When I Saw Parangs, I Thought Sure Die

[Shokdee]

The Electric New Paper, Singapore - Trip to Thai festival ends in scary attack for 4 S'poreans - April 22, 2007

AN outing to soak up Koh Samui's nightlife ended in terror for three Singapore men. The Songkran festivities in Bangkok on 13 Apr, the day the four were beaten in Koh Samui. - Picture: AP

Mr Shane S, 28, his brother Derek, 26, and two of their friends took a short holiday that coincided with the Thai New Year celebration. But at the dawn of the Songkran Festival on Apr 13, they found themselves assaulted by unknown assailants. The Singaporeans had arrived on the popular Thai island the evening before and immediately decided to go pub-hopping.

...

See link below for full story.

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,...,128295,00.html

Edited April 25, 2007 by Maestro
Quoted text reduced, for copyright reasons.

[taxexile]

a samui welcome !

drunken thais with machetes and sticks !

hopefully it will be fully reported in the singapore press.

once again , the useless , lazy and uneducated thai police disgrace themselves.

'There were some locals watching, yet nobody wanted to help us.

they will have been enjoying the show , and had the tourists fought back , they would have probably joined the thugs.

but in less developed areas, some officers find it hard to deal with such cases.

i.e. chaweng , less developed ? you mean they find it hard to get off their ar5es and do their job.

It's better if you have local friends who may be able to help you when things go wrong.'

how can a weekend visitor be expected to have local friends.

The outpatient treatment cost 7,000 baht ($325).

even the hospital bleeds 'em dry !

and the thai consular official in singapore has the gall to make pathetic and frankly ridiculous excuses for the lack of help the tourists recieved from the police.

they are almost saying it was the tourists fault.

well done thailand.

well done monkey island.

well done ms. consular official.

pathetic.

[Rooo]

Don't know what is going on, but my reply vanished. Anyway tax we can work out that PARANG problem.When are you coming over?

[Mark Wolfe]

She added that courses are conducted for police officers to help them deal with foreigners in distress, but in less developed areas, some officers find it hard to deal with such cases.

You would think that on a tourist island like Samui, basic command of English would be required to even be considered to be posted here.

[Tornado]

Very unusual for a group of Thais to attack someone

I feel for these guys.

[ClaudeFeller]

Why the municipality cannot hang a billboard close to the airport:

" You are foreigner?"

" You want our police to help you?"

" You have to pay money first - 5.000 or 10.000 Bahts"

So everybody would be prepared.

[Shokdee]

There is the TOURIST police and the NORMAL police. The point of having TOURIST police is that they are the contact point for tourists and should be (1) able to speak english, (2) aid tourists, (3) provide assistence if the situation needs to escalate to the NORMAL police.

Also, as someone pointed out, the general message sent to the tourists that were attacked is IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT AND IT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Now just to tie it in to a recent typical road death. A poor soul dies because of the dangerous, unlighted, roadworks. Samui Express newspaper tried to follow this up. They went to the police who said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to highways/road works dept. The highways people said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to the contractor doing the repairs. The contractor says, NOT MY PROBLEM, people should look where they're driving! More and more I see this on Samui for any kind of bad situation that happens - IT IS THE VICTIMS FAULT!

And a final point about the roadworks. I always see in the local newspapers people saying, The roadworks have been going on for x (3,5,6..) months now, when is it finished? Well, these roadworks have been going on for over 8 YEARS now! Ever since the last major road widening project in the late 1990's they haven't stopped. If any of you can remember back to the days just after the ringroad and bridges were widened: Show we one stretch of road where the road is BETTER today then it was THEN. So 9 plus years of dangerous roadworks for what? (OK yes for the contractor to cream off the money in a perpetual contract. For the hospitals to cream money in human body repairs). Now I ask, so why do you believe it will be better in 8 more years, let alone 5 or 6 months? The many hospitals make their money from all the road accidents and so there is pressure not to keep the roads in good condition. Seems like they are also happy for the violence to escalate so they can make money from the victims. The whole POLICE / ROADWORKS / HOSPITAL situation is a SHAM.

