Majority of Scots support independence from UK - YouGov poll

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The most vocal supporters of Brexit here live in Thailand.

 

Do you consider them to be hypocrites, too?

 

Just asking.

There have been several occasions where someone you have declared to be "on a perch in Thailand" has unearthed something topical and newsworthy right under your nose that you have known nothing about; the latest being an event of substantial historic significance within walking distance of your current abode that will take place at the end of this month. I haven't bothered with the boards for a while because a) I was on the naughty step & b ) I can see that they're going nowhere, but I have been very busy elsewhere from this same perch...????

Edited August 16, 2020 by evadgib

[colinneil]

7 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

you know what you can do with your forum, it's full of keyboard know it all's like you with 5 figure posts and too much to say about everything and anything

 

is that what you came to Thailand for to spend all day on this? get a life

OH dear you are certainly having a bad day.????

i have 5 figure posts, spent 13 years on here, why are you on here if you are not happy with it?

This is a discussion forum, many different people, with many different opinions.

Now i am all for Brexit, and do not agree with Scotland going alone, yet i am half Scottish, father born in Stirling.

[hugh mckee]

if you spend the vast majority of your life in Thailand then of course your views on Brexit, Scottish Independence and anything else going on in the UK does not have the same relevance and neither does your opinion.

 

I don't care if you live 50 years there, paid millions in tax, you don't live there any more, it barely affects your life in thailand

 

people like me who spend the vast majority like now in the UK, our thoughts and opinions are what's far more relevant, what's happening in Thailand

and your lifes in Thailand is what is important to you, not your ex-life in the UK.

[hugh mckee]

9 minutes ago, colinneil said:

OH dear you are certainly having a bad day.????

i have 5 figure posts, spent 13 years on here, why are you on here if you are not happy with it?

This is a discussion forum, many different people, with many different opinions.

Now i am all for Brexit, and do not agree with Scotland going alone, yet i am half Scottish, father born in Stirling.

and your point is?

 

one of your 5 figure poster friends called me a bigot and implied i was racist, when I'm neither, didn't see you post anything then

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

if you spend the vast majority of your life in Thailand then of course your views on Brexit, Scottish Independence and anything else going on in the UK does not have the same relevance and neither does your opinion.

 

I don't care if you live 50 years there, paid millions in tax, you don't live there any more, it barely affects your life in thailand

 

people like me who spend the vast majority like now in the UK, our thoughts and opinions are what's far more relevant, what's happening in Thailand

and your lifes in Thailand is what is important to you, not your ex-life in the UK.

What if you spend an equal amount of time in both Thailand and Scotland? Can you have full say on both locations or only half say in each?

[hugh mckee]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What if you spend an equal amount of time in both Thailand and Scotland? Can you have full say on both locations or only half say in each?

 

I'd say you have more than your say on everything already, as i said I'm not wasting any more time on ultra left wing guys like you

 

you made your bed and if you're now living in Thailand? then <deleted> has Scottish Independence got to do with you? very little, leave that to the people

living in Scotland, none of your business really!

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee

[stretch5163]

On 8/13/2020 at 4:40 PM, Rookiescot said:

Surely not.

52% v 48% was an overwhelming majority in the case of Brexit. Will of the people. Democracy. The people will have spoken.

 

The people of Scotland spoke the first time around after she lowered the age to vote on the independence referendum. She lost but isnt going to be happy until she is known as the woman that brings Scotland down. And yes i am Scottish and think its ludicrous to allow a second vote. Whats going to happen this time if she looses wait a year or 2 then try for another vote. Getting boring now. Maybe Corona will come her way and do us all a favour..

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

and your point is?

 

one of your 5 figure poster friends called me a bigot and implied i was racist, when I'm neither, didn't see you post anything then

Hugh, I think you are maybe taking all this a little too seriously. None of us (I assume) think we are going to change the world by posting here. Generally it is pub banter for people not in the pub. Colin and I see eye to eye on very little; same goes with me and Evadgib, Vogie and a many others here. 

