Majority of Scots support independence from UK - YouGov poll

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Most of the Scottish independence TVF posters , those who want an independent proud wonderful Scotland.......................actually live in Thailand , so, they would have no idea what Scottish people on the streets of Scotland would want  

1) How would you know where TVF posters reside?

2) Do you think that those who live outside Scotland don't visit regularly, don't have family and friends still there with whom they speak?

3) What is the difference between an expat Scot espousing on the future of Scotland and an expat Englishman championing Brexit?

[hugh mckee]

in 2014 immigrants who'd been in Scotland a short time, guys from the likes of Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan etc they we all allowed to vote, the SNP pushed through legislation to make that possible but at the same time people like Sir Alex Ferguson and Sir Billy Connolly were not allowed to vote, no expat Scot was allowed to vote but guys who couldn't speak English could vote, 16 and 17 year olds were allowed to vote too as the SNP pushed that through as well, they tried hard and bloody Cameron allowed them to weigh the vote in their favour as much as the could and they still suffered a convincing loss.

 

make no mistake they would lose another vote, there was no talk of moving to the EURO last time, this time they'll have to admit that to join the EU they're going to have to,

the Scottish people don't want the EURO, not in a million years

 

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

in 2014 immigrants who'd been in Scotland a short time, guys from the likes of Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan etc they we all allowed to vote, the SNP pushed through legislation to make that possible but at the same time people like Sir Alex Ferguson and Sir Billy Connolly were not allowed to vote, no expat Scot was allowed to vote but guys who couldn't speak English could vote, 16 and 17 year olds were allowed to vote too as the SNP pushed that through as well, they tried hard and bloody Cameron allowed them to weigh the vote in their favour as much as the could and they still suffered a convincing loss.

 

Careful there, Hugh - it is meant to be us independence supporters who are the small minded bigots, is it not?

 

8 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

make no mistake they would lose another vote, there was no talk of moving to the EURO last time, this time they'll have to admit that to join the EU they're going to have to,

the Scottish people don't want the EURO, not in a million years

How would you know that the Scottish people do or do not want if you are adamant that they don't talk about independence? 

[hugh mckee]

10 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Careful there, Hugh - it is meant to be us independence supporters who are the small minded bigots, is it not?

 

How would you know that the Scottish people do or do not want if you are adamant that they don't talk about independence? 

yes play the race card, just illustrates your lack of intelligence, I love Thailand, own a condo there, I'd never think I should be allowed to vote in their elections, it's not my place to have a say in how they run their country, I'm a foreigner.

 

I live in Scotland, meet and talk to many people, independence is not something that's spoken about much at all or moving to the Euro either for that matter, I just know as a Scot that the prospect of giving up the £ for the Euro is something that would be extremely unpopular and I'd enjoy watching those SNP loonies trying to squirm and lie their way out of that one.

 

yes have another vote and let every Scot get a vote this time, anybody who was born in Scotland should be allowed to vote, that means the millions of Scots now living happily in England and the rest of the UK.

Edited August 15, 2020 by hugh mckee

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

yes play the race card,

I think you started it, my friend, when you mentioned 

 

17 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

guys from the likes of Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan

and said that

17 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

no expat Scot was allowed to vote but guys who couldn't speak English could vote,

As for my lack of intelligence, stick around and you'll find I illustrate it in other ways too. 

[hugh mckee]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I think you started it, my friend, when you mentioned 

 

and said that

As for my lack of intelligence, stick around and you'll find I illustrate it in other ways too. 

guys who had just arrived from foreign countries and could barely speak English should not have been allowed to vote when Scottish people living all over the UK were not allowed to vote, if you think that's racist or bigoted then you do lack intelligence, SNP cherry picked who could vote to try to get a win and still lost.

 

0% of me discriminates against people because of the colour of their skin but as I said no way should I ever be voting in a Thai election and if a Thai ever told me that I shouldn't be allowed to vote then he's not being bigoted or racist he's just stating the obvious.

[Scott]

An unintelligible post has been removed.   Since profanity is filtered out, please use respectable language or your post makes no sense whatsoever.  