[Belgarath]

How many percent of the tourist income would it cost to improve the situation?

I dream of Samui; after 7 winters in Thailand the system here forced me to stay in Sweden all winter this time, even though my health has improved considerably during these last 7 winters and the doctors have sent serious papers to that Swedish governmental insurance office that it is because of my stays in Thailand, but it has only resulted in laughter. A few times on Samui, and I really enjoy life there, within my limitations! Hopefully I will soon officially retire, then we will see. My Thai wife, who came here to stay this Easter, well - she wants to become an international gal, one foot here and one there, and being reporter and professional photographer, I think she will do fine!

A reason why it is always a disappointment to hear that seemingly small problems in Thailand just do not get any attention. It does not seem cost related. Just disorganisation - it does not seem very logical that lots of municipal works there start out un-financed, so what is the problem? Longtimers on Samui should in some way be able to team up with longtime Thais there, and pool the resources to push the authorities!

[ClaudeFeller]

@Shokdee,

The discussion in SamuiExpress is a bit childish.

There are laws, regulations about construction that has to be followed:

The constructor has to lighten the roadworks (WHO ELSE??).

A friend of mine, constructor himself, told me that many constructors just dont care about this.

If an accident occurs, the police will write "Roadsworks were lightened, victim drove too fast" and they will pick up money from the constructor.

@Belgarath

"Longtimers on Samui should in some way be able to team up with longtime Thais there, and pool the resources to push the authorities!"

Yes, nail on the head - thats what we are trying in Nathon now to get a bypass road and an urban planning. Think there will be a report about our projet in the next Newspaper.

The "Foreigners" and the Thais have to join in every commmunity here on Samui. Now many Samui people with an higher education and with good english knowledge have returned to Samui after studying in a university. It is time to work together.

Cheers from Nathon, Claude

[Noodles]

Also, as someone pointed out, the general message sent to the tourists that were attacked is IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT AND IT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Now just to tie it in to a recent typical road death. A poor soul dies because of the dangerous, unlighted, roadworks. Samui Express newspaper tried to follow this up. They went to the police who said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to highways/road works dept. The highways people said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to the contractor doing the repairs. The contractor says, NOT MY PROBLEM, people should look where they're driving! More and more I see this on Samui for any kind of bad situation that happens - IT IS THE VICTIMS FAULT!

And a final point about the roadworks. I always see in the local newspapers people saying, The roadworks have been going on for x (3,5,6..) months now, when is it finished? Well, these roadworks have been going on for over 8 YEARS now! Ever since the last major road widening project in the late 1990's they haven't stopped. If any of you can remember back to the days just after the ringroad and bridges were widened: Show we one stretch of road where the road is BETTER today then it was THEN. So 9 plus years of dangerous roadworks for what? (OK yes for the contractor to cream off the money in a perpetual contract. For the hospitals to cream money in human body repairs). Now I ask, so why do you believe it will be better in 8 more years, let alone 5 or 6 months? The many hospitals make their money from all the road accidents and so there is pressure not to keep the roads in good condition. Seems like they are also happy for the violence to escalate so they can make money from the victims. The whole POLICE / ROADWORKS / HOSPITAL situation is a SHAM.

I agree.

[t.s]

Also, as someone pointed out, the general message sent to the tourists that were attacked is IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT AND IT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Now just to tie it in to a recent typical road death. A poor soul dies because of the dangerous, unlighted, roadworks. Samui Express newspaper tried to follow this up. They went to the police who said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to highways/road works dept. The highways people said NOT OUR PROBLEM go to the contractor doing the repairs. The contractor says, NOT MY PROBLEM, people should look where they're driving! More and more I see this on Samui for any kind of bad situation that happens - IT IS THE VICTIMS FAULT!