 

Usually, people look for weaknesses or inconsistencies in your argument and use them to score points - not in a cruel or vicious way, but a little friendly josh - because in the main, people are friendly here regardless of their political perspectives. Please do not take things so seriously, or I will be worried about picking you up on all your glaring inconsistencies in the future ????

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, stretch5163 said:

The people of Scotland spoke the first time around after she lowered the age to vote on the independence referendum. She lost but isnt going to be happy until she is known as the woman that brings Scotland down. And yes i am Scottish and think its ludicrous to allow a second vote. Whats going to happen this time if she looses wait a year or 2 then try for another vote. Getting boring now. Maybe Corona will come her way and do us all a favour..

That is a very uncharitable post. She wasn't FM for the first vote so she didn't lower anything. What she is now doing is leading the most popular party in the country. The polls for the SNP reflect the faith the electorate have in her leadership and the support for independence reflect the majority desire for change. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, hugh mckee said:

yes I do, to form an opinion based on the £ to baht rate is not what Brexit is about, there's a lot more to brexit than that and maybe you'd have to spend some time in the UK to realise that!

But you said you voted against Brexit.

[Rookiescot]

40 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

 

I'd say you have more than your say on everything already, as i said I'm not wasting any more time on ultra left wing guys like you

 

you made your bed and if you're now living in Thailand? then <deleted> has Scottish Independence got to do with you? very little, leave that to the people

living in Scotland, none of your business really!

Ultra left wing?

What has anyone posted in this thread which is ultra left wing?

 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Ultra left wing?

What has anyone posted in this thread which is ultra left wing?

 

I guess 'ultra left' very much depends upon his own position...

[Rookiescot]

50 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

 

I'd say you have more than your say on everything already, as i said I'm not wasting any more time on ultra left wing guys like you

 

you made your bed and if you're now living in Thailand? then <deleted> has Scottish Independence got to do with you? very little, leave that to the people

living in Scotland, none of your business really!

Hugh mate. Please do not become stressed with what other people post on a public form just because they have a different opinion than you have.

Personally I read your posts with interest. I obviously do not agree with much that you say but I do respect your point of view.

Now regarding politics we differ but I would imagine on 90% of other matters you and I would agree. Thats the way life is.

My own brother does not support independence but I still love the guy and would help him in a heartbeat. 

Now I genuinely suggest perhaps taking a break. Go for a walk. Watch some sport. Or even phone a family member or friend and just say hello. We dont do enough of that any more. We text, we email but nothing beats actually talking to someone you care about and have not spoken to in a while.

I mean this honestly mate.

[Sprog71]

If Scotland truly want independence the English should be allowed to vote.

More importantly use the correct spelling  Whisky=Scotch

                                                              Whiskey= Irish or American

[baansgr]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:49 PM, Somtamnication said:

I will buy the brick and mortar to rebuild Hadrian's Wall. Pandemic and all! 

I wish they would give the English independence from the sweatys....72%.....100 English want it...

[hugh mckee]

I don't take this forum seriously, I know it means nothing and I only stumbled on this thread when I was checking to get the latest covid news on my beloved thailand

 

but to be clear, Scotland is my home, I see and read every day about the ridiculous SNP, what some of them get up to? I didn't want to leave the EU and it made my condo purchase £25k more expensive (55 baht to 43 baht) but I didn't want a 2nd EU vote, you do this type of major thing only once, accept the result and get on with your life, which is my exact same feelings on Independence, we had a vote now get on with things and you politicians do your job but that's not what happened.

 

my feelings on independence is it's not a gamble worth taking, if it was the late 70's or 80's and we had guys like John Smith and Donald Dewar leading the country

then maybe Scotland would have prospered with it's oil and gas  and England would have been our best friend and ally, it's now the 2020's we have the anti English SNP, a party full of poor quality politicians who simply blame Scotland's poor record on England, they blame everything that's wrong in Scotland on England and fuel and live on an anti-English ticket, it's very sad and makes me ashamed of my country.