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, hugh mckee said:

in 2014 immigrants who'd been in Scotland a short time, guys from the likes of Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan etc they we all allowed to vote

They weren't.

 

To vote in the 2014 you had to be aged 16 or over and

• British citizens who were resident in Scotland;
• Citizens of other Commonwealth countries who were resident in Scotland;
• Citizens of other European Union countries who were resident in Scotland;
• Members of the House of Lords who were resident in Scotland;
• Service/Crown personnel serving in the UK or overseas in the British Armed Forces or with Her Majesty's Government who were registered to vote in Scotland.

 

[hugh mckee]

Ms Sturgeon’s plans for Scottish independence were shamelessly exposed after the country’s financial deficit continued to surge to the point it would fail the European Union membership test.

 

 

To be considered for membership to the EU, applicant states are required to have a deficit no higher than three percent.

But the latest GDP quarterly national accounts for Scotland shows the difference between and tax income and public spending had risen from seven percent to 7.2 percent of GDP - seven times more than the rest of the UK.

Political and financial experts have highlighted the difficulties Scotland would now have joining the euro post-independence, as well as adopting a form of the pound and lack of governance over its most important elements

The UK Government has indicated that it would not be open to a common currency area with Scotland, so sterling could only be used as a reactive, impotent partner, with interest rates and general fiscal policy being set in London without Scotland’s input.

“One option would be to use the Euro, but accession to the EU could take some years, and there are economic criteria for joining the Euro which Scotland does not currently meet.

“Scotland could also create its own currency, but backed by what?”

Patrick Sullivan, chief executive and founder of the Parliament Street think tank, warned Scotland continuing to use the British pound as an “independent” currency would be a “very dangerous route” to take.

He claimed Scotland would have no control over its monetary policy, and thus no say over the setting of interest and currency exchange rates.

Mr Sullivan told this website: “Scotland continuing to use the British pound as an “independent” would be a very dangerous route.

 

[hugh mckee]

the above post is going to be the basis of the biggest debate around scottish independence if we ever have a second vote, nobdoy talks much about this right now as we're not having a vote but come voting time this would be massive.

 

in the short term Scottish independence is going to cost billions, Scottish people are renowned for their financial astuteness, if we vote for independence with

the situation as precarious as it is now then as a Scot I will accept that we must need to self govern and accept the will of the Scottish people but at the same time

it would come as a massive surprise to me if the Scottish people were to vote to take such a massive risk with their livelihoods.

 

the bullying, aggressive tactics of the painted face people has polarised our nation, I don't think they'll go quietly even after another defeat if the last hammering they

got in 2014 is anything to go by.

 

I'm starting to wish now we have another vote just to maybe put an end to this in my lifetime? or if they win? go it alone and be done with it and take the consequences, financially i will be fine, sadly a lot of younger people and lower paid and poorer people will suffer, I will just consider myself as a Brit living in Scotland, I will never give up my British passport if the UK allows me to keep it and I can assure you there are many in Scotland feel exactly like me.

 

the SNP are nothing but trouble for Scotland, Scotland is a very prosperous country and they want the Scottish people to take a massive gamble into the unknown.

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

Ms Sturgeon’s plans for Scottish independence were shamelessly exposed after the country’s financial deficit continued to surge to the point it would fail the European Union membership test.

 

 

To be considered for membership to the EU, applicant states are required to have a deficit no higher than three percent.

But the latest GDP quarterly national accounts for Scotland shows the difference between and tax income and public spending had risen from seven percent to 7.2 percent of GDP - seven times more than the rest of the UK.

Political and financial experts have highlighted the difficulties Scotland would now have joining the euro post-independence, as well as adopting a form of the pound and lack of governance over its most important elements

The UK Government has indicated that it would not be open to a common currency area with Scotland, so sterling could only be used as a reactive, impotent partner, with interest rates and general fiscal policy being set in London without Scotland’s input.

“One option would be to use the Euro, but accession to the EU could take some years, and there are economic criteria for joining the Euro which Scotland does not currently meet.

“Scotland could also create its own currency, but backed by what?”

Patrick Sullivan, chief executive and founder of the Parliament Street think tank, warned Scotland continuing to use the British pound as an “independent” currency would be a “very dangerous route” to take.