And a final point about the roadworks. I always see in the local newspapers people saying, The roadworks have been going on for x (3,5,6..) months now, when is it finished? Well, these roadworks have been going on for over 8 YEARS now! Ever since the last major road widening project in the late 1990's they haven't stopped. If any of you can remember back to the days just after the ringroad and bridges were widened: Show we one stretch of road where the road is BETTER today then it was THEN. So 9 plus years of dangerous roadworks for what? (OK yes for the contractor to cream off the money in a perpetual contract. For the hospitals to cream money in human body repairs). Now I ask, so why do you believe it will be better in 8 more years, let alone 5 or 6 months? The many hospitals make their money from all the road accidents and so there is pressure not to keep the roads in good condition. Seems like they are also happy for the violence to escalate so they can make money from the victims. The whole POLICE / ROADWORKS / HOSPITAL situation is a SHAM.

I agree.

explain to me how this is unique to samui?

it is a rather interesting contrast to the west where you can sue because you didn't realize the starbucks coffee was hot or that a diet of mcdonadlds would make you fat and you can sue and win. Not sure where to draw the line exactly.

that said, it is hardly relavent to the singaproean imbroglio.

as a side note, if i had to listent to singlish for an entire night, i would probably have wanted to pull out my "parang" and "make die sure"

not really, no one deserved what they got, but the story cannot be complete. we are missing something, and i find singaporeans generally quite abrasive and arrogant, though not intentionaly. it is a culture/language thing

[Rooo]

Would the last soccer results between Thailand & Singapore ,have anything to do with it perhaps?

[highdiver]

I over heard some Thai people talking about this case and they were repeating the "loose face" and that the Singaporeans have made someone loose face and thats why they were attacked.

it is not the first time in samui or in Thailand that forigners get into problems because they lack the understanding of the importance of the face. by the reaction of some of the members on this forum they too although living in thailand are probebly not fully understand of how importnat it is.

In Thailand it is very important not to put someone down in the eyes of others.

Very simply in Thailand appearance is everything.

It is important to remember that outside of Bangkok in the rural

areas, people may be poor in wealth but rich in dignity. It is easy to be

deceived by Thais dressed in the latest fashions that their roots are in the

poorest of poor communities and villages. Every Thai from a early age learns

how to show respect and not accidentally damage the face of another.

Understanding all the things that you need to consider is much more than can

be listed here but generally if you observe how Thais treat other Thais you

will get the basics quickly.

Most Thais who work around people from other countries have learned to

accept that many are green when it comes to understanding face. This is more

so the case where people from western countries have not a clue as to how

important it is.

You can think of face as a form of money. Instead of having a $30,000.00

Rolex on your wrist, people in Asia have face. The Rolex tends to be a

financial status showoff on your wrist without words. You or someone had to

dig deep in their wallet for that Rolex to be on your wrist. As loads of

money is not what Thais are best known for, face becomes a commodity. People

can gain or get face by doing positive things for others. The more people

you can affect in a positive way the more face you get. It may be as simple

as giving directions to a stranger, to the type of job you hold. So hold

that thought that face has value like money to Thais.

So now think if someone accidentally caused you to lose money certainly you

would be upset. Depending on how much money you may overlook it or not.

Now if someone was deliberately trying to take your money there is no doubt

you would be upset followed very shortly thereafter by anger. So depending

on your personal self control and how much money you lost you could have a

variety of reactions.

Thais are no different and you can expect the same emotional response.

Generally speaking if you deliberately try to make someone lose face you can

expect retaliation. Some of that retaliation can be very unpleasant on one

end of the spectrum to being sent home in a box at the other end. Keeping in

mind laws and social structure there probably would be very little official

investigation if you experienced bodily harm from a Thai whose face you

harmed deliberately. There is a consideration that if the persons face you

harmed got their face by false pretense you may gain face but that would do

nothing about the retaliation that will be directed at you. So the bottom

line on this is don’t even go there.

the best way to avoid this violence is to be pleasent and avoid confrontation.