 

to be clear Scotland and this is before covid was running a 7% defecit, you have to be under 3% to join the EU, oil is finished, the oil price has hammered a big country

like Russia's economy, little Scotland has to suffer too and oil is not coming back, we are in the top 3 in europe for Drug deaths, alcohol deaths and now covid deaths,

to go it alone now? wow what a crazy thing to do, what a risk to take, yes as I said in the past we could have had John Smith or Donald Dewar as our leader, not that

joke Alex Salmond or his protege Nicola Sturgeon backed up with the likes of Ian Blackford, to leave ourselves out of the UK and the EU at the same time and be on our own would be foolish beyond words.

 

heaven help us if we get independence, all right for you guys in Thailand to have your strong opinions whilst not living in Scotland, if we ended up like Greece or

even Venezeula you can all come home and bail us out, of course we won't end up like them if we get independent because England would still bail us out before

we got into that state, Scotland needs the rest of the UK, I'm happy they feel they need us too.

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, hugh mckee said:

I don't take this forum seriously, I know it means nothing and I only stumbled on this thread when I was checking to get the latest covid news on my beloved thailand

 

but to be clear, Scotland is my home, I see and read every day about the ridiculous SNP, what some of them get up to? I didn't want to leave the EU and it made my condo purchase £25k more expensive (55 baht to 43 baht) but I didn't want a 2nd EU vote, you do this type of major thing only once, accept the result and get on with your life, which is my exact same feelings on Independence, we had a vote now get on with things and you politicians do your job but that's not what happened.

 

my feelings on independence is it's not a gamble worth taking, if it was the late 70's or 80's and we had guys like John Smith and Donald Dewar leading the country

then maybe Scotland would have prospered with it's oil and gas  and England would have been our best friend and ally, it's now the 2020's we have the anti English SNP, a party full of poor quality politicians who simply blame Scotland's poor record on England, they blame everything that's wrong in Scotland on England and fuel and live on an anti-English ticket, it's very sad and makes me ashamed of my country.

 

to be clear Scotland and this is before covid was running a 7% defecit, you have to be under 3% to join the EU, oil is finished, the oil price has hammered a big country

like Russia's economy, little Scotland has to suffer too and oil is not coming back, we are in the top 3 in europe for Drug deaths, alcohol deaths and now covid deaths,

to go it alone now? wow what a crazy thing to do, what a risk to take, yes as I said in the past we could have had John Smith or Donald Dewar as our leader, not that

joke Alex Salmond or his protege Nicola Sturgeon backed up with the likes of Ian Blackford, to leave ourselves out of the UK and the EU at the same time and be on our own would be foolish beyond words.

 

heaven help us if we get independence, all right for you guys in Thailand to have your strong opinions whilst not living in Scotland, if we ended up like Greece or

even Venezeula you can all come home and bail us out, of course we won't end up like them if we get independent because England would still bail us out before

we got into that state, Scotland needs the rest of the UK, I'm happy they feel they need us too.

For someone who has been banging on repeatedly about angry, nasty independence supporters, you are holding a fair amount of anger and bitterness yourself. 

 

To be clear, streams of Facebook post titles do not constitute a plausible argument. You are heavy on invective but very, very light on substance. Your saying Scotland would be like Greece or Venezuela, for example, is no more credible than me retorting that it would, in fact, be like Shangri La. Neither can be considered a reasonable position to take without fact based argument to back it up. And that is what you are not providing. 

 

I would be more than happy to discuss the concept of a Scottish deficit with you, but I get the feeling that you are not interested in hearing an alternative perspective to the Facebook post you lifted that 7% nonsense from. So maybe you just stick to your Vanguard Bears and the echo chamber of bitter house jocks that you seem comfortable with. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by RuamRudy

[hugh mckee]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

For someone who has been banging on repeatedly about angry, nasty independence supporters, you are holding a fair amount of anger and bitterness yourself. 

 

To be clear, streams of Facebook post titles do not constitute a plausible argument. You are heavy on invective but very, very light on substance. Your saying Scotland would be like Greece or Venezuela, for example, is no more credible than me retorting that it would, in fact, be like Shangri La. Neither can be considered a reasonable position to take without fact based argument to back it up. And that is what you are not providing. 