He claimed Scotland would have no control over its monetary policy, and thus no say over the setting of interest and currency exchange rates.

Mr Sullivan told this website: “Scotland continuing to use the British pound as an “independent” would be a very dangerous route.

 

Did you write all that yourself, Hugh, mate? 

[hugh mckee]

17 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Did you write all that yourself, Hugh, mate? 

no there's this thing called "copy and paste" it's amazing, I did all that in about 2 seconds, oh maybe you are being sarcastic?

or maybe you read it and thought <deleted> there's not much I can say about that as he's right I can't argue with that so I'll just make

a stupid comment, even though i was posting earlier about how clever i was.

[hugh mckee]

that was my last post on the subject, loony painted face snp supporters or left wing corbyn supporters are exactly the same type of people

and it's pointless trying to debate with that type of person.

 

sadly scotland may become by default the new battle ground for the anti brexit, left wing extremists, who may see Scotland getting independence

as some sort of revenge against people and politicians of the UK who supported Brexit.

 

Ultimately it will be the Scottish people who will decide, yes the poisoned way politics is now we could have another vote by default but I have confidence

in the intelligence of my fellow Scots to do exactly what they did in 2014.

 

P.s I was very angry and annoyed the day after the EU vote, I wanted and voted to stay but the British people voted and you have to accept the will of the nation,

what happened after that in the house of commons was dreadful and took it's toll on the UK and all those folks wanting another vote? that was just silly, we'd just had a vote.

 

politics and politicians stink, totally corrupt, in all parties but the party the SNP who want to take over Scotland, I've lost count of the recent scandals from their MP's,

from some fat woman stealing charity money, to halfwits displaying irish flags and playing IRA songs, to the finance minister grooming 16 year old boys online or the glasgow SNP lord provost who claimed £8000 for 23 pairs of shoes to the Alex Salmond fiasco, heaven help Scotland.

[kamma]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:01 PM, RuamRudy said:

Why a dream? What is it about Scotland that makes it uniquely incapable of managing its own affairs?

Scotland isn't the poor little backwater, bereft of resources that you seem to think it is.

 

Scotland definitely has a lot natural resources. And no matter how you look at it Scotland leaving the UK will definitely have an economic impact.

 

However according to the ONS 79% of the UK GDP comes from the service sector (and predominantly the financial, legal and technical expertise industries). Manufacturing and export of natural resources is not a significant part of total GDP. Of course that does not include manufacturing of high-end products such as technologies and weapons.

 

In addition almost 50% of UK energy is imported. Although most of the UKs oil and gas is in the N. Sea the percentage figures don't tell the whole truth because the actual amount of oil and gas there has been dwindling for decades. That is why so much is imported.

 

It would be sad to see the UK breakup but if it happens then it happens.

[scammed]

6 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

What is the difference between an expat Scot espousing on the future of Scotland and an expat Englishman championing Brexit?

the scot is more careful with money by birth while the englishman

is more careful with money as a consequence of the falling pound

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, hugh mckee said:

no there's this thing called "copy and paste" it's amazing, I did all that in about 2 seconds, oh maybe you are being sarcastic?

or maybe you read it and thought <deleted> there's not much I can say about that as he's right I can't argue with that so I'll just make

a stupid comment, even though i was posting earlier about how clever i was.

You are right, Hugh - I was inferring that plagiarism is not very clever, and against the rules of the forum. I am not the type to hit the report button, but most people, when engaging in debate, put in the effort and type out their own words rather than taking the easy way out and simply sh!tposting others' sh!tposts, but whatever floats your inflatable dinghy.

 

I presume from the hysterical prose and utterly baseless conclusion of the piece you posted, it is from the Express? No wonder you never linked to the source - I would be ashamed to link to the Express too. 

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, hugh mckee said:

that was my last post on the subject, loony painted face snp supporters or left wing corbyn supporters are exactly the same type of people

and it's pointless trying to debate with that type of person.

Bye bye

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, kamma said:

Scotland definitely has a lot natural resources. And no matter how you look at it Scotland leaving the UK will definitely have an economic impact.