[taxexile]

so , highdiver , what you are saying is ..... it was the tourists fault.

to walk out of a bar and be attacked by a gang of bottle throwing and machete wielding yobs.

do all thais go out carrying bottles and knives , so that just in case they should accidentaly have their fragile egos bruised , or their feeling hurt by a foriegner , these thais , who , and i'm quoting you here ..... "from a early age learn to show respect and not accidentally damage the face of another.....

these thais , these poor yet dignified , well brought up and respectful upholders of ancient traditions , are, i suppose just giving free lessons in their wonderful culture as part of the welcome to tourists.

i suppose we should really be grateful.

the fact is , is that this country has a growing and dangerous problem with drunkeness and violence amongst its male youth , caused by poor or irresponsible parenting , the ineffectiveness of the police and the law to prevent or prosecute it , and the ease with which the police can be persuaded to turn the other way and , like the thugs , see the tourist as fair game.

[Shokdee]

I understand all about "face" but that doesn't explain the excessive violence, the roaming gangs. Here's my 2 cents worth:

It's a social problem stemming from the breakdown of local community and community values. The local Samui people who had big, valuable pieces of land, have sold out and moved to Bangkok. Those with less land are left behind. More and more NON SAMUI people come in to replace the locals. Not only construction, but at 7-11, Tesco, Big C, everywhere. These people have no ties to the island, there is no network of "face saving" within the community anymore. The neigbourhood watch, the shame in the family, all those things that keep a community together are gone. So that is one big cause of problems on Samui - TOO MANY NON-LOCALS WITH NO FAMILY TIES HERE.

But there is also another, related, aspect. Those left behind are increasingly feeling left out, increasingly seeing these non-locals pouring in. Feeling of helplessness, frustration builds amongst the locals. They start to feel like strangers on their own island. This leads to excessive violence. I predict you'll see more and more local gangs (schoolkids oftentimes) taking out their frustrations as their society is ripped apart. So a second cause is FEELING OF HOPLESSNESS/FRUSTRATION AMONG LOCAL TOUGH GUYS.

Which leads to another point. Slowly you'll see the local bullyboys and local small fry mafia (taxi, tourguides, boats, sex, drugs) will also be squeezed out as Samui ratchets up to be millionaire playground. The BIG BOYS (international mafia) will start stepping in as the stakes rise to a point where it makes it viable for them to get involved. (The 2 Russian ladies shot at Pataya is, I think, an example of what I'm talking about). So the third cause is LOOMING POWER STRUGGLE OVER WHO HAS THE POWER ON SAMUI.

Really I love Samui very much, but I see the problem is deep rooted and not easy to solve. You can gloss it over as isolated incidents but I think it is only going to get worse!

[koheesti]

I wouldn't give the Thais a free pass for trying to kill someone but on the other hand you ignore other's culture at your own peril.

[highdiver]

so , highdiver , what you are saying is ..... it was the tourists fault.

to walk out of a bar and be attacked by a gang of bottle throwing and machete wielding yobs.

do all thais go out carrying bottles and knives , so that just in case they should accidentaly have their fragile egos bruised , or their feeling hurt by a foriegner , these thais , who , and i'm quoting you here ..... "from a early age learn to show respect and not accidentally damage the face of another.....

these thais , these poor yet dignified , well brought up and respectful upholders of ancient traditions , are, i suppose just giving free lessons in their wonderful culture as part of the welcome to tourists.

i suppose we should really be grateful.

the fact is , is that this country has a growing and dangerous problem with drunkeness and violence amongst its male youth , caused by poor or irresponsible parenting , the ineffectiveness of the police and the law to prevent or prosecute it , and the ease with which the police can be persuaded to turn the other way and , like the thugs , see the tourist as fair game.

no definatly not. i never said it was the tourists fault. must be your imagination working over time....again...

