points to the fact you have lost the plot, and it is not a very nice comment, coming from the king of links.

Now I am very sorry you are stuck in the UK, but you should not make dodgy remarks to those of us who can....????

8 minutes ago, transam said:

????..................You are bringing your twisting stuff to a new level, perhaps denial does that, who knows. ????

So, because you are not on a perch in LOS it makes your stuff more credible, hmmmm, I think with your last comment, it really points to the fact you have lost the plot, and it is not a very nice comment, coming from the king of links.

Now I am very sorry you are stuck in the UK, but you should not make dodgy remarks to those of us who can....????

 Yet again you show that you have no real argument against the facts, so have to resort once more to your 'twisting stuff' retort.

 

As you claim I am twisting the share of the vote figures from 2019, then produce those you consider to be the true ones!

 

"Stuck in the UK!" So that's what you think about living in this country! 

 

If post Brexit UK is going to be the paradise you and your mates claim, surely instead of not wanting to be 'stuck' here you should all be rushing back!

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by 7by7
Addendum

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Yet again you show that you have no real argument against the facts, so have to resort once more to your 'twisting stuff' retort.

 

As you claim I am twisting the share of the vote figures from 2019, then produce those you consider to be the true ones!

 

"Stuck in the UK!" So that's what you think about living in this country! Sums you up perfectly.

Amazing..............????

As you missed it, I'll repeat my addendum.

 

If post Brexit UK is going to be the paradise you and your mates claim, surely instead of not wanting to be 'stuck' here you should all be rushing back!

 

When will you provide your version of the share of the vote last December?

 

 

24 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

As you missed it, I'll repeat my addendum.

 

If post Brexit UK is going to be the paradise you and your mates claim, surely instead of not wanting to be 'stuck' here you should all be rushing back!

 

When will you provide your version of the share of the vote last December?

 

 

Your posts, and those of other whinging <deleted>, are simply cringe-inducing.  You lost. Move on. 

If you can't accept democracy you still have four months to move to an EU country and take residence there.

Just now, Lormak said:

Your posts, and those of other whinging <deleted>, are simply cringe-inducing.  You lost. Move on. 

If you can't accept democracy you still have four months to move to an EU country and take residence there.

 

Another well thought out argument from a Brexiteer. 

 

As you are a new member, I'll repeat some points from before you joined.

 

In a democracy people are allowed to argue for change. The anti EEC/EU lobby had been doing just that since the polls closed on the 5th June 1975!

 

What myself and many others want is a say on the final deal, whenever that may happen. Indeed, 53% of voters said as much in the GE last December. Why are you Brexiteers so afraid of giving the British public that say?

 

So when will you be moving back to the paradise of a post Brexit UK? 

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

In a democracy people are allowed to argue for change. The anti EEC/EU lobby had been doing just that since the polls closed on the 5th June 1975!

Well if you are so confident of your arguements I suggest you go off and form a pro-EU political party.  I'll pencil in a date for another referendum - sometime around 2070 LOL!

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

So when will you be moving back to the paradise of a post Brexit UK? 

I'll be watching how things go. Maybe I will move back.  One of the reasons I moved to Thailand was to escape the hellhole that Great Britain has become as a consequence of EU membership.  Seems that you are still stuck there.  Enjoy it. Peace be Upon You! 

1 hour ago, Lormak said:

No point in having a never ending post mortem.  Remain lost! FGS get over it and move on!

Remainers can either keep dribbling and whinging or they can grow a backbone and balls and join with us in rebuilding the nation. We have nearly 50 years worth of damage by the EU Mafia to undo. But with hard work and resolve we will return to our rightful place on the world stage.

As for the French, well its a pity we just didn't leave them to learn German!

This macho posturing by Brexiteers makes me laugh, backbones and balls indeed. What do you say to female Remainers?

I've got a new phrase for you: 'Brexit builds character'.

Nothing like a bit of suffering to make a man out of you. Cancer medicines late, food prices going up under WTO conditions, mass unemployment.

'Aye lad, it wuz tough, but we were happy!'

6 minutes ago, Lormak said:

Well if you are so confident of your arguements I suggest you go off and form a pro-EU political party.  I'll pencil in a date for another referendum - sometime around 2070 LOL!

 

At first I accepted the result in 2016; even defended it here on TVF at the time.

 

But as time passed and the deceit and downright lies and other shady practices of Vote.Leave and others became apparent I started to join the calls for another vote.