 

However according to the ONS 79% of the UK GDP comes from the service sector (and predominantly the financial, legal and technical expertise industries). Manufacturing and export of natural resources is not a significant part of total GDP. Of course that does not include manufacturing of high-end products such as technologies and weapons.

 

In addition almost 50% of UK energy is imported. Although most of the UKs oil and gas is in the N. Sea the percentage figures don't tell the whole truth because the actual amount of oil and gas there has been dwindling for decades. That is why so much is imported.

 

It would be sad to see the UK breakup but if it happens then it happens.

I imagine that much of the 79% the ONS refers to is heavily skewed towards London, and probably significantly concentrated in a relatively small number of wealth creators. (As an aside, if Scotland were to rejoin the EU, I wonder how many would seek to establish offices in Edinburgh, which already has a sizeable financial sector?).

 

If I am correct in that assumption, the rest of the country must be on a relative par, but I would much prefer to see a more balanced economy led by value adding industries and by the technical expertise you mentioned above. 

 

When you say 50% of UK energy is imported, I am pretty certain that most, if not all of that power goes to England. This report discusses the Scotland-England electricity transfer (albeit for Q1 2016 and Q1 2017) but it seems that during this time, Scotland mostly supplying power to England; there were some minor periods where flow was in the other direction but this was put down to grid balancing. 

 

I honestly don't think the breakup of the UK needs to be as traumatic or onerous as some suggest. We can be adult, amicable and every bit as supportive in the future; we are all stuck on one little island so there is no point getting antagonistic; rather, I think it will improve much for Scots and others alike. 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

22 hours ago, hugh mckee said:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-coronavirus-death-rate-third-worst-world-2880962

 

from the Scotsman!.........oh I suppose those loonies the paint their faces blue and white will say the Scotsman is run by englshmen oe unionists or fools.

 

The latest statistics from the National Records of Scotland, which includes deaths where coronavirus is suspected but not confirmed as no test was carried out, place Scotland third worst in the world for the number of Covid-19 deaths for every million people.

With 4,000 deaths from a population of 5.454 million people, the rate of coronavirus deaths in Scotland has reached 733 for every million, behind England on 767 and Belgium on 842. The UK as a whole has the second worst record with 614 deaths for every million people.

 

Nicola Sturgeon said the 4,000 number was “far higher than any of us would wish” and that the overall downward trend in numbers “did not console all those who have lost loved ones”.

But the First Minister was criticised for other new figures which showed just 18,110 care home staff, around a third of Scotland’s 53,500-strong care home workforce, had been tested for the virus, despite a Scottish Government pledge three weeks ago for universal, routine testing. A total of 15,349 residents, from 35,000, had also been tested.

Ah the dear old Hootsmon.

So even while shackled to Westminster Scotland performed better than England. Also the Scottish figures include those who died and corona was suspected but not confirmed. The figures for England at the time did not include those people.

I also notice you failed to address the other points I made in my post and singled out corona virus figures because that was evidently the only point you thought you were on solid ground with.

 

The union is over Hugh. Get used to it.

[Nigel Garvie]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I imagine that much of the 79% the ONS refers to is heavily skewed towards London, and probably significantly concentrated in a relatively small number of wealth creators. (As an aside, if Scotland were to rejoin the EU, I wonder how many would seek to establish offices in Edinburgh, which already has a sizeable financial sector?).

 

 

snip

 

What should be really worrying to everyone - Pro Brexit or anti, pro Scottish Independence or anti - is what we all stand to lose. We depend on tax income to support our local and national government services, all of us. Because of Brexiteer's ideological obsession with a one sided Brexit that suits the UK only, they are likely to come away from the negotiating table with nothing. The EU leaders are already irritated beyond measure with the UK's childish posturing, why would they do a deal with our financial sector. They are not stupid, they can do 95% of this stuff themselves. 

     This means a really huge financial loss for London/UK plc, and the massive lost tax revenue will hurt everyone in the country. 

 

     I hope indeed that Edinburgh could benefit eventually, but meanwhile we will have to get on without our share of this revenue. It is certainly a good lesson to learn for all, that the UK economy is un-balanced and depends far too much on one source of income. If someone had put a stake through the heart of the wicked witch in the 80s, we might have avoided destroying a large part of our manufacturing industry.  