I was only explaining how situations that may seem trivial can escalate into a problem. and that hidden cultural aspects of the Thai culture are not so observed by forigenrs and as such are the main cause of conflict.

I am sying that many of the violence between tourist and thais usually occures when some Thai feels he has lost face or that some forigner makes acusations that cause the thai to loose face. it can be what seems like a small remark or an insagnificant gesture that for a forigner will seem trivial but to a Thai can be a grave insult.

the Thai can choose to ignore it or as we see in some cases respond with a very severe retaliation.

many of those problems can be avoided if the forigners are more sensitive to this isuue and on the other hand Thais accept that forigners are very easy about shooting thiere mouth off....

I have been reading many of your posts that reflect your negetive views about Thailand. I am sorry that you choose to use bashing and sarcastic remarks instead of addressing the issue with a more gentle aproach.

I can only hope that my post has enabled other forigners to understand Thai culture better and that they will avoid getting into situations that they should not have been in the first place.

[taxexile]

I have been reading many of your posts that reflect your negetive views about Thailand

i only have negative views about the negative aspects of this country .

the violence towards tourists , unfair pricing and the generally poor service offered by the police here being especially galling.

i fully understand that drunken and abusive tourists might end up in trouble , and i understand that violence can occur anywhere in the world.

thailand sells itself as a tourist haven , and as such it should look after its tourists better..... especially those who get into difficulties and in places such as pattaya , samui and phuket.

according to the singaporeans , they were set upon for no reason at all. there had been no previous contact.

to me it looks like those paragons of virtue went out armed with knives looking for tourists to rob and beat. it was clockwork orange , thai style.

nothing to do with insults or cultural misunderstandings.

[Shokdee]

I know about "face" but that doesn't explain the sensless, excessive violence and the roaming gangs looking for trouble. Here's my 2 satangs worth...

One problem is the collapse of the local community. The locals who had valuable land have sold off and left for Bangkok, leaving behind a smaller group of locals. More and more NON LOCALS flood onto Samui, not only construction, but at 7-11, Tesco, Big C, everywhere. They have no family ties with the local community. Previously the local community, through "face saving", family shame, monkhood, etc kept things in check. Now that is disintegrating and the island is populated by people with no family ties to Samui, no community to keep things in check. So first problem is TOO MANY NON-LOCALS WITH NO FAMILY/COMMUNITY TIES TO SAMUI.

This leads to the locals who are left behind feeling more helpless, more disenfranchised. They feel frustrated as they are now almost strangers on their own island. The US and THEM dichotomy becomes more stark. They need to band together and find some meaning, try cope with the frustration and feeling of helplessness as their community dissolves. The excessive violence is partly due to building frustration and search for meaning. They are struggling for identity and meaning now that the nature of Samui has changed (from local/agricultural based to international/tourism based). So the second cause relates to the too rapid development leading to FEELING OF HELPLESSNESS AND FRUSTRATION AMONG REMAINING LOCAL THUGS.

Coming up I also see a larger power struggle over who will control Samui in the near future. As Samui ratchets up to become the millionaire playground, the local small fry mafia (taxi, tourguides, boats, sex, drugs) will increasingly come face to face with the BIG BOYS of international mafia. Once Samui is in their sights and it's viable for them to stake a claim in the taxi/boat/sex/drug scene then there'll be a struggle over control (e.g. more hitmen around). I think those 2 Russian ladies shot in Pattaya is an example of this kind of powerplay. So another cause is LOOMING POWER STRUGGLE OVER WHO CONTROLS WHAT ON SAMUI.

Overall I think looking at these crimes as saving face, drunkenness, spur of the moment anger, etc. is missing the issue that this is deep rooted in wider changes.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Shokdee

[Samui Coconut]

I know about "face" but that doesn't explain the sensless, excessive violence and the roaming gangs looking for trouble. Here's my 2 satangs worth...