 

I would be more than happy to discuss the concept of a Scottish deficit with you, but I get the feeling that you are not interested in hearing an alternative perspective to the Facebook post you lifted that from 7% nonsense from. So maybe you just stick to your Vanguard Bears and the echo chamber of bitter house jocks that you seem comfortable with. 

wow, what a load of nonsense, it seems if you see the truth you come away with this drivel, I've no idea what strams od facebook post titles means, I don't use facebook, twitter or any of that stuff, of course you do, your laptop is a big part of your life obviously...........I don't wish to discuss the concept of anything with you.

[RuamRudy]

The grand revival of the Scottish Tories when their new, dynamic leader seems to have gotten off to a faltering start. 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, hugh mckee said:

wow, what a load of nonsense, it seems if you see the truth you come away with this drivel, I've no idea what strams od facebook post titles means, I don't use facebook, twitter or any of that stuff, of course you do, your laptop is a big part of your life obviously...........I don't wish to discuss the concept of anything with you.

Look please, before you totally lose the heid, this forum is supposed to be for reasoned argument as most I believe understand. Of course it gets passionate sometimes, but if people go over the score (as I have done on occasion) the mods reel you in. Before you resort to criticism of others talking drivel, you should stop talking drivel yourself - try a reasoned argument supported by evidence and showing links. Otherwise it is just opinionated farting into space, and people get tired of reading it.

 

" I'm not wasting any more time on ultra left wing guys like you". There are no ultra left wing contributors to TV on the forums I read, left wing certainly. Given the nature of old western white guys, the right wing is over represented here, no surprise there, older voters tend to be more right wing. Are there any ultra right wingers amongst them, one or two for sure, but most are more conservative with a small c. I can only wonder if you feel inadequate to be a part of a debate with people of fairly different views, and cover it up with sad dismissive phrases like " I'm not wasting any more time on you". 

 

Incidentally I have lived nearly all my life in Scotland, and currently, spend just a little bit more of my time in Scotland than Thailand. No doubt you will inform me as to how entitled you believe I am to hold opinions on independence. 

 

 

[7by7]

23 hours ago, evadgib said:

There have been several occasions where someone you have declared to be "on a perch in Thailand" has unearthed something topical and newsworthy right under your nose that you have known nothing about; the latest being an event of substantial historic significance within walking distance of your current abode that will take place at the end of this month. I haven't bothered with the boards for a while because a) I was on the naughty step & b ) I can see that they're going nowhere, but I have been very busy elsewhere from this same perch...????

 

Nice attempted dig at the start of your post, but failed miserably. As is obvious to all, I was asking @hugh mckee a question based upon him calling Scots living in Thailand who hypocrites, which he has answered.

 

As for the rest of your post, it's merely another of your feeble attempts at showing the board that you are so much better informed than the rest of us.

 

You could, of course, prove me wrong on that point by saying exactly what the "event of substantial historic significance within walking distance of your current abode that will take place at the end of this month" is going to be; before it happens, of course.

 

 

[7by7]

17 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The grand revival of the Scottish Tories when their new, dynamic leader seems to have gotten off to a faltering start. 

 

 

Wonder how the Scottish Tories' position has been effected by their leader, Douglas Ross, decision to turn down an invitation to attend a memorial event marking the 75th anniversary of VJ day in his constituency, instead earning a substantial fee as an assistant referee at the Scottish Premiership match between Kilmarnock and St Johnstone?

[evadgib]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Nice attempted dig at the start of your post, but failed miserably. As is obvious to all, I was asking @hugh mckee a question based upon him calling Scots living in Thailand who hypocrites, which he has answered.

 

As for the rest of your post, it's merely another of your feeble attempts at showing the board that you are so much better informed than the rest of us.

 

You could, of course, prove me wrong on that point by saying exactly what the "event of substantial historic significance within walking distance of your current abode that will take place at the end of this month" is going to be; before it happens, of course.

Hardly a dig, given you have personally aimed that exact phrase in this (my) direction on several occasions.

I'll leave you to simmer a little while longer to see if you can unearth the gem that is happening right on your doorstep at the end of this month...

Goodnight 49 ????

Edited August 17, 2020 by evadgib

[7by7]

40 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Hardly a dig, given you have personally aimed that exact phrase in this (my) direction on several occasions

You've still missed the point of my response to Mr. Mckee, even though I explained it in the simplest possible terms!