[hugh mckee]

just 2 Scots having a chat about independence.

 

I fear for my country, the country I will live out most of the rest of my days here and not Thailand like some faraway nationalists on here, maybe to have such a strong opinion on Scottish independence it's a good idea that you actually live here and take the independence gamble with the rest of us Scots, to have such a strong view and rarely ever even visit the country let alone live in it is highly hypocritical....just sayin' and if the shoe fits?

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee

[RuamRudy]

40 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

just 2 Scots having a chat about independence.

 

I fear for my country, the country I will live out most of the rest of my days here and not Thailand like some faraway nationalists on here, maybe to have such a strong opinion on Scottish independence it's a good idea that you actually live here and take the independence gamble with the rest of us Scots, to have such a strong view and rarely ever even visit the country let alone live in it is highly hypocritical....just sayin' and if the shoe fits?

How do you know where any of us live?

[hugh mckee]

45 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

How do you know where any of us live?

you like to say how intelligent you are so if you read I wrote "if the shoe fits"

 

of course i don't know where anyone lives just pointing out that the consequences and the obvious gamble of Scottish Independence will be felt by those

who are actually living in the country, someone who visits scotland infrequently and spends the large majority of his life living in Thailand will not be affected

if life in Scotland were to deteriorate due to independence, the debate and the consequences are for those it affects and not some guy living his life in thailand

 

as i wrote if the shoe fits?

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, hugh mckee said:

you like to say how intelligent you are so if you read I wrote "if the shoe fits"

 

of course i don't know where anyone lives just pointing out that the consequences and the obvious gamble of Scottish Independence will be felt by those

who are actually living in the country, someone who visits scotland infrequently and spends the large majority of his life living in Thailand will not be affected

if life in Scotland were to deteriorate due to independence, the debate and the consequences are for those it affects and not some guy living his life in thailand

 

as i wrote if the shoe fits?

So, in actual fact you have no idea whatsoever about the origins, current locations, existing ties and ongoing commitments or involvement in Scotland and Scottish life for any of the people on this thread? Glad we cleared that up. 

[hugh mckee]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So, in actual fact you have no idea whatsoever about the origins, current locations, existing ties and ongoing commitments or involvement in Scotland and Scottish life for any of the people on this thread? Glad we cleared that up. 

if the shoe fits RuamRudy?

 

I don't know if it's you? but methinks you doth protest too much ????

[7by7]

16 hours ago, hugh mckee said:

16 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Did you write all that yourself, Hugh, mate? 

no there's this thing called "copy and paste" it's amazing, I did all that in about 2 seconds

Have you read the forum rules, which you agreed to abide by when you joined?

 

Quote

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

 

OK, many of us do post a bit more than three sentences; but we do also post a link to acknowledge our source!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, hugh mckee said:

<snip>

to have such a strong view and rarely ever even visit the country let alone live in it is highly hypocritical....just sayin' and if the shoe fits?

The most vocal supporters of Brexit here live in Thailand.

 

Do you consider them to be hypocrites, too?

 

Just asking.

[hugh mckee]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The most vocal supporters of Brexit here live in Thailand.

 

Do you consider them to be hypocrites, too?

 

Just asking.

yes I do, to form an opinion based on the £ to baht rate is not what Brexit is about, there's a lot more to brexit than that and maybe you'd have to spend some time in the UK to realise that!

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee

[hugh mckee]

Just now, hugh mckee said:

yes I do, to form an opinion based on the £ to baht rate is not what Brexit is about, there's a lot more to brexit than that and maybe you'd have to spend some time in the UK to realise that!

 

[hugh mckee]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Have you read the forum rules, which you agreed to abide by when you joined?

 

you know what you can do with your forum, it's full of keyboard know it all's like you with 5 figure posts and too much to say about everything and anything

 

is that what you came to Thailand for to spend all day on this? get a life

 

there's no getting through to ultra left wing loonies and a waste of time trying

Edited August 16, 2020 by hugh mckee