One problem is the collapse of the local community. The locals who had valuable land have sold off and left for Bangkok, leaving behind a smaller group of locals. More and more NON LOCALS flood onto Samui, not only construction, but at 7-11, Tesco, Big C, everywhere. They have no family ties with the local community. Previously the local community, through "face saving", family shame, monkhood, etc kept things in check. Now that is disintegrating and the island is populated by people with no family ties to Samui, no community to keep things in check. So first problem is TOO MANY NON-LOCALS WITH NO FAMILY/COMMUNITY TIES TO SAMUI.

This leads to the locals who are left behind feeling more helpless, more disenfranchised. They feel frustrated as they are now almost strangers on their own island. The US and THEM dichotomy becomes more stark. They need to band together and find some meaning, try cope with the frustration and feeling of helplessness as their community dissolves. The excessive violence is partly due to building frustration and search for meaning. They are struggling for identity and meaning now that the nature of Samui has changed (from local/agricultural based to international/tourism based). So the second cause relates to the too rapid development leading to FEELING OF HELPLESSNESS AND FRUSTRATION AMONG REMAINING LOCAL THUGS.

Coming up I also see a larger power struggle over who will control Samui in the near future. As Samui ratchets up to become the millionaire playground, the local small fry mafia (taxi, tourguides, boats, sex, drugs) will increasingly come face to face with the BIG BOYS of international mafia. Once Samui is in their sights and it's viable for them to stake a claim in the taxi/boat/sex/drug scene then there'll be a struggle over control (e.g. more hitmen around). I think those 2 Russian ladies shot in Pattaya is an example of this kind of powerplay. So another cause is LOOMING POWER STRUGGLE OVER WHO CONTROLS WHAT ON SAMUI.

Overall I think looking at these crimes as saving face, drunkenness, spur of the moment anger, etc. is missing the issue that this is deep rooted in wider changes.

Go back to Singapore.....or wherever you come from, all this nonsense makes me sick......

[taxexile]

Go back to Singapore.....or wherever you come from, all this nonsense makes me sick......

now thats a true samui welcome !!

[chuchok]

Go back to Singapore.....or wherever you come from, all this nonsense makes me sick......

now thats a true samui welcome !!

It certainly is.

[TopDogger]

Aye.. what a tw@t!

[Hex]

10 against 3, the thai way of streetfighting.

[Rooo]

I have been reading many of your posts that reflect your negetive views about Thailand

i only have negative views about the negative aspects of this country .

the violence towards tourists , unfair pricing and the generally poor service offered by the police here being especially galling.

i fully understand that drunken and abusive tourists might end up in trouble , and i understand that violence can occur anywhere in the world.

thailand sells itself as a tourist haven , and as such it should look after its tourists better..... especially those who get into difficulties and in places such as pattaya , samui and phuket.

according to the singaporeans , they were set upon for no reason at all. there had been no previous contact.

to me it looks like those paragons of virtue went out armed with knives looking for tourists to rob and beat. it was clockwork orange , thai style.

nothing to do with insults or cultural misunderstandings.

Could have fooled me.

[StickKettleOn]

I have read so many of these stories over my time in LOS. The worst one I can recall was around three years ago when a drunken ferang guy was trying to walk UP the escalators at a BKK shopping mall. Security guard comes over, shouts at the guy to stop, the guy shouts back.

At this point, in any civilized country, the security guard would have called for help, threw the guy out and/or called the police.

What actually happened is that local shopkeepers, security guards, shoppers even the cleaning ladies all jumped the guy, beat him up, continued to kick him in the head while he lay on the floor and put the guy in a coma.

Going back on topic - these guys from sillypore most likely did something to offend the Thais. Whatever it was, I can almost guarantee it with something trivial that at best should have been written off, making allowances for the cultural thing or at worst, screaming at the tourist to get out of the bar and not come back. Ganging up on the poor blokes with sticks and knives is typical Thai style cowardice.