 

But had Johnson not put his personal ambition ahead of the country in 2017 then I would still have shrugged my metaphorical shoulders and accepted it.

 

Now that he has got what he wanted, and his deal is identical to that labelled as BRINO in all important aspects, except for selling out the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that we, the people, should be given the final say on that deal

 

If Boris allows democracy to prevail and holds a referendum on the final Brexit deal, then I will accept that, whatever the result.

 

Why? Because unlike 2016, the British people are now fully aware of what Brexit means and the consequences for this country.

 

Why are you and the other expat TVF Brexiteers so frightened of giving the people that say?

 

So you are in exile in Thailand and yearning to return to the motherland when we are free of the European yolk? Of course you are, and tomorrows bacon is in the trees! 

 

Enlighten me, though, and expand on what it was about EU membership which made the UK a 'hellhole.'

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

At first I accepted the result in 2016; even defended it here on TVF at the time.

 

But as time passed and the deceit and downright lies and other shady practices of Vote.Leave and others became apparent I started to join the calls for another vote.

 

But had Johnson not put his personal ambition ahead of the country in 2017 then I would still have shrugged my metaphorical shoulders and accepted it.

 

Now that he has got what he wanted, and his deal is identical to that labelled as BRINO in all important aspects, except for selling out the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that we, the people, should be given the final say on that deal

 

If Boris allows democracy to prevail and holds a referendum on the final Brexit deal, then I will accept that, whatever the result.

 

Why? Because unlike 2016, the British people are now fully aware of what Brexit means and the consequences for this country.

 

Why are you and the other expat TVF Brexiteers so frightened of giving the people that say?

 

So you are in exile in Thailand and yearning to return to the motherland when we are free of the European yolk? Of course you are, and tomorrows bacon is in the trees! 

 

Enlighten me, though, and expand on what it was about EU membership which made the UK a 'hellhole.'

Deceit, downright lies and other shady practices were exactly what got us into this fine mess, Stanley! 

 

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by nauseus

2 hours ago, Lormak said:

Your posts, and those of other whinging <deleted>, are simply cringe-inducing.  You lost. Move on. 

If you can't accept democracy you still have four months to move to an EU country and take residence there.

ask Farage how you can have it both ways

2 hours ago, Lormak said:

Your posts, and those of other whinging <deleted>, are simply cringe-inducing.  You lost. Move on. 

If you can't accept democracy you still have four months to move to an EU country and take residence there.

You mean like Boris's dad, taking out French residency? Lol 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

At first I accepted the result in 2016; even defended it here on TVF at the time.

 

But as time passed and the deceit and downright lies and other shady practices of Vote.Leave and others became apparent I started to join the calls for another vote.

 

But had Johnson not put his personal ambition ahead of the country in 2017 then I would still have shrugged my metaphorical shoulders and accepted it.

 

Now that he has got what he wanted, and his deal is identical to that labelled as BRINO in all important aspects, except for selling out the people of Northern Ireland, I believe that we, the people, should be given the final say on that deal

 

If Boris allows democracy to prevail and holds a referendum on the final Brexit deal, then I will accept that, whatever the result.

 

Why? Because unlike 2016, the British people are now fully aware of what Brexit means and the consequences for this country.

 

Why are you and the other expat TVF Brexiteers so frightened of giving the people that say?

 

So you are in exile in Thailand and yearning to return to the motherland when we are free of the European yolk? Of course you are, and tomorrows bacon is in the trees! 

 

Enlighten me, though, and expand on what it was about EU membership which made the UK a 'hellhole.'

49er;

 

you accepted the 2016 results - OK - What does that mean? I don't understand language like that

what is the difference of you accept/not accept the result? what would you have done if you did

not accept the results

 

giving people that say?

its not UK politics and not in UK practice

had such an approach been proclaimed before the ref. OK

several years after? no - too late - would demonstrate (again) that the UK management is unable to do excrement

 

hellhole? nee way, EU membership has been beneficial to UK on close to all levels

except that it doesn't meet with UK preferences - simple as that

 

re deceit lies shady practices and the like;

coming from the land of the midnight sun I've  been through this exercise twice (20 years intermission)

chajt and deep chajt and double chajt all over the country and from all interested parties

politicians and VIPs queing up in the broadcaster bogs to predict doom and how nigh the end of all is

BUT;

the chajt production pretty much came to a full halt a year after the referenda

in that respect UK is kinda different - you never bloody stop

rematch/replay ain't a sound way of running a modern country - me thinks