 

41 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I'll leave you to simmer a little while longer to see if you can unearth the gem that is happening right on your doorstep at the end of this month...

Not simmering, not trying to unearth your 'little gem.' Merely asking you to put your money where your mouth is for once.

 

As I suspected, that was a waste of time. Your response proves beyond any doubt that you have not got the slightest clue about any event of "substantial historical significance" happening anywhere near where I live by the end of this month.

 

You are obviously hoping that by the end of the month I'll have forgotten your claim; or, even more unlikely, that something "of substantial historic significance" might actually have happened on my doorstep or at least, as you earlier claimed, within walking distance of where I live.

 

Which is it, by the way? I suggest you choose walking distance. That can be defined as any distance as everywhere is within walking distance given enough time.

 

By choosing "walking distance" you'll be able to claim that any event of "substantial historical significance" anywhere in the world during August is what you meant.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Wonder how the Scottish Tories' position has been effected by their leader, Douglas Ross, decision to turn down an invitation to attend a memorial event marking the 75th anniversary of VJ day in his constituency, instead earning a substantial fee as an assistant referee at the Scottish Premiership match between Kilmarnock and St Johnstone?

I think it is more gradual that that. Much of what we are seeing are the soft noes coming to the realisation that when it comes down to the devil or the deep blue sea, plumping for the status quo last time has not borne the fruits they were promised. Is any group, other than hard core brexiteers, genuinely positive about the last 5 years of Westminster government? I think it is simply Scots coming to the realisation that they have an escape route.

 

 

[evadgib]

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I think it is more gradual that that. Much of what we are seeing are the soft noes coming to the realisation that when it comes down to the devil or the deep blue sea, plumping for the status quo last time has not borne the fruits they were promised. Is any group, other than hard core brexiteers, genuinely positive about the last 5 years of Westminster government? I think it is simply Scots coming to the realisation that they have an escape route.

 

 

After last night's revelations re SNP shenanigans during the Guerning Bullfrog's trial I'm surprised how quiet this board is today.

 

Had it been Boris...????

 

RR, How about starting a new thread?

[Pattaya Spotter]

As an American, I don't really have a dog in this fight but I'm curious...if the Scotch want to leave, why don't the rest of the UK let them? There is nothing worse than an unhappy marriage...and what do the Scotch bring to the table besides dwindling North Sea oil reserves, the Scapa Flow naval bases, sheep's wool, and perennial complaints of wanting to leave?

Edited August 18, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

As an American, I don't really have a dog in this fight but I'm curious...if the Scotch want to leave, why don't the rest of the UK let them? There is nothing worse than an unhappy marriage...and what do the Scotch bring to the table besides dwindling North Sea oil reserves, the Scapa Flow naval bases, sheep's wool, and perennial complaints of wanting to leave?

The Scots don't want to leave, it is the SNP and the the painty faced nationalistic followers that are intent on separation from England. The Scots had a vote in 2014 and a huge majority voted to remain within our union and that vote has to last a generation/lifetime and don't let any painty faced nationalist tell you any different.

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Scots don't want to leave, it is the SNP and the the painty faced nationalistic followers that are intent on separation from England. The Scots had a vote in 2014 and a huge majority voted to remain within our union and that vote has to last a generation/lifetime and don't let any painty faced nationalist tell you any different.

I would think it would be better to part of a bigger whole than off by yourself but I just go by what I read in the press (I know, it's often biased) and they reported the recent independence referendum as rather close and now they report polls showing a majority for independence. However, you didn't really answer my question...what's in it for the rest of the UK keeping the Scots in...it is a tiny nation of about 6 million or so people correct?

[RayC]

23 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

As an American, I don't really have a dog in this fight but I'm curious...if the Scotch want to leave, why don't the rest of the UK let them? There is nothing worse than an unhappy marriage...

Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that. Current polls suggest that around 55% of Scots want independence (A referendum in 2014 resulted in 55% wanting to remain in the UK). Either way, as with the Brexit referendum (52% - 48% in favour of leaving), a sizeable minority is dissatisfied with the result, and this brings no end of problems. Imo referendums cause more problems than they solve.