This situation has never happened to me - I have been here long enough to understand the fragile sensibilities of Thais. However if this situation does ever transpire and I find myself faced with a group of angry Thais, I promise you now I will punch, kick, bite, stomp, poke and do everything I can to show them that I wont stand for there cowardly pack mentality. I would ensure at least 3 of them wind up in the same hospital as me. You see, cowering down on the floor and begging for forgiveness will offer no less respite than fighting them back. Either way, they will keep going until you are out cold, or dead.

If Thailand ever hosts the football word cup, let’s see how a gang of Thais react to a tiny little cultural faux par made by 200 drunken football hooligans. I’m sure they would not be so brave with there knives and sticks then.

[highdiver]

I have read so many of these stories over my time in LOS. The worst one I can recall was around three years ago when a drunken ferang guy was trying to walk UP the escalators at a BKK shopping mall. Security guard comes over, shouts at the guy to stop, the guy shouts back.

At this point, in any civilized country, the security guard would have called for help, threw the guy out and/or called the police.

What actually happened is that local shopkeepers, security guards, shoppers even the cleaning ladies all jumped the guy, beat him up, continued to kick him in the head while he lay on the floor and put the guy in a coma.

Going back on topic - these guys from sillypore most likely did something to offend the Thais. Whatever it was, I can almost guarantee it with something trivial that at best should have been written off, making allowances for the cultural thing or at worst, screaming at the tourist to get out of the bar and not come back. Ganging up on the poor blokes with sticks and knives is typical Thai style cowardice.

This situation has never happened to me - I have been here long enough to understand the fragile sensibilities of Thais. However if this situation does ever transpire and I find myself faced with a group of angry Thais, I promise you now I will punch, kick, bite, stomp, poke and do everything I can to show them that I wont stand for there cowardly pack mentality. I would ensure at least 3 of them wind up in the same hospital as me. You see, cowering down on the floor and begging for forgiveness will offer no less respite than fighting them back. Either way, they will keep going until you are out cold, or dead.

If Thailand ever hosts the football word cup, let’s see how a gang of Thais react to a tiny little cultural faux par made by 200 drunken football hooligans. I’m sure they would not be so brave with there knives and sticks then.

I think you need to check your testostrone levels...

In the last world cup on main street chaweng in one of the more poular pubs a group of "hooligans" not 200 but a fair amount were very very drunk abusing the thai staff and disregarding the owners requests to calm down. when they ofended a thai man that passed by and had a go at him he came back with friends and you are right the Thais didnt use sticks they brought guns.

it was so nice to see those ""brave""hooligans running around like mice.

the next day everyone was on about how the thais dont know how to take care of tourists.

do not try and confront the locals it could end up very bad. a thai will never enter a comabt that he knows he can loose. (on the contrary to most westerners) a thai will always make sure that the odds are in his favour and if it takes gathering a group then they will do so to make sure they come out on the upper hand. call it "cowardly pack mentality" if you like but at the end of the day you are the one who gets the problem.

Since you have been here for a while and you are aware that then just dont go there and stay out of problems.

[StickKettleOn]

High Diver

Football hooligans were a terrible euphemism on my part. My point was, Thais always, always fight in packs but if the situation was reversed, I wonder how they would react.

Thais always fight in packs. Ok, at times it may be justified – though rarely. For example if some drunken idiot took it upon himself to do something awful to a picture of a certain highly respected person, you would not blame them for ‘mobbing up’. Or a guy gets caught having it away with his 14 year old step daughter…. Again, mob up all you like lads.

More often then not though, it is a case of some ferang being beaten up for something trivial. Even though the guy is probably getting walloped from just one Thai and the Thai needs no help, a whole pack of them will ‘steam in’ for the sake of it.

I see that as really very bad, out of order, and cowardly.

There are a couple of interesting threads in the Phuket forum recently about Thais ganging up on lone ferangs. There is one story in particular that I enjoyed reading on that forum regarding a ferang who was set upon by three Thais who climbed out of there new BMW to have a go at this ferang in front of his wife. The ferang battered two of them, and chased the last guy in circles around the car until eventually, he ran off. Evidently, it was posted by a guy who has contributed many posts and is known by several of the members in that forum – so likely a very true story.

Further more my point fighting back with the Thai’s – you may have misunderstood my meaning. As you pointed out, I have indeed been a while and know how to behave and as I mentioned, I would not put myself in a position where a group of them would confront me. Nor would I ever provoke. In a situation such as this I would smile, apologies, wai and walk away. What I meant was, if that was not good enough and there would be nothing I could do to stop a pack coming at me, then I would (as I said) fight, punch, kick, bite and grab anything close enough to <deleted> them with as from there point of view, they will beat the crap out of you regardless of your reaction – so you may as well take a couple of them with you.

[StickKettleOn]

Disclaimer!!

Mods….. Put the coffee mug down and step away from the keyboard. I am not Thai bashing, before anyone starts. For the most part, I very much like the Thais and am pleased they allow me to live here. There good points greatly outweigh there bad points in my opinion. However, this is one of the traits they display that bothers me and seeing as this thread is about a bunch of tourists that got beaten up with sticks and blades, my opinion is relevant.

[somchai jones]

I have read so many of these stories over my time in LOS. The worst one I can recall was around three years ago when a drunken ferang guy was trying to walk UP the escalators at a BKK shopping mall. Security guard comes over, shouts at the guy to stop, the guy shouts back.

At this point, in any civilized country, the security guard would have called for help, threw the guy out and/or called the police.

What actually happened is that local shopkeepers, security guards, shoppers even the cleaning ladies all jumped the guy, beat him up, continued to kick him in the head while he lay on the floor and put the guy in a coma.

Going back on topic - these guys from sillypore most likely did something to offend the Thais. Whatever it was, I can almost guarantee it with something trivial that at best should have been written off, making allowances for the cultural thing or at worst, screaming at the tourist to get out of the bar and not come back. Ganging up on the poor blokes with sticks and knives is typical Thai style cowardice.

This situation has never happened to me - I have been here long enough to understand the fragile sensibilities of Thais. However if this situation does ever transpire and I find myself faced with a group of angry Thais, I promise you now I will punch, kick, bite, stomp, poke and do everything I can to show them that I wont stand for there cowardly pack mentality. I would ensure at least 3 of them wind up in the same hospital as me. You see, cowering down on the floor and begging for forgiveness will offer no less respite than fighting them back. Either way, they will keep going until you are out cold, or dead.

If Thailand ever hosts the football word cup, let’s see how a gang of Thais react to a tiny little cultural faux par made by 200 drunken football hooligans. I’m sure they would not be so brave with there knives and sticks then.

I think you need to check your testostrone levels...

In the last world cup on main street chaweng in one of the more poular pubs a group of "hooligans" not 200 but a fair amount were very very drunk abusing the thai staff and disregarding the owners requests to calm down. when they ofended a thai man that passed by and had a go at him he came back with friends and you are right the Thais didnt use sticks they brought guns.

it was so nice to see those ""brave""hooligans running around like mice.

the next day everyone was on about how the thais dont know how to take care of tourists.

do not try and confront the locals it could end up very bad. a thai will never enter a comabt that he knows he can loose. (on the contrary to most westerners) a thai will always make sure that the odds are in his favour and if it takes gathering a group then they will do so to make sure they come out on the upper hand. call it "cowardly pack mentality" if you like but at the end of the day you are the one who gets the problem.

Since you have been here for a while and you are aware that then just dont go there and stay out of problems.

Well said, Skydiver, thanks for the first post that's showed a bit of sense.